Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

From falls & poppers to plaiting & cracking technique, this section is dedicated in memory of Sergei, IndyGear Staff Member and Whip Guru. Always remember to keep "Celebratin' Life!"

Moderator: BullWhipBorton

Post Reply
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

I did a search of this section for details on the CS whip, but I only found some rough dimensions, in an old post:

"The diameter of the thong at the thickest point right after transition knot is just under 1 ¼" appox. The handle at the thinnest point just after the Turkeshead is 1" appox, there is a slight taper in the handle that thickens towards the transition. The space between the knots is 5”."

The pictures I find are low res and blurry at times, so I would not use photogrammetry to figure things out.

Can anyone help with a bit more details?

1) Heel knot diameter and length?
2) Plait count? From pictures it looks like 12 plait (O3U3 herringbone), but the strands look the same width as a Morgan bullwhip, which would mean it's 16 plait
3) Fall hitch strand count - is it an 8 point hitch or more?
4) Transition knot diameter?

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
Western New York Indy
Laboratory Technician
Laboratory Technician
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:52 pm
Location: Lost in a museum somewhere...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by Western New York Indy »

I don't know how much help it will be, but here's a video of a guy who visited Anthony De Longis at Rancho Indalo and took measurements from one of Anthony's CS whips. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jvTWhsWVpZU I don't know how good his measurements are, but maybe it's a start.

-WNY Indy
Last edited by Western New York Indy on Wed Oct 09, 2024 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
tomek9210
Professor of Archaeology
Professor of Archaeology
Posts: 1163
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:13 pm
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Contact:

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by tomek9210 »

808whips made a replica of Terry Jacka whip for a guy from the video Western New York Indy posted - try to contact him at https://www.facebook.com/808Whips/ and maybe he will share some measurements.

I also have some photos I saved over the years, there are some pics of KOTCS whip with a measuring tape along it so reach me at tomek9210@gmail.com, FB or IG and I will gladly share them with you. It's easier this way than posting them here.
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

Western New York Indy wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:07 am I don't know how much help it will be, but here's a video of a guy who visited Anthony De Longis at Ranch Indalo and took measurements from one of Anthony's CS whips. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jvTWhsWVpZU I don't know how good his measurements are, but maybe it's a start.

-WNY Indy
Thank you for the hint, WNY Indy, I wrote him a comment, let's see if he can share some insight. :TOH:

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

tomek9210 wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:08 am 808whips made a replica of Terry Jacka whip for a guy from the video Western New York Indy posted - try to contact him at https://www.facebook.com/808Whips/ and maybe he will share some measurements.

I also have some photos I saved over the years, there are some pics of KOTCS whip with a measuring tape along it so reach me at tomek9210@gmail.com, FB or IG and I will gladly share them with you. It's easier this way than posting them here.
Thanks, Tomek! I reached out to 808whips, let's see what he can share. I will shoot you an email in a few moments, if you can share some pics with me, I'd be grateful. :TOH:

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
tomek9210
Professor of Archaeology
Professor of Archaeology
Posts: 1163
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:13 pm
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Contact:

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by tomek9210 »

If I remember correctly the handle diameter is around 25 mm and the diameter above the ringknot is nearly 30 mm. The handle is 7 inch fiberglass with short steel cable section extending to the thong, then two bellies and 2 bolsters made of chrome split cowhide and 12 plait overlay ending in 8 plait but with all 12 strands making the fall hitches. Plus heavy binding of course.

Well greased chrome split leather make it very heavy, around 1 kilo for a 10 footer.

I hope your CS bullwhip will be a beast :whip:
User avatar
Western New York Indy
Laboratory Technician
Laboratory Technician
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:52 pm
Location: Lost in a museum somewhere...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by Western New York Indy »

If all else fails, you could contact Anthony DeLongis and ask about the dimensions of his CS whips. His email is pretty easy to find online and, in my experience, he is very kind and willing to answer questions about all things whip related. :TOH:

-WNY Indy
Loneken
Laboratory Technician
Laboratory Technician
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:21 pm

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by Loneken »

PM me your email I'll send you some pics with measurements I had taken for somebody else on my Jacka

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

User avatar
IJJTM
Museum Curator
Museum Curator
Posts: 1516
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:14 am
Location: Southern California

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by IJJTM »

Has your question been answered? I could take some measurements of mine after work if you need anymore.
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

Hey, guys! I just woke up with an email from Keanu, at 808Whips and he sent all the info I was missing.

Like Tomek mentioned the whip is 12 plait, with a 12 point fall hitch, but the thong actually ends in 8 plait.

The rest of the measurements are on this sheet:

https://i.imgur.com/qYhHlAS.jpeg

More comprehensive than I ever could have wished!

Thank you all for the help!

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

My friends, this is insane... 1.25 inches on paper sounds like a lot, but it's even worse in real life. This whip will be a monster:

https://i.imgur.com/F87KN4h.jpeg

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
tomek9210
Professor of Archaeology
Professor of Archaeology
Posts: 1163
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:13 pm
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Contact:

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by tomek9210 »

Nice! Is it 6 or 8 footer? It's hard to tell because of that thickness :O

Will you dye it?
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

It's an 8 footer. It looks like a three foot whip, right? :rolling:

Yes, I have to dye it. The roo hide is beige not natural, so it wouldn't age anyway. :( It'll be dark brown and I'd like to make the knots black.

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
tomek9210
Professor of Archaeology
Professor of Archaeology
Posts: 1163
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:13 pm
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Contact:

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by tomek9210 »

Keep us posted!

Have you used fiberglass for a handle?
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

tomek9210 wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 12:34 pm Keep us posted!

Have you used fiberglass for a handle?
Will do! I hope to finish tomorrow, if my hands don't cramp up. :rolling:

Nope, I only had some spring steel around. 6 mm spring steel, I usually use 4.5 mm in my whips, but I was glad for the extra thickness.

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

All right, my friends, after three days work, here it is. My 8 feet Crystal Skull bullwhip, according to original specifications.

25 mm handle, tapering up to a 30 mm thong, which gradually tapers down to an 9 mm tip, just before the fall hitch (the specs were 8-10 mm tip for the original whips)
Five inches between heel knot and transition. The heel knot is just slightly larger than I meant, by 2 mm. 7 by 6 two pass turkhead's knots cover the transition and heel.

Image

Image

Image

12 plait overlay, dropping to 8 strands, the 4 dropped strands becoming the core and part of the 12 point fall hitch:

Image

This thing is huge and very heavy, here it is compared to my 8-plait normal dimensioned bull:

Image

I am very happy with how it turned out. I would have liked to having the thong thin more earlier, but as it is the taper is very constant and of that I am quite happy.

Thank you all again for the help in acquiring the specifications for the Jacka whip.

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
IJJTM
Museum Curator
Museum Curator
Posts: 1516
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:14 am
Location: Southern California

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by IJJTM »

Looks great!
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

IJJTM wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 11:18 amLooks great!
Thanks, IJJTM! :TOH:

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
tomek9210
Professor of Archaeology
Professor of Archaeology
Posts: 1163
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:13 pm
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Contact:

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by tomek9210 »

Awesome job!

Did you add more layers inside or used thicker leather to get it such thick?
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

Thanks, Tomek! :TOH:

Most of the thickness comes from the core, I built that up as much as possible. It is a braided roo hide core, over which I put a roo hide bolster and on top of that a 2.5 mm thick cow hide one. Up from there it is the basic 2 belly, 2 bolster construction. But one of these bolsters was a thickish cowhide, just to reach the right size.

Here is a section through the handle:

Image

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
tomek9210
Professor of Archaeology
Professor of Archaeology
Posts: 1163
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:13 pm
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Contact:

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by tomek9210 »

Now show us how it cracks :whip:

But watch out for your arms, they might get tired quite fast while using such a monster!
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

If the grass is dry in the next days, I'll try for a quick vid. :D

Yesterday I tried a few cracks, but it was a bit hard trying to keep it off the ground. It is very heavy and stiff. I can only do single cracks, very hard to change direction for figure eights for example. And the heel knot is bulky, which makes it even more cumbersome. :rolling:

I am thinking of making a 'thinish' CS version in the far future: for example 22 mm thong, 19-22 mm handle.

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
IJJTM
Museum Curator
Museum Curator
Posts: 1516
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:14 am
Location: Southern California

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by IJJTM »

I may be in the minority, but I find volleys to be a lot easier with my Jacka compared to my Morgan-styles Indy’s. But it took a bit to get used to the weight.
IndanowskiJones
Dig Worker
Dig Worker
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:08 pm

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by IndanowskiJones »

Beautiful work, bearbeast! :)
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

IJJTM wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2024 3:06 pm I may be in the minority, but I find volleys to be a lot easier with my Jacka compared to my Morgan-styles Indy’s. But it took a bit to get used to the weight.
Well, I am not a great whip-cracker by any means, so take what I said considering this also. I can just do some basic stuff :CR:

Normally the stiff, long transition should help. I have another whip with a transition this long and it definitely helps a lot.

I think for this one it is only the weight and big diameter of the heel knot that hinders me. I'll try some more, weather allowing...

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

IndanowskiJones wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2024 3:58 pm Beautiful work, bearbeast! :)
Thank you loads, IndanowskiJones! :D

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
Tremolo
Dig Leader
Dig Leader
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:59 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by Tremolo »

You seem to be on a run lately, bearbeast! That whip looks beautful! :notworthy:
Just by looking at it I can imagine that it is quite a workout to keep it off the ground, but it probably feels very satisfying when you get it to crack. Great work!
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

Thank you very much, Tremolo! :TOH:

I just managed to get a few overhead cracks out of it. It can be very loud! And yes, quite tiring on the shoulder.

The underhand crack did not work. I need to practice a bit more. I can do it with my other whips, but this one is too heavy to give it that wrist flick. ](*,)

https://youtube.com/shorts/xnrY0f3IUG4? ... _SEqPuIvoH

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
Tremolo
Dig Leader
Dig Leader
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:59 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by Tremolo »

In the video it looks even more impressive, the graceful rollout reminds me of a 10ft whip. That´s a beautiful combination to me.

Regarding the heaviness, I felt the same when I got a 10ft whip at the beginning of the year after only owning an 8ft for 10 years. Even now it is still quite tiring but the weighty rollout is kinda addictive and lets me bear the extra work it takes :D
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

The rollout and nice slow movement of a ten footer is amazing indeed. =P~

I tend to favour shorter whips lately due to space constraints. I don't really have where to crack longer whips. This 8 footer kept hitting the fence when I didn't pay enough attention. A 6-7 footer though? I can almost crack it inside! :rolling:

I need to practice some more and get used to the weight of this CS whip. It is about ~250 grams heavier than a ten footer I had a few years ago. And almost double the weight of some of my regular crackers.

But I agree with what you say, it is worth the effort once you get a nice loop and a clear "POP" at the end.

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
tomek9210
Professor of Archaeology
Professor of Archaeology
Posts: 1163
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:13 pm
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Contact:

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by tomek9210 »

Great! It cracks pretty much effortlessly. Weight does its work. By the way - how much does it weigh?
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

tomek9210 wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 11:40 am Great! It cracks pretty much effortlessly. Weight does its work. By the way - how much does it weigh?
Thanks! Yeah, I need to put no effort into the crack. Now that I got it to crack overhead, I'm more excited to try the underhand flick some more.

As far as I managed to balance it on my kitchen scales it seems to be 850 grams. I will try to put a tray on the scales, maybe tomorrow, to hold it for a precise measurement.

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
tomek9210
Professor of Archaeology
Professor of Archaeology
Posts: 1163
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:13 pm
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Contact:

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by tomek9210 »

That's a lot of leather to put in motion :o

My Del Carpio's 8 footer weighs around 800 grams but the balance is mainly in the handle as it's lead loaded.
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

Yes, it definitely is a lot of leather. :rolling: It's difficult to hone in on the right amount of effort to keep it in the air under the correct path, but without putting any force into the crack.

I think having the weight in the heel knot is easier. Maybe it would have helped balance my whip if I had added some lead tape. Made the whip heavier, while providing some balance. :-k

I am wondering what the original Morgan 10 footers, for Raiders, weighed. :-k

Cheers,
Bear
User avatar
tomek9210
Professor of Archaeology
Professor of Archaeology
Posts: 1163
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:13 pm
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Contact:

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by tomek9210 »

I'd say it weighed between 800 and 1000 grams.
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

Hmmm, thanks! Heavy-ish, but I am guessing much more sensibly distributed. :D

Cheers,
Bear
Stefan Hills
Archaeologist
Archaeologist
Posts: 382
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2002 10:42 pm

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by Stefan Hills »

Hi there Bear,

Do you make these whips for sale by any chance?

Best wishes,
Stefan
User avatar
bearbeast
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:31 am
Location: Lost in the search for gear...

Re: Terry Jacka CS whip specs?

Post by bearbeast »

Hi Stefan,

Sorry, no. :( I only make stuff for myself. It's my way of getting rid of work stress. I tried making for other people as well, but it turned into work, it was too stressful... ](*,)

Cheers,
Bear
Post Reply