The original felt maker found....

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:45 pm

Check out this post. Astounding, and we can thank Redbeard!!

http://www.indygear.com/forum/viewtopic ... 563#56563I am so excited to finally know where the hat bodies for Raiders came from. And, they probably still make the same felt and color. I will know when I hear from them. regards, Fedora[/url]

Kittlemeier · Post by **Kittlemeier** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 4:06 pm

Their name has popped up a couple of times over the years on the old COW and you can probably find a couple of posts on Indyfan. Doctor_Jones from Belgium http://www.indygear.com/forum/profile.p ... rofile&u=6 has one of their hats and they pop up on ebay here and there. I've tried emailing them several times but have never gotten satisfactory answers. Hopefully this is the producer and something was just lost in the translation. K

Redbeard · Post by **Redbeard** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 4:21 pm

I wasn't aware of what I might have found. I looked through ebay germany when I found this auktion for his (as he claims it) Indiana Jones movie whip * exclusive and original *. The whip didn't look as cheap as the usual stuff we find on ebay but didn't look original too. So I followed the link to his page and the first thing noticed was (naturally) the crappy design. The pictures looked like cheap imitations too. But then I saw the certificate and the news paper clipping. So I decided not to judge, and better say nothing but let the specialists here have a look. I'm still not sure is this good or not. There are really big words on the site but the picture you get speaks out totally different.

I am confused....

Cheers,
Redbeard

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:04 pm

Fedora I'm excited to what you find out. This is not the first who claims, that they made the original hats for the movies, so I cannot deny that I'm skeptic, but I'd also like to thank Redbeard for making this public.

The German firm, that sells this stuff must be somewhere close to where I live. Judging by the phonenumber...

Regards,

Marc

Post by **Jens** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:17 pm

On the bottom of that page there is some advertising. At one of these compynies I bought my first Indy-hat, a licensed but not really authentic version, the "Mayser" if someone know it. So there is a connection to other Indy stuff, LICENSED by Lucasarts ...

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:38 pm

Can anyone translate that second newspaper article? I see the words Texas and Europe mentioned. Hopefully I will get a response from Cury. I am still getting this feeling that this may be the company from Brazil that supplied the fur felt bodies to HJ. And if so, this means that the original felt and color is within our grasps.......and that would settle something once and for all. The actual color. regards, Fedora

Bushman · Post by **Bushman** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:12 pm

Fedora,

Did you notice that among the hats on the Cury website (under "Western") is the "Australiano"?

Didn't someone recently remark that on the DVD bonus disk Indy's hat is called a "Herbert Johnson Australiano"?

I'm not suggesting they are the same hat, but couldn't HJ have used an "Australiano" hat body?

Bushman

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:17 pm

It is plausible. Did you see that straight edged dimensional cut that is pictured in the newspaper article? Maybe they told Cury that HJ dimensionally cut the Indy hat, and this was what they thought was meant by the term.

The plot thickens.

Fedora

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:28 pm

Ah, it's so nice to see all these mysteries we've been wondering about for years starting to fit together like a jigsaw puzzle. :junior: -IJ

IndianaJames · Post by **IndianaJames** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:54 pm

After watching all the DVDs I really want to start over and find a good screen accurate fedora....this is very interesting if its true!

I J

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:44 am

So far we have

Herbert Johnson--We made all the hats for all the films.
Gary White-- I made hats for Last Crusade
Baron Hats-- Our hats were worn in Temple of Doom.

and now Curry. I am very skeptical about this company at the moment.

Saying "The original felt maker found...." is a very misleading title for this thread until it is proven.

Hmmmm.

Jsoftz · Post by **Jsoftz** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:57 am

Mattdeckard wrote:So far we have

Herbert Johnson--We made all the hats for all the films.
Gary White-- I made hats for Last Crusade
Baron Hats-- Our hats were worn in Temple of Doom.

and now Curry. I am very skeptical about this company at the moment.

Saying "The original felt maker found...." is a very misleading title for this thread until it is proven.

Hmmmm.

Isn't there some other company who also claims that? Locke, Co., or something?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:07 am

To my knowledge, HJ was never featured in a newspaper as the supplier, although we know that they did supply hats for all 3 films. We know that Gary White was full of it, and even got into a bit of legal trouble over his claims. He never supplied hats for the Indy films, and had to be called on it. Now, we do know that Mr. Swales said that the Raiders felt was of Brazilian origin, but the supplier closed its doors. This last part may not be a fact, as Hj has changed its felt body suppliers as often as we change our underwear. And all of the companies that supplied HJ with felt over the years did not close their doors. That Cury was the Brazilian company that made the felt bodies is documented in a Brazilian newspaper, and I think this is credible. Cury has been around since the 1920's, and is a reputable company that actually makes the felt, unlike Barons and Gary White. I think that stating the felt supplier was found was based upon much more hard documentation that just rumors. Of course, the chap may be a bald faced liar. Normally though, I do believe what I read in the papers.

regards, Fedora

PS The Locke company only said that HF bought a personal hat from them. You guys need to do some serious reading of years go by. It is all here-somewhere.

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:53 am

Unless HJ told this Brazilian company the felt was their felt, the only direct resource we have is HJ.

HJ could have got the felt from anywhere, so the persons to speak with would be at HJ.

Only Herbert Johnson can confirm or deny the Brazilian companies claims.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:14 am

Matt wrote: Only Herbert Johnson can confirm or deny the Brazilian companies claims

ANd even HJ could not do it. It was sold after Raiders was made, to Swaine Aidney, although Richard Swales stayed on. He was the one that Spielberg and Ford met with, and the one that did the original cut on the hat. Mr. Swales has been known to tell contradictary stories over the years, and never was specific as to the Brazilian comapany's name. He may have never known it, depending on how the business was run. Or he may have not remembered. Why he never named the company when being drilled by numerous gear fans, one can only guess. What we need for conclusive proof is a paper trail, but as we all know, this will never happen. So, we take newspaper articles like the one posted regarding Cury providing the hats for the film, and we remember Mr. Swales saying the Raiders felt came from Brazil, and we realize that the Cury company is in Brazil, and...........the mind starts clicking. Good detective fodder. Since Mr. Swales has retired and no longer available, the next best thing to do is to talk to Cury, if they will even communicate with folks like us.

A good detective would do just that. That is what much of the Indy gear thing is about. Trying to see through the fog of time, and the memories of old men. Perhaps my post heading was inaccurate. Time will tell. regards, Fedora

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:29 am

I am not against investigating.

Only Herbert Johnson can confirm or deny the Brazilian companies claims.

If the Brazilian company sent bodies to Herbert Johnson then that is a lead.
If you can get them to confirm this then we may have something.

The original felt maker found....

should read
The original felt maker found?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:06 am

Aw shucks. What's a few .........and ????????? among friends?

At any rate, the heading to the post stands, because I am convinced the Brazilian felt came from Brazil. It is my opinion, based upon credible evidence(the newspaper article and the document of certification), and heresay, i.e. Mr. Swales' statement. After mulling over this felt body issue for years, all of this makes sense to me. That it would be any company besides Cury is nonsensical to me. So, I state this as a belief. You don't need question marks after a statement of belief.

Fedora

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:13 am

I searched Brazilian hat makers a year ago and bookmarked the Cury site. No mention of Indy or Indy looking hats then either. Maybe Indy isn't that popular in S.A..... Fedora said the hat making movie was good, and it IS - hat making start to finish. Check the nice redish yellowish brown color of the last hat in the Social hats. http://www.chapeuscury.com.br/ingles/produtos.htm Good luck to us on this :!:

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:28 am

The old Indy Diggs webpage used to have a pic of a Cury in its Indy hat line up. Didn't look much like an Indy hat though. The Cury article mentioned sales in the US, hat bodies, I assume. I know you can't find a Cury hat online, or at least I have had no luck. I look forward to hearing from them. I thought the history was interesting regarding Cury bringing in European and US hatters to train them in felt production with the modern equipment that they added in the 70's. I would love to see some of the Cury rabbit felt up close. I would bet that it is better than what Hatco is producing. Fedora

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:29 am

It is my opinion, based upon credible evidence(the newspaper article and the document of certification)

That it would be any company besides Cury is nonsensical to me

Believe what you wish. I will be the skeptical one til the the Grail gives life.

There are several feltmakers in South America.

Hopefully you will find a connection to Herbert Johnson which will prove your belief that this is the one.

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:47 am

Could someone just ask them in an email if they have it on their books of ever having supplied felt to HJ in the last 25 years?

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:25 am

On my first trip to Optimo with pics of the Indy hat Graham even said at first glance that it looks like an Australian outback hat that had the brim cut down. He may have been right on the money.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:53 am

Matt wrote: There are several feltmakers in South America

I am not so sure that there are felt makers there that export. Like Charlie said, the felt making world is small, with few producers in the network. So few in fact, that most are well know to the the other hatters. What would be funny is if Cury supplies the hats for the Official Indy Hat.

Talk about a blow to my argument.

Fedora

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:09 pm

Dr. Jones of Belgium was indeed the first 'discoverer' of this company, and shared several of his emails with me from the folks down there. He was supposed to be following through on confirming this, but he had school work that slowed him down, then his computer crashed taking a lot of those original emails with it, and so on and so on, so the trail went cold. We experienced a like mail server crash, and I lost all copies of the emails too, dang it.

He had/has one of their fedoras, and if I remember correctly, isn't real happy with it right now, due to taper etc. He did call them to get information, and they were pretty cagey about the full story, so I find it VERY interesting that NOW they're saying they'll provide a COA now, when before they said them provided the bodies, but really didn't want to talk about it.

Dr. Jones, if you're out there, how about chiming in if you're about. Regards. Michaelson

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:15 pm

I guess I am gonna have to bring out the lamp once again and search for on honest man-or in this case, an honest hatter. Perhaps the term honest hatter is an oxymoron?

regards, Fedora

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:35 am

I just heard back from Cury. They maintain that they supplied the felt bodies to HJ for the Raiders fedora. They will even sell me the same body, same color, minimal order of 12, at 25.00 each plus shipping. Fedora

DanoSaurus · Post by **DanoSaurus** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:12 am

Fedora wrote:I just heard back from Cury. They maintain that they supplied the felt bodies to HJ for the Raiders fedora. They will even sell me the same body, same color, minimal order of 12, at 25.00 each plus shipping. Fedora

Count me in! Oh but, um where can I have the body made into a hat?

Modern Jones · Post by **Modern Jones** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:23 am

Count me in, as well Fedora!!! Are the "ready to be blocked" bodies?

Skip

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:39 am

Can you get some samples first? I'm very interested in this as well. I can bring it to Optimo and have them make it for me if all is good. $25 sounds pretty cheap. Almost too cheap. Samples would be very, very good befire making an invesment on something that may or may not be of quility.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:42 am

Not necessarily, agent5. Considering it's coming from Brazil, and directly from the maker at that, the cost SHOULDN'T be all the high, as all middle men have been eliminated, and items from South America have always been pretty reasonable, even at regular retail cost. This cost was quoted at no less than 12, so there is also the quantity discount to consider.....

Regards. Michaelson

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:44 am

Interesting... you might count me in as well... just give me a week or so.

Regards,

Marc

Farnham54 · Post by **Farnham54** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:46 am

I would be interested if I knew of a place that would make it into a full blown hat for not too much money!

Regards,

Farn

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:53 am

Did I read this right? Hare bodies for $25?

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:12 pm

Hey Farnham,

there are plenty of choices depending on where you are (but you don't wanna tell, right

)

-Petersbros (well, not from November to March)
-Optimo (though they won't put their liner into other peoples hat, but they have the right ribbon)
-###### (I don't know about his blocks yet, but the new white liners and beautiful sweatbands are on their way and he custom dies the ribbon for mine).

and last but not least: our very own extraordinairy master hatter: Fedora!!! (depending on your head size)

Regards,

Marc

IndianaJames · Post by **IndianaJames** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:17 pm

Probably not much a chance of getting a look at the felt before buying.... might have to take a shot in the dark!

I J

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:32 pm

I am surprised as many folks are interested.

I never had any intent on buying any of the felt bodies, but if you guys want to, and we can get enough to get the minimal shipment, well, I am game. First we must find a supplier for sweatbands and liners. The ribbon issue would not be a problem since Pyro has access to some nice ribbon. I have not worked out any details on the sweatband and liners, and we must remember that these are raw bodies. They would have to be blocked and pounced. I don't know of a hatter right off that would finish a hat out for us, but we can all do some research. Cury did tell me that the more you buy, the cheaper the price. As for as this being cheap, I think you guys are getting an insight on what rabbit felt bodies really cost. I have always said that the markup on hats is astronomical, but then again value is added in the finishing stage. I have no doubts that I could block and pounce a raw hat body, but I only have two blocks, a 7 1/4 and a 7 3/8(Michaelsons LC block).

If all of you are interested, we can work out the details, but any help on sourcing would be great. As usual, I am not out to make a dime, just part of the hobby. The quality of Cury's rabbit felt is probably on par with other rabbit felt. I don't think they sell trash. You may find that after you buy the body, and then pay someone like Optimo to finish the hat, you could buy an Optimo for the same price. It is something we must look into before you buy a hat body. Something to think about. regards, Fedora

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:36 pm

sounds like you have the begenings of a hats shop

David · Post by **David** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:40 pm

Fedora,

I am interested in going in on the hat bodies as well. Keep us posted and let us know if there is anything we can do to help in the search for pieces or parts!

Sincerely,

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:43 pm

Heck, you got my block....what more do you need?

Regards. Michaelson

Paulcrastination · Post by **Paulcrastination** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:57 pm

I'm in, just lemme know when you need the cash.

LNBright · Post by **LNBright** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:36 pm

I've just gotten my Fed Deluxe bashed up and starting to get it to break in a bit, and I'm already wanting to buy a hat body for another one?

It's an addiction, but I like it.....

Ribbon's not gonna be bad to do. A sweatband, I think I can manage that too. Worst case, I get my wife to sew up a liner for it if I can't find something like already available....

Yeah, I'm in for a body.....

-Les

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:39 pm

Please allow me to be in on this too. We could always get some satin from a fabric store and leather by the skin from Tandy leather. I'd sure like putting one together from scratch. If it's really the same felt as the 81 Poet, we should be able to tell. Any way I'm in.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:42 pm

Blank, white liners shouldn't be hard to get - either by buying them or making them ourselves. But what REALLY could turn to be a problem is the sweatband. As far as I know, there are only three companies in the U.S. producing high quality leather sweatbands and these companies will hardly sell as little as 12. I found a sweatband producer here in Germany and even got a sample, but to be honest, it's the worst piece of @#$% I've ever seen and not even worth to be put into a 25$ hat. If a whole bunch of ribbons would be dyed at once (like Dalexs did with Pyroxene's ribbon) a lot of costs could be saved. And I'm sure that Mike could make a beautiful crest for the liner (if he would be so kind). This could become an interesting project: something like the official C.O.W. Indy Fedora, made from the felt of the original supplier, for a fraction of what custom hats usually cost.

But, I doubt that the quality of the felt will come close to what we're used to here, and even if it's from the same producer, same color, etc. the quality might not be the same as twenty years ago. Just a thought.

Regards,

Marc

indy_guitarist · Post by **indy_guitarist** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:43 pm

yeah, i'm definitley in too. i've been looking for that company for a long time. let me know what you need from me. fedora, i wear a size 7 1/8, will your 7 1/4 block accomodate me? again, let me know whatever you need.

Cabinetman · Post by **Cabinetman** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:44 pm

Count me in, too.

I appreciate your tenacity, Fedora. Looking forward to seeing how all this develops.

Cab

Farnham54 · Post by **Farnham54** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:48 pm

So do you folks suppose that a person who has never PROPERLY sewn anything can finish a hat to wearable condition?

I'd be in, but I would need some guidance on a) where to get the stuff and b) how to put it all together. If someone doesn't mind answering a few questions on process, then sure I'll be in.

Regards,

Farn

Fortune and Glory · Post by **Fortune and Glory** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:56 pm

consider me in as well. i've already been lucky enough to see the results that come off Fedora's block once (as luckily, i'm a 7 1/4) and the Cury website has stoked my interest to the point that i simply must be a part of the endeavor. there's a hat or two on their website that really make me think Fedora might be on to something, here.

let us know what you need, Fedora. i'll do some asking around in the hat shops in these parts re: components.

F&G

Band Director Jones · Post by **Band Director Jones** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:21 pm

indy_guitarist wrote:yeah, i'm definitley in too. i've been looking for that company for a long time. let me know what you need from me. fedora, i wear a size 7 1/8, will your 7 1/4 block accomodate me? again, let me know whatever you need.

Ditto. I'd love to have one of these but I too am a 7 1/8

JohnNdy · Post by **JohnNdy** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:46 pm

I'm in also...I would love to get a hold of one of those hat bodies. Liners aren't a problem...I have a nice Raiders block for a 7 1/8 and can't we order sweat bands from hat's direct!? I seem to remember someone getting a new sweatband for a Fed around here...maybe not. Alternatively, one could go to a vintage clothing store, buy a worthless old hat for 5 bucks and use the sweatband from that. Sewing one in just takes confidence, careful measurments, and a LOT of patience in stitching. At any rate, this could be the start of something very good!

-John

David · Post by **David** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:18 pm

Any chance that Hatsdirect could be involved by importing the felt bodies and building the hat?

They have always been interested in helping us out. Perhaps they would like to be the ones who produce the new "official" Indy fedora using the original felt bodies.

Hmmmm........

The original felt maker found....

The original felt maker found....

Cury hat body