Chronicles of a First Indy Whip: Chose Wisely or Poorly?

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:58 pm

Howdy y'all! I've finally pulled the trigger on my first Indy whip, so I'm starting a new topic to post updates for the community on my experience.

It's an 8ft Raiders-style in natural tan kangaroo hide, slightly darker heel and transition knots, white fall.

I'll be following up with progress pics, reviews, and maybe even some cracking vids if I don't accidentally kill myself with it.

Stay tuned!

Loneken · Post by **Loneken** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:03 pm

Exciting! Where did you purchase it from?

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:51 pm

Coming from a craftsman I found on Etsy, Josh from Catchall Crafts. It will be a custom build, not one of the whips he already has listed, and I sent a handful of reference images of what I'm after.

I'm not expecting it to be perfect, as he's still honing his craft, but he was very upfront about that, and the agreed-upon price was reasonable. I admire the look of his current work and commitment to proper building techniques, and he's been a pleasure to deal with so far. I'm happy to play a part in the early stages of his growth as a whipmaker and invest in his potential as a future vendor for others in the community.

He's mainly studied Morgan's style of whipmaking, and he's getting the hides from Nolan, so I at least know the raw material will be of good quality.

agary7046 · Post by **agary7046** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:13 pm

Definitely keep the updates coming! Checked out his shop and his whips looked great so far, looking forward to the Indy Whip from him. It would be great to support an up and coming whip maker.

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:08 pm

Will do. In fact, a question arose that I would love some advice on. He's asking if I want the entire whip inside and out including the overlay, braided bellies, bolsters, and core to be kangaroo hide, or if I just want kangaroo hide overlay and bellies, but kip "wear leather" bolsters and core.

He said Nolan, and apparently Morgan, both do the latter.

If all things were equal to my purse, what would you lot recommend?

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:18 pm

Chose Poorly wrote:Will do. In fact, a question arose that I would love some advice on. He's asking if I want the entire whip inside and out including the overlay, braided bellies, bolsters, and core to be kangaroo hide, or if I just want kangaroo hide overlay and bellies, but kip "wear leather" bolsters and core.

He said Nolan, and apparently Morgan, both do the latter.

If all things were equal to my purse, what would you lot recommend?

I’m leaning kip core and bolsters, kangaroo bellies, overlay and knots. That’s the maker’s advice, and the Nolan and Morgan way.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:26 pm

Using kangaroo for the bolsters is a waste. The whole point of using roo for braiding is that it can take more stretch and be braided tighter than cow or calf. The bolsters are simply layers wrapped around the braided bellies for which calf is more than adequate. Pretty sure not only Morgan in his day, but also Strain, Stenhouse, Winrich, Nolan, DelCarpio (even myself) did the same.

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:37 pm

whiskyman wrote:Using kangaroo for the bolsters is a waste. The whole point of using roo for braiding is that it can take more stretch and be braided tighter than cow or calf. The bolsters are simply layers wrapped around the braided bellies for which calf is more than adequate. Pretty sure not only Morgan in his day, but also Strain, Stenhouse, Winrich, Nolan, DelCarpio (even myself) did the same.

Thanks whiskyman! Appreciate your perspective.

Honestly, I never would have asked about it if the whipmaker hadn't asked my preference. He was just trying to be transparent, which of course left me confused since I didn't have the education to know the difference and he was willing to do both. He provided a lot of really helpful information and suggested I go with kip for more than just the economy of it. I'm excited to see how it turns out.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:03 pm

Well, not to name names, but there is a "whip expert" in Germany that has been insinuating that whip makers claiming to be making roohide whips are deceiving their customers by using calf or cow bolsters. Utter rubbish, because as I mentioned roohide is only a preferable leather when it comes to braiding. Using roo for bolsters instead of cow or calf will make absolutely NO difference to the quality of the whip in ANY way!! Just a waste of a more expensive leather!

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:08 pm

I posted some pics of some of my own whips a few days ago - just to point out I do know what I'm talking about ;-)

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:29 pm

whiskyman wrote:Well, not to name names, but there is a "whip expert" in Germany that has been insinuating that whip makers claiming to be making roohide whips are deceiving their customers by using calf or cow bolsters. Utter rubbish, because as I mentioned roohide is only a preferable leather when it comes to braiding. Using roo for bolsters instead of cow or calf will make absolutely NO difference to the quality of the whip in ANY way!! Just a waste of a more expensive leather!

It only takes a little searching on the internet to disprove that as even a potential practice to deceive anyone. So, that's ridiculous.

Further, I found the guidance from Josh who is making my whip very helpful. I'll paste it here for all to see...

"The [kip] bolsters won't really drive the price down for a few reasons. The parts of the kangaroo skins that get used as bolsters wouldn't really be used for anything else, they come from the very edges and are kind of scrappy and thin and are otherwise scrap. For American bullwhips many people prefer kip because it can help add diameter and can ultimately help with smoothness because it's softer and more supple when it gets conditioned, so it can fill up any creases from the bellies just a little bit better than kangaroo (but that difference is negligible). The bolsters don't really do anything for durability of a whip. So, apart from helping with adding thickness, the decision is really just a piece of mind thing. A lot of people like to be able to say that their whip is 100% kangaroo, or they like to be able to say it's built as close to David Morgan's Indys as possible."

whiskyman wrote:I posted some pics of some of my own whips a few days ago - just to point out I do know what I'm talking about ;-)

Oh, I know. No need to prove yourself to me.

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:40 am

Update #1 - Core complete.

https://imgur.com/a/RGTjmVP

*I know this isn’t that exciting. I’m really just keeping myself entertained.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:41 am

I love seeing progress pics!
And it's nice to have something happening in the bullwhip forum

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:02 pm

I’ll keep ‘em coming. He’s waiting on kangaroo hides from Nolan so he can start the first belly.

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:54 am

Progress pics ARE exciting! Keep'em coming!

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:51 am

His whips look ok for the price. Keep us posted, there is nothing better than WIP photos

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:51 pm

Drawback to waiting for things is that I just ordered a bunch of sh*t to fill the void. Online shopping has really made instant gratification a disease of late. I think I’ll fully suit up and do a photo shoot when everything comes in to share with y’all.

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:49 pm

Yeah, but delayed gratification can be good at times. I think the internet has gotten us too normalized to instant gratification.

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:57 am

IJJTM wrote:Yeah, but delayed gratification can be good at times. I think the internet has gotten us too normalized to instant gratification.

Oh, for sure! That's what I was acknowledging (and diagnosing myself with).

It's amazing how many things we all think we need, can find on Amazon Prime, but then see that it can't be delivered same day or next day and decide not to order it at all. We only needed it now, or not at all. Haha.

In this case I was just rounding out my gear sooner than I planned, so at least it was stuff I was going to order eventually. Better now than running into potential stock issues later (I justify to myself).

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:04 am

Well said.

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:07 am

Hides have arrived, and more progress made!

First belly plaited, second bolster attached, second belly cut and attached.

https://imgur.com/a/RGTjmVP" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:34 am

It looks really well made. Nice, tight and uniform plaiting!

Looks like you're in for a great whip.

Cheers,
Bear

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:49 am

If there’s one thing this hobby taught me, it’s patience.

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:01 am

Cruising right along! Overlay has been cut. Working on second belly, bolster and overlay today.

https://imgur.com/a/RGTjmVP" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:08 am

Very nice whip

Do you have any other whips to have a comparison?

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:17 pm

tomek9210 wrote:Very nice whip

Do you have any other whips to have a comparison?

I don’t. This will be my first!

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:26 pm

2nd belly done, final bolster attached. Overlay going on this evening. Shellac tomorrow.

https://imgur.com/a/RGTjmVP

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:21 pm

All looking very nice indeed. Personally, I always greased my bolsters rather than leaving them dry, but maybe that's just me.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:28 pm

The other difference to my approach is that I always attached the lead tape to the nail before the first belly, rather than adding it at the end. To my mind it gave me a more secure butt foundation. I know that Winrich added it later, like this whipmaker. Was never quite sure when Morgan did it. Ultimately, I think most Indy whip makers have very similar methods (we're all following Morgan), but with a few personal tweaks. Looking forward to seeing the finished whip.

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:27 pm

Should be done sometime tomorrow, christened with a couple of test cracks. Hopefully those come with video for me to share...

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:35 pm

Construction complete. On to finishing. Darkening the knots a bit, then coating with shellac. Will share more photos of the final product when I have them.

https://imgur.com/a/RGTjmVP

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:16 pm

Oh, wooow! That looks so good!

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:21 pm

Knots slightly darkened. Shellac done. Setting the coil now. Crack videos to come...

https://imgur.com/a/RGTjmVP

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:29 am

Whip complete! I think he did a fantastic job.

Hitting the mail tomorrow. Should be in my hands sometime next week.

https://imgur.com/a/RGTjmVP

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:57 am

Looks pretty nice.

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:43 am

Josh sent me a video of him doing a couple of test cracks indoors because it was raining outside for the next few days. He got two solid cracks out of it just doing underhand wrist flicks with almost no effort. For me, the really nice thing to see was how excited he was about the whip. I always love seeing a craftsman jazzed about something they created, especially on a custom order. Because Josh is the one in the video, I'm not going to post it, but i'll shoot a video of me cracking it outside when it arrives. Hopefully I don't scare the in-laws' cows too much...

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:03 pm

Congrats - looks very well made. Nice and smooth, even taper, strand drops are not too noticeable. Seeing the finished whip I can see that he does one thing quite differently to me ( or vice versa), but that's just aesthetics.

I only add the bolsters to the braided sections and not the handle foundation - which gives a slimmer handle that tapers into the main thong. Just a personal preference regarding appearance that doesn't influence the quality of the whip. I guess it's one of those little things that makes it possible to recognise a whipmaker's 'handwriting'.

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:44 pm

whiskyman wrote:Congrats - looks very well made. Nice and smooth, even taper, strand drops are not too noticeable. Seeing the finished whip I can see that he does one thing quite differently to me ( or vice versa), but that's just aesthetics.
I only add the bolsters to the braided sections and not the handle foundation - which gives a slimmer handle that tapers into the main thong. Just a personal preference regarding appearance that doesn't influence the quality of the whip. I guess it's one of those little things that makes it possible to recognise a whipmaker's 'handwriting'.

Yeah, it’s a thick handle for sure. I haven’t handled many whips, so I’m curious to see how it suits me.

Look how pretty you’re whip looks. Nice work, sir!

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:20 am

Chose Poorly wrote:Whip complete! I think he did a fantastic job.

Hitting the mail tomorrow. Should be in my hands sometime next week.

https://imgur.com/a/RGTjmVP

It looks really nice! The plating is very tight, smooth and uniform! This thing will last you a lifetime of adventures!

It was very nice of you to share the progress pics with us, very fun journey!

On a sidenote: I love the small whips he has hanging around in the first picture.

Cheers,
Bear

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:46 am

I agree with Whiskyman, it would look better with slimmer handle, but it looks nice anyway.

Happy cracking!

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:51 am

Thanks y’all. I can’t sing Josh’s praises enough. Such a pleasure to do business with. I highly recommend ordering from him if you’re looking for a well made whip on a budget.

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:38 pm

I am very impressed by his turn around time. I'm still waiting on my whip from another maker that I ordered early this year. Looks to me like you got a great whip at a great price and you will be receiving it shortly! I can't help but be a little jealous! Looking forward to more follow up pictures and videos when you receive it.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:47 pm

You definitely got a good quality, well made and good looking whip for a decent price!

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:22 pm

Whip arrived, and wow is it stunning! Josh included a spare fall, 10 spare poppers, a tub of leather dressing, and a hand-written thank you card. Just an all around great guy.

I uploaded an “unboxing” pic, a pic of the whip hanging on a Spade & Archer Leather Raiders Double Wrap, and a couple of pics of the handle in my hand since there was some discussion about preferred handle thickness. Personally, I don't think I would want the handle any thinner than this, but I'm sure Josh could accommodate if anyone thinking of ordering a whip prefers that he keeps the bolsters above the handle only. Feels like an easy adjustment to make during construction.

I will take some more pics and maybe some video later when I have time to play.

https://imgur.com/a/RGTjmVP" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(WPG sent me the wrong Raiders belt so i'll have to wait to suit up, but when I do, i'll be sure to hang or jump off of something dangerous to make up for it)

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:15 pm

That a thing of beauty.
Looks like he knows his whip construction.
Crack it in good health.

Now I really can’t wait for mine.

Croft

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:55 pm

Indiana Croft wrote:That a thing of beauty.
Looks like he knows his whip construction.
Crack it in good health.

Now I really can’t wait for mine.

Croft

Thanks, Croft! Pretty pumped about it. Feels incredible in the hand.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:41 am

Looks great! Happy cracking!

Indiana_Nate · Post by **Indiana_Nate** » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:02 pm

That's a fine looking whip

. Looks like you didn't "Chose Poorly" after all!

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:12 pm

Just noticed the last pics you added... It's really an amazing looking whip!

It looks like you're set for your next adventures!

Cheers,
Bear

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:34 pm

Indiana_Nate wrote:That's a fine looking whip . Looks like you didn't "Chose Poorly" after all!

Yes! I think I can officially answer the question in the topic title. I chose wisely for once! $\:D/$

whiskyman wrote:Looks great! Happy cracking!

bearbeast wrote:Just noticed the last pics you added... It's really an amazing looking whip!

It looks like you're set for your next adventures!

Cheers,
Bear

Thanks whiskyman and bearbeast! Means a lot coming from you both.