Affordable hat block

kbaldinger · Post by **kbaldinger** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:52 am

Hi all,

Thought I'd share this. For those of you who want an easier way to shape their fedoras in the Raiders fashion, there is a site that offers a hat shaper for this. The site URL is www.hatshapers.com . When you get to the site just click on the products link and select quick view. Then just scroll down until you get to the Explorer Fedora. It's based on the crown shape from, what I can tell, the Raiders style and it's affordable. I'm expecting mine today and will be happy to upload pics when finished. I'm going to use this on my Federation and hope for the best. Take care and stay well.

Keith

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:01 am

Pyro brought this up quite some time ago (must be more than a year or so since).

Anyhow, they aren't able to create a completely untapered block, which is why I'd recommend to get a open crown block instead of the Explorer.

I don't want to scare you off here, just a little warning; I'd try that block on some junk hat first, instead of using it on the Federation right away. You might not like the results and in that case you spoiled a nice looking hat.

Regards,

Marc

Fabian · Post by **Fabian** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:22 am

Thanks for that link!

Didn't know of such a shop - I'll keep watching it.

Fabian

IndianaCollins · Post by **IndianaCollins** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:36 am

I didn't see what the price was. What was it? I've been considering re-blocking my fed delux sometime. I think of going to a LC of ToD look, and see what I though of it.

Also, do they have any open crown blocks, so it can be shaped however you want, since obviously, I can't get the Temple or LC look out of a raiders-type shaper.

I'm totally interested in the rsults, so I'll be keeping tabs on this post.

Fabian · Post by **Fabian** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:07 pm

Not sure whether that one may be considered for your purpose.

http://www.hatshapers.com/Product%20Pag ... c_Dome.htm

You'd have to ask some questions via E-Mail for it has to fit several specs. Just do a search on 'block' on this Forum.

Fabian

Fabian · Post by **Fabian** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:22 pm

Look at the webpage. They do offer 5 1/2 height blocks for the bigger sizes which is enough for some of us. I would bother with taper or the point of transition - you simply have to ask for more pics of that black monster.

I for myself prefer the hand crafting method for getting a block.

Fabian

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:21 pm

I use this to hold the shape of my wet hat (River felt and beach straw)

I never thought about getting open crown. That's a good idea. I just wanted to see what they had to offer.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:23 pm

Langpuss wrote: THey do a simple dome but nothing that comes close to the sort of height we'd be looking for.

I am thinking about cutting off the flat "brim" of the block so the shaper will sit all the way in any hat I use on it.

Fabian · Post by **Fabian** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 4:14 am

Great news on this.

Yesterday I wrote some mails to them asking for more pics and explained what I wanted to see. They instantly replied and asked for the specs of the block I'd need and said that there would be no problem making a completely custom block to my likings, eventually add it to their product line. I think that would be a killer for many of us.

Fedora, if you read this - would you be ready to write down what is substancial to a raiders block i.e. what caught your attention when making Marcs block?

Fabian

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:40 am

I don't know what the winning bids are like for used blocks with 2 piece brim flanges on e-bay. Expensive? If you do like Fedora recomends, and buy a large one and sand it to the right shape, it's likely that any included brim flange wouldn't function properly. ...$25 bucks for these with a free brim flange if you want one?! I need this proposed Hat Shapers Indy open crown block.. I wonder if that dimpled surface is due to what it's made from or what? Fedora says he keeps a bit of taper even in the sides. Hat Shapers could probably get these blocks out of the molds, as long as there was any taper - if it weren't for those pits... maybe they put them in to speed felt drying? Seems like it would show up on the finished hat. ...I haven't noticed that Fedora even owns a brim flange..? I know Dakota has the top of one that helps him pull the hat down the block...? I GOTTA have a flange! Sure, most of us could fashion a useable block, but an upper and lower flange? Not likely! .. We'd have to detemine how much curl it should have, to have Hat Shapers make for us.

Fabian · Post by **Fabian** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:24 am

I think I am allowed to quote this sentences of one of the hatshapers contact last mails:

I do not recommend cutting off the base/brim.... the shaper loses some of its structural integrity. If you do or whomever does remove it... Please, put some type of structure on the inside to give it support.... fill with plaster or something.

Also... with those pictures that are posted... the plastic we now use has a smaller and much smoother grain.

The process is pending - hope to post some more news soon.

Fabian

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 11:02 pm

Sounds like they can made an affordable block.

The picture of Pyro's block looks way too rough. You have to remember that when reblocking a hat, those little bumps will be on the hat, and on thin felt, would really stand out. The block needs to be as smooth as a baby's bottom. You can check out the pics of the shape of my block on the Indy Blues post. 3M$ is right, there is some taper on my block, but you can't notice it without a carpenters square. Or at least I can't. When I was first making this block, I used the square to get the sides really straight, all the way up. I quickly found out with my first reblock that really straight sides make for a mushroom hat once you put the front bashes in. So, I added some taper on the sides, but the difference of the circumference of the base to the top of the crown is only 3/8 inch. So, there is some taper, but very very little. My block is a full 6 inches tall, but since the base is the same size at least halfway up the block, I can block anything from a 6 inch open crown to a 4 inch open crown. I prefer my hats at the 5 3/4 as this height looks right on my head. Look at the pic of Indy Blues' hat on my block and notice how high the transition point is where the sides break and become the top. To get the look, this point has to be high, otherwise the top after bashing does not look accurate to the Raiders fedora. Many blocks start this transition way down on the crown and it causes a blocked in taper after styled. Generically speaking, I would start the break at 5 inches from the bottom and then have the other 3/4 of an inch as the dome. After bashing, you would end up with a hat around 5 inches tall at the sides and whatever you wanted the front and back to be. If I use the whole 6 inches of my block, my crown height on the sides after bashing is 5 1/4. Now, you have to decide what block shape to use, oval, slight oval, long oval, etc. My block is a slight long oval, because my head is a long oval and I want my head to deform the hat so the swoop rears its beautiful head. This works great on soft floppy hats, but not so good on stiff hats.(I no longer wear stiff hats) If your reblocks are going to be stiff felted hats, like some Deluxes, PBs, Kepplers, etc, the block shape needs to be the same as your head shape, in my case a long oval. Stiff hats can be really uncomfortable if not the same shape as the head they are put on.

If you need any more help, just ask. regards, Fedora

JerseyJones · Post by **JerseyJones** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:51 pm

Fedora wrote:When I was first making this block, I used the square to get the sides really straight, all the way up. I quickly found out with my first reblock that really straight sides make for a mushroom hat once you put the front bashes in.

Ya know, I noticed that in some shots the Raiders fed looks a little mushroomed, in a good way, especially in the Hovitos scenes.

And Fedora, would you work with these folks directly ? You are the guru round these parts ? It would RULE to have a Raiders block that was my 7 5/8 size.

Ken

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:52 pm

Fedora is the right man for the job, and he should be comfortable working with these Fedora clones!

I guess they're the proprieters? Looks like they might be wearing Westeds, the guy on the left with a shoulder bag? The guy on the right with a L.C. necktie? ...Gearheads, (who need taller crowns), if you ask me!

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:00 pm

I really don't want to assist them personally in copying my block.

The pics are out there, as well as the specs. If they have any knowledge about blocks, they can take what is given and come up with it-no problem. The thought of someone profiting from my work somehow doesn't sit well with me. I am a capitalist to the core. I will assist a business in anyway that I can, if asked by them. But this is different, and I may want a block or two out of the deal for my trouble. Not trying to be difficult, but when the hobby starts to make money for people that I don't know, then it is time to remove the hobby hat and put on the business hat. But, I don't like wearing that hat.

Sorry fellows. regards, Fedora

Fabian · Post by **Fabian** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:31 pm

A position I can understand very well.
I don't know how they can deal with specs because their last answer is two days old. In fact I would be kinda surprised if the forms could be treated as exact as we are asking. But who knows - maybe I am currently waiting for the first shots of a real baby.

Fabian

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:32 pm

What if they'd agree to list it as "Steve's Raiders Block"? ! AND throw in some free blocks!

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:45 pm

My name and Raiders together?

No thanks. But, a block in each size would be acceptable.

For that, I would even send them my block to copy. $\:D/$ Fedora

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:54 pm

3thoubucks wrote:Looks like they might be wearing Westeds, the guy on the left with a shoulder bag? The guy on the right with a L.C. necktie?

Nah, the guy on the left has the flap things on the shoulder (possibly epaulets) and the guy on the right has definite epaulets. But it does look like a possible whip handle in front of the left guy...that or an umbrella handle or even a makeshift staff of Ra. But very nice regardless of the fact.

Here's a bigger picture:
http://www.hatshapers.com/images/New_Ha ... _small.jpg

Does this company make hats themselves? If so, Renderking may be able to get little Coppertop a relatively inexpensive wool fedora made(???).

IndianaFist · Post by **IndianaFist** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:03 pm

That picture (of the block) Looks like vacu-formed ABS plastic that was in the oven a pinch to long, causing the airpockets in the plastic to explode. To us vacu-formers its the sunkist affect. Have they said if its hollow or solid???

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:41 am

It's hollow.

Regards,

Marc

Fabian · Post by **Fabian** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:03 am

Yip - hollow but stabilized through the plastic brim. Should be no problem put something in like plaster or anything else.

Fedora wrote:But, a block in each size would be acceptable. For that, I would even send them my block to copy.

Should cost me nothing to ask.

Fabian

JerseyJones · Post by **JerseyJones** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:51 am

Fedora wrote:My name and Raiders together? No thanks. But, a block in each size would be acceptable. For that, I would even send them my block to copy. $\:D/$ Fedora

Now you're talking.

I never meant do it for free, Fedora. But you have a valuable service to offer them. I meant more like broker a little consultation deal or license out your "1930's adventurer's authentic hat block."

See, I'm worse than you, a capitalist and a Lawyer !

Ugh !

JerseyJones · Post by **JerseyJones** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:54 am

Another thought.

We may wish to mine the talents of the Replica Props Forum to really nail down how to get great castings done etc. Then Steve could have a custom block set sculpted off of his own blocks and VOILA !

Who then needs a middleman if we can vacuform.

Fabian · Post by **Fabian** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:59 pm

Chuck Marston wrote:Fabian,
Interesting banter.. We'll (my son and I) have to make a better block and dress up in real Indy Gear for a new photo.

Steve's proposal for blocks in several sizes is very reasonable. We could even put some links to your user group if
thing work out.

Yes, the Hat Shapers are thermoformed ABS and the one in the photos is quite over-done. Don't know how that one got
by quality control. We can also make them smooth. The texturing is for our target market that makes their hats from
raw wool fiber. The texture works like s little washboard and help in the hand felting process.

We have had limited success with folks that want to reshape their existing hat bodies since the tolerances need to be
very close. As you know, in order to be able to lift the thermoformed part from the mold resist.

Don't know if we can reproduce Steve's crown usless we try. I'm willing to give it a shot. I should be able to do
it without damaging it in any way.

Regards,
Chuck Marston, Hat Shapers

Without comment.

Fabian

IndianaFist · Post by **IndianaFist** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:17 pm

O.K. Im a vacu-former and vacing over Steve's original block would increase there size by whatever thickness of ABS plastic was used. This might cause these blocks to roll up into the next hat size. Now what if we simply RTV molded the blocks and then we could just fill the negative mold with resin or hydrostone and pull out perfect copys. Just a thought. Heck that would be so easy that steve could crank them out at his house and sell them to us

Fabian · Post by **Fabian** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:53 am

IndianaFist, Chuck answered on your idea:

In responce to IndiansFist (the thermoformer): He has an excellent point. If you could get a good solid repo from Steve's block it would be better than a thermoformed shap like we make. Hydrostone would be great. I suggest sealing it with a good 2 part epoxy finish.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:34 pm

Hat Shapers offers their "classic dome" for instance, in 7 - SEVEN! - sizes. WITH 2 part brim flanges. Proper brim flanging is never discussed here, but it's crucial.

JerseyJones · Post by **JerseyJones** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:49 pm

Hey, has there been any follow up on Hatshapers Indy blocks ?

Anyone ?

Fabian · Post by **Fabian** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:08 am

Not by them as I was supposed to offer a proper Raiders block what I couldn't manage.

If anyone of you gearheads in the US have something that you call perfect Raiders-shape block send it to them. Chuck will be pleased to duplicate it and adding a new offer to his vault.

PM me if so - I will answer with his adress.

Fabian

zeus36 · Post by **zeus36** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:00 pm

JerseyJones wrote:Hey, has there been any follow up on Hatshapers Indy blocks ?

Anyone ?

I've been looking at the website for Hatshapers. Has anyone bought one of these. Which one to go with for a no taper block on a Raiders Fed? Or should I get an open crown, cut the brim flange off and fill the block?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:44 pm

The best route to go is to get Fred of Fred Hat Blocks to make you an Indy block. It will cost you 90 bucks plus shipping. If you want to go this route, just tell him to use the drawing that I sent him. It is all you will ever need, and will pay for itself in reblocks. Fedora

zeus36 · Post by **zeus36** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:38 pm

Thanks Fedora,

I just emailed him.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:51 pm

Ah... Hatshapers... here's a little something from thread limbo:

http://www.indygear.com/forum/viewtopic ... ght=#97725
Discussed the idea of a sturdier block with them, mailed them a couple of pics on what the result was to look like, and haven't heard anything since July 15...

Hope you have better luck this time.

I'd go with Fedora's block contact - after all, the vac-formed blocks are made for hobby wool-felt hat making, not for serious millinery use. A wooden block and flange will definitively hold for the strain when putting your body weight down on them.