Club Obi Wan

So as most here know Tony Nowak created and built the Indy jackets for the movie, and Belstaff got the high dollar license to sell the extremely high dollar replicas to the public.
I have never been a fan of licensed replica products, as typically they are shoddy work just chugged out to make a buck for people/companies who already have too many bucks, and they are not made for the actual enthusiast/fan who wants a good accurate reproduction of what they saw on screen.
That said, anyone asking me who I would choose to get a jacket from I would hands down say from the original maker, Tony Nowak...as not only did he make the originals but he also makes a #### good jacket, and in this instance custom fit to the individual for a fraction of the cost of the licensed replica jacket made by Belstaff. I know Tony's work, being that I have owned and still own three versions of his Indy jackets, and actually spoke with him a couple times briefly about his jackets, my acquiring his product for myself, and the business/community in general. For not building these for myself yet, I feel Tony's were THE Indy jacket to get, and I measure all others against what he has produced.

Like many other Indy jacket enthusiasts I saw the Belstaff offering initially as a slim cut of their own doing with just some Indy styling and wrote them off as not even offering a decent replica, much less at the ~$1600ish price level they were daring to ask for these.
Then I actually saw some Belstaff fans and forum members acquire some of these Belstaff Indy jackets, take some decent pictures showing their jackets, and thought they didn't look too bad... given the opportunity I wouldn't mind getting one made by the Nowak OEM and the Belstaff replica together for a comparo. So over time all the needed pieces have fallen into place, as I now have together a Nowak made KoTCS jacket built to accurate screen specs and also Belstaff's offering in the hero sized XL.

As many know I actually prefer showing more than telling so lets start with some good ol pics:

On-screen

Nowak Screen accurate LE

Belstaff replica





Belstaff on left, Nowak on right


Insides

Collar difference




So after thoroughly going over both jackets I have some things to share of course... First off, I have changed my position on shooting down the Belstaff, as I can now confirm they had to have had one of the screen used jackets in hand to replicate the Indy jacket this thoroughly. I can almost match up the hero XL Belstaff details to a certain hero jacket seen on screen... and looking at the Nowak jacket in person and knowing what tiny bits he improved for the public consumption Belstaff even replicated exactly how the screen jackets were put together.
Now there are slight differences between the Nowak and Belstaff: I will start with the Nowak as a screen accurate LE... this is true, but there were many different flavors of the jacket provided for the movie, as Tony built them in a variety of fits and finishes/colors for the production as requested for the various shoots and action done in the movie by Harrison and the stunt doubles. The Nowak standard pattern is probably the last pattern he used for the greater amount of jackets provided to the film, but this is not something I was able to ask him before his passing so that theory is not confirmed yet.
So from what I can see the details of this jacket match up to traits of a slightly different jacket in the movie than the one the Belstaff matches up to, which also goes to the confirmation Belstaff was giving a particular screen used jacket of Tony's to use for their replica.
This is a wonderful thing for the enthusiasts/fans looking at licensed product and unusual in the licensed replica market for jackets typically.
From the Belstaff example I have here you can even see that slightly bigger collar size and 1/2 inch extra length past the pockets matches up to the promo pic I started with. The Belstaff also carries a 1 inch raised armhole over the standard Nowak SA LE jacket, which also seems to show in the cut of the promo pic jacket... while the larger arm holed Nowak shows up elsewhere such as some on-set pics like this

and in this one the collar and arm holeness match up more closely to the Nowak I have here as well.

But, all the other details match very closely, pockets, side strap position and specs, hardware(zippers,snaps,d-rings), even internal pocket lining construction is the same between the two makers. Belstaff even did a very good job of replicating the leather down to the grain...although Belstaff's leather is a bit lighter, thinner, and not as supple as Nowak's. Nowak's stitch-work is also a tad better and stronger, as I have found a couple stitches that have come loose on the in new condition Belstaff where as the Nowaks have gone strong under clearly more stress.
Belstaff looks to also have produced their XL for the public as an exact 1:1 of the hero film jacket it was based on, as every measurement matches exactly to what Tony provided to folks as the Harrison size.
So I will say now I do believe Belstaff makes a valid replica, for me still not a $1600 worthy, but if you find one for a reasonable price it is definitely a well done replica of a screen seen hero jacket.

Excellent and VERY informative comparsion. Thank you!

So, any theories as to why they thought these jackets were worth $2000 when a real Nowak CS jacket cost less than half that price when Tony first offered them to the public?

Regards! Michaelson

thanks Michaelson, I do what I can when I can...

BTW I adjusted the pricing above to reflect current price of Belstaff's and exchange rate as opposed to the going price for one around the release of the movie.

As to why the Belstaff price tag is what it is... Belstaff is a rather large company with many retail stores and an entire network of logistics to support that, they also do make proprietary materials for much of their product line. Add to that that it often takes far more effort to duplicate the used on screen piece others have created(I am sure they spent way more dollars on their own recreation of matching look to the leather than Tony did in just purchasing the hide he wanted in the first place) and the big licensing chunk Lucas takes and you begin to understand the pricepoints. Which really aren't that far apart now it seems, as the Riley TNO offering of the standard Hero size is around $1k+ and the Belstaff is about $1592.11 at today's rate.

I'll add this as I stated in another forum when asked which I prefer... amazingly as similar as these are they are still both so different wearing, but I have a feeling from seeing the many set used jackets you would get the same difference depending which jacket you picked out of the jacket lineup.
If I was going for any of the graveyard scenes I would choose the Belstaff, but any of the scenes where Indy and Mutt first arrive down south and start looking for Oxley I would choose the Nowak.

For everyday wear for myself of the two jackets here I prefer the fit of the Belstaff due to the slimmer armholes, unless I am wearing some thick layers, then the Nowak's more generous sleeve size comes into play... but I prefer the feel of the Nowak's leather right outta the gate, as Belstaff's needs some working in to get past the initial plastic like processed stage as it comes new. What I paid always comes into play as well, and I have to say I am very happy with the quality to dollar ratio I got with both jackets...if I had bought the Belstaff for it's new-in-store price I would not say the same however, and actually would never pay that kind of $$ for one.
It's a similar situation to the OLF and LC X3 jackets... I can justify keeping the OLF around due to the price I got it, but could never justifying one bought at the new price compared to the LC jacket I have.

Understood. Price point is always based on the actual acquisiton cost it was for a buyer.

The part I really couldn't wrap my brain around was the fact that Belstaff IS such a large firm. They were/are the licensee of LFL to make the official fanbase CS jacket, and therefore should have had access to the original patterns. That said, they shouldn't have that much invested regarding pre-production costs, where Tony was a small shop that made these jackets one at a time, one order at a time. Bellstaff made them on a production line, then sent them out to their stores to sell.

One would think the cost would have been reversed....Tony being the highest, and Bellstaff being the lowest.

I think it had also to do with the 'bling' connected with the Bellstaff name that also padded that price. As you have shown so well in your photos and report, the 'differences' are so minute, they're almost not worth mentioning. If you'll recall, when Tony first introduced his jacket to the public, we were talking in the $700 range. Bellstaff was 4 figures.

The point about licensing fees, though is VERY well taken. LFL really wants a HUGE chuck of change up front before they hand out a license to anyone. THAT makes sense!

Sometimes be 'bigger' ain't necessarily 'better'.

Once again, a VERY useful and well thought out report. Thank you again!

Regards !Michaelson

Actually Belstaff even as the license holder would not have access to the original patterns, those would be Tony's alone, so Belstaff was given specific jackets to recreate their offering. After having the Belstaff in hand I can now see which particular jacket was most likely handed over to Belstaff.
Tony built jackets for the likes of you and me, not a mass produced operation for world consumption at the best dollar profit... to Belstaff's cost defense though, they had to reproduce a leather within their logistics that mimicked what Tony picked out and bought from his leather supplier, and also source all the matching hardware for a higher volume production run. As many jacket folks know it is usually far pricier to recreate what someone else created than it is to put those random pieces together the first time... just think about those first RAIDERS jackets and how cheap they were thrown together at various places compared to how much people put into trying to create that same thing over again some time later.

Interesting. With what LFL had learned from dealing with jacket makers over the past 4 films, one would think they would have learned their lesson of hanging onto the patterns.

OH yeah....the Raiders 'Holy Grail' that really doesn't exist, and yet does....sort of, kinda.....

Regards! Michaelson

Thanks theman for putting together such a thorough comparison! Both the Nowak and the Belstaff are out of my league, but I'm glad that Belstaff isn't hawking a horrible, un-accurate jacket! Whatever research, plus the jacket they replicated, really paid off! The longer collar sure makes a big difference to me!

Great review and comparison!

Tony worked some magic into where the lower seam of the yoke attaches to the arm hole seam. Somehow those corners miraculously tuck in just above your armpits, whereas other jackets will droop downward and hang. Any thoughts on how that construction is different?

Great review. I've not seen a Belstaff before and have no experience of that brand but I don't think the one here looks as good as the Nowak. It's just less compelling or less confident in it's execution IMO, no matter how close.

here's a few more shots for folks.
Nowak





Belstaff

Forrest - not sure I can explain what you are talking about, Tony did a great job on construction, but as you can see from the above since Belstaff had one in hand they duplicated that section pretty accurately.

P - Totally agree on the price point, but it was pointed out to me recently that for a true CS jacket someone in the UK would be almost paying more to bring in the Nowak over getting the Belstaff nowadays due to exchange, VAT, and such... stinks but tis the way of the world I guess. I still can't seem to break the $700 barrier for buying jackets for me personally.
I do think the "gun-in-hand" shot included here is actually a production shot as that section of filming is in the movie, so I do think Harrison is wearing the final version you talk about here...so I think all of Bernie's adjustments should be in that jacket.

The armholes on the Nowak..wow.
I had two CS jackets from Tony. The first I asked for 1 inch smaller arholes, and it looked very much like the Belstaff pictured.
The second was just a plain ol' CS with the standard bigger armholes. The first jacket was much nicer to actually wear.
Kicking myself that I sold it actually.
I have two Belstaff jackets, and they are exceptionally well made. I'd happily pay quite a lot for their version on the CS jacket.
I'll have to keep an eye out on eBay for a bargain.

Well, at least you made a friend. You could have found out the HARD way.

Regards! Michaelson

Old World grudges will nudge out prestigeous positions any day, and as unfortunate as it is, it's just how things seem to stand.

Regards! Michaelson

I think the Nowak looks a lot better, and it's obviously more screen accurate because it was made by the same person who made the movie jacket.

The Nowak's leather definitely trumps the Belstaff out of the gate, but like I said Belstaff did an excellent job replicating the look of the leather down to the grain, so at least they put the effort into it.
In fact even my lambskin Nowak RAIDERS actually outweighs the Belstaff KotCS by a substantial amount(1-2lbs)...the Belstaff CS isn't far off from being as light as a Todd's RAIDERS!

Here are a couple of photos showing my US Wings Antique Signature series antique cow, the Tony Nowak Original Crystal Skull leather and the Belstaff Indy jacket.

L-R: USW, TNO, Belstaff


L-R: Belstaff, TNO, USW

CRB, are you sure you don't mean that on the bottom photo it's
Left to Right: Belstaff, Tony Nowak, U.S. Wings?

Otherwise, that's one CA-razy trick of the light...

Whoops! Yes totally right, the Bottom photo is Belstaff, Nowak and USW ! I can't seem to be able to edit my post ?

Cool... I really just wanted to be sure that my aging eyesight hadn't just taken a LEAP in the wrong direction!

Beautiful looking jackets in these shots, though!


But I don't know what the deal is with having no "Edit" button, though... sorry.

Nice lineup CRB!
And man, you could fit your full 10ft whip in one pocket and Fedora in the other pocket on that USW! I never realized how big theirs were until you posted these shots...
Also that quilted lining is really cool, I mean hot, in that TNO. Was your TNO built to Harrison Ford sizing or custom fit to you?

theman wrote:Nice lineup CRB!
And man, you could fit your full 10ft whip in one pocket and Fedora in the other pocket on that USW! I never realized how big theirs were until you posted these shots...
Also that quilted lining is really cool, I mean hot, in that TNO. Was your TNO built to Harrison Ford sizing or custom fit to you?

Yes, I never realised either until I saw all three together. I've actually since sold the USW and TNO - I couldn't justify keeping 3 CS jackets. And seeing as the Belstaff fit me the best, that's the one I kept. Plus I'm looking forward to roughing it up a lot as it looks too new at the moment. Oh and the fact I'm a Belstaff nut.

The TNO wasn't mine originally but I saw this for sale in my specs so went for it as TNOs don't come up very often in my size. I don't actually know what HF's sizes were for CS but I think do take very close to what he has, albeit I have a slightly longer torso than him. The quilted lining probably contributed very slightly to the overall weight of the jacket, which was the main reason I let it go. The leather was superb on it and the new owner is lucky to be holding a piece of jacket history, if you know what I mean.

A coat of Pecards on the Belstaff has brought the colour much more in line with the TNO original. The Belstaff is a very dry leather when new, so can soak a ton of Pecard's up !

I noticed that too CRB... a bit dry and plasticy feeling beforehand. Figured a hit of leather lotion would definitely do some good for the Belstaff, and glad to see the results worked out on yours nicely.
The TNO doesn't need the treatment out of the gate as the leather feels like it has more natural oils in it, but I have seen the nice affect it does have when applied to the TNO as well.

I think the leather that Belstaff used for it was called 'Vintage' (their name) whereas almost every other leather jacket Belstaff make uses 'Replica'. Explains why it's clearly different when new (dry, almost suede-like).