Help with Relic Hunter

[onhorseback]

Hello everyone! I've been reading this forum for quite some time gathering all the great info you all contribute with and, after several Westeds and a couple of S&J, I have finally pulled the trigger on the renowned Relic Hunter. I ordered a standard size rather than a custom one, and was hoping that would ease and hasten the process of what I knew beforehand would be a long wait, but to my surprise a month after ordering I received an email from Andy asking me to give my ok to their measurements, which were as following for a standard 38:

Relic Hunter size 38
--------------------
pit to pit 21.5
shoulders 19.25
back 22.5
sleeve 25

I'm 1,78 m tall (5,8") and have never had any issues ordering standard sizes. I understand different construction methods and cuts can mean differences of one or two inches even on the same pattern, so I was not too concerned with the pit, sleeve or shoulders as they seemed to roughly agree with the rest of my Indy jackets. But a back of 22.5 seems way too short. Every other Raiders jacket I've ever owned has been aproximately 26" in the back. I emailed back with my concerns regarding this and a week later I got a reply asking for pictures of me wearing my other jackets. I emailed those two weeks ago and I'm still waiting for a response, so I thought it might help if someone with a Relic Hunter in Standard 38 could give me their jacket's back measurement as well as their own height for me to get an idea of where things might be going wrong. A conversation with a week or two week delay between responses is bound to get extremely long, so if anyone can lend me a hand with this I would greatly appreciate it

[Thee]

For your height it only seems a tad short, IMO based on your height you should get a length of 23 to 23.5 inches. But alot of this depends on your porportions. With your other jackets being 26 inches in length you either have a very long torso or you prefer to wear your jackets longer. Might want to ask Deigo from S&J to see if BK's standard length would work as he knows the raiders cut well and it sounds like he knows your measurements since said you have had a couple S&Js.

[indymassilia]

Hi,For the Hero Raiders jacket,26 inches back is way to long (i'm same height as you 1.78m and 78kg),you will have a dress like,my Kelso Relic Hunter is a 44R and the back length was 24 inches,perfect back length,same as Wested Hero Rotla jacket..
In the past i ordered Wested Hero with 26,25.50 and 25 and all too longer for the back length,the best fit is for my size 44R is 24 inches back length..
The major problem was to take the heigth of the customer as important as his chest size..
Unfortunately,i'm not 38 size to help you better..

[indymassilia]

Try to ask Andy a size 38L,with only the 1inches more for the back length and not the 1inches more for the sleeve length,maybe it could help you to choose wisely !
Forget the 26 inches back length ,it's only for the Wested " standard" jacket when Wested made "standard" long time before the Hero model i knew well,it was one of my first jacket,and yes for the standard at Wested 26inches(perfect for me) was exactly the same back length as the Hero now..in back length 24 inches.
I know ,it sounds crazy,but it was all different pattern..

[Mulceber]

Not sure about the exact measurements, but the Relic Hunter has a very short back length in general because of its extreme off-the-shoulders effect. Rest assured, that 22.5" will sit lower than you'd expect.

The problem may also partly be that you've been wearing Indy jackets at the wrong length for years. A lot of us do that. We're used to jackets that go down to our mid-thigh and have to adjust to the fact that the Indy jacket is basically a waist-length jacket (okay, waist plus an inch).

FWIW, I would trust Andy. I've bought 4 jackets from him and he knows how a jacket should fit.

[Forrest For the Trees]

I have a size 38 Relic Hunter. I'm 5' 10", and the jacket has an extra inch over their standard sizing built in, roughly a 24" back length. It fits me perfectly, and I would not want it any shorter! If I were you, I would request the same. Just an extra inch in length. Not the sleeves, though, as 25" should be fine as is.

[Illinois_Jones]

26" is about what you'd get OTR at any store for a 38" or small-medium jacket. That RH will hang so that 22.5" sits more like a 24.5" jacket, which would be more screen accurate. Now if you want it to be more like an everyday wear length for normal pants like a standard Wested I'd probably add 1" .

[onhorseback]

Thanks for all the quick replies. Its seems I should be ok with just the 1" extra at the back, then.
As for having worn my previous jackets too long, I don't think I have, but here are the two sets of quick pics I sent Andy to help him work out a solution to this conundrum.

My Steele&Jones feels a tiny bit too short. In fact, the back is a bit shorter than the front, as the image below shows. The OTR Wested is maybe a bit too long, but as you can see by where they fall respective to my pockets the difference is minimal and it would be really difficult to get an accurate measure of where the mid point between them would be. The handwarmer pockets on the S&J are uncomfortable to use, whereas that's not the case with the Wested. Perhaps that discomfort is screen accurate Thoughts?

[Forrest For the Trees]

Yeah, the length on the Wested is perfect for you. Should go just past the belt buckle. Only thing else I see is that your jeans seem be somewhat low-rise. I have found that if you wear pants that go up closer to the true waist (old man pants!) a shorter jacket like an Indy or an A-2 will look far more natural and not too short. At the end of the day, it is your style to work with, so adjust the back length accordingly.

[Mulceber]

I'll second what Forest for the trees said. That being said, I know Andy's jacket is REALLY off the shoulder, effectively making the hem fall further below the waist, so I'd still go by his advice. Give him as many measurements as you can, answer any questions he has, throw in a few photographs, and trust him to get it right.

[Thee]

Mulceber I have never had a relic hunter but the ones I have seen don't seem to be very off the shoulder, just a little bit like a raiders jacket should be.

[Smithy]

Hi onhorseback,

Jacket fit is to a certain extent subjective but I'm with Forrest and Jan, the length of your Wested looks spot on. The S&J jacket looks far more like the length I'd want with an A-2 jacket and would work better with trousers with a higher rise.

If the Relic Hunter really does have excessive hang off the shoulders which will affect where it sits especially at the back, then you'll need to take that into account, and I'd be asking Andy questions about that. He patterned the jacket so he knows how it'll fit.

I'm new here but being a very long term VLJ member I have seen a lot of BK jackets over the years and as Jan points out Andy is usually very adept at working out sizing and fit SO LONG as you provide lots of measurements, photographs and convey to him what sort of fit and sizing you want.

Looking forward to seeing snaps of your jacket here when you eventually receive it!

Cheers,

Tim

[Mulceber]

Thanks, Tim! I'll also throw in this quote from a thread on jacket sizing Andy posted here a year or so ago:

THE BACK SEEMS TOO SHORT
-----------------------------------------
If you worry that the back measurement is too short, then please don’t. The pattern is made so that it is worn off shoulders so that the back falls lower than usual so it should look OK.

If you ask us to make the back longer please beware because in the Indy jacket pattern the back length equals the front. In other words, if we make the back 2 inches longer the front will also be 2 inches longer and believe me it will not look nice.

Now, if you want the jacket to be made with the front shorter than the back, OK it can be done, but it will cost you extra.

source: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=68505

[Forrest For the Trees]

I still vote add 1 inch in length if you are concerned. But no more than that. The Relic Hunter and the original Nowak Raiders jacket are meant to have shorter back lengths for the exact reason stated above. That said, I really appreciate the extra inch on my Relic Hunter. Since the shoulders seams do hang a bit past my actual shoulders, the 25 inch sleeve length is more than adequate, and I wouldn't add anything to them. But I suppose that all depends on your usual sleeve measurements. I wear dress shirts with 34 inch total sleeve lengths, and the 25 inch sleeve on leather jackets is usually perfect for me.

[Mulceber]

I still vote add 1 inch in length if you are concerned. But no more than that. The Relic Hunter and the original Nowak Raiders jacket are meant to have shorter back lengths for the exact reason stated above. That said, I really appreciate the extra inch on my Relic Hunter. Since the shoulders seams do hang a bit past my actual shoulders, the 25 inch sleeve length is more than adequate, and I wouldn't add anything to them. But I suppose that all depends on your usual sleeve measurements. I wear dress shirts with 34 inch total sleeve lengths, and the 25 inch sleeve on leather jackets is usually perfect for me.

Oh, I agree. Based on his photos, a regular size probably wouldn't fit him. I'm just saying don't go full custom sizing. Talk to Andy, and probably go for a long size.

[onhorseback]

Thanks again to all of you for the speedy replies. Definitely not full on custom, but I'll ask for the extra inch to be on the safe side. I'd rather have it an inch on the longish side than the other way around. Now if only I could magically add an inch to my S&J. My jeans are low rise as noted; I have been using the classic Levi's 501 for ages, and since I dont quite enjoy shopping around I never cared to try a different model, so perhaps I'll ask Santa to find me something with a higher waist. He will quite probably come down the chimney before the jacket itself comes through the door, I'm afraid. I'll be sure to post some photos once I get it to share my impressions

And until then (although slightly off topic), here's a pic of my 1/6 scale Indy to enliven the post

[Mulceber]

Not directly jacket-related, but Bronson (https://bronsonshop.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) has a pretty good selection of high-waisted pants of various types. They're pretty popular over on the Vintage Leather Jackets forum for having a wide selection of vintage-style Americana at reasonable prices.

[xmasters]

If you plan to wear any of the jackets with casual clothes they need to be 1" longer than screen accurate IMO, otherwise they just look like slightly odd looking short jackets.

[Forrest For the Trees]

To each his (or her) own. Some have long torsos, others short. Some wear high-rise pants, others don't. I think it depends on your own body-type and clothes preferences.

[xmasters]

That's true as well. I tend to think even in the movies, the jacket looks better on Indy when it appears slightly longer. Whether that be camera angles, the height on his pants wearing, or how much it's hanging off his shoulders. Sometimes bending the accuracy to create a perceived effect can be desirable.

[CM]

My Wested LC was 25 inches long at back and I am six two. It was certainly long enough. At five eight, I would have thought 22.5 is about right. If the OP wore a 26 inch long jacket it would probably fit like a car coat. Fans do often seem to wear these jackets on the long side and the film one was only 23 inches at back based on Tony Nowak's report. Ford's pants were mid rise and not period accurate to the 1930's.

[Indiego Jones]

Hi onhorseback,
Out of curiosity, could you tell order number of that S&J LC jacket??
Thanks.-

[onhorseback]

Hi, Indiego, I'll check and let you know.

It's been now 29 days without an answer from Andy. Is that normal? Is there any other way to contact them?

[xmasters]

Nope you have to be patient. Personally I would have not worried about the back length on the Relic hunter. The standard sizing is designed to be screen accurate for what ever chest size you order. You do also have the option to order the L(ong) version of the jacket after all. That would have given you an extra 1" if you wanted it. I presume you ordered the 38"R

[Mulceber]

Hi, Indiego, I'll check and let you know.

It's been now 29 days without an answer from Andy. Is that normal? Is there any other way to contact them?

Getting replies from BK can be difficult. They have NOT run off with your money. Having bought four jackets from them, I can assure you, you will receive your jacket, and the craftsmanship will be fantastic. My standard policy for emailing Andy is send him one email. If he doesn't reply, send him another polite follow-up email a week later. Wash, rinse, repeat until you get a reply.

[marker2037]

My Wested LC was 25 inches long at back and I am six two. It was certainly long enough. At five eight, I would have thought 22.5 is about right. If the OP wore a 26 inch long jacket it would probably fit like a car coat. Fans do often seem to wear these jackets on the long side and the film one was only 23 inches at back based on Tony Nowak's report. Ford's pants were mid rise and not period accurate to the 1930's.

This. I have a 42R with a 23.5" back. I'm 5'10" and it's plenty long enough, so a 22.5" for someone your size and height is about right. I would consider going away from the low rise jeans you wear in these pics and opt for medium to higher rise jeans before changing anything about the pattern from BK.

[onhorseback]

Hi, Indiego, I'll check and let you know.

It's been now 29 days without an answer from Andy. Is that normal? Is there any other way to contact them?

Getting replies from BK can be difficult. They have NOT run off with your money. Having bought four jackets from them, I can assure you, you will receive your jacket, and the craftsmanship will be fantastic. My standard policy for emailing Andy is send him one email. If he doesn't reply, send him another polite follow-up email a week later. Wash, rinse, repeat until you get a reply.

First of all, happy new year to everyone! Let's get 2021 cracking

Sorry to be a bother about this, but it's now been 2 months without an answer. Polite follow up with an email, nothing. Polite follow up through their website contact form, nothing. Polite follow up through a facebook message, nothing. I was simply trying to see whether any particular channels got more attention from them. In my follow ups I simply mention that they can go ahead with the measurements they gave me but adding an extra inch at the back, so nothing complex that would require more than a simple "ok, we'll start construction". The order was made on September 20 and his email asking me for the pictures is from November 4. I'm baffled. If I had bought the jacket simply by landing on their website without having had info on them through here I would have opened a paypal claim long ago (understandably, I think). Does this still sound like their normal modus operandi? Do customers regularly go 60 days without an answer and should I just take it as the way things are with them? I was aware that actually getting the jacket would be a matter of six months easily, but a simple aknowledgement that my messages have been received and that the jacket I paid for three months and a half ago is being made is quite a different matter. Any thoughts welcomed.

[RelicHunter]

Sorry to be a bother about this, but it's now been 2 months without an answer. Polite follow up with an email, nothing. Polite follow up through their website contact form, nothing. Polite follow up through a facebook message, nothing. I was simply trying to see whether any particular channels got more attention from them. In my follow ups I simply mention that they can go ahead with the measurements they gave me but adding an extra inch at the back, so nothing complex that would require more than a simple "ok, we'll start construction". The order was made on September 20 and his email asking me for the pictures is from November 4. I'm baffled. If I had bought the jacket simply by landing on their website without having had info on them through here I would have opened a paypal claim long ago (understandably, I think). Does this still sound like their normal modus operandi? Do customers regularly go 60 days without an answer and should I just take it as the way things are with them? I was aware that actually getting the jacket would be a matter of six months easily, but a simple aknowledgement that my messages have been received and that the jacket I paid for three months and a half ago is being made is quite a different matter. Any thoughts welcomed.

You're not alone. I ordered a BK in striated lamb back in March, and accepted an inevitable delay as everything shut down. Andy wrote me in early August to confirm measurements, and I replied giving him the go ahead. Since then, I've followed up multiple times by email and with a PM here on the board, but I've heard nothing in response – not even confirmation that my first reply was received.

Following the message boards here, and seeing that BK is apparently still shipping jackets that were ordered before mine, has kept me from worrying too much, and of course we all have to make allowances given the state of the world right now. But the struggle to get even a simple acknowledgement by email has been, as you say, baffling. And disappointing.

[xmasters]

They get a lot of emails, if they replied to every one every day they'd never get any work done. If you gave the go ahead then just sit tight.

Likewise if your order is still awaiting confirmed measurements you'll be contacted before your jacket is made to resolve it.

[Cowboy]

Here is a partial response I received from Kelso today

"Please note our government imposed quarantine and lockdown again to all shops from the first week of November until further notice. We ask for your understanding as there will be a delay in answering your messages. If you have an outstanding jacket order currently in our production we apologize in advance for the delay due to this unprecedented "force majeure". Needless to say all previously given delivery estimates are to be considered null and void. For the time being we are trying to continue the work "under the radar" of the authorities because the fines if we get caught are huge. However, under these circumstances we cannot work full time and as such progress is much slower. We can assure you that upon our opening we will be working double time in order to catch up and deliver your jackets. We promise to deliver your jackets sooner or later.

We would like to thank you all for your patience and support and hope you are safe and sound.

God bless,
Bill Kelso Team"

So it would seem that they have it much worse (lock downs) than we do here in the States.

[CM]

Unfortunately I think managing a pandemic will take priority over jacket making, as it should. Patience will be needed for a lot of things for some time to come.

[Forrest For the Trees]

Wow. Seems the same happened at Wested too. Well-wishes to all.

[onhorseback]

Here is a partial response I received from Kelso today

"Please note our government imposed quarantine and lockdown again to all shops from the first week of November until further notice. We ask for your understanding as there will be a delay in answering your messages. If you have an outstanding jacket order currently in our production we apologize in advance for the delay due to this unprecedented "force majeure". Needless to say all previously given delivery estimates are to be considered null and void. For the time being we are trying to continue the work "under the radar" of the authorities because the fines if we get caught are huge. However, under these circumstances we cannot work full time and as such progress is much slower. We can assure you that upon our opening we will be working double time in order to catch up and deliver your jackets. We promise to deliver your jackets sooner or later.

We would like to thank you all for your patience and support and hope you are safe and sound.

God bless,
Bill Kelso Team"

So it would seem that they have it much worse (lock downs) than we do here in the States.

Well, that makes sense. Sitting tight then. We had a lockdown here in Spain during March, April and May, I wasn't aware the situation in the UK was so dire at the moment

[tomek9210]

Well, that makes sense. Sitting tight then. We had a lockdown here in Spain during March, April and May, I wasn't aware the situation in the UK was so dire at the moment

Bill Kelso is located in Greece, not the UK, but I see, tough times are everywhere.

[RelicHunter]

An update on my order: BK emailed to let me know my jacket just shipped!

So if you're still waiting, hang in there. They are currently working and shipping jackets. (FYI: I ordered last March.)

[onhorseback]

An update on my order: BK emailed to let me know my jacket just shipped!

So if you're still waiting, hang in there. They are currently working and shipping jackets. (FYI: I ordered last March.)

Thanks for the update. I finally got a reply from him too, so I know it's just a matter of time. A long one though, considering your order date Please post pics when you get it!

[The Aviator]

What’s the average waiting time on one of these jackets?

Apologies I’m returning after a while having bought a Raiders Lamb back in 08, and this is a new entry for me, it looks fantastic!

Best

Gerry

[RelicHunter]

An update on my order: BK emailed to let me know my jacket just shipped!

So if you're still waiting, hang in there. They are currently working and shipping jackets. (FYI: I ordered last March.)

Thanks for the update. I finally got a reply from him too, so I know it's just a matter of time. A long one though, considering your order date Please post pics when you get it!

Will do!

In the meantime, keep the faith.

[Texan Scott]

The difference in back lengths is not in the off the shoulders effect. It is in how deeply the collars are cut into the back that is the difference. Take any standard jacket collar of roughly equal size or even a Last Crusade jacket collar and put it up against a Relic Hunter or other Raiders pattern accurate jacket, from end to end. The collar on the RH will be possibly 4-6 or so inches longer, depending. A standard OTR- correct fitting jacket will have a shorter collar and longer back length, all things considered.

[Thunderspy]

An update on my order: BK emailed to let me know my jacket just shipped!

So if you're still waiting, hang in there. They are currently working and shipping jackets. (FYI: I ordered last March.)

(Hello- first post here!)
Yes I bought a Relic Hunter last year- I ordered in January and (no doubt due to covid and the delays imposed) it took 10 months to arrive. I got very nervous (especially when the BK website went offline! Mulceber will know my fretting from the Vintage Leather forum! ) and did think about trying to get my money back, but the jacket eventually arrived and I'm glad I held my nerve! It's absolutely beautiful and my Wested barely gets a look-in now!
It is quite a different fit: much wider at the shoulders and the back is shorter, but it never feels too short for me- it feels just right. I'm a fairly average build at 5'11". I went for the striated lamb and I'd definitely say to pay the extra if you're ordering.

I've been trying to join this site for ages but I couldn't my ISP email address to work until now! Rubbish Virgin Media

[Mulceber]

Looks great, Thunderspy! And we've all been there with these long wait times. Now wear the tick out of it! (as they say over on the VLJ)

[xmasters]

A beautiful jacket. I really do see the movie jacket when I look at that.

[Thunderspy]

Yes I couldn't be happier with it: the leather is beautiful quality and even the lining feels substantial and just a top drawer product. I know it looks almost a bit reddish in those pics but that's not really how it looks.
There's nothing wrong with the Wested at all but you really appreciate the difference when they're side by side.

[Forrest For the Trees]

Nice! Welcome! Great jacket. Just wear it as much as you can. It will develop a ton of character. That leather breaks in super easily.

[Bdgsi11]

Fantastic looking jacket and excellent choice. I’m a big fan of these Relic Hunters and believe that the leather used is perfect in every way. I recently had one delivered that was ordered last year in July and it was absolutely worth the wait. Did your jacket come with the regular sliders or the two prong buckle configuration?

[Thunderspy]

Fantastic looking jacket and excellent choice. I’m a big fan of these Relic Hunters and believe that the leather used is perfect in every way. I recently had one delivered that was ordered last year in July and it was absolutely worth the wait. Did your jacket come with the regular sliders or the two prong buckle configuration?

Thank you, yes it's perfect. Did you go Striated lamb too? Mine is a Cairo I think. I think I saw your photos on another forum and they helped me to decide to get one! You've had a few, haven't you?
Just regular sliding buckles on mine- did Indy's have prongs?

[Bdgsi11]

I got the striated lamb, Cairo Main Hero. That’s been my favorite jacket variant from Raiders as it is seen for almost its entirety. I have had quite a few of these jackets made but it’s mainly been a journey of trial and error in regards to getting that perfect size. I’ve sold a couple of them and would repurchase with adjustments made. This one that I’ve just received is an absolute winner in appearance, fit, drape and I couldn’t be happier with it. This batch of striated lamb is also more inline with what they had originally used when they first started making these jackets and is a touch darker. I think it’s perfect and hope that they don’t change it.

It’s been established from another thread that the two prong buckles were used for the Raiders jackets. It’s a minute detail but does add a nice touch in making it as screen accurate as it possibly can be.

[Hammerklavier]

An update on my order: BK emailed to let me know my jacket just shipped!

So if you're still waiting, hang in there. They are currently working and shipping jackets. (FYI: I ordered last March.)

(Hello- first post here!)
Yes I bought a Relic Hunter last year- I ordered in January and (no doubt due to covid and the delays imposed) it took 10 months to arrive. I got very nervous (especially when the BK website went offline! Mulceber will know my fretting from the Vintage Leather forum! ) and did think about trying to get my money back, but the jacket eventually arrived and I'm glad I held my nerve! It's absolutely beautiful and my Wested barely gets a look-in now!
It is quite a different fit: much wider at the shoulders and the back is shorter, but it never feels too short for me- it feels just right. I'm a fairly average build at 5'11". I went for the striated lamb and I'd definitely say to pay the extra if you're ordering.

I've been trying to join this site for ages but I couldn't my ISP email address to work until now! Rubbish Virgin Media

That looks perfect, can I ask the back length of this jacket? Thanks!

[onhorseback]

Well, it ended in tears.

This was supposed to be a review of my long awaited Relic Hunter, but since that couldn't be I thought I'd offer at least the narrative of my experience after all the patience and help I got from you all. I apologize for having left the thread in a cliffhanger for so long, I should have written it earlier

To recap: I placed my order at the end of September 2020, and a month later I got an email from Andy saying the jacket would start construction and asking me to confirm the measurements (I had ordered a standard size, so no measurements had been asked for or provided before that). As you know, the back length seemed a tad short to me, and I provided some photos to Andy of my previous Indy jackets thinking that it might be good to add an extra inch. I waited three weeks but got no reply, so I wrote again. Some of you advised me to be patient and not to worry regarding Bill Kelso's communication issues, and so I just kept on waiting. A response finally arrived in January 2021, and after a number of emails to which I got replies in a timely fashion he recommended adding just a half inch to the back instead of a full one. Mid March I got a tracking number and a couple of weeks later the jacket was in my hands.

I opened the parcel, examined the jacket, and immediately noticed several spots where the leather seemed to be peeling off, as well as an odd discoloration and deformation in the chest. I took pictures of it and emailed them back to Andy. That same morning I got a reply simply asking me to send it back. I was refunded in June, but only for the price of the jacket and the return shipping. I wrote to Andy and argued that since it had been a manufacturing error on their side I should not be made liable in any way and considered they should return the original shipping as well. However, they saw things differently and replied with a link to their terms-of-sale, according to which original shipping is non refundable. I suppose it's a matter of opinion and that they were, after all, within their legal right to apply that rule, but I wholeheartedly disagreed and let Andy know politely but firmly. I honestly see no reason why a customer should loose any money on a transaction when the item purchased has turned out to be defective. I think in cases such as this it is the business who should bear whatever indirect losses come from their mistakes, and in the rare occasions in which I have had similar problems buying online that has been my experience. Andy's reply after that (and I'll quote directly) was that they had examined the jacket "under high efficiency special Philips lights with high Color Rendering Index", and that the discoloration I mentioned was not apparent to them, adding that the cracks and patches of peeled off leather I had seen were part of their "greater effort" done at the tannery to offer a leather that ages quickly so that "no extra effort form the customer" will be required. Perhaps I'm odd in finding displeasure with such explanations and their process truly is something that everyone else desires when purchasing a new jacket, but if that is so, at the very least it is a practice that should be made clear at the moment of purchase. To be clear, the jacket was not distressed on purpose, in the way that, for example, Steele&Jones or Magnoli offer to distress their jackets; the jacket was new but the leather was peeling off in several places. In any case, Andy had not mentioned any of these things when refunding the amount paid for the jacket and the return shipping. That refund had taken place without any comment on their part regarding the accuracy or lack thereof of my complaints. Anyway, after that explanation Andy added that since they wanted me to have a positive experience they had decided to refund the original shipping after all, for which I thanked him.

I should add that I had ordered the Lambskin Grainy Authentic Brown, by the way. Everyone here seems to be head over hills with their Striated Lamb Relic Hunter, so perhaps I would have avoided all this trouble if I had ordered that instead. However, the whole experience, particularly the difficulty regarding communications, has really dampen my willingness to submit to this process again. To be fair, this is but one personal experience among what seem to be hundred of happy customers, so perhaps this case was in part a series of unlucky events. I'm sure the Covid situation didn't help either. In any case, I am now the very happy owner of a Legacy Raiders from Wested (which became the replacement for my now sold Wested off-the-rack shown in this post). It's my spring/summer Indy Jacket, and the Steele&Jones Smithsonian replica (after buying a couple pairs of high waisted trousers as advised by some of you) has become my autum/winter one. I would happily give the Magnoli Adventure a try, but considering the current state of shipping from overseas both in regards to time and customs, I think my search for the perfect Indy jacket(s) has finished

[Cowboy]

I cannot attest to Kelso. I can tell you that after trying numerous jackets since 2006, hands down, the best experience and product I have ever received from a vendor is S&J. I ordered a custom in August and had it by November. Fits like a glove, beautiful craftsmanship and TOP TIER customer service. I love my Expo (too big now) but I have had several Wested and US Wings. Diego builds a very good product and at a very good value.