AB 'overheating' problems?

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:51 am

I've stated for a while that I've had a LOT of problems wearing an AB in the hot weather of the South. I've never had problems wearing ANY felt hats during warm weather my entire life, but apparently things are changing, and now when it gets above 70, I melt!

I've finally had my fill, and decided to try something that Steve mentioned doing to hats he wears when working in the yard......I pulled the plastic capped liner out of my favorite AB, and the difference in 'feel' has been absolutely unbelievable. It's amazing just how much heat is held inside the crown and 'capped' by the top plastic in the liner. Apparently the beaver felt CAN breathe a bit more than I thought it could when unlined, as apparently heat is dissapating through the crown now.

SO, as a suggestion, if you're looking for immediate relief in summer wear, it appears the removal of the liner is the way to go. I'm not doing this to my dress clipper gray AB, but my regular wear dark gray has now been done this way, and is a MUCH more comfortable wearing hat from the get-go....and it's already 82 outside today, with projected temps of close to 90 today. Normally I start perspiring when it's in the high 70's, so the improvement has already been realized today in my drive in to work.

Just wanted to toss that out there as a 'data point'.

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:57 am

Come to think of it, this makes sence. I have a thin beater fedora with no lining that keeps my head cool. I also have a Dobbs Cross Country which was made without a liner, and that hat's pretty cool. This weekend got warm enough that my main AB felt a bit toasty, but I thought it had something to do with the thickness of the felt. I forgot about the liner. I'll have to try removing it and see what happens.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:58 am

Thanks for reporting that Michealson!

My AB is the rabbit model without the plain silk(?) liner. I wonder if it would make a difference if I pulled it out?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:03 am

That's another good point! My vintage AB has a silk liner in it, whereas my regular AB has the plastic cap. The hat with the silk lining is cooler. I bet no liner is cooler then that!

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:08 am

One of the first things I do to most of my hats is remove the liner. Two reasons. As mentioned, the plastic coated ones get hot. After a while of wearing them, they start to look a little gamey as they tend to yellow a bit. They are decoration only as far as I am concerned. That and identification on some hats.

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:09 am

Wow! Michaelson, it gets really hot in Tennessee.
It's 50 in Boston today.
I actually haven't seen the plastic cap liner on an AB. All of mine have the satin liner.
I know, in some cases, Steve has pulled out the entire liner. I have also seen vintage hats this way.
Personally, when it gets warm, I pull out the Panama, but that is an entirely different look.
Thanks for the reportage!

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:12 am

Nothing better than re-inventing the wheel, is there?

Yep, meant to give Rick credit for that 'idea' too, as he's preached that practice as well in the past.

I like the plastic liner in my hats that are worn in winter. Now I know why.

As to the all silk liners....that's a good question. I guess as long as they can breathe, it's workable, but none of mine have just the silk liner now, so I really can't reply to that one.

Since I don't seem to sweat above the leather sweatband, the felt sweat thru hasn't been an issue for me as long as I've worn fedoras.....knock on wood.

Regards! Michaelson

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:17 am

Well remember, sweat discolors felt. I imagine the liner can help prevent this to some exent.
I have learned so much about hats by handling them. I have gone through hundreds of vintage hats this year and by handling them and seeing the effects of wear and abuse, I have learned what a hat can and cannot take.
It's a shortcut to some of the knowledge you have all gathered.

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:41 pm

My first AB came from Steve with the plain satin lining (no plastic top) & I wore it without problem through China's greatest heatwave since the 1800's

However, when Steve anounced that his hat's were coming with the plastic topped liner towards the end of last year I was so worried about them doing exactly what you complain of Michaelson, that I pestered him to offer both linings & he can now accomodate plain satin liners on request

Given my hat is a summer travelling companion, I didn't want to overheat either, but love looking inside to see that beautiful gold headpiece icon

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:45 pm

Well, that answers the question above as to whether or not the silk only lining DOES dissapate the heat.

From your experience, apparently it does!

Thanks!

I guess I need to dig around in my closet and see if I still have a loose satin lining laying around to test in my hat. I thought I had one in there.......

High regards! Michaelson

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:54 pm

I just removed the liner from the hat I posted pics of on another thread. I can tell the difference allready!! As we all know, a satin liner in a jacket is hotter than a cotton one due to the breathability issues. Many spring and summer felt hats back in the old days came without the liner. I never worry about sweat hurting the felt. They make naptha for getting those stains out.

The only time I like the plastic capped liner is in the winter time. It makes the inside of the hat look snazzier, and you do not notice it when the temps are cooler.

In the heat thought, that plastic cap causes the sweat to pool up on the top of my head.

Fedora

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:57 pm

Well, Steve, old buddy....all you had to do was tell that dummy in south central Tennessee to pull that dang plastic liner out of his gray hat, and he'd stop sending you email after email whining about this problem.....

Regards! Michaelson

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:14 pm

Well, Steve, old buddy....all you had to do was tell that dummy in south central Tennessee to pull that dang plastic liner out of his gray hat, and he'd stop sending you email after email whining about this problem.....

The plastic caps sure look purty, but man, they can be hot!! The more that a felt can breath, the cooler it will be. Now, if I could just find a vented sweat like Camptown uses!! That is the greatest sweat ever made, for summer wear. Regards, Fedora

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:51 pm

AMEN Bro!!!

Put me as one of the first on the list if you ever DO find a source for those sweats!!

HIGH regards! Michaelson

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:07 pm

Michaelson wrote:Well, Steve, old buddy....all you had to do was tell that dummy in south central Tennessee to pull that dang plastic liner out of his gray hat, and he'd stop sending you email after email whining about this problem.....

Regards! Michaelson

And take that parka off while you're at it, sir...

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:31 pm

At least in the AB, the liner is just sewn into the crown, rather than glued like other hats, so removal now and reinsertion LATER will be be no particular problem....quite reversable (where 'aging' your jacket isn't.

).......or you could get an AB for summer wear, and one for winter wear.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:05 pm

Indiana Jerry wrote:And take that parka off while you're at it, sir...

THAT'S quite another matter, and completely between Wested and myself, thank you very much!

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:23 am

I used a cotton ball soaked in rubbing alcohol, and it took the glue out of the top of the hat with no problem. Just be sure you go clockwise WITH the grain of the felt when wiping inside the crown....opposite of what you do when you brush your hat...counter clockwise.

Regards! Michaelson

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:28 am

That is water based glue. It should wipe off with water. I stitch the liners in at the bottom, but use a few dabs of elmers glue on the tip to keep the liner from fall down as time goes by. Why do I do not stitch in the top? I have not figured out how they did it!!! And still have the liner fairly straight.

Fedora

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:31 am

I tried water, Steve, but it didn't soften up the glue at all. What are you using, left over wood glue from your previous life?

Regards! Michaelson

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:36 am

What are you using, left over wood glue from your previous life?

Hey, I had not thought of that!! Basically the same stuff, I think. I have got to come up with another way of attaching the liner to the top. When I reblock one of these hats, the glue sticks the hat to the block, and it is hard sometimes to get the felt broke loose!! I may triy some of that double sided tape. Now, that I think about it, that may be the way to go. regards, Fedora

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:39 am

See there....a discussion of a completely different problem offers a possible solution to a completely different situation!

COOL!!

A question....have you given any thought to possibily creating a 'sticker' type identifier that could be 'glued' on the top of an unlined crown so the hat is still identified as an AB, but the heat from the liner isn't a factor for a 'summer' weight hat? It would be small enough to not be a heat collector, and big enough to keep hair oils from being absorbed by the top of the crown because of direct contact. Just curious.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:27 pm

(Psssst....hey, Tone....I believe I can hear Fedora beating his head against the wall of his shop from here. He's mumbling something like..'don't these guys ever quit?!!', or something like that. 8-[ )

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:45 pm

I agree, Tone. I think this is the first one I've ever seen glued to the top, even old vintage versions that have the plastic liner cap are loose, so I also think maybe it's a procedure you really don't need to do, Steve.

Regards! Michaelson

VP · Post by VP » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:47 pm

Michaelson wrote:it's already 82 outside today, with projected temps of close to 90 today

40 here.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:48 pm

Wow!

It's in the 90's here today with a few thunderstorms in the area....so our usual 1 week of Spring has come and gone, and we're right into the usual Southern summer. Ick.

Regards! Michaelson

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:48 pm

Yup, I agree Michaelson. I took the liner out of my AS months ago so I could tighten up the ribbon. Since then its just been tucked into place and I've had no trouble with it.

P.S. I don't remember my hat having any glue.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:51 pm

Was yours the all 'silk' lining, or silk lining with the plastic top cap inside?The one with the plastic cap is the version we're talking about.

He doesn't glue the all cloth version.

Regards! Michaelson

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:52 pm

Oh, never mind, mine has the all "silk" lining.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:53 pm

Ah, that makes sense then.

Regards! Michaelson

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:53 pm

Don't worry, I put it back!

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:41 pm

YIKES! Glued liner top!?!

Another reason I'm happy to go with the all satin liner rather than the plastic topped

Equally, my all satin liner isn't glued & sits just perfectly up in the top, well held in by contouring to the front pinch

As for Steve beating his head against a wall, I believe you'll find he's in the queue behind Peter from Wested

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:04 pm

They're easily removed too, so no, it's NOT a 'glob of glue' situation here...and like Tone, it was just a nit picky thing for me as well, and easily fixed. The inside of the crown is as nice as the outside of the crown too....so it's nice to see the attention to detail, quality control, and craftsmanship in an area most folks never bother to look at, or ever see.

Reminds me of a fine old watch movement. The craftsmen used to make the old pocket watch movements absolutely BEAUTIFUL with damskeening and gold jewel settings, and yet the ONLY person that would EVER see these items would be the watchmaker or repairmen who worked on the watches...out of sight of the owner. Pride in the craftsmanship of your product is rare, folks, and can be seen in this hat....even in the areas you never bother to look.

Regards! Michaelson

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:07 pm

Michealson, I agree. Mr Delk is a throwback from a different time ( a true craftmen).

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:19 pm

Totally agree. It also gave me a good opening to work my interest of pocket watches into the discussion..... 8-[

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:29 pm

Uh....

ummmmm

.......no.

Regards! Michaelson

Antone · Post by **Antone** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:15 pm

Ragingblues wrote:
Could you say that he wore his hat in a "timely fashion"?

Ken

You could, but it would probably just tick him off.

So I guess he was a gearhead...literally?!?

Antone

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:47 pm

Ok , we are starting to slide of the table here.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:50 pm

Michaelson wrote:(Psssst....hey, Tone....I believe I can hear Fedora beating his head against the wall of his shop from here. He's mumbling something like..'don't these guys ever quit?!!', or something like that. 8-[ )

Steve, Peter might appreciate a call from someone who just wants to comisserate about us instead of asking HIM to change things...

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:37 pm

Great!!! No more glue on the top of the liners. Yesssss!!!

Now, vintage hats, the nice ones were sewn on the very top. How they did this, I still do not know!! There is a flap of material on the top of the liner, where it is seamed together, and the old hatters sewed this to the top of the hat, so the liner would never drop down on top of the head. If I am not mistaken, the Optimos come like this too. But, I have not been able to pull it off.

And this bothers me to no end. Getting these big paws down inside the hat to do this procedure is impossible. I need small feminine hands to pull it off. I guess that is why most hatters employ small handed females to do the sweat, ribbon and liners!!

That does not leave much for the actuall hatter to do in constructing a hat. So, perhaps instead of giving the hatter credit for a nice looking hat, we should give the compliments to his hourly employees!!

Afterall, he did nothing but block, and flange the hat.

Fedora

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:35 pm

I feel so strange... I took out the plastic liner from my 1st AB tonight to see how well it breathes tomorrow, but I can help thinking the hat is somehow naked now.

I have the spots of glue, so I guess it's time to spend a little more quality time with my hat!

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:16 pm

Fedora wrote:Great!!! No more glue on the top of the liners. Yesssss!!!

You know, now that I think of it...my liner (w/ the plastic shield) doesn't isn't attached up into the crown of the hat...so I think the glue may not always hold on anyway, Steve. You should be good to just skip that step.

(I'm guessing mine coming loose might have something to do w/ one of the big soakings it took...

)

Indiana Jarmyr · Post by **Indiana Jarmyr** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:21 pm

I'll be going to eastern Turkey tomorrow, and from what I have heard, I can expect temperatures around 40 degrees celsius (104 degrees fahrenheit, I think). Now, should I just get on with it and remove that plastic capped liner, or should I wait until I get down there, and see how it turns out?

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:29 pm

Remove it. I've been wearing my AB without liner for a several months now, and the temps here were 96 F and high humidity. Though I was perspiring quite a bit, at least the hat was doing it's job in keeping the sun off my noggin, and I wasn't dying from the heat like I did when I kept the liner IN the hat. Before I couldn't STAND the amount of heat that being generated by my head and held in by the liner.

So, word to the wise....take it out BEFORE you hit the road. It will cook your brains if you don't.

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana Jarmyr · Post by **Indiana Jarmyr** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:49 pm

Alright, it's done. Though, I must admit the top of the hat seems a bit different now. I can't put my finger on it, but it seems a bit more fragile than before.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:52 pm

It isn't. BELIEVE me!

I've found it's much more manageable too, as if the crown gets mashed, the liner usually doesn't fair to well. With OUT the liner, it just gives and keeps on going. I even toss mine in the back seat of the car now with no qualms about messing anything up (and I NEVER do that with my lined hats!

).

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:41 pm

Jarmyr, you did the right thing taking out the liner. I've had mine out for a while, too, and I plan on taking this AB with me to toasty Lebanon in little over a week.

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:32 pm

Hey all, I was curious, you say that the AB's w/silk liner are cooler. Well as to any one who lives on the East coast can atest to the humidity.
My AB has the silk liner and I some time perspire to the point that when I take my hat off my sweat kinda runs down my face. So is it the humidity are am I just "hot". No not that kinda hot, just hot blooded.
Croft

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:20 pm

Good question Croft. My AB is one of the "earlier" ones without the plastic cap. I can certainly atest to the high humidity of the east coast. Back home in southern WV the humidity get horridly bad in the deep narrow valleys. However, I will say, that my AB is just about as comfortable as any other hat/cap I've worn. Next time I hit the trail I'll pull the liner out just to see if I can tell any difference.

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:05 pm

All this talk of removing the liner has me feeling a little woozy, I'd feel like I was ruining one of the best hats I've ever owned. If there was some way to easyily take it out and put it back. I know velco!
Then the question come up how do you prove it was an AB w/out the liner.

But how does one just simply put it back come the fall, I'm no taylor.
Croft

AB 'overheating' problems?

AB 'overheating' problems?

Re: AB 'overheating' problems?

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