Tracking Jackets with Film Evidence Part 1

[Yojimbo Jones]

Hi all,

Ok, so for the last few weeks (/months?) a few "top men" have been really getting to the nitty gritty of the Raiders jackets' appearances in the movie. In doing so, a few myths have been debunked. This thread is here to lay out which jacket appeared where and what happened to them in the course of filming.

There is quite a bit to this, so I'm going to lay it out in chunks. Showing the precise differences between the main jackets will happen in a few weeks - because I'm working on the assumption most regulars know about them. Ditto the obvious scenes where they appear. But the first thing I want to do is present a few connections and revelations that haven't been covered before that I've seen. So first an overview:

Here are the ONLY jackets evidenced in the movie, and a few quick markers:
1. "Hero" jacket - Droopy collar, striated chest panel, high yoke.
2. "Hawaii" jacket - Flat collar. Basically identical to "Hero" apart from texture variations and the way the collar lays.
3. "Bantu Wind" jacket - Flared open lapel, lower yoke, concaved collar.

THESE ARE THE ONLY 3 LEATHER JACKETS THAT APPEAR. There is NO "Wilson". If there is a Wilson, it is what I am calling the "Bantu Wind". But that jacket has pleats. Anyway, I digress. The point is - if there were more jackets made, they never made it to screen.

What happened to the jackets in this movie is very simple:

- The Bantu Wind scene was shot in France using the "Bantu Wind" jacket.

- Production moves to the UK. Imam's House scene is shot with Ford wearing the "Hawaii" jacket.

- For some reason when the next scene is shot, Ford switches to another practically identical jacket which becomes the main "Hero". He continues to wear this through the Elstree shoot, with Martin Grace using either the "Bantu Wind" or the "Hawaii". (see photo jumping over scary pit). Could be either, but I'm kind of leaning towards the "Bantu Wind".

- They hit Tunisia, and use the "Hero" for the Flying Wing scene.

- The truck chase - here's where it gets interesting. Terry Leonard exclusively wears the "Bantu Wind" jacket on horseback, and going under the truck. This jacket HAS PLEATS. The only shot where no pleats appear is the one hanging onto the front. This is an illusion. As you can see by the photos below, there are pleats. If you watch the Making of DVD, and the Stunts of, he's clearly wearing this jacket when sussing out the going-under-the-truck stunt, etc.

- Ford wears ALL THREE jackets in the course of the truck sequence. And some very freaky things happen. The Ford scenes & pickup shots were shot over a couple of days. They were the last scenes where he wore a jacket in Tunisia.

- He was wearing the main "Hero" jacket being dragged on the road behind the truck. Even more amusing for those who hold this jacket as their holy grail, they then squibbed it and blew the arm apart. Note the drag marks / dust under the arm in the collage. So it was detonated. Bye bye hero jacket.

- There where TWO jackets with a bullet wound. The other one was the "Hawaii" - almost all the shots you see of Indy with the arm injury in the truck was this one. They just nicked the jacket with a little crooked slit. Completely different entry "wound". Flat collar very obvious.

- Just before the blond German dude jumps in the driver's side window, there is a shot of Indy. He's wearing the "Bantu Wind" jacket. Its collar presents completely differently to the other two.

- Jump to Hawaii. They can't use the main "Hero" because they drug it behind a car and then blew it up. The "Bantu Wind" is torn up pretty good too from Leonard's little escapade. So they switch to the least damaged - the "Hawaii". They patch the slit from the inside and shoot the remaining scenes. It then makes its way back to the ranch after filming. This is the jacket that Tony Nowak was given to duplicate.

That's it for now. Evidence below. Textures, zipper variations etc. have all been compared to the nth degree. There are more markeks / explanations but I really should start work for the day.

Thanks again for your help guys nameable and unnamed - you know who you are!

Mods, the bigness and volume of these images has already been cleared via Bink who checked with someone else. I've tried to condense them as much as possible while keeping clarity.

cheers, Yojimbo.

[Holt]

Boy! you remind me of me yojimmi!


and just to ad, I did the exact same analyze as you did. I just didnt bother to post it. but were thinking and seeing the same..

great work!

[Indyzane]

Wow! Amazing work! Thanks so much for sharing.

[agent5]

They patch the slit from the inside and shoot the remaining scenes. It then makes its way back to the ranch after filming. This is the jacket that Tony Nowak was given to duplicate.

I'm not understanding why if 10-12 jackets were made why they'd repair a ripped jacket used for an earlier stunt when they can just pick a new one?

Did Tony confirm the jacket he copied had a repaired rip on the sleeve?

[Holt]

well he did say the jacket had a rip in it. didnt hear anything about the sleeve tho

[crismans]

Terrific work, Yojimbo. I can't wait until you can post more showing the precise pics/descriptions of the jackets.

That and the discussions that will follow!

[Yojimbo Jones]

Oh seriously Crismans, how much else is there to be discussed about a 30 year old film jacket?

[Yojimbo Jones]

Thanks.

The way I see it, there were 2 jackets that were almost identical. In my mind, it's most likely they came from one source, but anything's possible I guess. Who that source is is a whole other debate...

But the point is that this shows that the actual "hero" got blown up - not an exact duplicate. The collar and the fresh sleeve distressing are the key tells.

[Yojimbo Jones]

YJ - I think I'm just hung on the idea of blasting a hole in the hero, knowing they have Hawaii left to shoot. But as far as I'm concerned, the gap is a nit.

I know, but I actually love the irony of them treating something we treat with such reverence as so disposable. They still had at least one jacket in ok condition left, and it was the last day of shooting in Tunisia. Continuity would have been happy as the next scenes were in the "past".

[Holt]

ok. its back.

play nice!

[Holt]

yomumbo:

I did some screen grabbing work.

and as much as I could agree with all of it, I ''hit a snag''

from your pictures below I read that in your opinion Ford wears the Bantu jacket with the ''zip gap'' in the truck behind the wheel. right? but IMO that could not be...that jacket has a high yoke.

here, look. in a split second when Ford turn towards the door you see the high yoke.

[Holt]

yes, dockside bantu jacket.


this one.

[Indiana Jeff]

Question: If SS labeled the Bantu Wind jacket the POS, why would it have been kept around and used in any other part of the production? Especially on HF?

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Michaelson]

If you'll notice, of all the photos above, the only one that Ford appears in is the dockside BW shots, 1st day of production.

All the other shots are with the jacket on stuntmen in Tunisa.

It was expendable.

Regards! Michaelson

[crismans]

Really, and as hard as it is for us to imagine now, ALL of these jackets were disposable. That's why, even though it seems incomprehensible to us here, they might very well have squibbed the main hero in the truck shot. They had another jacket for Hawai so it wasn't a big deal. Even though it would cause us a collective stroke.

and I agree with RC. I think we're closer than ever to unraveling at least a large portion of this.

[whipcracker]

Well, as Gerald Ford said "Things are more apparent now than they have ever been."


This is good stuff. Thanks guys for all of this work...

[CM]

Sorry guys I repect your work but the jacket has just turned into a series of inkblots open to interpertation. I've tried two monitors and all I can see are similarities but no definitive proof of the theory.

You may well be right but it's not coming together for this old soldier.

[Yojimbo Jones]

yomumbo:

I did some screen grabbing work.

and as much as I could agree with all of it, I ''hit a snag''

from your pictures below I read that in your opinion Ford wears the Bantu jacket with the ''zip gap'' in the truck behind the wheel. right? but IMO that could not be...that jacket has a high yoke.

here, look. in a split second when Ford turn towards the door you see the high yoke.

I'm not able to check at the moment, but I think the shot you've shown is where he kicks the guy out the door? You'll find that's a different jacket. The Bantu jacket ONLY appears just before the guy jumps IN the drives window.

[Holt]

no. that scene is one scene. it isnt cut. you see him from your screen grab moving towards the right in one scene.

[Yojimbo Jones]

I haven't pointed out which inkblots are which yet!

For instance, the reason the jacket Ford is wearing being dragged behind the "truck" is identified as the "Hero" is that it has the droopy collar. (Ford's RH) It's the only one that looks like that. It matches all the other hero jacket shots in a very distinctive way.

The thing is, it's kind of like in The Matrix, where Keanu Reeves starts to "see" the binary. Once you have looked for the markers enough, the differences stand out really obviously, not vice-versa.

[Yojimbo Jones]

I'll have to check it out. I may have pasted the wrong grab in or something. I have, like, 50 million of them.

[Holt]

The thing is, it's kind of like in The Matrix, where Keanu Reeves starts to "see" the binary. Once you have looked for the markers enough, the differences stand out really obviously, not vice-versa.

Serious!!!!!!

I was just about to post this myself!!

[Yojimbo Jones]

no. that scene is one scene. it isnt cut. ou see him from your screen grab moving towards the right in one scene.

Ok, I've had a look, and it's come back to me. There are a few shots of that collar. The one I mentioned above is between where the guy is on the roof to when he jumps in. The one you mention is when he's kicking the other dude that shot him off of the passenger door.

Having said that, they look like the same collar to me, which is a definite mismatch to the 2 main jackets and a match for the BW collar / zip. The yoke seem you point out is a bit vague in this shot. It does look high-ish, but when you take into account the other elements of that specific jacket, it doesn't make sense that it could be one of the other 2.

Bear in mind the shot immediately afterward (taken from the doorway showing the arm wound as he kicks the guy) is of a different jacket entirely.

[Flash Gordon]

Which jackets had the d-rings and which jackets had the sliders? (Cooper, Wested, etc.?)

And how did they come to have different fasteners in the first place?

You'd think that they'd want to keep the hardware the same if they're trying to duplicate jackets.

[Yojimbo Jones]

@P - Yep, you're tired.

[Holt]

correct me if Im wrong but the westeds was delieverd with Drings. they keept slipping all the time so they were changed to rectangular sliders.

cooper came tri glides.

[Yojimbo Jones]

I'm just going to answer the question straight: How do we know that? Is there a single shot in the movie that shows D-rings?

I understand why we bring stuff like this info in, but if we can keep this thread focussed on what we SEE, it may help give clarity to what we can be sure we KNOW.

Just trying to separarte urban legends from reality.

[Holt]

I'm just going to answer the question straight: How do we know that? Is there a single shot in the movie that shows D-rings?

I understand why we bring stuff like this info in, but if we can keep this thread focussed on what we SEE, it may help give clarity to what we can be sure we KNOW.

Just trying to separarte urban legends from reality.

I heard this a long time ago. I think _ came with this to the table. way before your time.

[Holt]

no. that scene is one scene. it isnt cut. ou see him from your screen grab moving towards the right in one scene.

Ok, I've had a look, and it's come back to me. There are a few shots of that collar. The one I mentioned above is between where the guy is on the roof to when he jumps in. The one you mention is when he's kicking the other dude that shot him off of the passenger door.

Having said that, they look like the same collar to me, which is a definite mismatch to the 2 main jackets and a match for the BW collar / zip. The yoke seem you point out is a bit vague in this shot. It does look high-ish, but when you take into account the other elements of that specific jacket, it doesn't make sense that it could be one of the other 2.

Bear in mind the shot immediately afterward (taken from the doorway showing the arm wound as he kicks the guy) is of a different jacket entirely.

okay, I updated my post.

yes, there are two jackets with bullet wounds.

one: hawaii jacket and two: the bantu wind ''La rochelle'' jacket.

I see in the truck gag two jackets. maby 3?...two with high yokes ( hawaii and wested hero) and one other jacket which may or may not be the La rocelle bantu wind jacket. hard to make out the details.... but it may be 3 jackets in that scene.. yes..

are we in the same boat?

[Holt]

Maybe... But I think mine is on a soundstage..

I get the collar now. I also think I see where you're getting three jackets in the truck gag. What will lock that for me will be to see when Terry's gag was shot relative to Harrison's footage. If Terry's was after Ford's, then I'm on board. If not, then I have doubts...

Good night...

what Im busting my head against the wall now is this..

the bantu jacket has a bullet wound. you can clearly see the hole in the arm when sallah claps Ford on the shoulder in the first scene filmed. the dockside.

so, seeing the jacket on Terry later in the film, where exactly is that hole? did they patch that hole up too?

[Yojimbo Jones]

okay, I updated my post.

yes, there are two jackets with bullet wounds.

one: hawaii jacket and two: the bantu wind ''La rochelle'' jacket.

I see in the truck gag two jackets. maby 3?...two with high yokes ( hawaii and wested hero) and one other jacket which may or may not be the La rocelle bantu wind jacket. hard to make out the details.... but it may be 3 jackets in that scene.. yes..

are we in the same boat?

Almost.

The 2 jackets I think have bullet wounds are the Hawaii (which as a small slit as seen above), and the Hero, which has a massive hole and backing for the squib. The BW can't be the second with a hole because we see the jacket with the huge hole has a high yoke.

Additionally, they seem to have just used fake blood to simulate the wound (without any slit/hole) in some shots too.

The trick with sorting it all out is working out what features are mutually exclusive and cross-checking.

With the truck gag, you have Leonard in the BW w/low yoke (seen above), and the high-yoked "Hero" which Ford wears being dragged behind the ute (ditto). But we don't know that's a Wested. Where do you think the Hawaii factors into the "under/behind the truck" stuff?

[Yojimbo Jones]

@ _ - The Leonard 2nd unit stunts were shot on Monday September 8.

It wasn't until Saturday September 13 that they shot Ford's truck chase inserts.

[Yojimbo Jones]

what Im busting my head against the wall now is this..

the bantu jacket has a bullet wound. you can clearly see the hole in the arm when sallah claps Ford on the shoulder in the first scene filmed. the dockside.

so, seeing the jacket on Terry later in the film, where exactly is that hole? did they patch that hole up too?

I don't recall noticing it, but I don't see why not. A simple puncture repair kit would do the trick and make it almost invisible amongst the other distressing.

[Holt]

No, I see the hawaii in the truck and hanging from the grill. thats the hawaii jacket. thats the jacket with the big bullethole. at least IMO. I see also what I think is the wested in the truck behind the wheel. dont know if it is the wested, but I just think it really looks like it because of the droopy curled up collar. and look at the bantu wind scene where sallah grabs Ford on his shoulder. you see the slit hole.

[Holt]

you know its never good to bottle stuff up. just email me Todd and get it of your chest

[Yojimbo Jones]

No, I see the hawaii in the truck and hanging from the grill. thats the hawaii jacket. thats the jacket with the big bullethole. at least IMO. I see also what I think is the wested in the truck behind the wheel. dont know if it is the wested, but I just think it really looks like it because of the droopy curled up collar. and look at the bantu wind scene where sallah grabs Ford on his shoulder. you see the slit hole.

In the truck, agreed. Hanging from the grill I think is the "Hero", but didn't think to check the collar of that one too closely. But it's not a "big" hole - just the 1" slit you see in the caps above. Yeah, the "hero" is behind the wheel as well - 3 different jackets are worn behind the wheel.

At La Rochelle, it doesn't necessarily mean much that that jacket was slit open as well. Just means someone with a razor is still terrorising the set.

[Yojimbo Jones]

Agreed: Hawaii = grill/ford = imam/ford

Watched gag in the stunts short. They did seed the road bed with soft dirt before the gag. Am I being stupid thinking the jacket must have been destroyed? Just tryng to call out my own unsupported assumption...

Tempted to stay up all night, down a few red bulls for the dog-n-pony show and have my clock back in sync sooner. WTF...

I still have some "facts" supported by documents that are going to lease "issues"... Thinking I'm gonna keep those to myself. Take them to the grave, so to speak...

I think it would have been ripped up pretty bad on its forearms and back. But we don't see either in the cabin. We only see the scuffed forearms of what I think is the "Hero" jacket - and they have damage consistent with the footage / stills of Ford being drug behind the ute.

Just checked - TL low yoke (BW) jacket falling over bonnet of truck to grill.

NOT the Hawaii jacket on Ford pulling the grill apart before going under. The collar is the Hero, and the pocket is missing the crinkly backing that's on the Hawaii but not the Hero.

[RCSignals]

Agreed: Hawaii = grill/ford = imam/ford

Watched gag in the stunts short. They did seed the road bed with soft dirt before the gag. Am I being stupid thinking the jacket must have been destroyed? Just tryng to call out my own unsupported assumption...

Tempted to stay up all night, down a few red bulls for the dog-n-pony show and have my clock back in sync sooner. WTF...

I still have some "facts" supported by documents that are going to lease "issues"... Thinking I'm gonna keep those to myself. Take them to the grave, so to speak...

I think it would have been ripped up pretty bad on its forearms and back. But we don't see either in the cabin. We only see the scuffed forearms of what I think is the "Hero" jacket - and they have damage consistent with the footage / stills of Ford being drug behind the ute.

Just checked - TL low yoke (BW) jacket falling over bonnet of truck to grill.

NOT the Hawaii jacket on Ford pulling the grill apart before going under. The collar is the Hero, and the pocket is missing the crinkly backing that's on the Hawaii but not the Hero.

In _'s write up of the jacket he examined did he not mention the forearms were ripped/torn/very worn?

[RCSignals]

Which jackets had the d-rings and which jackets had the sliders? (Cooper, Wested, etc.?)

And how did they come to have different fasteners in the first place?

You'd think that they'd want to keep the hardware the same if they're trying to duplicate jackets.

At this point, best to lay aside older information such as this for now.

[Holt]

Agreed: Hawaii = grill/ford = imam/ford

Watched gag in the stunts short. They did seed the road bed with soft dirt before the gag. Am I being stupid thinking the jacket must have been destroyed? Just tryng to call out my own unsupported assumption...

Tempted to stay up all night, down a few red bulls for the dog-n-pony show and have my clock back in sync sooner. WTF...

I still have some "facts" supported by documents that are going to lease "issues"... Thinking I'm gonna keep those to myself. Take them to the grave, so to speak...

I think it would have been ripped up pretty bad on its forearms and back. But we don't see either in the cabin. We only see the scuffed forearms of what I think is the "Hero" jacket - and they have damage consistent with the footage / stills of Ford being drug behind the ute.

Just checked - TL low yoke (BW) jacket falling over bonnet of truck to grill.

NOT the Hawaii jacket on Ford pulling the grill apart before going under. The collar is the Hero, and the pocket is missing the crinkly backing that's on the Hawaii but not the Hero.

I did some work today with more screen grabs and yes, the grill jacket is the ''hero'' jacket. the jacket what I call the wested hero. it is the same jacket he has one when he fights the mechanic. I have tons of pictures to illustrate.

and TL has the BW jacket on when going thru the windshield...

good work yoyojimmi

[crismans]

I'm following this on my phone so I easily could have missed this point, but I don't believe that the hawaii jacket is the squib shot. Tony had that jacket and didn't mention that detail. He did mention a tear but not big squib hole.

Plus, I've seen YJ's evidence for the other "hero" being squibbed and it is very compelling

[Raskolnikov]

I am amazed by the amount of work and hours you guys are spending digging for all this information. Thanks for sharing it. Great pics and investigation, Yohimbo.

Regards,
Rask

[Yojimbo Jones]

Thanks Rask. Just trying to strip things back to basics and have a fresh look at what we have in front of us.

[Indiana Jake]

I'm trying to follow this jacket thread, and I might add something.

IMO One good reason for switching out the jackets in the truck scene has to do with squib rigging. I was once rigged for a squib in a History Channel show. What an ordeal! A leather patch is placed underneath the squib, and if I recall correctly, a small metal plate was placed on top of the patch and under the squib. This is done to protect the actor from the tiny charge. Duct tape was used to hold things in place. The wires were attached to the squib and run out through and under my clothing to conceal the wire. The squib was placed up against the blood pack. The blood pack was basically a condom filled fake blood. I'm sure there are many recipes, but I do recall someone using corn syrup, red food coloring and a little soap. The squib is some tiny micro explosive that is detonated once electrical power is applied. Now the effects guy attaches one wire to a power source (battery?) The other connection is made once the gunfire cue is made and the squib blasts! What a mess!

The first thing that happens after someone yells cut! is the actor removing the squib rig and the jacket. Time to continue shooting with another un-rigged jacket to save time and keep shooting. This may also explain that Making of Raiders photo (video?) of Harrison with the blood stained shirt sleeve between takes during truck chase shooting. I do not have a photographic memory, but I recall a small hole cut in the sleeve for what may have been made for the squib wires. Depending on the situation, the fabric or leather may be pre-distressed to help the blood release and spray out once the charge is applied. Next time, watch your next favorite film in slow motion backwards, and watch the squib holes heal up. You will almost always see a lump in the fabric before the charge goes off. If you've ever seen Peckinpah's The Wild Bunch you can really see what I'm talking about.

I'm no expert here, and I wasn't there. I'm just trying to speculate based on my own experience and some common sense.

Indiana Jake

[Yojimbo Jones]

Ok, thowing this up here so it's all together because it relates to the zip gap stuff above, and ties into _'s thread here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46826&start=100

[HWaltonJonesJr.Phd]

YJ


Just want to say thanks for all the time and WORK it took to do this.

I am sure I speak for a lot of folks who waste a lot of time reading these threads...

great stuff

H