Continued from "Scrapbook" - Denim Jacket

[kiltie]

Relative to posts near the end of this page:

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... &start=400



Just thought I'd pick up the topic here. I see no pleat and possibly a seam running around the cuff. Anyone else care to add? Another jacket for the Screen Accurate Enthusiast? Same jacket worn in the Bantu Wind sequence?

Anyway - just a little sumpin'....

***special thanks to enigmata_wood and his post in "Scrapbook"

[Texan Scott]

I think that when alphared6 was new on the boards, he 'busted out' by disclosing that Ford told him that the jacket he went into the river with, was chased by the Hovitos was a cotton type jacket, because it held fullers earth better than a leather jacket. To me, it made sense because he was also about to go into the river.

[Castor Dioscuri]

Seams around the cuffs? Hey, maybe this finally answers the question of where Drew Struzan got his inspiration for his 'other' Indy jacket!

[kiltie]

I think that when alphared6 was new on the boards, he 'busted out' by disclosing that Ford told him that the jacket he went into the river with, was chased by the Hovitos was a cotton type jacket, because it held fullers earth better than a leather jacket. To me, it made sense because he was also about to go into the river.

Yeah, I remember that, too. I posted this because it looked like Holt had some concern about the relevance of e_w's post in the Scrapbook section.
This ( the picture at the top ) is the best picture of the jacket from that sequence that I've yet seen posted. It seemed like it deserved a thread of it's own, especially considering the claim of a cloth material jacket is not exactly common knowledge to all. Also, I don't recall there being anything about it on the main page. I know there was some speculation as to it possibly being the "mock-up", but then, as you can see, no pleat, and that apparently odd cuff. Plus, there's been little else beyond Ford's recollection ( from what I remember reading ). If people want to take that as gospel, that's fine. I'm inclined to believe it, as well. BUT... there are a lot of others who insist on corroberation, and rightfully so. The memories of the costume designer, the jacket maker, etc...have all been called into question in the past, but it seems that in the matter of the cloth jacket, a lot of folks tend to take it at face value.
All said, I'm just kinda trying to make a start at "the definative cloth jacket from the 'Running-From-the-Hovitos-Then-Jumping-in-the-Water Sequence' thread".

[Texan Scott]

If I'm not mistaken, the supposed cloth jacket was made, pre-Leather Concessionaires. This may explain one reason why you might not see any action pleats on the 'cloth jacket'. I've wondered if it was the supposed, 'cloth mock-up'? Supposition.

[RCSignals]

If you do a search this was discussed in some length a few times.
Apparently it is a cloth mock up jacket that was made by Western Costumes before the movie crew and production team left for England.
_ will probably chime in.

In the photo above it kind of looks more like a heavy brown shirt.

[kiltie]

Indeed, I remember the discussions, just not reading anything that could be called conclusive. My recollection, in any event. I can't remember anything about the mock-up being called definative, and if this is the case, why's it not mentioned on the main page.
Can anyone offer any insight as to the construction of the so called "mock-up"? Would it have been able to withstand the apparent abuse of this sequence? I have this picture in my head of straight pins and tailor's chalk...
If it's not the mock-up, not part of the "three orders", then...? It's not exactly "a wart on my fanny" as Tom Regan would say, "...giving (me) the fidgets" . Mainly just idle curiosity. I'm hip to the way the search function works. If you don't wanna talk about it, no skin off my nose.

[Texan Scott]

Just going from memory, it seems it was made by Western Costumes, if memory doesn't fail me.

[alphared6]

I think that when alphared6 was new on the boards, he 'busted out' by disclosing that Ford told him that the jacket he went into the river with, was chased by the Hovitos was a cotton type jacket, because it held fullers earth better than a leather jacket. To me, it made sense because he was also about to go into the river.

What was interesting in my conversation with HF was that he was oblivious and rather indifferent about the costuming. I began the discussion about the jacket with a question based on an argument I had had with a friend (I was not "into" indy stuff at the time of my phone call w/HF) I insisted that the jacket was a pre-WWII Navy pilots jacket, he said it was not. Obviously I lost that disagreement! HF told me he didn't know the first thing about the jacket other than that they had had several made based on the designers concept. Ford told me of the rack of jackets, of how there were continuity checks for distressing the jackets... I asked about the jacket he wore while running from the natives, I told him it didn't look like leather, he told me it was not, he didn't mention fullers earth, but said that the jacket was cloth for the jumping in the river portion, to prevent him being dragged down by the weight of his cloths.

[kiltie]

Thanks, alpha.
Just to be clear, I'm certainly not openly disputing the claim that the jacket is cloth*, and maybe that's where I crossed my lines with RC. I'm just wondering if anyone had ever come up with anything concrete as to the jacket's origins.


*conversely, I wouldn't be shocked to find it was actually leather, either. It certainly looks to be made of cloth, but I'll bet I'd find that if I took the liner out of a Wested and dropped it in the tub for a couple of minutes, it would cling similarly.

[alphared6]

Kiltie:
No sweaty-da. I had no idea of the degree of interest, or detail, people had in this film until I found this site. After I had read a vast number of posts I thought my conversation with ford would be of interest.

Seems he called me from Montana. He'd been offered a script in a movie where in which he'd portray a sergeant in the 45th Infantry Division in WWII and he was researching the history (that in and of itself I found interesting). I learned years latter that this script mutated into "Saving Pvt Ryan." Not sure that's true but I understand that movie scripts can and do change a great deal from concept to final production.

Mike

[gwyddion]

Didn't _ ask this (meaning the cloth jacket) and had it confirmed when he had some kind of meeting with Ford? I seem to remember a thread on this a while back

Regards, Geert

[kiltie]

Yeah... Now that you mention it, I do remember something about that. When _ was out and showed him the film, right?
Well, there you go: two people getting the cloth jacket story from Mr. Ford. So if that stands up ( meaning no one is interested in another source ), I guess my only question would be: is it ( the Hovitos jacket ) the mock-up? Or was it something specially made for the sequence. Or, less likely - but still possible I suppose - a "found object", seeing as how it doesn't seem to be part of any of the jacket orders. Again, it strikes me as odd that it would be the mock-up, at least the way I'm imagining it. I gather from the rest of the information provided, that the mock-up ultimately became the property of B&N...Is that right? Once they scored "the" jacket, why would they keep the mock-up around.
Seems odd that if they'd foreseen the need for a lighter coat for the water that they'd use the mock-up, as they'd need to dig it up from wherever it was hiding after it's initial presentation. Further, it seems unlikely, to me, that the director would have the foresight to say,"Hey, we're gonna need something that the dust is really gonna cling to in this sequence, so that when we do the wide shot, you can see the cloud coming off. Fellas, I just don't think leather's gonna do it. Somebody get me that mock-up. That should do the trick."
I'm inclined to think the "water" jacket was used experimentally in the running scene, and less a matter of premeditation... Anywho...I wonder who'd know. Prop master, wardrobe, costume designer....? Funny how, as little as it matters, and as much as I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it, how these questions kind of niggle and morph into lengthy exchanges. Someone should start a forum dedicated to this stuff.

[RCSignals]

_ has commented on this before and I think stated who talked about it.

seeing as how it doesn't seem to be part of any of the jacket orders.

Has anyone ever actually seen these orders, Purchase Orders etc? Information on them might av4e some detail, and might not.

[Texan Scott]

Did not DN have the jacket with her when she went to England? It might have just been around. Also, the Hawaii sequences were some of the last to be filmed.