One hat for all occasions?

Jack Flanders · Post by **Jack Flanders** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:11 pm

Set aside the fact that different hats were used in the making of the movies. Are we to assume that Indy only had one hat? Or that he had a hat for civilization and one for adventure? I don't remember seeing him travel with any hat boxes.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:17 pm

I always thought so.

Consider the fact that almost every town in his day had 3 or 4 hat shops that specialized in hat cleaning, reblocking and the like. When I was growing up, there were 2 in MY hometown up to the mid 60's before finally closing their doors.

So, considering the quality and availability of good felt hats at the time, they COULD stand several rebuilds, and constant service...so many men only OWNED one hat....or at the most two....one for every day wear, and the other for church.

That's what my Dad did.

Regards! Michaelson

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:30 pm

He could have just carried a hat brush

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:13 pm

Also, take into consideration that hats weren't that important back in the day. For fashion, yes. Men didn't leave the house without one, but I mean important in terms of value. They were in abundance, and you could get one wherever you wanted. If a hat was ruined, it wasn't that big of a deal, because it could be replaced. A good hat was just that, a good hat, and you would have it cleaned and serviced every so often or when it needed it, but if it finally died on you, it wasn't a catastrophe, because it was easily replaceable. Not like if someone's modern day AB had something happen to it. The two reactions just wouldn't be the same.

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:16 pm

Of course he had 2. One gray and one brown!

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:33 pm

Oh lordie!

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:39 pm

You can hide under the Plymouth with me, Strider!

Regards! Michaelson

bleyd · Post by **bleyd** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:00 pm

Guess I'll be going under with the two of yous. I think he had two hats as well for the same reason.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:04 pm

Bring sandwiches, bleyd. I already have the coffee perking....

Regards! Michaelson

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:08 pm

NO GRAY/GREY HATS!!!!!!!!

Fedora

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:46 pm

I strongly believe Indy had only one hat, though I have no evidence to prove it. I just think he did...

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:48 pm

Actually, Indy did have two hats: the one in YIJC & the hat in the original IJ movies.

conceited_ape · Post by **conceited_ape** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:21 pm

...which brings me to chime in. I've heard of bad continuity but my god why was the YIJC hat so bloody terrible?!

VP · Post by VP » Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:17 am

No it wasn't.

Nice ToD pinch with a wide brim and not much taper.

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:38 am

It's 2006 and I'm a long time away from The Golden Era, and I have at least 4 fedoras. Two I've set aside for Coppertop and Harry. Now if I have more then one, it's a safe assumption that a man of that calaber had at least two.

... and I'm still working on my theory on whether the Sea Plalne fedora was Gray or Brown.

(Gray is a Color, Grey is someone's last name.)

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:47 am

conceited_ape wrote:...which brings me to chime in. I've heard of bad continuity but my god why was the YIJC hat so bloody terrible?!

It always looked odd to me too. I remember seeing a few episodes where the hat looked as if he had it on backwards. The back was higher than the front and it never really looked right. It looks too big for the shape of his face. The front pinch looks like it was done by accident while picking it up, it is so vague.

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:17 pm

It appears that the "gray" varient appeared later, as an American
English varient of "grey". Both have mostly the same many meanings:

"gray1 also grey ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gr)
adj. gray·er, also grey·er gray·est, grey·est
Of or relating to an achromatic color of any lightness between the
extremes of black and white.

Dull or dark: a gray, rainy afternoon.
Lacking in cheer; gloomy: a gray mood.

Having gray hair; hoary.
Old or venerable.
Intermediate in character or position, as with regard to a subjective
matter: the gray area between their differing opinions on the film's
morality.

n.
An achromatic color of any lightness between the extremes of black and
white.
An object or animal of the color gray.
often Gray
A member of the Confederate Army in the Civil War.
The Confederate Army. "

Dictionary.com
[ http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gray ]

So yes, "grey" is a color, and was always so. Us Americans had to go
and be different with "gray."

A few meanings are unique, however, to the "gray" varient. For
example:

"gray
n. Abbr. Gy
The SI unit for the energy absorbed from ionizing radiation, equal to
one joule per kilogram."

Dictionary.com
[ http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gray ]

You might also find these links interesting:
[ http://flakmag.com/misc/grey.html ]

"Gray" is the American spelling. "Grey" is the British spelling."
[ http://www.artlex.com/ArtLex/g/gray.html ]

Search terms:

Dictonary
grey gray spelling

TR

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:52 pm

...ah, so if you buy a grey hat from Herbert Johnson and ship it to the states, you open the box to find a gray hat. The magic of shipping.

mark seven · Post by **mark seven** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:55 pm

It is definately grey, here in the UK.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:53 pm

conceited_ape wrote:...which brings me to chime in. I've heard of bad continuity but my god why was the YIJC hat so bloody terrible?!

rick5150 wrote: It always looked odd to me too. I remember seeing a few episodes where the hat looked as if he had it on backwards. The back was higher than the front and it never really looked right. It looks too big for the shape of his face. The front pinch looks like it was done by accident while picking it up, it is so vague.

My opinion doesn’t count (because I think even the Raiders hat looks stupid), but that young Indiana Jones hat is stinky. I didn’t know Indiana Jones was supposed to be a hillbilly from the Appellation Mountains

. Life’s too short to have only one hat (and having 10 versions of the same hat doesn’t count). If you can get your hands on more than one, go for it. Cheers

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:21 pm

Rundquist: Why do you think the Jones hat looks stupid?

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:51 pm

Renderking Fisk wrote:Rundquist: Why do you think the Jones hat looks stupid?

That's a good question. As an Indiana Jones fan it sounds almost like sacrilege. At one time (in my own case), it would have been. I just got to the point where I like “slick” looking hats. What’s “slick”, is subjective of course. But the Indy hat has three things going against it as far as my own tastes go.

It’s tall as heck. I’ve heard many people on the boards talk about their first Indy hat experience. Most of them say “At first I thought it was too tall”. That’s because it is too tall. The Indiana Jones hat is too tall for most people. There are actually only a few guys out there that need a hat to be that tall to balance their face.

The Indy hat has a raw edge. That to me is like an unfinished fedora. I don’t care for the dimensional cut either, especially when it’s been done badly.

Lastly I don’t really like brown for a fedora. I like gray or blue. When I give my opinion, it’s not to make fun of anyone (beyond saying you’re all wearing a hat that I don’t dig). I’m just putting out an opposing viewpoint on the board. I realize that some might become agitated by my opinion.

And that doesn’t mean that I want Indiana Jones wearing a different hat if and when there’s a new movie. I’m a fan. And it’s too late for that now anyway. Cheers

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:48 pm

Maybe Spielberg can CGI the grey hat to brown to make it like he's wearing the same hat in Raiders.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:00 pm

Sort of like an Arby's commercial?

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:49 pm

bravo rundquist. its good to see that someone is not scared to post their opinion on the forum especially when it goes against most of the views that members hold.

its good to have viewpoints from both sides of the fence so that people can make their own educated opinion on issues.

cheers

Farnham54 · Post by **Farnham54** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:32 pm

Well stated, well refined, and a very cordial dissenting opinion, Rundiquist. If everyone could disagree with each other with such courtesy, the world would be a better place!

I think that the 'screen accurate' indy hat is too tall for most folks too--but a good bash can make something a lot more in proportion to ones face. It's all in how you carry it, in my opinion.

I currently have 3 hats--a Straw, a Gray Federation and a Brown federation. One is for Adventurin', one is for Dressin' up, and the other is for Summer.

And then there's my leather Tricorn for the bars. Girls love it.

Cheers
Craig

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:52 pm

Rundquist, I admire you for your honesty.

Personally for me, I love a guy wearing an Indy fedora, but I guess I'm just biased.

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:29 pm

I believe the grey hat and blazer was part of Lucas original concept of Indy as a "man about town". This is rectified in Last Crusade by implying that he really does wear the brown hat all the time.

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:17 am

Rundquist wrote:
Renderking Fisk wrote:Rundquist: Why do you think the Jones hat looks stupid?
That's a good question. As an Indiana Jones fan it sounds almost like sacrilege. At one time (in my own case), it would have been. I just got to the point where I like “slick” looking hats. What’s “slick”, is subjective of course. But the Indy hat has three things going against it as far as my own tastes go.

So, you've decided to pimp your fedora. To each, his own. I don't particularly care for the gangsta look, myself, even though it is much more popular in today's culture than an Indy fedora.

You can imagine my horror then, when GraveRobberGreg and I were walking through the airport headed to last year's QM, and one of the baggage handlers complimented us on our hats. We were obviously wearing brown, Indy fedoras, and he says, "Great looking hats. You look just like gangsters".

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:06 am

Gangsters wore brown hats, too.

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:10 am

For what its worth, Swales told me that they did not take anything off the brims for the YIJC hat. This was over the phone and I could have misunderstood but it sure looks pretty wide.

Solo4114 · Post by **Solo4114** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:54 am

I've got a brown Federation coming my way. I also have a black dress hat that I often wear in the winter. It's a more finished looking hat -- pre-shaped with a teardrop sharp bash to it on the crown. It's a little tapered, and the brim has a black ribbon on the edge. Not a really obvious one, but it's there nonetheless.

I like both looks, though, and a well maintained self-shaped hat with no ribbon on the brim can still look pretty classy in my opinion.

As far as color goes, to me it all depends on the suit you're wearing. Brown will only really go with earth tones and some blues, I find. Grey and black are a bit more versatile. And I almost never see blue, but I probably wouldn't buy one if only because a blue hat may not be the same blue as my suits, in which case it'd look off.

But again, that's just my personal tastes.

stealthboy · Post by **stealthboy** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:07 pm

I have a black Homburg that I wear in the winter and I would definitely agree that black is more versatile. You really wouldn't want to wear your brown fedora with a black wool coat, for example.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:05 pm

think that the 'screen accurate' indy hat is too tall for most folks too--but a good bash can make something a lot more in proportion to ones face. It's all in how you carry it, in my opinion.

Well, we should all know by now that the Raiders hat was not really that tall. A 5 inch tall creased hat is not tall, but a 5 1/2 creased hat is a tall hat. Now, if you compare this with a 4 inch tall creased hat, it does look tall, but nothing close to some of the taller vintage hats around at the turn of the 20th century. The height of a hat is relative to the times. I used to make my hats all 5 3.4 open crown which creases down to 5 1/4. I noticed very soon when the pics started to be posted that my hats were too tall!!! 2 years later and after Mr. Garrisons hat studies, using the ribbon as the defining factor, I am absolutely certain of the height of the Raiders fedora. 5 inches max in its creased state. When Deborah stated the Poet was a tall hat, remember that at that time as now, most hats had shorter crowns. So, it was a tall hat compared to a 4 inch crown, but this was relative.

Also, I have heard over the years that the tight front pinch was an anomaly for the period. Wrong. After watching the collection of old serials that Michaelson shared with me, I can tell ya, the tight pinched front was not an anomaly at all. Even Barney Fife sported the tight pinch on his panama hat.

But, this was done way before that show was created. The tight pinch was a fairly common crease.

I think that the costumer chose wisely when she picked the Poet as the Raiders fedora. Could you imagine Indy wearing a dressy bound brim hat? I can't. Can you imagine him in a porkpie? I can't either.

Stingy brimmed, low crown hats make for good comedy, then and now. Buster Keaton looked funny with his, as he should .

To me, and I am being honest here, nothing hurts a man's "look" more than a hat that looks comical. Unless he is out for laughs of course. I have never seen any man in a stingy brimmed low crowned hat that did not look ludicrous. I always wonder if they are like anorexics, that is, they see something totally different in the mirror than what everyone else sees. I feel the same way about baseball caps turned sideways and droopy pants with underwear showing. Clownish. This is my opinion only, and if I have insulted anyone, forgive me. I am just stating my own opinion, and we all know the old saw in regards to opinions. To me, any hat should primarily serve as protection, and once the brims get too stingy to do that, the hat is no longer protection but a fashion statement only. I hate fashion statements that exclude the utilitarian aspects. I want guns that actually fire when you pull the trigger, pants that actually keep you warm, and hats that actually serve as protection from the elements. Otherwise, I have no use for them at all. Fedora

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:23 pm

Fedora wrote:Also, I have heard over the years that the tight front pinch was an anomaly for the period. Wrong. After watching the collection of old serials that Michaelson shared with me, I can tell ya, the tight pinched front was not an anomaly at all. Even Barney Fife sported the tight pinch on his panama hat. But, this was done way before that show was created. The tight pinch was a fairly common crease.

Fedora

Thanks Steve! I've been telling folks that for years, based on personal observation and research, but my words have fallen on deaf ears. Glad to have another in my corner on that.

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:13 pm

What? Did you say something, Michaelson?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:59 pm

Thanks Steve! I've been telling folks that for years, based on personal observation and research, but my words have fallen on deaf ears. Glad to have another in my corner on that.

Once you start looking for it, you see this tight pinch in many old films. Even the dimensional cut brim while not common, was used on hats back long ago. Joe Peters verified this a long time ago in a conversation. He had forgotten about them, but acknowledged they did indeed exist prior to Indy. A reverse derby cut. (derbies have wider brims on the sides generally)

In regards to the stingy brims looking comedic, I thought I would show some examples we are all familiar with. Add the stingy brim to either a real tall or short hat and you get the chuckles coming, expecially if worn high on the head.

Add a tall crown to the stingy brim and you get this classic comedic look.

Of course, shrinking the brim finally brings you to the most comedic hat of all-the fez. No brim. This was the logical conclusion of the small brimmed hats.

Even if you wear an Indy fedora way up on your head, it does not approach the comedic.

Coming from the opposite side of the fence as Rundquist, to me the Raiders fedora is the most attractive of any hat that was made, and at any time. Much of it has to do with my own personal preference, but also stingy brimmed hats and 4 inch crowned hats just make me cringe. Until I discovered the Raiders fedora, I was happy wearing western hats or 2 3/4 brimmed panama hats. I think I was attracted to the Raiders fedora because it did not look like what I thought a traditional fedora looked like, and it had a western flair to it. It looks like a hybrid to me. Still does. Of course part of what moves it away from the traditional dress fedora is the warped, asymetrical brim, but also the tight front pinch, and practically non tapered look. And of course, the dimensional brim plays a large role as well. Plus, it does not have the traditonal American teardrop or C-crowns crease in the top. Rundquist, you are in good company. The only other guy that thinks the Raiders fedora is ugly is GH!!!

I am just ragging ya here, and no offense, please. To each his own, and wear what you like. If we all liked the same thing, it would be a rather boring world. Fedora

Solo4114 · Post by **Solo4114** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:15 pm

Don't forget these stingy-brimmed rascals...

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:54 pm

Fedora makes a good point about slight hat spec changes making a world of difference in looks. Still, I wouldn’t equate not liking the Indiana Jones hat to liking bowlers, Fezzes, Top hats, and low crowned stingy brimmed hats. I just don’t go for the sombrero, or cowboy look, or whatever you want to call it.

Yes, some people wore tall crowned, tight pinched fedoras back in the 30’s. Others did not. If I lived back in the 30’s, I would be one of the guys who did not, is all I meant to say. The Indy hat doesn’t look quite as silly to me as some of the other hats in Fedora’s post, but it’s close. Cheers

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:37 pm

I say thank heavens we all have different tastes too! If we all wore and liked the same thing, this would sure be a boring existance!

I've also noticed that when some folks look really dumb in a particular hat, the same hat looks absloutely perfect on another. Strange.

It's all in how one carries themselves when wearing their hats. I've personally SEEN and HANDLED some of the fine hats that Rundquist owns. They just don't work for me.....but when Adam is wearing them.....welllll....they just work!!! It's all in the attitude, and how you wear the style.

Not giving Rundquist the 'big head'....but he LOOKS good in his narrow brim hats, and that's just all there is to it!!

Regards! Michaelson

Solo4114 · Post by **Solo4114** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:21 pm

You gotta wear the style that's you. Personally, I've always liked the wider brimmed, tall crowned fedoras, although I guess I can go either way on tight pinch or looser pinch. My one black hat is looser in the pinch and more purposely shaped, so it seems dressier to me (which is fine -- I wear it to work and I'm a lawyer, so a little dressy isn't a bad thing).

But yeah, if I lived in the 30s, ####, I'd probably have several different styles (if I could afford it). Might even own a top hat for going out to black or white tie events.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:26 pm

The Indy hat doesn’t look quite as silly to me as some of the other hats in Fedora’s post, but it’s close. Cheers

I respect that. Different strokes for different folks. Or variety is the spice of life. All too true.

Fedora

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:31 am

Last night I ran into a guy who had what looked like a stingy brim version of my grey AB. We complimented each other's hats, but noted how we each liked the shorter, or wider brim. He looked good in his, I looked good in mine. Agreed, variety is the spice of life!

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:40 pm

Michaelson wrote:I say thank heavens we all have different tastes too! If we all wore and liked the same thing, this would sure be a boring existance!

Yeah, me too. I'm really glad that I am the only one around here that likes fedoras and brown leather jackets.

One hat for all occasions?

One hat for all occasions?

2 Hats