Wade Egan's CS holster in development (PICTURES)

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:04 am

Does anyone else have pictures of the screen used KotCS Webley holster?
Has anyone created an accurate version of this holster, not just sewn the end up and dyed it black?

Here's a photo taken by a COW member. Wade Egan looked at this photo and believes it MAY be the screened used one due to its markings and blemishes. If this is in fact the real deal then these are some of the things I've noticed about it in comparison to both replicas and even many original versions.

1. The real one is known to be a modified original Webley 455 holster
(plug in bottom removed and sewn closed).
2. The top flap appears to be back a little from the top front edge.
Could be an illusion due to the angle of the shot.
3. The strap shape appears to have a consistent width and the pointed end seems sharper and triangular in cut.
4. The strap has a single hole and not a slot, dual holes or a combination of these.
5. The stud's location seems more towards the center of the top flap than most.
6. The stud appears round and not flat headed and made of brass.
7. It appears to have been dyed black or very dark brown (areas rubbed off to expose the rust colored leather).

BIG version here.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6007/598 ... 662b_b.jpg

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:42 pm

Another point to make note of is that the pocket is very deep. You can see clearly in this photo that the top of the pocket extends at least two inches above the cylinder latch. Typical holsters of the time weren't made for 'quick draw' and so the pocket was very deep with only the butt of the gun extending out of it. The deeper pocket leads to the smaller flap hence the flap doesn't cover the full pocket edge here (also due to the stud being placed more center of the flap and extreme weathering of the leather leading to 'stretching'). Technically, anyone carrying a firearm in a flap holster is looking to protect the pistol from the elements and this configuration allows dust and rain into the pocket. Screen accurate yes. Optimally functional no.

I can make a screen accurate holster just like this, however I am personally more in favor of a holster whose flap covers the pocket and allows more of the grip to grab on to when pulling the pistol out of the holster. Personal preference I guess.

This particular holster seems to me to be a hybrid of the 2nd Boer War style flap holster and the .455 Webley MKVI holster from WWI. Typical holsters of the British military during that period had the end plug and the stud was farther back on the flap (they were also more commonly brown in color not black). The Flap holsters from the 2nd Boer War (1899-1902) have the more centered stud placement and end plug. The sidearm during the Boer War was the Webley MKIV .455 first produced in 1899. It seems the prop department once again went out of their way to make it hard on us.

W

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:34 pm

Just as I thought someone has asked me to recreate this exact holster from lantzn's provided pic. So... I will have the pattern done in the next few days and will probably make a couple of them so I have one on hand. If anyone else wants one just message me.

W.E.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:16 am

Wade Egan wrote:Just as I thought someone has asked me to recreate this exact holster from lantzn's provided pic. So... I will have the pattern done in the next few days and will probably make a couple of them so I have one on hand. If anyone else wants one just message me.

W.E.

I will Wade, but it'll have to be in a month or so because I just bought a Jacka CS 10' Whip and that blew my Indy budget for awhile. My wife is more use to me getting $200 or less items and that whip shocked her system.

...and I'll need the gun belt and super whip holder to match. Got a Rook WG and whip with no way to carry them.

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:30 pm

I'm just glad I'm not married.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:36 pm

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:57 pm

No disrespect meant of course. You're very lucky if you have found a significant other who understands and participates in your hobby. Most of the women I've ever met don't understand much less participate in my hobbies. The most they do is ask me to make them a belt or repair a hand bag and whatnot.

I'm not quite the marrying kind anyway.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:49 am

Wade Egan wrote:No disrespect meant of course. You're very lucky if you have found a significant other who understands and participates in your hobby. Most of the women I've ever met don't understand much less participate in my hobbies. The most they do is ask me to make them a belt or repair a hand bag and whatnot.

I'm not quite the marrying kind anyway.

I couldn't help myself, I come from a long line of marrying folk.

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:35 am

Wade Egan wrote:Just as I thought someone has asked me to recreate this exact holster from lantzn's provided pic. So... I will have the pattern done in the next few days and will probably make a couple of them so I have one on hand. If anyone else wants one just message me.

W.E.

That would be ME

I figured, since other people are interested in the pics I took of the holster, I might as well get one made.

Kyle

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:42 pm

Working on these today. I'm going to go ahead and make 4 of them so I have some on hand once people see how cool yours is Kyle.

W

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:45 pm

Wade,

Put me down for one!

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:57 pm

Also, Check these photos out of the screen-used costume on tour and photos from the production of the holster:

Just thought these might help.

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:44 pm

They're too small to really see any of the holster

Kyle

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:58 am

Where did that first one come from? A large version of that would be awesome.

Here's another;

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:44 am

Ok, I was working on this today and hope to have the pattern tomorrow. I'm going to make four to start. Once the photos are up I'm sure I'll have more takers. This is a good time to do these before the Halloween rush. I'm in the process of upgrading my site with photos of all the different versions of the gear from each film. Holsters included. I've been wanting to nail the CS holster for that purpose. Thanks for all the great photos guys!

W

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:41 am

With the permission of the moderators, I'll be more than happy to post larger resolution pictures of each of the pictures I posted. Due to the large size of each, I'd like to make sure it's OK with the moderators and get their suggestion on how to re-post these pictures.

Once I hear from them, I'll get them posted asap.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:09 pm

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:53 pm

lantzn wrote:I tend to post by the rules photos and then below them a URL to my flickr account with the high red version. This makes everyone happy.

Lantzn,

Thanks for the response. I use a photobucket account, so if you're familiar at all with that particular photo sharing site, could you walk me through how to post the URL to make sure the pictures are viewed easily? I'm fairly new with photobucket and I can honestly say that it's not exactly a "user friendly" site to work with.

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:56 pm

Here's a larger version of the production photo:

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:45 am

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:40 pm

Deleted as they didn't help.

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:34 pm

The pics are still too small to see any detail. Thanks for trying though.

Kyle

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:53 pm

Here is one of the pictures I took of the holster when I got a private viewing of it. MODS this is a LARGE photo, but I'm just using it to show detail. If you'd like me to edit it, I can just provide the link instead.

Kyle

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:25 pm

knibs7 wrote:They're too small to really see any of the holster

Kyle

knibs7 wrote:The pics are still too small to see any detail. Thanks for trying though.

Kyle

Well, I strongly beg to differ on these comments. To say that they're too small to see "any detail" is ludicrous. They're big enough to see the general shape of all the main parts - the body shape, the general shape of the flap, the closure flap, etc. I'd also like to point out what I think I see as a difference between the production photo of the holster and the close-up of the one Knibs posted. On the production photo it looks like there's a slight symmetrical angling and curved edging to the flap strap, whilst Knibs's photo has straight even sides with a curve on the top part and a sharp point on the bottom part of the flap strap. However, I could be wrong.

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:58 pm

I was just talking about the details of the pictures not showing up well... I appreciate you posting the pictures and I CAN see the general shape of the holster very well from your photos. I guess I was just assuming lantzn wanted the 100% accuracy aspect of the holster. I wasn't trying to be rude.

Kyle

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:19 am

And actually, I think they ARE the same holster

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy23 ... arison.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kyle

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:13 pm

Great photos guys! Thanks for that. I'm quite certain we have the pattern down and I'm pumping out 4 of these as we speak. I've used a special color combination to replicate the top color and the wear color on the screen used holster. Should have one done tonight so I can post photos soon.

W.E.

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:24 pm

Wade,

Two questions:

1) Can one of these be made in the dark brown color seen on the pictures w/o the lighter red rubbing?
2) You had mentioned to me once that you know exactly what type of leather Jake Johnson used on his CS holsters. It's more supple and soft than your general leather offering and I was wondering - is it possible to make this holster in that same type of leather?

I think this holster would be great in that particular leather type with the darker brown color with "natural" distressing to it. So if it's possible and depending on the price, I might pop on both just so I have them to decide later which is best for my needs!

Thanks Wade for being such a passionate and dedicated leather-smith. It's people like you that make such projects as this a reality. I tip my hat to you!

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:37 pm

I realize we probably have more than enough to get the job done, but here's another picture of the holster:

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab77 ... IM0311.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's kind of hazy as the only way I could successfully copy the picture was to take a picture of it with a camera. The location of it in the book is right along the seam line and to scan it in that location would mean pressing down HARD on the spine which is NOT GOOD for any book. So if it helps, great! If not, enjoy it for what it is.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:53 am

IndyRiv wrote:The location of it in the book is right along the seam line and to scan it in that location would mean pressing down HARD on the spine which is NOT GOOD for any book. So if it helps, great! If not, enjoy it for what it is.

There are places that have what's called a "book" scanner. The book sits in them opened at about 90 degrees and the pages are scanned. Many book binderies and archival centers have them. Just a thought if you have a rare image to scan.
Google book scanner to see them.

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:18 pm

I've completed the first holster for this project and will have several more done by the end of the week. I used premium grade soft leather with a nice smooth under side and this one has the two tone dye process. Yes, IndyRiv, I can make it in just the dark brown without the reddish hue underneath no problem! I believe I was able to nail the weight and color of the screen used holster here. With aging it will loosen up and look just like the holster pictured above.

Here's a shot with flash and without for your review:

No flash:

Flash:

The first two are spoken for. I will have two more available in the next couple days.

W.E.

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:46 pm

THAT'S more like it! Great work buddy!

Kyle

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:03 pm

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! I love it. Gotta have...see my email.

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:53 pm

Note that the following comments are NOT intended to degrade or nag on Wade's work. Quite the contrary. I just want to point out some things in the prototype that perhaps may need changing.

One thing that stood out to me right away was the flap that holds the cover closed. In the pictures presented versus the prototype, it looks like the screen holster has a wider flap as well as more pronounced curved edging to the point.

Also, between the two (the production photo holster and the prototype), it seems like the curve of the holster right below the trigger guard outline could be more pronounced.

1st Picture - the Production Photo I'm referring to and used in comparison
2nd Picture - the areas that I see are different between the production and prototype. There should be more leather area between the gun outlines and the bottom should angle a little more straight up according to my eye.
3rd Picture - a "very rough" drawing (my hands shake and I'm not very good with "mouse" drawing) of what the holster, I feel, should more look like... again, according to what I'm seeing.

Just my two cents on what I see that could possibly be changed or is different.

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:20 pm

I think I know what IndyRiv is talking about. IndyRiv please correct me if I'm wrong, but is this what you would want changed?

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy23 ... adjust.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kyle

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:30 pm

Keep in mind you're comparing a fully worn in holster to a brand new one. The flap hasn't had a chance to settle yet at all. The whole thing would stretch out a bit if given the right amount of working over and breaking in.

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:37 pm

Wade Egan wrote:Keep in mind you're comparing a fully worn in holster to a brand new one. The flap hasn't had a chance to settle yet at all. The whole thing would stretch out a bit if given the right amount of working over and breaking in.

"Fully worn in"= 20 minutes in the props dept.

Kyle

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:44 pm

Kyle,

Thanks for your picture. You're not far off at all!

What REALLY stood out to me was the closure strap (the strap that keeps the holster flap down). I guess I'm just seeing that that strap could be wider and, in the case of the production photo, it looks like it tapers "wider" as it goes to the point. Also, the curve of the point could be more pronounced and start back further than the prototype. Anyone else see that?

Also, here's the area that I found inconsistent as far as widths, amount of leather space between key outlines (trigger guards, frame, etc) goes:

I like your curve you drew up around the trigger guard area Kyle and that's what I was aiming for as well to portray on what could be changed. I am looking at my original WWI Webley holster as we speak and that area is more pronounced in its curve like you and I tried to draw.

I don't know - does that all make sense?

I can picture what I'm saying in my head and it seems simplistic but to convey it in both words and pictures has never been an easy thing for me to do. So let me know either way and I'll see what I can do to help better!

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:53 pm

I hear what you're saying Indy Riv. It's not that big of a deal to add some extra shape to the bucket. Also keep in mind that I do have a WG in the holster for these pics and when I take it out the flap drops down considerably. I'm quite sure there's no gun in the holster in the production photos you've posted so you have to account for that as well.

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:06 am

Wade Egan wrote:I hear what you're saying Indy Riv. It's not that big of a deal to add some extra shape to the bucket. Also keep in mind that I do have a WG in the holster for these pics and when I take it out the flap drops down considerably. I'm quite sure there's no gun in the holster in the production photos you've posted so you have to account for that as well.

The bucket... yeh, I guess that term sounds correct!

I'm not good with the technical terms, sorry Wade!

I don't have any real problem with the actual flap itself. I agree fully that a gun wasn't in the holster when any of the pictures we've posted were taken (the traveling exhibit, the screen still - Indy's got the gun in his hand then, or the production photo).

What I saw was the strap that attaches to the brass stud needs to be wider and the end of it could use revising to more closely match the production or Kyle's photo more with a more curved edging to it. But I honestly believe that that particular strap is wider than the prototype you made. Again Wade - I'm not out to get you or anything. You're as dedicated to getting this as right as can be as we are so I'm just throwing out what I see could be revised.

Lastly, besides the bucket area, (and again, I'm using the production photo), I think the bottom could be narrowed just a touch more as well. To me, it seems a big wide yet in comparison to the production photo.

Let me know what you think of these areas.

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:17 am

Wade Egan wrote: I'm quite sure there's no gun in the holster in the production photos you've posted so you have to account for that as well.

Aw man here we go again... something that could be nothing or could be a gun

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy23 ... nornot.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kyle

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:27 am

knibs7 wrote:
Wade Egan wrote: I'm quite sure there's no gun in the holster in the production photos you've posted so you have to account for that as well.
Aw man here we go again... something that could be nothing or could be a gun

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy23 ... nornot.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kyle

You're telling me! I'm doing a double

on this as well!

Since you posted it Kyle, what's the leather piece on the right side of the holster that looks like it has two rivets in it? It doesn't look like the keeper as I think that's at the top where the hook is?

AND... if you want me to throw another somewhat related/unrelated monkey-wrench into the deal, I've been trying hard to find a good screen still of the tip of the gunbelt as the flat end of the one in the picture you have just didn't seem "right" to me (not saying it isn't, just that it didn't look right). However, every picture I've found of him wearing the belt (which, I might add, is only for a very short time in the film from when he arrives in Peru to when he's captured by Mac/Russians in the cemetery) doesn't show the end real well. So what's the correct end to the gun belt?

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:36 am

IndyRiv wrote: So what's the correct end to the gun belt?

One of two things happened and I've discussed the first one with Wade...

1) The gun belt on display was NOT the one in the movie
2) The gun belt on display was technically production used, but not in the movie, only in promo shots such as this...

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy23 ... elttip.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(I did some serious lightening of the picture to show the end of the belt)

Kyle

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:44 am

Indeed,

That's what I thought as well that the gunbelt in the exhibit was not used in the film itself which is what I know you and I are focusing on - what we actually see IN the film.

Any pictures you have (either of gear itself or screen stills) that show what the end of the gunbelt looks like in CS? Just wondering as I want to make sure I have it dead-on right.

Also, going back to the pants fabric - you mentioned that you thought Magnoli's Camel in English wool looked great to you for CS. Could you give me your full reasoning behind your belief on that? Again, just curious to know WHY you think that.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:47 am

From what I read the Indy 4 holster was a modified original. I have looked at tons of original WWI/II Webley 455 holsters and most don't have the strap knob sitting towards the center of the flap which makes me wonder who the manufacturer was.

I just say this sell on the big auction site and it has a similar knob location and more curve at the trigger edge. I wonder if this could have been made by the same company. This is in such good shape it might make for a good reference. Just a thought.

Compare it with these originals and see what most look like I run across.
Halfway down the page.
http://www.germanmilitaria.com/OtherNat ... anWW1.html

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:02 am

Lantzn,

Here are some pictures of my original Webley holster. The brass stud seems to be more in the middle like you mentioned:

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:17 am

Here are some shots of the end of the belt. The picture quality is kinda bad because for some reason my new MacBook Pro takes the screen shot, but the picture is a white and grey checkered pattern, so I had to take these with my phone... And I find it weird that Harrison originally DID have the gun belt the same way as the previous films, but then changed it.

I also included another picture of the holster.

IndyRiv wrote:
Also, going back to the pants fabric - you mentioned that you thought Magnoli's Camel in English wool looked great to you for CS. Could you give me your full reasoning behind your belief on that? Again, just curious to know WHY you think that.

I think the English wool is a closer material than cavalry twill because I've seen and touched the costume that was on display with my own hands and it felt and reacted a lot more like my Magnoli pants in English wool. The pants material for CS was definitely NOT cavalry twill.

Kyle

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:29 am

knibs7 wrote:Here are some shots of the end of the belt. The picture quality is kinda bad because for some reason my new MacBook Pro takes the screen shot, but the picture is a white and grey checkered pattern, so I had to take these with my phone... And I find it weird that Harrison originally DID have the gun belt the same way as the previous films, but then changed it.

I also included another picture of the holster.

IndyRiv wrote:
Also, going back to the pants fabric - you mentioned that you thought Magnoli's Camel in English wool looked great to you for CS. Could you give me your full reasoning behind your belief on that? Again, just curious to know WHY you think that.
I think the English wool is a closer material than cavalry twill because I've seen and touched the costume that was on display with my own hands and it felt and reacted a lot more like my Magnoli pants in English wool. The pants material for CS was definitely NOT cavalry twill.

Kyle

Kyle,

A lot to comment on with your post (GOOD comments of course!

).

First, the screen grabs. I was wondering, when you have a lot of free-time, if you could somehow get better resolution pictures of the ones you posted. They're a great help as they are, but they'd be even GREATER if the resolution was better. It's kind of hard to see the exact curve of the gunbelt end with them. The same goes for the holster, which, I have to say, is a GREAT PICTURE as well and is more broadside which really shows the curve, design, and nuances of the holster. And honestly, looking at the flap strap (is there a more "official" term for that thing - "flap strap" just doesn't sound right to me

) on that picture, it looks more like the one on my original Webley holster. I'm experiencing

vue again!

As for the trousers, thanks for your input. I've been REALLY trying to watch the flow, drape, and action of the trousers in CS to see if I could pinpoint, based on the fabric reaction, what kind of fabric it is and I'm thinking more on the concensus with you that it's wool. I thought perhaps it might be cotton due to other theories that a lot of the costume had to be changed due to the large amount of water it would be subject to. However, unless Magnoli's cotton reacts much differently than, say my cotton twill dress trousers or vintage cotton OG-105's, cotton is usually more tough and doesn't wave near as easily in the wind as wool does and Indy's pants sure do dance around which lends me to believe they're wool. And given your close-up pictures of the weave of the trousers, it sure looks like the weave of the wool Camel fabric!

Indeed, definitely NOT Cavalry twill - can't understand why though

If they used wool anyway, why not stay consistent with the other films and use the same weave too?

I thought you were also referring to the color as well being pretty good. And while I love the fabric color of the Camel, the ones in the film are definitely pink, and, I feel, a spot on match with the Noel Howard LC trousers. Any thoughts on the color in relation to your viewing of them?

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:07 pm

IndyRiv wrote: First, the screen grabs.

If someone can tell me what to do about my MacBook not taking screen shots from the DVD player (even though it's making the shutter sound and it DOES take a picture, it just won't show up when I try to open it) then I'll be more than happy to take better quality pictures.

IndyRiv wrote: And while I love the fabric color of the Camel, the ones in the film are definitely pink, and, I feel, a spot on match with the Noel Howard LC trousers. Any thoughts on the color in relation to your viewing of them?

Ah, yet another example of the never-ending "lighting phenomenon..."

As with any other item of gear in the films, the pants appear to be "pink" in some scenes such as these...

But when I saw them in person, I found that THIS was the TRUE color

Oh and here is another shot of the end of the gun belt

Kyle

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:16 pm

Here is another shot of the end of the gun belt

Kyle