Gibson & Barnes Expedition: Was This a Good Buy?

[drewgarcia618]

Today I bought a 44T Expedition on eBay… there were only two pictures on the listing. I asked the seller for a few more and they sent a few more. I have no clue about the hide, the lining does look really good, and I’m excited to get my hands on it after reading nothing but great things about G&B.

Anyone here with a 44 able to tell me the measurements?

Pics: https://imgur.com/a/bL16a2A

[Michaelson]

Any G&B Expo acquisition is a great buy, depending on how much you paid.
Congratulations!
You need to determine if it is an off the rack or made to measure. They sold both versions.
The ‘T’ had a longer body than the standard by about 2” or so.

Regards! Michaelson

[Hollowpond]

Looks like goat. If so that thing is a TANK. Assuming the fit is what you want, that is a fantastic buy!

[drewgarcia618]

Any G&B Expo acquisition is a great buy, depending on how much you paid.
Congratulations!
You need to determine if it is an off the rack or made to measure. They sold both versions.
The ‘T’ had a longer body than the standard by about 2” or so.

Regards! Michaelson

Interesting, the seller really didn’t know much about it. They had a basic “nice leather bomber jacket” description. No measurements or anything, so it is a gamble. As someone who is pretty tall, I’m hoping it fits well. Sleeves will be my main concern. I’m hoping that since G&B made them to milspec it’ll be fine. Back in my uniform days I wore large-long tops and bottoms.

Looks like goat. If so that thing is a TANK. Assuming the fit is what you want, that is a fantastic buy!

I thought goat as well, but wasn’t sure. I’m hoping so, because I’m aware of the legendary status their goat has. For less than $200, I think it’s worth the try. If I don’t like it, I’ll either throw it on the bazar or eBay or something!

[Indiana Jeff]

If you got it for less than $200, you got a steal!

I have a G&B goat that had been through several owners, Michaelson included, and it is my favorite Indy jacket.

I hope the sizing works out for you.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Western New York Indy]

Wow! That's a really cool find! I don't know much about these jackets, since they probably predate my Indygear journey by quite a bit. But I have heard good things about them. I've seen a few of these on Ebay, but they were always something like $900.

I hope it ends up fitting you, congratulations on a great find!

-WNY Indy

[Michaelson]

My daughter has one of the prototypes lambskins that came out of my collection, and I have one in black lambskin and another goat skin.Great jackets!

Regards! M

[drewgarcia618]

In what was probably the quickest shipment I’ve ever had from eBay, the G&B arrived today! I bought it Saturday night, seller shipped yesterday morning, arrived earlier this afternoon!

I do agree that it’s goatskin, and I can confirm the legends: they’re built like tanks. All in all the fit is good I think, I’m a bit heavier than I’d like, but it still fits well. Sleeves are just a hair shorter than I’d like, but for an OTR 44L… I couldn’t be happier.

Pictures: https://imgur.com/a/AYyjMi5

The best part? The seller didn’t check the pockets, so I got $3 and a receipt for ice cream. That makes the grand total about $185

[drewgarcia618]

Double reply to say: I’ve never seen goat be so receptive to conditioner. I used some Leather CPR (similar to Bick 4) on it and it SOAKED in. For how little this thing seems to have been worn, it was apparently very dry. Is this common with the G&B goat? Also, is there any way to determine age?

[Michaelson]

Pretty unusual for any goat, but if it will take it, feed it. As to age, not really. Dave Marshall pretty much stayed with the exact same pattern after all the prototypes were examined and checked off.

Looks great on you!

Regards! Michaelson

[Indiana Jeff]

It looks brand new and it does look great on you, you have a winner!

Check for any serial number on the tags, if you can find one (I have no idea if there is one to be found) you could try contacting G&B and see if they could determine an age.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[bearbeast]

I did not know about this maker until your post. Great looking jacket, what a nice find, congrats.

And the fit looks perfect!

Cheers,
Bear

[Hollowpond]

Yup. You got a winner there!!! Congrats and well done!

[Michaelson]

Reading over this is a bit bitter sweet for me.

Of the 6 of us who were involved in the creation of the Expedition, only 2 of us are left. A sobering thought, but I’m sure the missing 4 would smile to know the Expo’s are still out there doing their job.

Regards! Michaelson

[drewgarcia618]

Thank you all for the kind words about the fit! Honestly, I really love it and it may be my favorite jacket to date. I can layer under it comfortably, which will make for a nicer wear in the winter for sure. I can layer both of my S&J jackets (DoD in Thin Horse & ToD in Blackstone Cow) underneath it, which is quite funny. I can’t really move without fearing that I’ll pop a stitch or whole seams in one of the jackets, but it can be done!

Reading over this is a bit bitter sweet for me.

Of the 6 of us who were involved in the creation of the Expedition, only 2 of us are left. A sobering thought, but I’m sure the missing 4 would smile to know the Expo’s are still out there doing their job.

Regards! Michaelson

‪Michaelson, I have tried to piece together the history of the G&B. However, being a newer member it’s been hard to go back and get a solid grasp on it. If you (or if any other members who know) don’t mind, would you care to share some of the process and details? From what I know, it is patterned off of a screen used jacket right?‬

[Michaelson]

Well, you asked!

It was patterned from a privately owned screen used stunt jacket in a private collection in Oregon.

We had a member (T H ayes) who worked for Wizards of the Coast at the time and lived in Portland get permission to examine and measure the jacket. It took a LOT of negotiation to get access.

At the time Dave Marshall was head designer at FlightSuits (Gibson and Barnes) who was talking to Lee Keppler and myself to obtain details regarding the Raiders jacket. We had lots of observed and described details, but the supplied measurements sealed the deal.

Lee had worked with Dave before on attempting to create a solid Indy jacket line before, but didn’t get a lot of traction the first attempt. This second attempt got enough interest in it to move forward.

Michael Key (MK) was Indygear webmaster at the time, and he and Walt Rybinski (Sergei here) made multiple visits to the old G&B factory to see and discuss the development, while Lee and I fielded phone call after phone call and continued to tweak the little details that had been missed in the original measurements, such as gussets and patch pocket shape.

One prototype was even brought to the second Queen Mary Indygear summit by Dave Marshall for folks to examine.

After multiple prototypes were made in two different goatskins, cowhide, and even deer hide, the design was approved by all concerned, and the jacket was offered in ‘made to measure’ and off the rack sizing, all made to mil-spec.

David insisted that all jackets would be made tough enough to ‘hand down to your grandkids’ (unquote), and all jackets were made to the same finish specs as their military contract jackets at the time.

The whole process took about a year from first discussions to production roll out.

G&B created one off jackets from exotic hides on special order….one comes to mind of water buffalo. Throngs of members and fans made the pilgrimage to the factory to be measured and pick a hide for an Expedition to be handmade by the craftsmen there. Many many more sent their details through email or phone and did the same.

One was even gifted to Harrison Ford, and one resides in the LFL collection at the ranch. Rumor had it that it was studied for use in Crystal Skull, the final design and job went to Tony Nowak. G&B wasn’t set up to crank out film jackets with all the government contracts they had at the time, but it’s interesting to think an Expedition MIGHT have been worn by Ford with his Adventurebilt fedora in CS…….both products created by members of this community!

When Dave retired, all interest in keeping the Expedition alive by G&B’s new management ended after about a year, and they went back to strictly aviation/law enforcement gear. I don’t think they’re even doing law enforcement jackets anymore. All remaining Expeditions left in stock were sold in clearance sales, and that was that.

Heady times!

Of the original group, only MK and I are left.

Regards! Michaelson.

[drewgarcia618]

Wow, that's really cool. I don’t think I realized just how closely the community worked with Dave and G&B. As I mentioned, I love the jacket. The fit is fantastic, the color is great, and the goatskin is the best I’ve ever handled. I can really feel the quality. The milspec build—something that can be hit or miss, since modern military gear can either be top-tier or bottom-of-the-barrel garbage—really does have a robustness that’s unmatched. This thing could absolutely be passed down to the next generation, and I hope that, when I have kids, they’ll want it. I’d love to see some of those prototypes and one-offs.

I gave it a good hot water soak and started wet-forming it to my frame. The body of the jacket has stayed relatively the same, with a couple of decent wrinkles and some grain popping through. The shoulders have really started to droop, and the sleeves have creased just enough to make the arm length perfect. None of my Raiders jackets have been quite this amazing. BK and Wested made great jackets that I loved, but this one just has that X-factor that puts it a step above. Maybe it’s the USA construction, the fact it’s from a military contract holder, the history, or a combination of all of it—but I just love it.

Maybe one day, with the community’s blessing, I’ll have a maker like Johnson Leathers or 5Star reproduce it. I want to get my father an Indy jacket, and this pattern feels like the best blend of accuracy and function. Of course, I’d never do this without the y'all’s permission.

[NorthernRaider]

Thanks for sharing all that info Michaelson!
Cool to hear about all the history of these products, and awesome to see how much fan involvement has driven the creation of all these products, from this, to the FedIV, etc.
Cheers,

NR

[Michaelson]

The only prototype I am aware of still in the hands of the ‘committee’ is MK’s lambskin which is now in my eldest daughter’s possession. I gave it to her for her collection.

I’m sure no one cares if you want your jacket duplicated by another vendor. S&J does it all the time with excellent results!

Yep, and at least 2 of the 3 if us are still around after working on the Federation creation.

Just to add, what drove us back then was there were few vendors making anything for us. Most of the original vendors had completely departed from the original patterns and had no interest in revising their business plans. You were going to have to accept what ever they made, and we told us that on several occasions. Some even flatly told us they didn’t have time to waste on ‘fans’ as theirs was a ‘legitimate business’.

We found vendors who WERE interested in recreating the items we saw on screen, and after they were released, it was amazing how quickly those original vendors reversed course and attempted to reclaim that lost business.

Fortunately now you folks are living in the lap of luxury we could only dream about 20+ years so. Still, ‘we’ were able to get some rock solid items made ‘back in the day’ that still continues to impress to this day.

Regards! M

[drewgarcia618]

I figured that y'all would not mind, but I still wanted to ask. You know what they say about assuming things. 5Star has a variety of skins that I think could look really good in the pattern. Their "visky" horsehide would make for an interesting looking Indy jacket, as would any of their buffalo hides. If only G&B was interested in making them again! I'd love to buy a factory fresh Expedition, or any other Indy style jacket, with the G&B lining. I just realized yesterday that the lining is gussetted as well. Absolutely brilliant design feature.

I love that the community is so involved with vendors and that vendors are actually receptive to the community. I know that it's the jacket forum, but I am excited to see what Akubra is cooking up with the Federations...

[Holt]

wow, that brings back some nostalgia right there. Seeing one of these makes me want one!

[baddates1]

Me as well. Maybe thy can do a limited anniversary edition?

[Michaelson]

I’d be very surprised if they did. VERY surprised.

There’s no one left there that was involved, and it was such a departure from their regular business , I think they were relieved to jettison it from their catalogue.
It was extremely popular as they were made to last for generations, but the ‘made to measure’ offering was a financial drain, as they were VERY generous in their terms of allowing returns that folks were continually returning custom jackets due to the customer submitting incorrect measurements. They had to be resold in clearance and remake the returned jacket.
They refused to mix leather parts from different hides . They tried to make sure everything matched.
They also had to make sure they had the same dyed hides as they gave you the choice of vegetable or chrome tanned hides. LOTS of moving parts to make each jacket. No short cuts.
They had adopted the ‘customer is always right’ stand, and unfortunately customers ran it into the ground…..some even DEMANDING special items like extra inside pockets with zips etc free of charge. Those ‘demands’ were only honored at cost.
These were fairly time consuming to make. For example, the lining mirrors the armpit gusset (called a ‘double gusset) They had to match or the arm would bind.
Unfortunately, it took a few to completely mess it up for the majority.
G&B finally said ‘enough’ and only offered OTR sizes and standard hides….goat, lamb and cowhide. Standard sizing.

Like I said earlier, Dave Marshall retired, and shortly afterwards they said once OTR inventory was sold, they were done. There was no budging them over the years. We tried. A resounding ‘NO!’ The day of the Expedition was over. G&B went back to their primary business…..flight gear. That’s ALL they make to this day.

https://gibson-barnes.com/product-categ ... t-jackets/

Their catalog is WAY smaller than back in the day. They had all KINDS of different leather jackets. Pages of designs to choose from. No longer.

They still honor their lifetime warranty of replacing zips and snaps for the life of the jacket.

If you can find one, and it fits, add it to your collection. They’re built like tanks and won’t be seen again.

Regards! Michaelson