'Straight' vs. tapered back panel
Moderators: Indiana Jeff, Mike, Indydawg
'Straight' vs. tapered back panel
I just noticed this picture from MN Jones's roadtrip thread (hope you don't mind me using the pic MN! ) :
<img src=http://www.minnesotajones.com/EC-17.jpg>
Compared to:
<img src=http://www.indygear.com/gear/images/Fs_vs_Wested1.jpg>
(FS left, Wested right)
The back panel looks very tapered on the original jacket - much more so than current jackets pictured. The shape looks more \/ than [ ].
The bottom of the back panel looks to be MUCH narrower than the top, probably providing a much snugger fit.
Is this just an illusion created by the display in the picture?
<img src=http://www.minnesotajones.com/EC-17.jpg>
Compared to:
<img src=http://www.indygear.com/gear/images/Fs_vs_Wested1.jpg>
(FS left, Wested right)
The back panel looks very tapered on the original jacket - much more so than current jackets pictured. The shape looks more \/ than [ ].
The bottom of the back panel looks to be MUCH narrower than the top, probably providing a much snugger fit.
Is this just an illusion created by the display in the picture?
No, you're right. The FS Expo has a tapered back panel, while on Westeds the back panel is square, unless requested to be different (which is why I just love Wested: there's almost nothing you can't change, and it won't cost you several hundred bucks).Is this just an illusion created by the display in the picture?
Regards,
Marc
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Good eyes, Flash.
You can make it out on the left side top as well.
It looks to be an inch in from the edge of the pleat. The distressing of the jacket has done us a favour here and clearly shown the depth of the pleat.
This suggests to me that the LC jacket had action pleats no deeper than 1", and a very tapered back panel going down to a narrow waist. We already know the jackets were made from very stiff, thick lambskin. Together, these factors would explain the lack of movement in the action pleats in LC.
You can make it out on the left side top as well.
It looks to be an inch in from the edge of the pleat. The distressing of the jacket has done us a favour here and clearly shown the depth of the pleat.
This suggests to me that the LC jacket had action pleats no deeper than 1", and a very tapered back panel going down to a narrow waist. We already know the jackets were made from very stiff, thick lambskin. Together, these factors would explain the lack of movement in the action pleats in LC.
Here are a few stills to reinforce this theory, from theraider.net:
<img src=http://www.theraider.net/films/crusade/ ... ns/c13.jpg>
<img src=http://www.theraider.net/films/crusade/ ... ns/c69.jpg>
<img src=http://www.theraider.net/films/crusade/ ... ns/c60.jpg>
Very little action pleat...erm...action at all in the above shots.
It makes sense to me that. as the jackets in LC were made from scratch to a new pattern, the movement of the A.P's might be limited - it must have been a bind for the wardrobe dept. people to keep readjusting them between takes in the other movies.
BTW - I am an action pleat fan, but I now believe the A.P's in LC were very minimal indeed. Perhaps Peter could help us out here when he's next around?
<img src=http://www.theraider.net/films/crusade/ ... ns/c13.jpg>
<img src=http://www.theraider.net/films/crusade/ ... ns/c69.jpg>
<img src=http://www.theraider.net/films/crusade/ ... ns/c60.jpg>
Very little action pleat...erm...action at all in the above shots.
It makes sense to me that. as the jackets in LC were made from scratch to a new pattern, the movement of the A.P's might be limited - it must have been a bind for the wardrobe dept. people to keep readjusting them between takes in the other movies.
BTW - I am an action pleat fan, but I now believe the A.P's in LC were very minimal indeed. Perhaps Peter could help us out here when he's next around?
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Thank you for your pics....its great to see the BACK of the Last Crusade jacket on display, lol,.....
However, to me this Last Crusade jacket looks smaller than the Last Crusade jacket that is on display at the Smithsonian....and it looks like the back of the Temple of Doom jacket that Chris King wore on MK's web-site at www.regular-guy.com....But, perhaps its just me....
Thank you for posting!
Captain D
However, to me this Last Crusade jacket looks smaller than the Last Crusade jacket that is on display at the Smithsonian....and it looks like the back of the Temple of Doom jacket that Chris King wore on MK's web-site at www.regular-guy.com....But, perhaps its just me....
Thank you for posting!
Captain D
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I can confirm with certainty that the jacket at the Museum of Science and Industry is indeed a LC Jacket - it has the snap buttons on the storm flap, it's distressed as all get out (including tears even) and the right coat pocket appears it's been stretched out a bit (Grail Diary anyone?).
And I don't mind people posting my pictures here, that's what they're for!
Here's the two jackets on display (the Chicago jacket is first, and then the Smithsonian one...)
And I don't mind people posting my pictures here, that's what they're for!
Here's the two jackets on display (the Chicago jacket is first, and then the Smithsonian one...)
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As an act of self-sacrifice and philanthropy, I'm prepared to swap my brand new Wested for that old, battered rag they have on show.Rixter wrote:Geez, you think they could display a brand new jacket for such a prestigious display as in the Museum of Science and Industry. Maybe someone could sneak in there over night and apply some globs of Pecards to it, maybe a moderator familiar with using Pecards.
I think I'll email them right now with that big-hearted offer.
Thanks _ - was the jacket which you examined a Raiders or a LC jacket?
My theory is that the jackets for the third film were cut quite differently, as I understand the original patterns had been misplaced at the time. This would account for the increased taper to the back hem, the almost non-existent action pleats (see above) (plus the larger collar and pockets, press-stud fasteners and so on which we know about already).
My theory is that the jackets for the third film were cut quite differently, as I understand the original patterns had been misplaced at the time. This would account for the increased taper to the back hem, the almost non-existent action pleats (see above) (plus the larger collar and pockets, press-stud fasteners and so on which we know about already).
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_ thanks for that very fascinating history lesson. It explains a lot, IMO.
What I would be most interested to learn now are the differences between the patterns reproduced from the Keppler prototype and the final patterns for the LC jackets, which presumably incorporated extra input from Ford and the filmmakers?
Ford was a little older, and certainly must have been ‘measured-up’ over again for LC. What tweaks were made at that time to the Keppler prototype pattern and how, if at all, do these changes reflect in the LC jackets which are available today?
What I would be most interested to learn now are the differences between the patterns reproduced from the Keppler prototype and the final patterns for the LC jackets, which presumably incorporated extra input from Ford and the filmmakers?
Ford was a little older, and certainly must have been ‘measured-up’ over again for LC. What tweaks were made at that time to the Keppler prototype pattern and how, if at all, do these changes reflect in the LC jackets which are available today?
That's an interesting one. If they were trying to recreate the Raiders jacket, the inclusion of the top press stud particularly was such an obvious deviation from the original jacket that it must have been deliberate, and it must have served some purpose.Who can say why they put a press-stud on the jacket...
Running the movie through in my mind, I can't think what that purpose was....
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The only time in L.C. that Indy had his jacket zipped up, that I can think of, would be escaping from the German zepplin....all the way to where Henry Sr. says, "these people are trying to kill us!" Then Indy says, "I know dad!" I'll have to check on the DVD to see if he has it snapped on the lower button or not.....Also, on the Young Indy episode (The Mystery of the Blues) Indy also has his L.C. jacket zipped up, but I can't remember seeing if he used the lower press-stud or not on it......
Kind Regards,
Captain D
Kind Regards,
Captain D
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I was speaking to Peter yesterday and heard the about the James Dean jacket for the first time. Basically they took the james jean jacket, took the top breast pocket off, added A2 pockets and extened the action pleats at the back and that was how the Indy jacket we know and love came into existence. The thing which really impressed me was that this all happened within the space of a week - they saw the jacket, got Peter to make it, took it to Ford to try on, made tweakings and adjustments and then made an initial 10 more for the film all in the space of a week! What a feat!
Ken
Ken
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Flash Gordon,
You make a very interesting observation. It looks almost as though the back panel on the Wested in Chicago was taken in on either side, approximately 1 inch from the end of the action pleat. By taken in I mean as anyone would have done to a shirt that blouses out too much in the back and provides a more fitted look and feel.
So could this be the answer to the tapered look we all seek? Just have your Wested's taken in to provide that V look. Thoughts anyone?
You make a very interesting observation. It looks almost as though the back panel on the Wested in Chicago was taken in on either side, approximately 1 inch from the end of the action pleat. By taken in I mean as anyone would have done to a shirt that blouses out too much in the back and provides a more fitted look and feel.
So could this be the answer to the tapered look we all seek? Just have your Wested's taken in to provide that V look. Thoughts anyone?
Actually, I remember it being the opposite. Big collars were popular in the late 70s, but by the late 80s, wasn't the trend more toward skinny 'Blues Brothers' ties, suits with narrow lapels, and polo shirts with tiny collars? My suit from high school had such tiny lapels, it looked like one of those sack suits from the fifties._ wrote:remember EVERYTHING in the late 1980's had big collars!
An irrelevant point, I realize; I just wonder if I am remembering it wrong.
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By the time the 80's really rolled around, there was a throwback to design inspired by the 1950's. Just look at Pee Wee's Playhouse. (Indiana Jones and the Playhouse of Doom? ) It seems as though things go retro for whatever was 20 to 30 year prior, which explains the resurgence in 60's, 70's, and now 80's fashion.
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I always assumed there was a little taper to the current back panel - my point is the taper on the pictured LC jacket looks much more extreme (plus without action pleats as we know them).Strange, my Wested DOES have a tapered back panel. After all this discussion, I just assumed mine was square.
It It looks as though the back panel on the LC jacket was taken in on either side, around 1 inch from the end of the action pleat, for a more 'fitted' look.
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Flathead, I believe nothing came between Brooke and her Calvins.FLATHEAD wrote:Speaking of the 80's, just remember, nothing comes between Brooke
and her Jordaches...
I fell in love with the way those pants fit... every curve...... of.....Oh baby...
Flathead
That is a very interesting tidbit. I hadn't heard that before.Indiana Ken wrote:I was speaking to Peter yesterday and heard the about the James Dean jacket for the first time. Basically they took the james jean jacket, took the top breast pocket off, added A2 pockets and extened the action pleats at the back and that was how the Indy jacket we know and love came into existence. The thing which really impressed me was that this all happened within the space of a week - they saw the jacket, got Peter to make it, took it to Ford to try on, made tweakings and adjustments and then made an initial 10 more for the film all in the space of a week! What a feat!
Ken
I.J.
I hope this can be incorporated into the main site during the revamp - it's a little gem of design information!I was speaking to Peter yesterday and heard the about the James Dean jacket for the first time. Basically they took the james jean jacket, took the top breast pocket off, added A2 pockets and extened the action pleats at the back and that was how the Indy jacket we know and love came into existence. The thing which really impressed me was that this all happened within the space of a week - they saw the jacket, got Peter to make it, took it to Ford to try on, made tweakings and adjustments and then made an initial 10 more for the film all in the space of a week! What a feat!
Ken
Here's a comparison shot between the Wested and a James Dean Jacket.
<img src=http://uk.msnusers.com/_Secure/0VQCz*64 ... 4133030105>
<img src=http://uk.msnusers.com/_Secure/0VQCz*64 ... 4133030105>
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