Young Indy whip in LC

Indiana Charles · Post by **Indiana Charles** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:50 am

I know I read something about this on another thread but I can't find it now. What can you guys tell me about the whip in this picture, like who made it, were to find it, how much etc. Thanks.

Redbeard · Post by **Redbeard** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:02 am

To me it looks like a Morgan in different colors and without a wrist loop...

Regards,
Red

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:13 am

Supposedly Swayne, Adney and Brigg's made that bullwhip for the film. That’s the official word going around but I don’t think that’s the case at all. I have always been a firm believer that it is just a 6 foot 12plait David Morgan bullwhip that the prop department dyed black and then painted the handle orange and cut off the wrist loop to give it a different look for that scene. There is another photo of this whip in the Lucas film Archives book and in the bullwhip section of IndyGear that shows the same whip with the dye job fading and the paint wearing away on a natural tan bullwhip that has all the characteristics of one of David’s whips.

I’ve seen a few replicas of this exact whip pop up from time to time but I don’t know of any specific whip maker making them just like the one in the picture. I always though it was a neat looking bullwhip thought. One of the Indygear whipmakers might be able to chime in and offer you some options.

Dan

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:51 am

There was once a post where a guy (I think it was the German) said he got a whip from this female dominatrix site, but the post is gone.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:34 am

But it even says on Morgan's site that the whip was by SA&B - although I too find that a little hard to believe. Very curious.

ecwhips · Post by **ecwhips** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:12 am

I've been wanting to make a replica of that whip for a while. After I finish up the few orders I have I'm going to make that my next project.

Jim

winrichwhips · Post by **winrichwhips** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:36 am

Jim,

Are you going to make the whip in black and then paint the handle? Or are you going cut the handle out of a red kangaroo hide?

I'd say if the whole thing was dyed black, and then the handle painted, that I'd give that a try and see how it goes. If you used black kangaroo I think it would almost be too black. In the pic that whip looks black/grey. I don't know where you can buy it, but I've heard of paint that is made specifically for leather, or leather shoes. I know it's used on white whips sometimes.

The dye job would probably work best if you could get some veg-tanned kangaroo that wasn't drum stuffed.

Maybe I should try one of these, too.

-Adam, www.winrichwhips.com

ecwhips · Post by **ecwhips** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:55 pm

Adam,

My first thought was to just use black roohide and paint the handle, but you're probably right as it would be too black, and the handle would come out like a blood red. I've seen a couple of whipmakers who made a copy of that whip over the years and it never quite looks right. That said, I'll probably make it in natural and color it from there.

Jim

racerx · Post by **racerx** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:33 pm

Hmm, I remember seeing a replica of that whip from time to time on ebay to, one was done by Darrell Brite, it was made from cowhide in 12 plait.

But from the looks of it, as that time , it didn't look dyed at all, it had a redish orangish handle an the thong was in black as stated.

I always thought he just split down the strands and re-plaited them a different color over the first black strands on the handle.

Although dying does sound a triffle bit easier

.

Jim J.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:36 pm

Looking at the replica book pic, the whole thing was painted. a lot of the black is coming off and it looks like a pretty natural brown under it. The red on the handel is also coming of but not as bad as the black. Funny, it's under the Raiders section as "Indy's whip prop".

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:06 pm

I don’t think the whip was painted black, some leathers just don’t take dye very well. I’ve seen other old whips that had been dyed black like that, and they get a very similar faded splotchy worn look after a while with the original color showing though.

About a year ago Elstreet Studios auctioned off a bullwhip that they claimed was used in the train car scene of the Last Crusade, The auction said that 2 whips where used in that scene, A 6 ft and an 8ft bullwhip and stated that the 8ft bullwhip (the one being auctioned) was taken from the wall in the scene and the 6ft was the one used in the actual action sequence. The photographs that Elstreet supplied along with their auction showed a very different looking whip though. It had the same color pattern, that black and orange, but didn’t resemble a Morgan whip or the one in the screen capture above. I have a feeling the 8-foot whip they auctioned off was the whip supplied by Swayne, Adney and Brigg's, but that that whip never actually appeared on film.

Dan

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:43 am

THe whip in the screen grab looks a little short for a 8ft. Perhaps there really was a 8ft from Swane - but ti proved too long for the scene and so they painted up one of the short Morgans to resemble it.

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:49 am

THe whip in the screen grab looks a little short for a 8ft. Perhaps there really was a 8ft from Swane - but ti proved too long for the scene and so they painted up one of the short Morgans to resemble it.

Those where my thoughts too. That whip in the screen grab is almost certinly a 6 foot bullwhip.

Btw, Looking forward too seeing what the whipmakers here come up with, with their version of this bullwhip

Dan

Indiana Charles · Post by **Indiana Charles** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:39 pm

I e-mailed Swaine Adeney Brigg yesterday about the whip and this is what they had to say:

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your email.
We did make the whip used in the film.
Unfortunately we no longer make whips of this type.

Kind regards,

Trevor Allen

So, who wants to tackle a replica?

winrichwhips · Post by **winrichwhips** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:42 am

I've always liked the whip pictured in this post, so I think right after I get back from the WWAC convention in Claremore I'm going to tackle making one. My plan is to first paint the handle, and then dye the rest of the whip.

Also, I'll paint the handle before putting on the knots. That should eliminate the problem of paint going where I don't want it to.

I've got a question, what color paint should I use for the handle? I was thinking of using 'candy apple red' spray paint, which i think will closely match the color of the handle in the pic. Does anyone have any better suggestions?

I've actuall spray-painted whips before. While the spray pain comes off the end of a whip right away, i think it should be fairly durable on the handle, especially if I use several very light coats.

-Adam, www.winrichwhips.com

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:39 am

Is this normal spraypaint you're talking about? You might try that leather spray paint. Nu-life or something like that. It's for coloring shoes, though I don't know if it would work any better than normal paint.

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:46 am

You know, if I had a dollar for every time I heard some one claim they made something used in one of the Indy films!

Swaine Adeney Brigg’s may have made a bullwhip for the film, but I seriously don’t believe they made that bullwhip. Neither David Morgan or any one form Swaine Adeney Brigg’s would have been on set to see what the prop guys put in there. I trust my eyes more then I do what they say happened some 16 years ago.

Adam, I’d probably go with a pumpkin orange rather then candy apple red on a black whip. I think that would be more representative to the bullwhip used in that scene. If it was bullwhip I was buying though, I’d prefer the hide was tannery dyed black rather then hand dyed or rubbed. I can understand not wanting to use a really nice black roo hide on an experimental whip, but It’s just been my experience that leather dyed after the fact releases too much dye over time. I imagine a shellac would help seal it in but it’s just too messy in the long run for my tastes. Any way can’t wait to see what you come up with.

Dan

Bernardodc · Post by **Bernardodc** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:33 pm

Dan,

I remember I read somewhere that the whip was indeed supplied by Swayne, Adney and Brigg's , BUT they OUTSOURCED whips from David Morgan!

Unfortunately I can't recall exactly where I read that...

Bernardo

midwestwhips · Post by **midwestwhips** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:48 pm

BullWhipBorton wrote:You know, if I had a dollar for every time I heard some one claim they made something used in one of the Indy films!
Dan

Hey Dan,

Here is another dollar for ya'! Just last night I was told someone was trying to contact me from a group on yahoo. So I went to check it out, and they said "Was told that the whip was made by whip maker Paul Noland. Who also made the Indiana jones whip's. My question is does anybody have any contact info for Paul Noland?", HA! I was

, boy did I get a kick outta that!

And then I read the next post that was a reply to him, and it said, "Actually, I believe David Morgan supplied the whips for the Indy Jones movies. Now, Paul may have been the actual braider if he was
apprenticed to David at that time."

Man, I was laughing so hard. I clarified it, but it is curious as to how either of those "rumors" were started, I do wonder.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

midwestwhips · Post by **midwestwhips** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:53 pm

Bernardodc wrote:Dan,

I remember I read somewhere that the whip was indeed supplied by Swayne, Adney and Brigg's , BUT they OUTSOURCED whips from David Morgan!

Unfortunately I can't recall exactly where I read that...

Bernardo

Bernardo,

I think that has to be the most logical explination for this whip. It would cover the reason why it looks so much like a morgan. And it reminds me of how some people think that Mark Allen actually makes the whips he sells, I've heard that one a few times.

I'd vote for this theory being the most accurate.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:49 pm

midwestwhips wrote: So I went to check it out, and they said "Was told that the whip was made by whip maker Paul Noland. Who also made the Indiana jones whip's. My question is does anybody have any contact info for Paul Noland?", HA! I was , boy did I get a kick outta that!

And then I read the next post that was a reply to him, and it said, "Actually, I believe David Morgan supplied the whips for the Indy Jones movies. Now, Paul may have been the actual braider if he was
apprenticed to David at that time."

Hahah! Your famous! Or infamous?

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:30 pm

Bernardo, I had heard that too. It’s an idea that has batted around both here at Club Obi Wan and at the old Indy fan website in the past. It could very well be the case; unfortunately we haven’t heard anything official. David keeps records of his orders; maybe you could mention that bullwhip and see if he was ever contacted by someone at Swayne, Adney and Brigg's next time you talk to him.

Paul, They probably just got confused, it happens, Especially as we get older. See I think David Morgan was the one who made the stockwhips for “The Rundown” with the Rock, he was probably still apprentice to Paul Noland though at the time.

Ok, I had a bit of a laugh when I read that, I have heard some pretty funny stuff over the years, that was up there amongst the best of them.

Dan

BTW, Here is a photo I had of the 8 ft bullwhip Elstreet Studios auctioned off claiming to be used in train car scene.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:36 pm

Ooh nasty looking thing that!

From David morgan's website:

What whips were used in the Indiana Jones movies?
We supplied over 30 bullwhips of the 451 series for the Indiana Jones movies. These ranged in length from 6 feet to 16 feet. The standard length carried in the movies was the No. 455 10 ft. bullwhip. The other lengths were used in special stunts. All were in the natural tan color.

In addition to our whips, a child's whip made by Swayne, Adney and Brigg's was used in a scene from Indiana Jones' youth.

Why would they write that if the whips were sourced from them?

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:21 pm

Whiskeyman, I wondered about that, the information on David’s site does seem to contradict that theory. It was 16+ years ago though and there has often been a lot of confusion about who made what for who regarding the Indy films. Sometimes I wonder if there was added confusion with a swivel handled bullwhip used in a scene in an episode Young Indiana Jones Chronicles.

Dan

racerx · Post by **racerx** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:59 pm

Hey gang,
well I just finished an all black zorro style bullwhip, 12 plait and 9 feet long.

I think I'm going to try re-braiding over the handle and adding new knots to see how that would do as to getting the young indy look,

.

Although , the hide I have is a light brown, but it is rather thin and somewhat strong, something like 2oz's in weight I believe.

Here's a picture of the black whip I finished.

ATb
Jim J.

http://www.indygearpic.zoomshare.com/al ... /image.jpg

ecwhips · Post by **ecwhips** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:11 pm

racerx wrote:Hey gang,
well I just finished an all black zorro style bullwhip, 12 plait and 9 feet long.

I think I'm going to try re-braiding over the handle and adding new knots to see how that would do as to getting the young indy look, .

Although , the hide I have is a light brown, but it is rather thin and somewhat strong, something like 2oz's in weight I believe.

Here's a picture of the black whip I finished.

ATb
Jim J.

http://www.indygearpic.zoomshare.com/al ... /image.jpg

#### Jim, look at that whip! You've gotten really good since the last pics you sent me. Nice work!

Jim

racerx · Post by **racerx** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:24 am

Thanks Jim,
I keep trying to tweak the finished product,

by trying something different, also concentraiting on getting a tighter plait, now to get a neater with the knots, I still remember
the advice you gave me in the past and I've been utilizing it, along with getting one of those little stone grave markers, it sure does work swell for rolling the whip.

ATB

Jim J.

Bernardodc · Post by **Bernardodc** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:46 pm

Hey Jim,

Great looking whip! I haven't seen many whips from you, but that one surely looks nice. It would be great to see more pics of it.

I just got a few black hides from the tannery, (in the same kip leather I use) and they look pretty nice. I'm going to make Zorro whip with that.

BTW, thanks to your Avatar, I found what "RacerX" means! You are "El corredor enmascarado"

Regards,

Bernardo

racerx · Post by **racerx** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:32 am

Hey there Bernardo,

As of late, I haven't been making many whips,(been busy with other things) this particular one I made for myself, but more than likely I'll probley end up giveing it away to either a new whipcracker or relative,
I have to many whips , or so my wife says,

.

I am currently in the process of making a pair of 6 foot 12 plait whips though.

yeah , I've always liked that ''speedracer'' cartoon show, along with having a thing for mucle cars .

my wife however, hates that cartoon show, because of how they talk fast an all I supose, so naturally I talk fast like that to her now and then

.

the Maytag washing machines have nothing on me for aggitation

.

Here's another picture.

http://s80.photobucket.com/albums/j170/ ... ewview.jpg

Looking forward to seeing your Zorro whip when finished Bernardo.

Cheers.

Jim J.

Bernardodc · Post by **Bernardodc** » Wed May 24, 2006 10:43 am

Dan and all,

I thought I'd resurrect this tread since I called Mr. Morgan last week and asked him about this particular "young Indy" whip.

He said that all he knows is that Swayne, Adney and Brigg's CLAIMED they made the whip used in that scene. I asked about the posibility that he sold the whip to them, and he said "We have never sold any whips to them".

He also mention he visited their shop and he found it wasn't properly set up for making whips in quantity. He said their whips were different from his whips, although he did not say exactly how different they were.

Finally, I suggested him the posibility that the props department may have simply died in black one of his whips, since that whip looks exactly like one of his whips, and he said: "I don't know. It's possible. I can't help you with that. All I know is that Swayne, Adney and Brigg's claimed they made whip".

It seems to me Mr. Morgan hansn't even seen the movie, much less payed attention to the whip displayed there. Apparently he doesn't care too much about these issues.

Anyway, I thought that info might be of interest to Indy Gear fans.

Regards,

Bernardo

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Wed May 24, 2006 12:13 pm

"Paul Noland" made the whips for Raiders? Wow! That would make him a brilliant prodigy considering, he was what? 2 or 3 at the time?

Speaking of, as far as spray painting whips. Paul, do you have any idea what kind of paint they used on the whips you made for the Rundown? They did some kind of tiger stripe/snake pattern on them.

I thought it looked cool, but the whole time I was thinking, "#1, that stuff isn't going to stick to that for very long, and #2, while it is there, all that stuff leeching into the leather has GOT to be bad!" But I'm not a craftsperson, so what the hay do I know?

I saw one of the steel "Monkeyhead" handles they put on 'em on eBay a few months back. No whip attached though, (think they killed them.) Considered picking it up and sending it to you to do a whip for it, (and get a letter from you and Gery saying you supplied the whip equipment for the movie.) Didn't have the spare cash though, but I don't think it sold.

I love seeing the "Whips by Mark Allen" posts. I think that Mark is in the same boat as me, and couldn't get two strips of leather to stick together using hot glue, baling twine and duct tape!

racerx wrote:I am currently in the process of making a pair of 6 foot 12 plait whips though.

Yes he is, and here's a picture of one. ;-)

If it looks suspiciously like this pic I posted of my Jacka whip a few months ago:

There's a reason for that. Jim is making a couple stunt whips for our upcoming action flick, "Cliffhanger." For some of the stuff we want to do, I needed really rugged, rough whips that could stand up to considerable abuse to keep our hero props, ($350 Jacka whips from personal collections,) from being utterly destroyed by the action we have planned.

Want to say publicly, Jim: Superb job! The likeness is uncanny. We'll be able to cut back and forth between the "Hero Props" and "Stunt Props" with NO problems. Heck, I'm worried that I won't be able to tell them apart standing right next to them!!! ;-)

All the best,

-Dan

racerx · Post by **racerx** » Wed May 24, 2006 2:25 pm

Why thank you Dan, I'm glad I could be of some help to you guys, anytime.

Speaking of which, I'm just now on the knots for the second one, just finshed attaching the wrist loop.

I saw one of the steel "Monkeyhead" handles they put on 'em on eBay a few months back. No whip attached though, (think they killed them.) Considered picking it up and sending it to you to do a whip for it, (and get a letter from you and Gery saying you supplied the whip equipment for the movie.) Didn't have the spare cash though, but I don't think it sold.

That would so cool if Paul N could mabey get back one of the whips he did for ''the Rundown'' with the modified handle, where the knife springs out

.

Bernardo, that is one super fine looking young indy whip that you made,
well done, I can't wait to see your Zorro whip.

High Regards.

Jim J.

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Thu May 25, 2006 12:17 am

Bernardo, Thanks for the update. Unfortunately that is kind of the impression I got as well from David.

From my understanding Swayne, Adney and Brigg's where set up to make buggy whip, crops and hunting whips more so then finely plaited Aussie American style bullwhips like the type use in the train car scene. Every now and then I see Swayne, Adney and Brigg's hunting whips pop up for sale, they are differnt style, but usually nice looking whips, eventually I’d like to pick one up for my own collection.

Regards

Dan

midwestwhips · Post by **midwestwhips** » Thu May 25, 2006 7:06 am

thefish wrote:"Paul Noland" made the whips for Raiders? Wow! That would make him a brilliant prodigy considering, he was what? 2 or 3 at the time?

Speaking of, as far as spray painting whips. Paul, do you have any idea what kind of paint they used on the whips you made for the Rundown? They did some kind of tiger stripe/snake pattern on them.

I thought it looked cool, but the whole time I was thinking, "#1, that stuff isn't going to stick to that for very long, and #2, while it is there, all that stuff leeching into the leather has GOT to be bad!" But I'm not a craftsperson, so what the hay do I know?

I saw one of the steel "Monkeyhead" handles they put on 'em on eBay a few months back. No whip attached though, (think they killed them.) Considered picking it up and sending it to you to do a whip for it, (and get a letter from you and Gery saying you supplied the whip equipment for the movie.) Didn't have the spare cash though, but I don't think it sold.

-Dan

Hi Dan,

While I don't like dating myself, I have to admit that I don't think I was even born yet when Raiders came out. But I got a kick out of hearing someone say that I apprenticed David Morgan at the time, or even at all. I couldn't believe it! I never thought I'd ever see that written!

Well I can say that I there was no spray paint used on the whips in the movie "The Rundown". The whips with the "Tiger Stripe" pattern on them in the movie were made by Terry Jacka. The whips that I made for the movie were in the final fight scene with Dwane "the rock" Johnson.

I wish I would have seen the Rundown whip handle on ebay! I would have bought one and attatched a whip to it. I still have the pieces all cut out and prepared for one more rundown whip. I had cut out two extra at the time incase they needed one or two more on short notice. one of the extra's I cut out I ended up makeing for a friend of mine, as she wanted a whip from me that was exactly the same as the whips I made for the movie, and out of the same batch of hides I used as well. The whip she has is still one of my favorites. Let me know if they ever put that back up, or if there is a picture of it somewhere.

How long ago was that when it was up on ebay?

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

midwestwhips · Post by **midwestwhips** » Thu May 25, 2006 9:35 pm

Hey everybody,

Chris asked me to post this for him in this thread.

"Wow.
I've been out of the loop for quite some time and a whole lot of cool
stuff has happened on this forum.
It took me quite a while to shuffle through it all.
Anyway. I thought I would ask Paul to post this photo of some of my
whips. Mainly because of all the discussion regarding the Young Indy
Whip. This photo shows a Joe Strain 6ft Indy Style whip which was
originally saddle tan I think. I've had this whip for 11 or 12 years
and re-dyed it so long ago that I don't remember for sure. The only
differences are that it does have a wrist loop and instead of being
black, it's really a dark dark brown. You can see it in the bottom left
hand corner.
I masked off the dark brown and used the "Nu-Vue" leather spray dye for
the red. This whole process worked really well.
I thought about cutting the wrist loop off but didn't.

The other whips are as follows, starting in the upper left and moving
to the right.

Top Row.
• Matched pair of Joe Strain, 6ft LoneStar Whips
• David Morgan 10 ft (around 15 years old - The first whip I got.)
• Joe Strain, 8ft Indy Style (notice the handle treatment is the same
as the young indy whip, only I left it the original color of the whip
• Terry Jacka 8 ft.
• Joe Strain 7 ft stockwhip

Bottom Row
• 7ft R.M. Williams stockwhip
• Joe Strain 6ft Indy Whip - Young Indy dye job
• Mike Murphy 5.5 ft matched pair stockwhips
• Sy Davey 7 ft stockwhip
• Mike Murphy 5ft, 4 plait whips (sorry they are kinda out of the
photo.)

All the best,
Chris Camp"

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Fri May 26, 2006 1:44 am

Hey Chris, Thanks for posting, that’s Great collection of whips. That young Indy style looks like it did turn out pretty good, would love to see a close up of it. So the "Nu-Vue" leather spray dye for the red worked well, did you have to seal it with anything?

BTW, Awesome Morgan, great color.

Dan

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Fri May 26, 2006 11:21 am

Paul:

That "Rundown" handle was on eBay a while back. Several months. I KNOW I sent you a link, figuring you'd want to at least have a look. I was surprised when I didn't hear back.

But then, with the way my ISP has been "losing" e-mail messages both sent and received, I'm not too surprised anymore.

Here's the picture from the auction, (I saved it, as I have friends who are good metalworkers.)

The handle was stainless steel pipe that they turned down somewhat on a lathe. I believe the finger rings, the two finger divits and the baboon head pommel were done out of epoxy resin and painted silver to match the rest of the handle.

I seem to remember that it never sold. I'll see if I can contact the seller, (pretty good sized prop house,) and see what the status on the item is.

Man! I've hijacked a thread! We now return you to the regularly scheduled Young Indy Whip Discussion

-Dan