Has anyone tried Todd's deluxe whips???

IndyinExton · Post by **IndyinExton** » Mon May 19, 2008 1:22 pm

Anyone try these yet? How do they compare with some of the other mid-range whips listed in this forum?
http://www.toddscostumes.com/indy/whips ... e_whip.htm

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Mon May 19, 2008 1:37 pm

I ordered one 40 days ago, but never received. Todd, have you sent my parcel (order 2639)???

:

IndyinExton · Post by **IndyinExton** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:00 pm

"I ordered one 40 days ago, but never received. Todd, have you sent my parcel (order 2639)???"

I know right now he is behind on those, due to the demand. I'd email him with your order number to check though. He's very good about responding to inquiries.

I was just curious as to how they stack up to other mid-range whips.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:54 pm

from what I hear - from Todd's own mouth no less - these whips really don't compare. They're a great looking replica and you could do a couple cracks with them if asked to, but they aren't made to stand up to the punishment the other mid-range whips would take. If you're looking for a costume, look no further. Anything else and you'd be better off with an IOAB or a purewhips whip. -M

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Thu May 29, 2008 7:17 am

It's almost 2 months I ordered this whip from Todd, but never received whip or news. No email from Todd. I understand he's very busy, ok, but I spent a lot of money...

Magnum Jones · Post by **Magnum Jones** » Thu May 29, 2008 7:48 am

If you look on Todds website there is a 10 week wait on whips.

It looks like he has been very busy. He is sold out on alot of things.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Thu May 29, 2008 9:57 am

Magnum Jones wrote:If you look on Todds website there is a 10 week wait on whips.

It looks like he has been very busy. He is sold out on alot of things.

Yes, you're right Magnum, thanks. I'll wait again...

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Thu May 29, 2008 6:01 pm

Got an email from Todd today stating that the whips should arrive the middle of next week and will start going out.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:39 pm

Thanks scot!

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:56 pm

Received a message from Todd: my whip is finally on the way, shipped yesterday!!

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:31 pm

Recieved my Todd's Costume prop whip today. It looks and feels great. This is my first whip of this quality, I had a whip I picked up at a flea market when I was 12 or 13, it cost $5.00 and had a real crappy core and was 6' long. A couple things I have noticed already and I am curious about is it only wants to coil one way, is this common for a new whip and as it gets used will it relax and coil either way? Also the "butt" seems kinda big. Any way I really like it as mine will probably be used for costuming and display only so here are a few pictures.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:49 pm

don't go against the natural coiling of the whip.

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:53 pm

Indiana G wrote:don't go against the natural coiling of the whip.

Thanks did not know and I will be sure to only coil it the way it wants to go.

indyfyfe · Post by **indyfyfe** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:21 pm

I have a Todd's whip also. Couldn't be happier unless I had a DM...

Brad

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:23 pm

indyfyfe wrote:I have a Todd's whip also. Couldn't be happier unless I had a DM...

Brad

That is an awesome Indy display fyfe. I like that alot.

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:00 pm

I just got off the phone with with a CS rep from Todd Costumes regarding the recent deluxe Indy whip bottom knot. I explained to her the shape of the bottom knot, stating it looked like a large marshmellow, and not the way it should look or the way the ones that were shipped out earlier in the year looked. She was very polite and asked if I wanted to return it. I explained that I would like to exchange it if they had others that had a more correct looking bottom knot. She looked at several others that were currently in inventory and they all have the "large marshmellow" bottom knot. She even said that they were very different from Todd's original whip. She explained that Todd is no longer making them do to how time consuming they are so the whip is now being outsourced. I asked how long I had to determine if I wanted to return the whip and she stated that as long is wasn't used or abused "a couple of months." She stated that she was writing a note for Todd to look into the whips as he was not in the office at the time of our conversation.

indyfyfe · Post by **indyfyfe** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:20 pm

" That is an awesome Indy display fyfe. I like that alot.

"

Thanks Sott.

Brad

Bardoon · Post by **Bardoon** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:41 pm

*whew* makes me glad I cancelled my order as those huge Marshmallow bottom knots look TERRIBLE! The original whips look much better but there's no excuse for that shape!

Did Todd get prototypes? Did the factory suddenly switch it on him?

That's really bizarre...I'd return that whip!!!

classicbullwhips · Post by **classicbullwhips** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:12 am

Ya that butt knot was the first thing that I noticed when I saw your whip, not to pick but the other thing that I saw was in one of the shots you took, it looks like the diamond handle plat is not completely square/diamond shape it looks a little long stranded. But despite those two things that I saw it looks like it would be a good indy replica whip.

Keep Cracking

James

HigHurtenflurst · Post by **HigHurtenflurst** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:37 pm

I just got my Todd whip today, and I'm pretty impressed! I'm not a super-accomplished whipslinger by any means, and I can't compare it to the real expensive whips, but it'll do a pretty mean over-arm crack. It seems lively and responsive, and to my amateur eye the construction seems all right. And the knot, which seems over-large in the photos above feels and looks OK in person.

I'm quite happy with it!

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:07 pm

From the picture it looks like there's something weird going on at the butt of the whip between the two ends of the wrist loop. I"m not sure what it is...but my eye is drawn to it. scot2525, could you take a picture of the end of the butt?

I'm just curious if it is what I think it is.

xoxo

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:00 pm

louiefoxx wrote:From the picture it looks like there's something weird going on at the butt of the whip between the two ends of the wrist loop. I"m not sure what it is...but my eye is drawn to it. scot2525, could you take a picture of the end of the butt?

I'm just curious if it is what I think it is.

xoxo

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

Ask and you shall recieve.

I really do not want to return the whip outright, I would really like to exchange it but my conversation with the Todd's cust. serv. rep led me to believe that all the whips had this style bottom knot. If any other members have recieved their whips from this shipment please post your pics so we can compare.

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:25 pm

Wow, that's not what I expected it to look like. That bottom part shouldn't have a hole in it like that. You might want to exchange it for one that's not damaged or get a couple of bucks back (just my opinion).

xoxo

Louie

indyfyfe · Post by **indyfyfe** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:24 pm

That's strange...mine looks like the pic on his website. I wonder if the outsourced whip makers are cheating a little?? I like mine a lot!!!

Brad

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:50 pm

I spoke with Todd this evening and I will be sending the whip back to be exchanged. He states that he has a couple whips that the bottom knots are are a little more round than the one I recieved.

The customer service I have recieved from Todd's has been outstanding. They have responded to emails and phone calls almost instantaniously. Customer service is very important to me as I am a cs manager and I know how quickly situations or issues can go wrong.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:02 pm

Hey, all!

First off, I'm sorry scot2525 that you got that whip with a hole in it. I should have seen that when packing it up. As we discussed, we're going to exchange that for you.

Secondly, I think the photos shown here are not that flattering an angle. Here is a picture of a random sampling I pulled off the shelf. There are 15 whips here. As you can see, since the knobs are hand formed from a leather roll, there are variations.

And you can also see that when viewed from a different angle, they don't look so bad.

I measured the knobs in the photo and found the smallest to be 1.58" and the largest to be 1.9". The actual size Sergei measured on the Raiders whip was 1.7". The average of all of the knobs here is 1.68". I'd say the factory did a pretty good job of following my specs. I know everyone will have their preference and opinions about whip knobs, but these are not far off. On the next run we will make sure the shape is a little more "egg" shaped, and that the diamonds on the handle plaits are more square - just a little is all that is needed.

And now for a disclaimer - these whips are not for the perfectionist. You have to pay more for that.

And now for the announcement - if you'd like a particular knob size/shape, just ask and we'll sort through our stock and find one you'll like.

Second announcement - price reduction. Since these whips aren't up to the standards of our own in-shop made whips, we are going to offer these for a reduced price - $149. We will still offer our in-shop whips at $199.
For those of you who paid $199 for these factory whips, just drop me an e-mail and we'll refund the difference.

I hope you'll agree that it's a good deal for a 12 plait indy-style whip.

Also, a 10 footer is on the way FYI.

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:39 pm

Puppetboy wrote:Hey, all!

First off, I'm sorry scot2525 that you got that whip with a hole in it. I should have seen that when packing it up. As we discussed, we're going to exchange that for you.

Secondly, I think the photos shown here are not that flattering an angle. Here is a picture of a random sampling I pulled off the shelf. There are 15 whips here. As you can see, since the knobs are hand formed from a leather roll, there are variations.

And you can also see that when viewed from a different angle, they don't look so bad.

I measured the knobs in the photo and found the smallest to be 1.58" and the largest to be 1.9". The actual size Sergei measured on the Raiders whip was 1.7". The average of all of the knobs here is 1.68". I'd say the factory did a pretty good job of following my specs. I know everyone will have their preference and opinions about whip knobs, but these are not far off. On the next run we will make sure the shape is a little more "egg" shaped, and that the diamonds on the handle plaits are more square - just a little is all that is needed.

And now for a disclaimer - these whips are not for the perfectionist. You have to pay more for that.

And now for the announcement - if you'd like a particular knob size/shape, just ask and we'll sort through our stock and find one you'll like.

Second announcement - price reduction. Since these whips aren't up to the standards of our own in-shop made whips, we are going to offer these for a reduced price - $149. We will still offer our in-shop whips at $199.
For those of you who paid $199 for these factory whips, just drop me an e-mail and we'll refund the difference.

I hope you'll agree that it's a good deal for a 12 plait indy-style whip.

Also, a 10 footer is on the way FYI.

I was actually very happy with the whip when it arrived, "giddy as a schoolboy"

, then a few members started pointing out the bottom knot and a few "bagging on it

. I dropped the whip off at FedEx this morning and you should have it back before noon tomorrow.

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:01 pm

My replacement whip arrived this morning and it looks much better. I will post some pics when I get home this evening.

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:12 pm

Took the whip outside tonight and made my first attempts at whipcracking as an adult. I achieved a few "wipper snapper" cracks but mostly alot of "thwip" or "blat". My right shoulder is not real happy with me and I a gave myself a welt on my right ear. I need to watch ALOT more video on youtube and maybe purchase a DVD on this art. On to the pics of my replacement whip.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:42 am

l think that LOOKS very nice. does Todd do those 8' or 10'?....has anyone ever compared its performance to a real mccoy?....i know, probably been covered in another thread but i'm tired after hockey and feeling quite lazy...

[edit]: i see that he only offers 8' lengths

....come on todd, give us a 10' jacka replica....for say 89.99?

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:29 pm

He has a 10' on the way Indiana G.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:25 pm

My Todds Deluxe is finally here: I'm a little disappointed, the whip is very low quality, loose here and there, and broken in one point. I paid 199 for this, and Todd said me he'll refund me 50$.

Anyway here's the pic, after a little "distressing" with black shoe cream.

Bardoon · Post by **Bardoon** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:57 pm

scot2525 wrote:Took the whip outside tonight and made my first attempts at whipcracking as an adult. I achieved a few "wipper snapper" cracks but mostly alot of "thwip" or "blat". My right shoulder is not real happy with me and I a gave myself a welt on my right ear. I need to watch ALOT more video on youtube and maybe purchase a DVD on this art. On to the pics of my replacement whip.

Hey scot, your new whip looks much better!

However, if you're going to get into the art of whipcracking you might want to get a whip that is built for it. I remember Todd mentioning that you can do cracks with his whip but ultimately it is best used for costuming purposes. Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong!!!

Perhaps a IOAB whip might suit that desire.

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:13 pm

Adam has stated he will still make a 12 plait cowhide for COW members, you just need to be patient. If I upgrade my whip anytime soon it would be a cowhide 8' 12 plait from Adam or an 8' 12 plait "saddle tan" Indy whip from Lauren at midwestern whips.com. IOAB doesn't fit the bill for me based only on the look of a 4 plait whip.

Regarding Todd's whip, it is a very nice looking whip that has some functionality to it and at the current $149.00 pricepoint it is a very good deal. Todd may want to consider keeping the whips he sells on his website "in house" and maybe offering the factory whips on ebay or other auction websites.

The braiding on the new whip is not very tight, you can actually see the black "rubber core". I have had it outside for several days in a row working on some cracks and can now get some "gun shot" sounds with it. I am right handed and I can get the whip to crack pretty easy with a side arm or 3/4 "throwing motion". I can do the overhead crack with some work if I start out with a clockwise motion over my head and then come across my body with a snap of the wrist and elbow. I have achieved one crack starting with a counterclockwise movement and it was uncomfortably close to my left ear. The overhead cracks are the ones that really put the strain on my right shoulder.

Boggstandard · Post by **Boggstandard** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:15 pm

Caveat Emptor !!!

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:43 pm

Boggstandard wrote:Caveat Emptor !!!

I would not go as far as stating , "Buyer be aware", it is a very nice whip for the price and gives a great look for the Raiders look as several members pics show.

Boggstandard · Post by **Boggstandard** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:24 pm

As I read through this thread, I believe the injunction "Buyer Beware" is fully sustained.

But then, I am a whip enthusiast who values form, function, and quality.

While I respect your quest for screen accuracy at a modest price, I have a different, but not better, agenda.

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:39 pm

Ok first off let me say that Im a Sword collector/enthusiast first..... the whip stuff is really new to me...

BUT
I have been in the sword world for half my life....
As Im sure many have seen on EBay or in flea markets... you can buy some REALLY cheap swords...... some are even $15 or less.....
these are called "WALLHANGERS"...... and as the name would suggest, they are meant to be HUNG on a WALL.
However, regardless of this obvious name, there are STILL people who take their $9 swords out and try to cut stuff.... what happens?

THIS: http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmRUaxq-QhU

I swear..... some folks are just ALWAYS trying to iceskate uphill....

Im NOT knocking Todd's whip..... from the get-go, its very obvious what it was designed for: costuming... and for that, yes, it looks VERY GOOD...... 100000 times better than those cheap Rubies costume whips..... but i mean cmon folks.... why are we out "trying to crack" something that isnt designed to be?

This just confuses me......

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:32 pm

Hey, all!

I appreciate reading your discussion about these whips. I realize now that I need to re-word my website description. I have had customers fully expect a perfect high-performance whip for $149. I've had a few returns from customers who were disappointed they didn't get a Joe Strain. Many who visit this board have extremely high expectations of EVERYTHING they buy and will not tolerate second rate even if it is $149. Guys are calling me complaining that the whip is so crappy the cracker flew off after only two weeks of heavy use!

It is a costume whip that to the average Joe looks and feels like the real thing. As a bonus, it can be cracked - sparingly. If you really want a whip to crack - you need to look elsewhere.

We are going to continue making our own whips for $199, and you can expect much better usage from them.

To be honest, this is our first experience with this vendor. They gave us 90% of what we wanted. The next round will be improved, I am sure. Most customers have been very happy with them, but a few have pointed out a number of small flaws that bother them. For this reason I am considering another drop in price on these. I don't want people unhappy with what they get from me.

Okay, this first run of whips we'll sell for $99. We'll just chalk it up to experience. That's just the breaks sometimes when you outsource things. If you got your whip after June 1, just e-mail me and we will send you the refund. Hopefully, the next run will have these problems ironed out so I don't have to sell them so cheap!

hollywood1340 · Post by **hollywood1340** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:00 am

I have to hand to to them, a stand up company with customer service the highest priority. That's rarer these days. If I'm ever in the market for a costume whip, I know where to go. Kudos!

Shawnkara · Post by **Shawnkara** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:04 am

Puppetboy wrote:Guys are calling me complaining that the whip is so crappy the cracker flew off after only two weeks of heavy use!

That's just what crackers do!!!

Falls, too for that matter. They're "disposable" components. That's why it's a single, plain detatchable strip of leather and a piece of nylon

I wouldn't let complaints like those get you down, Todd. "Those" guys just seem to me like they don't understand the mechanics/construction of a whip to start with.

It seems to me the urethane core would be problematic. I work with various grades of urethane casting/mold compounds, they just not designed to move past the speed of sound. It was a cool idea, though and was worth trying. How do you know something doesn't work if you don't try it? I assume the main point of a cast core was to save production time, thereby lowering cost to the consumer. Here's a couple ideas off the top of my head:

Find a source for fairly decent (interms of leather) whips and use those as cores. Just plait right over them. Granted, this will still not be pro-quality, but it's closer to actual bullwhip construction than a rubber core.

Find a whip maker (plenty here) who would be willing to make ONLY the core/handle foundation for you. Should be fairly inexpensive, more so if you provide the hide. Some larger shops have apprentices, and that would be a great way for those guys and gals to perfect the art of rolling/plaiting a core.

Again, just off the top of my head with three hours' sleep to back it up

Hope it might help in some small way, though.

Also, and no offense intended, but you really need to crack down on that factory about those Turk's knots. They look like they're plaited over little coffee cans.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:20 pm

It seems to me the urethane core would be problematic

Actually, the problems we have had have not been from the cores. Unless there is a major flaw in the casting, they hold up great (so far). The beauty is that the urethane core at the tip tapers to a very thin point and it very elastic. The work at the tip is being done by the leather. In a all-leather whip, the outer plait is all there is for the last foot or two anyway (no core down there) so it's the same situation.

Also, and no offense intended, but you really need to crack down on that factory about those Turk's knots. They look like they're plaited over little coffee cans.

I'm working with them on that, though in person they really don't look that bad. The overall effect is good. They've already promised that they will change the shape, but you never know until you open the shipping box if they've done it or not.

indyfyfe · Post by **indyfyfe** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:14 pm

Puppetboy wrote: Okay, this first run of whips we'll sell for $99.

Are you saying you'll be selling your first run for $99?

I have one of your first run that I paid $199 for and I think it's worth every penny. I tried to crack it...to no avail (I'm just not experienced).

I would buy another for $99!!!!

Brad

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:57 pm

If you recieved one of these factory whips which shipped after 6/1 you can get a refund taking the price to $99.00, if you purchased one of the whips he made "in house" the $199.00 pricepoint still stands. If you order any of his remaining whips from the first factory run it can be purchased for $99.00. I was told by a CS rep at Todd's, it may have been Chrissy, that he didn't make the whips anymore as it was to time consuming but I believe he stated in this thread that he would make a whip if a buyer request it.

Dengar · Post by **Dengar** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:53 am

If I order my $199 deluxe whip now will I be billed when I order it or when it ships? And what is the current wait time for the deluxe whip? 10 weeks?

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:44 pm

After re-reading this tread, I find it very confusing, especially for someone who is reading it for the first time.

I have 2 whips:

"Prop whip": that's the one being discussed here, the one with the cylindrical-ish knobs. The one with the hole in the end (a flaw in that particular whip). These started out being called "deluxe" whips because that's what I expected them to be, but after some experience with them we downgraded them to "Prop Whips". These are the one I don't recommend extended cracking with. I'm currently sold out of these.

"Deluxe Whips": These are made here by us. Higher quality, made to be cracked. So far there have been no issues with performance or durability (that I recall). Very high quality industrial urethane (used to make machine parts and rollers) is used for the cores - more solid than any leather core could be (sorry, it's just physics - the core is one solid piece). Because of this, the whips have a lot of energy. The leather is special goat hide we have made for this purpose. It is pre-dyed and finished. The knobs are nice and rounded. These are not meant to be the pinnacle of the whipmaker's art with old-world craftmanship. They are good-looking, 12 plait, practical whips for a reasonable price. The steps we've taken to simplify the whip making process don't (I believe) compromise the finished product.

I need to correct myself - I can remember one customer service issue with the deluxe whips. A kid claimed that the knob fell off while he was cracking it. I suspect he was swinging on it but wouldn't admit it.

We are up to date on production of these whips, and soon we will have a stock of them on hand for immediate delivery. Those of you who have been waiting will have your whip very soon.

Todd

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:25 pm

Hi Todd,
though Im not so much a costumer than a whipmaker and whipcracker, I do get what you're trying to accomplish with these whips. I reckon if it's reasonably strong (the loose knobs and what not), and has a decent lifespan, then you're doing all right in my book mate.

Would I prefer a prop to a real working whip? No. I wouldn't. But then, I don't expect a real whip to cost $200 either so... AND my needs are for a working whip that can be cracked for years and years. But that's just me.

I think as long as you are clear about what you are selling, and that it's a fair deal, then it's a case of buyer's choice and I'm sure if one uses these whips for costume purposes, they will be great and last a long time too.

However (yes, here it comes), in your last post you mentionned something about the cores of your whips being stronger than ANY leather whip because they are made from a single piece of urethane. Well I'm not going to harp on you over that, because I do understand the ESSENCE of what you were trying to say, so I won't stand on words. But I will say this, the reason a well-made leather whip with plaited bellies is as good as it is, is in fact, because the core is NOT a single piece. Just look up David Morgan's explanation of flexural stress with the use of the "Slinky" example, and you'll get what I mean. Like I said I am not in the least offended or taking this badly. I hear ya mate. But I would warn against making that sort of statements; it's not necessary to sell your product and sometimes less is more... doesn't leave you as open to smartty-pants comments like mine hehehe.

Anyhow, all the best mate.
Take care,

Franco

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:33 pm

Franco,

Thanks for the comments. Actually, what I said is that the core is more solid, because it is one piece. Not necessarily superior.

If you're looking for energy tranferrence, it would be interesting to compare the flexural stress and elasticity of leather versus flexible urethane.

Todd

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:40 am

Todd,
you know I was going to write this very explicit post about what I meant and this that and the other, but I decided to keep it short and sweet instead:

I mean you no ill-will and I wish you well. I think it's wonderful that folks who are not into whipcracking but who do want a decent costume prop have you to turn to.
All the best,

Franco

hollywood1340 · Post by **hollywood1340** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:29 am

Todd,
Would you recommend your deluxe whip to those looking for a primary whip in the art of whip cracking? In other words a whip to be used "hard" as many of us do? It seems certainly to be an attractive alternative.