AB 'overheating' problems?
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- Michaelson
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AB 'overheating' problems?
I've stated for a while that I've had a LOT of problems wearing an AB in the hot weather of the South. I've never had problems wearing ANY felt hats during warm weather my entire life, but apparently things are changing, and now when it gets above 70, I melt!
I've finally had my fill, and decided to try something that Steve mentioned doing to hats he wears when working in the yard......I pulled the plastic capped liner out of my favorite AB, and the difference in 'feel' has been absolutely unbelievable. It's amazing just how much heat is held inside the crown and 'capped' by the top plastic in the liner. Apparently the beaver felt CAN breathe a bit more than I thought it could when unlined, as apparently heat is dissapating through the crown now.
SO, as a suggestion, if you're looking for immediate relief in summer wear, it appears the removal of the liner is the way to go. I'm not doing this to my dress clipper gray AB, but my regular wear dark gray has now been done this way, and is a MUCH more comfortable wearing hat from the get-go....and it's already 82 outside today, with projected temps of close to 90 today. Normally I start perspiring when it's in the high 70's, so the improvement has already been realized today in my drive in to work.
Just wanted to toss that out there as a 'data point'.
Regards! Michaelson
I've finally had my fill, and decided to try something that Steve mentioned doing to hats he wears when working in the yard......I pulled the plastic capped liner out of my favorite AB, and the difference in 'feel' has been absolutely unbelievable. It's amazing just how much heat is held inside the crown and 'capped' by the top plastic in the liner. Apparently the beaver felt CAN breathe a bit more than I thought it could when unlined, as apparently heat is dissapating through the crown now.
SO, as a suggestion, if you're looking for immediate relief in summer wear, it appears the removal of the liner is the way to go. I'm not doing this to my dress clipper gray AB, but my regular wear dark gray has now been done this way, and is a MUCH more comfortable wearing hat from the get-go....and it's already 82 outside today, with projected temps of close to 90 today. Normally I start perspiring when it's in the high 70's, so the improvement has already been realized today in my drive in to work.
Just wanted to toss that out there as a 'data point'.
Regards! Michaelson
- binkmeisterRick
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Come to think of it, this makes sence. I have a thin beater fedora with no lining that keeps my head cool. I also have a Dobbs Cross Country which was made without a liner, and that hat's pretty cool. This weekend got warm enough that my main AB felt a bit toasty, but I thought it had something to do with the thickness of the felt. I forgot about the liner. I'll have to try removing it and see what happens.
- binkmeisterRick
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One of the first things I do to most of my hats is remove the liner. Two reasons. As mentioned, the plastic coated ones get hot. After a while of wearing them, they start to look a little gamey as they tend to yellow a bit. They are decoration only as far as I am concerned. That and identification on some hats.
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Wow! Michaelson, it gets really hot in Tennessee.
It's 50 in Boston today.
I actually haven't seen the plastic cap liner on an AB. All of mine have the satin liner.
I know, in some cases, Steve has pulled out the entire liner. I have also seen vintage hats this way.
Personally, when it gets warm, I pull out the Panama, but that is an entirely different look.
Thanks for the reportage!
It's 50 in Boston today.
I actually haven't seen the plastic cap liner on an AB. All of mine have the satin liner.
I know, in some cases, Steve has pulled out the entire liner. I have also seen vintage hats this way.
Personally, when it gets warm, I pull out the Panama, but that is an entirely different look.
Thanks for the reportage!
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Nothing better than re-inventing the wheel, is there?
Yep, meant to give Rick credit for that 'idea' too, as he's preached that practice as well in the past.
I like the plastic liner in my hats that are worn in winter. Now I know why. As to the all silk liners....that's a good question. I guess as long as they can breathe, it's workable, but none of mine have just the silk liner now, so I really can't reply to that one. Since I don't seem to sweat above the leather sweatband, the felt sweat thru hasn't been an issue for me as long as I've worn fedoras.....knock on wood.
Regards! Michaelson
Yep, meant to give Rick credit for that 'idea' too, as he's preached that practice as well in the past.
I like the plastic liner in my hats that are worn in winter. Now I know why. As to the all silk liners....that's a good question. I guess as long as they can breathe, it's workable, but none of mine have just the silk liner now, so I really can't reply to that one. Since I don't seem to sweat above the leather sweatband, the felt sweat thru hasn't been an issue for me as long as I've worn fedoras.....knock on wood.
Regards! Michaelson
Last edited by Michaelson on Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
- Hemingway Jones
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Well remember, sweat discolors felt. I imagine the liner can help prevent this to some exent.
I have learned so much about hats by handling them. I have gone through hundreds of vintage hats this year and by handling them and seeing the effects of wear and abuse, I have learned what a hat can and cannot take.
It's a shortcut to some of the knowledge you have all gathered.
I have learned so much about hats by handling them. I have gone through hundreds of vintage hats this year and by handling them and seeing the effects of wear and abuse, I have learned what a hat can and cannot take.
It's a shortcut to some of the knowledge you have all gathered.
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My first AB came from Steve with the plain satin lining (no plastic top) & I wore it without problem through China's greatest heatwave since the 1800's
However, when Steve anounced that his hat's were coming with the plastic topped liner towards the end of last year I was so worried about them doing exactly what you complain of Michaelson, that I pestered him to offer both linings & he can now accomodate plain satin liners on request Given my hat is a summer travelling companion, I didn't want to overheat either, but love looking inside to see that beautiful gold headpiece icon
However, when Steve anounced that his hat's were coming with the plastic topped liner towards the end of last year I was so worried about them doing exactly what you complain of Michaelson, that I pestered him to offer both linings & he can now accomodate plain satin liners on request Given my hat is a summer travelling companion, I didn't want to overheat either, but love looking inside to see that beautiful gold headpiece icon
- Michaelson
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Well, that answers the question above as to whether or not the silk only lining DOES dissapate the heat.
From your experience, apparently it does!
Thanks! I guess I need to dig around in my closet and see if I still have a loose satin lining laying around to test in my hat. I thought I had one in there.......
High regards! Michaelson
From your experience, apparently it does!
Thanks! I guess I need to dig around in my closet and see if I still have a loose satin lining laying around to test in my hat. I thought I had one in there.......
High regards! Michaelson
I just removed the liner from the hat I posted pics of on another thread. I can tell the difference allready!! As we all know, a satin liner in a jacket is hotter than a cotton one due to the breathability issues. Many spring and summer felt hats back in the old days came without the liner. I never worry about sweat hurting the felt. They make naptha for getting those stains out.
The only time I like the plastic capped liner is in the winter time. It makes the inside of the hat look snazzier, and you do not notice it when the temps are cooler. In the heat thought, that plastic cap causes the sweat to pool up on the top of my head. Fedora
The only time I like the plastic capped liner is in the winter time. It makes the inside of the hat look snazzier, and you do not notice it when the temps are cooler. In the heat thought, that plastic cap causes the sweat to pool up on the top of my head. Fedora
- Michaelson
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Well, Steve, old buddy....all you had to do was tell that dummy in south central Tennessee to pull that dang plastic liner out of his gray hat, and he'd stop sending you email after email whining about this problem.....
The plastic caps sure look purty, but man, they can be hot!! The more that a felt can breath, the cooler it will be. Now, if I could just find a vented sweat like Camptown uses!! That is the greatest sweat ever made, for summer wear. Regards, Fedora
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And take that parka off while you're at it, sir...Michaelson wrote:Well, Steve, old buddy....all you had to do was tell that dummy in south central Tennessee to pull that dang plastic liner out of his gray hat, and he'd stop sending you email after email whining about this problem.....
Regards! Michaelson
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At least in the AB, the liner is just sewn into the crown, rather than glued like other hats, so removal now and reinsertion LATER will be be no particular problem....quite reversable (where 'aging' your jacket isn't. ).......or you could get an AB for summer wear, and one for winter wear.
Regards! Michaelson
Regards! Michaelson
Last edited by Michaelson on Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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That is water based glue. It should wipe off with water. I stitch the liners in at the bottom, but use a few dabs of elmers glue on the tip to keep the liner from fall down as time goes by. Why do I do not stitch in the top? I have not figured out how they did it!!! And still have the liner fairly straight. Fedora
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Hey, I had not thought of that!! Basically the same stuff, I think. I have got to come up with another way of attaching the liner to the top. When I reblock one of these hats, the glue sticks the hat to the block, and it is hard sometimes to get the felt broke loose!! I may triy some of that double sided tape. Now, that I think about it, that may be the way to go. regards, FedoraWhat are you using, left over wood glue from your previous life?
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See there....a discussion of a completely different problem offers a possible solution to a completely different situation!
COOL!!
A question....have you given any thought to possibily creating a 'sticker' type identifier that could be 'glued' on the top of an unlined crown so the hat is still identified as an AB, but the heat from the liner isn't a factor for a 'summer' weight hat? It would be small enough to not be a heat collector, and big enough to keep hair oils from being absorbed by the top of the crown because of direct contact. Just curious.
Regards! Michaelson
COOL!!
A question....have you given any thought to possibily creating a 'sticker' type identifier that could be 'glued' on the top of an unlined crown so the hat is still identified as an AB, but the heat from the liner isn't a factor for a 'summer' weight hat? It would be small enough to not be a heat collector, and big enough to keep hair oils from being absorbed by the top of the crown because of direct contact. Just curious.
Regards! Michaelson
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I agree, Tone. I think this is the first one I've ever seen glued to the top, even old vintage versions that have the plastic liner cap are loose, so I also think maybe it's a procedure you really don't need to do, Steve.
Regards! Michaelson
Regards! Michaelson
Last edited by Michaelson on Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AB 'overheating' problems?
40 here.Michaelson wrote:it's already 82 outside today, with projected temps of close to 90 today
- Michaelson
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YIKES! Glued liner top!?! Another reason I'm happy to go with the all satin liner rather than the plastic topped
Equally, my all satin liner isn't glued & sits just perfectly up in the top, well held in by contouring to the front pinch
As for Steve beating his head against a wall, I believe you'll find he's in the queue behind Peter from Wested
Equally, my all satin liner isn't glued & sits just perfectly up in the top, well held in by contouring to the front pinch
As for Steve beating his head against a wall, I believe you'll find he's in the queue behind Peter from Wested
- Michaelson
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They're easily removed too, so no, it's NOT a 'glob of glue' situation here...and like Tone, it was just a nit picky thing for me as well, and easily fixed. The inside of the crown is as nice as the outside of the crown too....so it's nice to see the attention to detail, quality control, and craftsmanship in an area most folks never bother to look at, or ever see.
Reminds me of a fine old watch movement. The craftsmen used to make the old pocket watch movements absolutely BEAUTIFUL with damskeening and gold jewel settings, and yet the ONLY person that would EVER see these items would be the watchmaker or repairmen who worked on the watches...out of sight of the owner. Pride in the craftsmanship of your product is rare, folks, and can be seen in this hat....even in the areas you never bother to look.
Regards! Michaelson
Reminds me of a fine old watch movement. The craftsmen used to make the old pocket watch movements absolutely BEAUTIFUL with damskeening and gold jewel settings, and yet the ONLY person that would EVER see these items would be the watchmaker or repairmen who worked on the watches...out of sight of the owner. Pride in the craftsmanship of your product is rare, folks, and can be seen in this hat....even in the areas you never bother to look.
Regards! Michaelson
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hat
Michealson, I agree. Mr Delk is a throwback from a different time ( a true craftmen).
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indy
Ok , we are starting to slide of the table here.
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Steve, Peter might appreciate a call from someone who just wants to comisserate about us instead of asking HIM to change things...Michaelson wrote:(Psssst....hey, Tone....I believe I can hear Fedora beating his head against the wall of his shop from here. He's mumbling something like..'don't these guys ever quit?!!', or something like that. 8-[ )
Great!!! No more glue on the top of the liners. Yesssss!!!
Now, vintage hats, the nice ones were sewn on the very top. How they did this, I still do not know!! There is a flap of material on the top of the liner, where it is seamed together, and the old hatters sewed this to the top of the hat, so the liner would never drop down on top of the head. If I am not mistaken, the Optimos come like this too. But, I have not been able to pull it off. And this bothers me to no end. Getting these big paws down inside the hat to do this procedure is impossible. I need small feminine hands to pull it off. I guess that is why most hatters employ small handed females to do the sweat, ribbon and liners!! That does not leave much for the actuall hatter to do in constructing a hat. So, perhaps instead of giving the hatter credit for a nice looking hat, we should give the compliments to his hourly employees!! Afterall, he did nothing but block, and flange the hat. Fedora
Now, vintage hats, the nice ones were sewn on the very top. How they did this, I still do not know!! There is a flap of material on the top of the liner, where it is seamed together, and the old hatters sewed this to the top of the hat, so the liner would never drop down on top of the head. If I am not mistaken, the Optimos come like this too. But, I have not been able to pull it off. And this bothers me to no end. Getting these big paws down inside the hat to do this procedure is impossible. I need small feminine hands to pull it off. I guess that is why most hatters employ small handed females to do the sweat, ribbon and liners!! That does not leave much for the actuall hatter to do in constructing a hat. So, perhaps instead of giving the hatter credit for a nice looking hat, we should give the compliments to his hourly employees!! Afterall, he did nothing but block, and flange the hat. Fedora
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You know, now that I think of it...my liner (w/ the plastic shield) doesn't isn't attached up into the crown of the hat...so I think the glue may not always hold on anyway, Steve. You should be good to just skip that step.Fedora wrote:Great!!! No more glue on the top of the liners. Yesssss!!!
(I'm guessing mine coming loose might have something to do w/ one of the big soakings it took... )
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- Michaelson
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Remove it. I've been wearing my AB without liner for a several months now, and the temps here were 96 F and high humidity. Though I was perspiring quite a bit, at least the hat was doing it's job in keeping the sun off my noggin, and I wasn't dying from the heat like I did when I kept the liner IN the hat. Before I couldn't STAND the amount of heat that being generated by my head and held in by the liner.
So, word to the wise....take it out BEFORE you hit the road. It will cook your brains if you don't.
Regards! Michaelson
So, word to the wise....take it out BEFORE you hit the road. It will cook your brains if you don't.
Regards! Michaelson
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It isn't. BELIEVE me!
I've found it's much more manageable too, as if the crown gets mashed, the liner usually doesn't fair to well. With OUT the liner, it just gives and keeps on going. I even toss mine in the back seat of the car now with no qualms about messing anything up (and I NEVER do that with my lined hats! ).
Regards! Michaelson
I've found it's much more manageable too, as if the crown gets mashed, the liner usually doesn't fair to well. With OUT the liner, it just gives and keeps on going. I even toss mine in the back seat of the car now with no qualms about messing anything up (and I NEVER do that with my lined hats! ).
Regards! Michaelson
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Hey all, I was curious, you say that the AB's w/silk liner are cooler. Well as to any one who lives on the East coast can atest to the humidity.
My AB has the silk liner and I some time perspire to the point that when I take my hat off my sweat kinda runs down my face. So is it the humidity are am I just "hot". No not that kinda hot, just hot blooded.
Croft
My AB has the silk liner and I some time perspire to the point that when I take my hat off my sweat kinda runs down my face. So is it the humidity are am I just "hot". No not that kinda hot, just hot blooded.
Croft
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Good question Croft. My AB is one of the "earlier" ones without the plastic cap. I can certainly atest to the high humidity of the east coast. Back home in southern WV the humidity get horridly bad in the deep narrow valleys. However, I will say, that my AB is just about as comfortable as any other hat/cap I've worn. Next time I hit the trail I'll pull the liner out just to see if I can tell any difference.
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All this talk of removing the liner has me feeling a little woozy, I'd feel like I was ruining one of the best hats I've ever owned. If there was some way to easyily take it out and put it back. I know velco!
Then the question come up how do you prove it was an AB w/out the liner.
But how does one just simply put it back come the fall, I'm no taylor.
Croft
Then the question come up how do you prove it was an AB w/out the liner.
But how does one just simply put it back come the fall, I'm no taylor.
Croft