Lee Keppler VS. AB Deluxe ~ From Indy Summit *REVISED*
Moderators: Indiana Jeff, Dalexs
Lee Keppler VS. AB Deluxe ~ From Indy Summit *REVISED*
*This is not a bash comparison, merely a product to product comparison as that is what was available on the day. I realize this is a LC AB offering with Lee's Raiders. I loved both hats, but merely think between these two particular 'models' I preferred the Keppler with the Raiders bash. You'll have to excuse me sometimes in my posts as I have developed into somewhat of a Raiders snob. I'm working on it.*
I had the unique opportunity during the Queen Mary Indy Summit
in Long Beach a few weeks ago to physically check out
both the AB Deluxe Fedora Last Crusade model and Lee Keppler's newest Raiders offering. Two more beautiful hats out the to make our choice even harder.
Here's how they shaped up to me.
Keppler in front, AB in back.
Right off the bat I could see that both fedoras were made from high
quality beaver felt. The AB looked a little lighter, and wasn't as stiff
a felt as Lee's.
Both 100% pure Beaver Felt.
Keppler on left. AB on right.
The larger Raiders crown and more robust shape of Lee's hat immediately
had me leaning towards his lid as I prefer the Raiders Raven Bar
look and the darker color and Lee has hit this one right on the mark.
The AB hat with the LC crown of course had a more of a conservative 'square' look to it, perfect for LC fans.
Keppler on left. AB on right.
Lee's ribbon is spot on Raiders and have excellent color and weave. Lee had these ribbons specially
made to match his own strict color and weave requirements. Even the double bow is just right.
Keppler:
The AB had the finer, dressed up feel to the ribbon along with the softer felt. Again great for LC.
AB:
Both hats featured an elegant liner and leather sweat band.
Ab on left. Keppler on right.
In the end, both hats are splendid offerings. The AB is a
beautiful dress fedora with a very soft feel, but in the end
the $400+ S & H and a four to six month wait time has me
ultimately leaning toward the super accurate and little bit more reasonably
priced Keppler Fedora which will ultimately be offered at less than
$300 and will have a much shorter wait time if any. Plus, he'll
hand bash it to any scene you like and he's a pleasure to deal with.
In Conclusion:
My vote ultimately went to Lee for his very sturdy, accurate,
and reasonably priced offering. As with all of us, if I were rich, I'd probably
have a fedora from each for all occasions.
Great job Lee! Keep up the great work.
I had the unique opportunity during the Queen Mary Indy Summit
in Long Beach a few weeks ago to physically check out
both the AB Deluxe Fedora Last Crusade model and Lee Keppler's newest Raiders offering. Two more beautiful hats out the to make our choice even harder.
Here's how they shaped up to me.
Keppler in front, AB in back.
Right off the bat I could see that both fedoras were made from high
quality beaver felt. The AB looked a little lighter, and wasn't as stiff
a felt as Lee's.
Both 100% pure Beaver Felt.
Keppler on left. AB on right.
The larger Raiders crown and more robust shape of Lee's hat immediately
had me leaning towards his lid as I prefer the Raiders Raven Bar
look and the darker color and Lee has hit this one right on the mark.
The AB hat with the LC crown of course had a more of a conservative 'square' look to it, perfect for LC fans.
Keppler on left. AB on right.
Lee's ribbon is spot on Raiders and have excellent color and weave. Lee had these ribbons specially
made to match his own strict color and weave requirements. Even the double bow is just right.
Keppler:
The AB had the finer, dressed up feel to the ribbon along with the softer felt. Again great for LC.
AB:
Both hats featured an elegant liner and leather sweat band.
Ab on left. Keppler on right.
In the end, both hats are splendid offerings. The AB is a
beautiful dress fedora with a very soft feel, but in the end
the $400+ S & H and a four to six month wait time has me
ultimately leaning toward the super accurate and little bit more reasonably
priced Keppler Fedora which will ultimately be offered at less than
$300 and will have a much shorter wait time if any. Plus, he'll
hand bash it to any scene you like and he's a pleasure to deal with.
In Conclusion:
My vote ultimately went to Lee for his very sturdy, accurate,
and reasonably priced offering. As with all of us, if I were rich, I'd probably
have a fedora from each for all occasions.
Great job Lee! Keep up the great work.
Last edited by Wade Egan on Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- binkmeisterRick
- Stealer of Wallets
- Posts: 16926
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:22 pm
- Location: Chattering with these old bones
Thanks for posting, Wade! It's about time someone showed better pics of the hat. It'd be nice to see a side by side comparison of the hats with the same bash though, especially since the AB shown looked like a CS bash next to a Raiders. Still, I wish I had seen this hat earlier in the day when I did. Nice job, Lee! As for price, he quoted me $299, which is technically under $300. ;-)
- binkmeisterRick
- Stealer of Wallets
- Posts: 16926
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:22 pm
- Location: Chattering with these old bones
Also, the AB Deluxe uses a different beaver felt. Lee's 100% beaver shares the same Winchester felt as Steve Delk's standard AB. If you purchased a recent AB from Steve, it will match the color of Lee's. I compared mine as such. ;-)
Last edited by binkmeisterRick on Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Michaelson
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 44486
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:55 pm
- Location: Out here knowing stuff and things and wishing I were with the family at Universal Studios Orlando
Nice comparison. In this case, aren't you comparing a Raiders styled hat against a CS styled hat? There will be a marked difference, as we can see by the photos.
Agreed, bink, it would have been nice if a comparison had been made between a standard AB and Lee's new hat. Other than the styling, that would have been a 1:1 comparison on felt.
Lee always produces nice stuff.
Regards! Michaelson
Agreed, bink, it would have been nice if a comparison had been made between a standard AB and Lee's new hat. Other than the styling, that would have been a 1:1 comparison on felt.
Lee always produces nice stuff.
Regards! Michaelson
- Indiana G
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:55 pm
- Location: in the Temple of Insanity
hi wade,
just a few corrections to make note of or perhaps ask for confirmations on.........you mentioned the AB was a deluxe but it looks like one of Steve's.
also, comparing a CS hat to a ROTLA hat is not apples to apples as far as shape/creasing/bashing/and overall volume. (ie - the CS hat is suppose to look more "squarish" )
the keppler is a factory produced hat whilst the AB is a handmade custom.
other than that, that is an excellent report of your findings sir. thank you for sharing.
that keppler beaver raiders is gonna be one bad mamma jamma when the orders start falling on to people's heads. great job lee!!!!
just a few corrections to make note of or perhaps ask for confirmations on.........you mentioned the AB was a deluxe but it looks like one of Steve's.
also, comparing a CS hat to a ROTLA hat is not apples to apples as far as shape/creasing/bashing/and overall volume. (ie - the CS hat is suppose to look more "squarish" )
the keppler is a factory produced hat whilst the AB is a handmade custom.
other than that, that is an excellent report of your findings sir. thank you for sharing.
that keppler beaver raiders is gonna be one bad mamma jamma when the orders start falling on to people's heads. great job lee!!!!
Very true - it isn't really accurate to describe the Keppler as more accurate, Wade. They're modelled after different movies. In some ways, I'd actually say the AB is more accurate though, since they've got the authentic ribbon. -MMichaelson wrote:Nice comparison. In this case, aren't you comparing a Raiders styled hat against a CS styled hat? There will be a marked difference, as we can see by the photos.
Agreed, bink, it would have been nice if a comparison had been made between a standard AB and Lee's new hat. Other than the styling, that would have been a 1:1 comparison on felt.
Lee always produces nice stuff.
Regards! Michaelson
- Michaelson
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 44486
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:55 pm
- Location: Out here knowing stuff and things and wishing I were with the family at Universal Studios Orlando
ok,ok
Sometimes I forget to be as specific as possible with my posts here. I will try and observe the technicalities in the future.
Please read again for the 'revised' version of the review.
W
Please read again for the 'revised' version of the review.
W
-
- Laboratory Technician
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:41 pm
- Location: San Francisco
Both are fine looking hats. Both look authentic to the film & Indian Jones idea - and both look to be constructed by gentlemen who understand, know, and love hats. Having both might be the reasonable choice.
I ordered the AB last July and look forward to wearing it, not because of AB's association to the film, but because fedoras true to the period aren't fully understood by contemporary hat-shapers.
If you scour the films of thirties and forties - even twenties - you'll see the higher crowns and complementary ribbons. James Cagney in G-Men sports a fedora similar to the Ab and Keppler. And Bogart, of course, in the Maltese Falcon wears a good looking fedora. But many contemporary fedoras have shorter crowns and narrower brims. I suspect these more compact hats emerged during the fifties when cars were becoming streamlined, with lower tops. I have read that car tops had more to do with the disappearance of hats than JFK's skipping his.
I have no doubt I'll be more than pleased with AB. But the Keppler is sorely tempting. Heck, you can't have too many hats. (Best stored upside down at 62 degrees...)
I ordered the AB last July and look forward to wearing it, not because of AB's association to the film, but because fedoras true to the period aren't fully understood by contemporary hat-shapers.
If you scour the films of thirties and forties - even twenties - you'll see the higher crowns and complementary ribbons. James Cagney in G-Men sports a fedora similar to the Ab and Keppler. And Bogart, of course, in the Maltese Falcon wears a good looking fedora. But many contemporary fedoras have shorter crowns and narrower brims. I suspect these more compact hats emerged during the fifties when cars were becoming streamlined, with lower tops. I have read that car tops had more to do with the disappearance of hats than JFK's skipping his.
I have no doubt I'll be more than pleased with AB. But the Keppler is sorely tempting. Heck, you can't have too many hats. (Best stored upside down at 62 degrees...)
-
- Laboratory Technician
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:41 pm
- Location: San Francisco
- Michaelson
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 44486
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:55 pm
- Location: Out here knowing stuff and things and wishing I were with the family at Universal Studios Orlando
That's true.
My 1950 Plymouth touted the fact it had a high roof line, unlike OTHER cars of it's day, where a man or woman could wear the tallest hat they wanted and not worry about it touching the roof. So far it's been true. NONE of my hats come anywhere near the roof, but in other cars of the era that are owned by several of friends, my '50's lower crowned hats work MUCH better than the higher '30's style fedora crowns.
Regard! Michaelson
My 1950 Plymouth touted the fact it had a high roof line, unlike OTHER cars of it's day, where a man or woman could wear the tallest hat they wanted and not worry about it touching the roof. So far it's been true. NONE of my hats come anywhere near the roof, but in other cars of the era that are owned by several of friends, my '50's lower crowned hats work MUCH better than the higher '30's style fedora crowns.
Regard! Michaelson
- binkmeisterRick
- Stealer of Wallets
- Posts: 16926
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:22 pm
- Location: Chattering with these old bones
Back to the topic of the thread...
5, if you've seen a current AB from Steve's shop, the felt is identical. The biggest difference is that Lee's is a factory produced hat, but it's nicely done at that. Wade's pictures do this hat more justice than any passing shots I have of it.agent5 wrote:I think from the pics this is the best offering Lee has yet put out. I'd love to see one in person.
Great job, Lee.
Indy G is right, that is NOT an AB Deluxe, as far as I can see. (Liner and sweatband look nothing like anything I've ever seen in one of Marc's hats)I'd say it looks like a STANDARD Adventurebilt made by Steve, NOT an AB Deluxe which is only made by Marc. Considering the amount of confusion that exists between the two versions of AB, it's an easy enough mistake to make, but you might want to change the title of the thread and the info in it to reflect that this is a regular AB, not a Deluxe. ;-)just a few corrections to make note of or perhaps ask for confirmations on.........you mentioned the AB was a deluxe but it looks like one of Steve's.
Either way, the Keppler and the regular AB pictured here are both swell looking hats.
I’d agree with that. Lee’s 100% beaver is made out of the same felt (literally from the same felt producer) as the Penman & the Adventurebuilt. Lee’s blend hat is made out of a rabbit/beaver blend, as is the Henry.DR Ulloa wrote:Lee's blend fedora is what you can compare the Henry to. You can never compare a blended fur hat like the Henry to a pure beaver like this Keppler.
Dave
The one thing that Lee’s blend has going for it over all other hats (as far as I can tell) is that it has a color that’s closest to Raiders. I use to have online arguments with Fedora years ago about what was the correct color for Raiders. He said it was darker, I said it was lighter. At this point I don’t think that anyone would argue that the CS hat is darker than the Raiders hat.
There are so many good choices now, I almost wish that I had an Indy hat, but it’d only be “another artifact collecting dust”. Heck, I would have never gotten rid of my Optimo Indy’s if I still wanted one. Those were great.
;-)
-
- Field Surveyor
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:00 pm
Just to clarify for everyone following this thread:
The hat pictured above is an Adventurebilt made by Steve Delk and personally bashed to his Crystal Skull specs. This is NOT an Adventurebilt Deluxe as posted.
Also, the hat was delivered late October/early November of 2008. So it is a very new hat in terms of age... It's only been out of the box once before...
The hat pictured above is an Adventurebilt made by Steve Delk and personally bashed to his Crystal Skull specs. This is NOT an Adventurebilt Deluxe as posted.
Also, the hat was delivered late October/early November of 2008. So it is a very new hat in terms of age... It's only been out of the box once before...
May as well compare apples to apples here.
Here is my Raiders fedora. Once I snip off a bit from the bottom of the bow(it is showing), this one is fixin to be mailed. Please feel free to use my photos to do a side by side comparison, so we can see how the hats vary. But first, let me say great job Lee!!! And very happy you decided to go the beaver route. Our hats will outlast you and I.
Ok, here is my Raiders fedora with a 4 1/2 inch height on the front pinch.
And here she is with a 4 3/4 front height on the front pinch.
Here she is kicked back.
And here she is front the non bow side.
And here is my fav. Compare it to the one when Indy is in the tent with Marion and Sallah, and you get the shadowy side shot of Indy's hat.
Then there's the back view.
And another from a different angle.
And finally the bow.
Not my best bow, but I would wear it so.........and the little piece of ribbon showing beneath the right side bottom of the bow will be snipped off! Before I mail it out to Mr. Knapp. ;-)
Did you see in hand the original Raider's ribbon? The reason I ask, is because we were told that the AB ribbon is what HJ used way back when. The content of rayon may have changed, but the color is supposed to be the same.
On the bows, neither Beaver Brands or mine are a perfect match to the film, but, to me, mine look closer. Some of mine look better than others. But all have a flying v visible, that occurs naturally when I put the little crease in the bow. Also, the Beaver Brand pinch in the bow is TOO HIGH. Let's call a spade a spade here. This is a very anal retenive bunch here, and I am surprised one of our stitch Nazis has not already posted as such. Wait, I just did it!!! Fedora
Here is my Raiders fedora. Once I snip off a bit from the bottom of the bow(it is showing), this one is fixin to be mailed. Please feel free to use my photos to do a side by side comparison, so we can see how the hats vary. But first, let me say great job Lee!!! And very happy you decided to go the beaver route. Our hats will outlast you and I.
Ok, here is my Raiders fedora with a 4 1/2 inch height on the front pinch.
And here she is with a 4 3/4 front height on the front pinch.
Here she is kicked back.
And here she is front the non bow side.
And here is my fav. Compare it to the one when Indy is in the tent with Marion and Sallah, and you get the shadowy side shot of Indy's hat.
Then there's the back view.
And another from a different angle.
And finally the bow.
Not my best bow, but I would wear it so.........and the little piece of ribbon showing beneath the right side bottom of the bow will be snipped off! Before I mail it out to Mr. Knapp. ;-)
Lee's ribbon is spot on Raiders
Did you see in hand the original Raider's ribbon? The reason I ask, is because we were told that the AB ribbon is what HJ used way back when. The content of rayon may have changed, but the color is supposed to be the same.
On the bows, neither Beaver Brands or mine are a perfect match to the film, but, to me, mine look closer. Some of mine look better than others. But all have a flying v visible, that occurs naturally when I put the little crease in the bow. Also, the Beaver Brand pinch in the bow is TOO HIGH. Let's call a spade a spade here. This is a very anal retenive bunch here, and I am surprised one of our stitch Nazis has not already posted as such. Wait, I just did it!!! Fedora
- Bufflehead Jones
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3191
- Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:11 pm
- Location: Maryland
Re: Lee Keppler VS. AB Deluxe ~ From Indy Summit *REVISED*
Knowing that the AB uses the original Raiders ribbon, this part of the review caused me to chuckle just a bit.wadventure wrote:Lee's ribbon is spot on Raiders and have excellent color and weave. Lee had these ribbons specially
made to match his own strict color and weave requirements. Even the double bow is just right.
The AB had the finer, dressed up feel to the ribbon along with the softer felt. Again great for LC.
-
- Laboratory Technician
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:41 pm
- Location: San Francisco
AB Photos
Superb hat. The AB Deluxe I ordered will be well worth the wait.
I am in a peculiar position here. I am a vendor. But only chimed in because my hat was being compared to another, with one being a Raiders and the other a CS.Kind of reminds me of when Darthbish tried to claim that his Fed4 had a better block than the AB. I really wish people would do their homework on these things. -M
I welcome comparisons. I will put my hat along side any other. The above comparison to me was not genuine. The original one, that is.
But Lee is a friend, so I certainly never want to say anything negetive about the hats he has made for him at Beaver Brands. He was the original vendor of Indy gear. And a heck of a nice guy. And his hats are good buys. And very suitable for Indy fedoras. Plus, he has upgraded as time has passed, and has not been satisfied with the status quo. Kudos to Lee!! It gives us so many choices today, when compared to yesteryear.
But with that said, I personally still think my ABs are not only as close as you can get in blockshape, but they are top of the line hats. When the original poster said the ribbon and bow were more accurate, I spit out my mouthful of coffee! Any Indy nut can see the bow's crease is way too high. It should be more or less centered in the bow itself. But nuff of that stuff.
The color of Lee's rabbit hats, were indeed the best color out there. I fully agree! And, Rundquist my friend, you were indeed the winner of our debate years ago. I was fooled by some of the low light scenes in which the hat appeared a reddish brown. The new film proved without a doubt that the original hats were lighter in brown.The one thing that Lee’s blend has going for it over all other hats (as far as I can tell) is that it has a color that’s closest to Raiders. I use to have online arguments with Fedora years ago about what was the correct color for Raiders. He said it was darker, I said it was lighter. At this point I don’t think that anyone would argue that the CS hat is darker than the Raiders hat.
Marc and I realized this later on, and could have went with a lighter brown, but both had seen lighter brown hats, bleached out by the sun that were no longer accurate in color. We figured if we went darker, once ours bleached out, they would be close to the right color. Yeah, we figured our hats would last long enough for the bleaching to occur. I have gotten back some that I made oh, 5 years ago, that were so much lighter in color than when I sent them. So, it seems to work.
In the end, we buy the hat that appeals to each of us. And lord knows, there are a multitude out there today that are worthy Indy fedoras. Sure, I think mine are the best, but heck, I am extremely predjudiced!!!! If I see one that looks better than mine, I have no qualms about tweaking my blocks!!! But on these factory hats, that is very hard to do, as they have a limited inventory of blocks these days. Most of the vintage blocks are no longer used, and the inventories have been culled down to just make and sell, what will sell. Not much variety anymore in blockshapes. Unless you go with someone like Art, who has a huge collection of vintage blocks. And the go to guy for anyone seeking very vintage- esque fedoras, or any other dress hat for that matter.
The first thing I noticed about Lee's new hat is he got rid of the front slant that was a bit too much when the hat was viewed from the side. The slant on the front pinch. This was always a weak area on his prior hats.
I had sent out a very good block to Beaver Brands last year, for Lee, and perhaps they had him some blocks made to replicate it. I know they never sent my block back to me!!!!! A number 25 vintage block. This new hat looks like it could have come off of that same block that I sent, or a copy of it. Definetely an improvement over his older hats. If this is the case, beat that new Keppler Beaver up, and sit on it a few times, and you will be very pleased with the results. Fedora
Can't argue with that. ;-)Fedora wrote:The color of Lee's rabbit hats, were indeed the best color out there. I fully agree! And, Rundquist my friend, you were indeed the winner of our debate years ago. I was fooled by some of the low light scenes in which the hat appeared a reddish brown. The new film proved without a doubt that the original hats were lighter in brown.The one thing that Lee’s blend has going for it over all other hats (as far as I can tell) is that it has a color that’s closest to Raiders. I use to have online arguments with Fedora years ago about what was the correct color for Raiders. He said it was darker, I said it was lighter. At this point I don’t think that anyone would argue that the CS hat is darker than the Raiders hat.
Marc and I realized this later on, and could have went with a lighter brown, but both had seen lighter brown hats, bleached out by the sun that were no longer accurate in color. We figured if we went darker, once ours bleached out, they would be close to the right color. Yeah, we figured our hats would last long enough for the bleaching to occur. I have gotten back some that I made oh, 5 years ago, that were so much lighter in color than when I sent them. So, it seems to work.
Not to belabor a point, but I was just thinking. It is hard to get a good bow in a factory made hat. First of all, they are probably not Indy fans, and really don't know what the bow is supposed to look like. Or, if they do, they have to do these very fast for production reasons.
And that is one of the reasons, the guys like me, Marc, John Penman, and 3M$ sell hats, although it can be a slow process to get one. We actually TRY very hard to recreate the proper Raiders bow. Now, mine are not yet perfect, using the film stills as a reference, but they are alot closer than most factory made bows. And this is just another reason why custom made Indy hats are in demand, even with the slow production times. Here is one I just finished, and not the other one posted above. Different hat, but again my attempt at recreating the Raiders bow.
And you can see the "flying V" in this shot. Again, not perfect, but I can assure you, I spent a lot of time making this bow.
But we have to thank goodness that there are factory hats out there, that don't require the long wait. And Lee's new offering is certainly in the top 10 per cent of desirable factory hats.
I would have never posted on a thread about the new Keppler IF a bad lookding CS fedora had not been used for a comparison. I thought it was a TOD looking hat. And I just made one not long ago.
So, back to the merits of Lee's new offering! Like I said, this felt, being from my feltmaker, it will outlast both Lee and I. Neither of us are Spring chickuns' ;-) I might just have to buy me one of Lee's new hats so I can see what a factory hat looks like, using the bodies that I use.
So, I now endeth the lesson in what a proper Raiders bow should look like. Hopefully some of the new folks just learned something! Fedora
And that is one of the reasons, the guys like me, Marc, John Penman, and 3M$ sell hats, although it can be a slow process to get one. We actually TRY very hard to recreate the proper Raiders bow. Now, mine are not yet perfect, using the film stills as a reference, but they are alot closer than most factory made bows. And this is just another reason why custom made Indy hats are in demand, even with the slow production times. Here is one I just finished, and not the other one posted above. Different hat, but again my attempt at recreating the Raiders bow.
And you can see the "flying V" in this shot. Again, not perfect, but I can assure you, I spent a lot of time making this bow.
But we have to thank goodness that there are factory hats out there, that don't require the long wait. And Lee's new offering is certainly in the top 10 per cent of desirable factory hats.
I would have never posted on a thread about the new Keppler IF a bad lookding CS fedora had not been used for a comparison. I thought it was a TOD looking hat. And I just made one not long ago.
So, back to the merits of Lee's new offering! Like I said, this felt, being from my feltmaker, it will outlast both Lee and I. Neither of us are Spring chickuns' ;-) I might just have to buy me one of Lee's new hats so I can see what a factory hat looks like, using the bodies that I use.
So, I now endeth the lesson in what a proper Raiders bow should look like. Hopefully some of the new folks just learned something! Fedora
- Lee Keppler
- Vendor
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2002 5:43 pm
- Location: So. California (San Diego Area)
- Contact:
I just got back from the Big Reno Gun Show, (What a madhouse!!) and read the latest posts. The phrase "good job" means a lot to me, coming from you, Steve. I thought you had your block back. I'll see that you get it. I sent the BB factory a pic of Desi's "Screen used Fedora" bow as a model, but I'll see if I can yank their chain to improve on the details. i'll see if I can get a CS hat photographed over the weekend. Apples=Apples. By the way, what size hat do you wear? Don't be a stranger.
-
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 7011
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:21 pm
Fedora wrote:Not to belabor a point, but I was just thinking. It is hard to get a good bow in a factory made hat. First of all, they are probably not Indy fans, and really don't know what the bow is supposed to look like. Or, if they do, they have to do these very fast for production reasons.
And that is one of the reasons, the guys like me, Marc, John Penman, and 3M$ sell hats, although it can be a slow process to get one. We actually TRY very hard to recreate the proper Raiders bow. Now, mine are not yet perfect, using the film stills as a reference, but they are alot closer than most factory made bows. And this is just another reason why custom made Indy hats are in demand, even with the slow production times. Here is one I just finished, and not the other one posted above. Different hat, but again my attempt at recreating the Raiders bow.
And you can see the "flying V" in this shot. Again, not perfect, but I can assure you, I spent a lot of time making this bow.
But we have to thank goodness that there are factory hats out there, that don't require the long wait. And Lee's new offering is certainly in the top 10 per cent of desirable factory hats.
I would have never posted on a thread about the new Keppler IF a bad lookding CS fedora had not been used for a comparison. I thought it was a TOD looking hat. And I just made one not long ago.
So, back to the merits of Lee's new offering! Like I said, this felt, being from my feltmaker, it will outlast both Lee and I. Neither of us are Spring chickuns' ;-) I might just have to buy me one of Lee's new hats so I can see what a factory hat looks like, using the bodies that I use.
So, I now endeth the lesson in what a proper Raiders bow should look like. Hopefully some of the new folks just learned something! Fedora
Steve,I think you nail the flying V. Even the stitches is in the right place.
Thank you my friend. But, I still see imperfections. Really, anyone can get this close. It isn't rocket science or anything like that. Just a folded over crease. I spend alot of time on my bows, and more time than most factories are willing to put into it. Gotta keep production up!! They can't take the time needed in most cases, although I have seen a few factory bows from the UK that looked really good. One was on a Lock's hat. A perfect flying v. FedoraSteve,I think you nail the flying V. Even the stitches is in the right place
- DR Ulloa
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3257
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:28 pm
- Location: Miami, FL
- Contact:
That has to be the greatest possible compliment on John's work...like Pablo Picasso telling Romero Britto that he is better than he ever was.Fedora wrote:John Penman. I just viewed your thread on your hats, and I am really impressed. Especially with your bow work. Dude, you are better than me. My hat is off to you! Fedora
Dave
- Mitch LaRue
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3147
- Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:41 pm
- Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Yeah, I gotta agree with Doc, THAT had to be one of the nicest compliments for John to hear (...or...read)
Are we right about that, John? Are you still grinning from ear to ear after reading that?
As one of the folks who've posted some of the most recent pictures of Mr. Penman's latest batch of hats, I've got to say (again) that the bow on his hats is
JUST
PERFECT.
...And believe me when I say I'm a bit of a fussy guy about the look of the bow (Tex? You here?) ...and John's stands up to the most intense of inspections.
You can say that about the whole hat, really...
High Quality Stuff start to finish.
Mitch
(Hmmm... Whoa! I'm just now realizing how I'm aiding and abetting in getting us way, waaay of topic! Sincere apologies, Mods!)
Are we right about that, John? Are you still grinning from ear to ear after reading that?
As one of the folks who've posted some of the most recent pictures of Mr. Penman's latest batch of hats, I've got to say (again) that the bow on his hats is
JUST
PERFECT.
...And believe me when I say I'm a bit of a fussy guy about the look of the bow (Tex? You here?) ...and John's stands up to the most intense of inspections.
You can say that about the whole hat, really...
High Quality Stuff start to finish.
Mitch
(Hmmm... Whoa! I'm just now realizing how I'm aiding and abetting in getting us way, waaay of topic! Sincere apologies, Mods!)
..Mulceber wrote:Kind of reminds me of when Darthbish tried to claim that his Fed4 had a better block than the AB. I really wish people would do their homework on these things. -M
I'm sorry?.....when exactly did I say those words??..Coz I just checked my last 127 posts, and I'm preeeeeeetty "they're" not there.
By all means, quote me if I have and I shall stand corrected, but if I haven't. Don't put words into my mouth.
Cheers
- DR Ulloa
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3257
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:28 pm
- Location: Miami, FL
- Contact:
I won't quote becuase there are simply too many statements to begin quoting each one, but read through this thread that you started a couple months ago:
viewtopic.php?t=33034&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Dave
viewtopic.php?t=33034&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Dave
Guys, everybody likes what they like. Everyone has opinions. Who cares, really? Fedora made hats for Crystal Skull. If there was one man that is the father of Indygear, it is Lee Keppler (no disrespect whatsoever to Michaelson). They both offer different products for different wants and needs. They’re both good choices.
But I could argue that Graham Thompson of Optimo hats makes a hat that embodies the screen used Raiders hat better than any offering of both Fedora or Lee. His block is probably a little wider and therefore not as “accurate” as either Lee’s or Fedora’s, but his felt is more “right” for the screen used Raiders hat. But it won’t hold up as well as either of these beaver offerings. But maybe you could care less about a “Raiders” hat and want an LC.
My point is that we all have different criteria for picking a hat. I have seen both Lee’s hats & Fedora's hats. They are definitely on par with each other and are suited for whatever your particular needs are. My particular need is that I don’t “need” an Indy hat. So I’m relatively unbiased when I make these statements. Look at the pictures & talk to the vendors. Then make up your own minds. Cheers
But I could argue that Graham Thompson of Optimo hats makes a hat that embodies the screen used Raiders hat better than any offering of both Fedora or Lee. His block is probably a little wider and therefore not as “accurate” as either Lee’s or Fedora’s, but his felt is more “right” for the screen used Raiders hat. But it won’t hold up as well as either of these beaver offerings. But maybe you could care less about a “Raiders” hat and want an LC.
My point is that we all have different criteria for picking a hat. I have seen both Lee’s hats & Fedora's hats. They are definitely on par with each other and are suited for whatever your particular needs are. My particular need is that I don’t “need” an Indy hat. So I’m relatively unbiased when I make these statements. Look at the pictures & talk to the vendors. Then make up your own minds. Cheers
Oh puh-leeeese..DR Ulloa wrote:I won't quote becuase there are simply too many statements to begin quoting each one, but read through this thread that you started a couple months ago:
viewtopic.php?t=33034&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Dave
I asked a question re: people's fascination with AB's and said "I'm the first to admit that I'm new to this whole thing, but as I look lovingly at my Fed, I find it hard to believe that there could be a better hat out there."
If anything that's pride in something that I've just purchased, not a claim that it's "better blocked"
Honestly... I really wish people would do their homework on these things.
- DR Ulloa
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3257
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:28 pm
- Location: Miami, FL
- Contact:
Don't be too hard on yourself, G. You've only made two hats and they look frawsome! I'd say your block is as good as any other block out there. The back reverse taper on your last hat is testament to that.Indiana G wrote:how bout when indy g claimed his block was better than steve and marc's raiders blocks???Mulceber wrote:Kind of reminds me of when Darthbish tried to claim that his Fed4 had a better block than the AB. I really wish people would do their homework on these things. -M
(just kidding)
Runquist, I agree that both these hats are great. As far as color goes, I have always liked Lee's shade of brown more. I have his blend hat and the color is perfect Raiders. I would agree with Optimo's felt. I have never seen one in person, but even in photos you can tell that that is the closest possible Raiders felt out there. As far as construction, though, there is no way a factory hat like the Beaver Brand, will be as done up as well as the AB or the Optimo.
Dave
Last edited by DR Ulloa on Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 7011
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:21 pm
I have to jump in here for a sec. Marc's felt from ABD is by fare the best in every way.
As for optimo, he makes a fine hat but in my opinion can't come close to a raider hat ( and do I have to say CS hat) as Steve's hats. The list of things Steve and Marc get right that others only can get close is to long to list.
As for Steve's color felt. The color is a little darker than a raiders hat but will lighten up with a bit of wear.
again, I think no one comes close to Steve and his ribbon ( except for Marc) and how he puts the bow together and how it is tacked on. I have went over the raiders bow so many times and he has nailed it.
keppler looks like a fine hat but I would have to see one in person to completely comment on it. Pure beaver felt gives it a big plus but you con not compare a factory hat to a handmade one. It's just not fare to either person.
A hatter that is a Indy fan is going to get all the small details (that most will never notice) correct.
As for optimo, he makes a fine hat but in my opinion can't come close to a raider hat ( and do I have to say CS hat) as Steve's hats. The list of things Steve and Marc get right that others only can get close is to long to list.
As for Steve's color felt. The color is a little darker than a raiders hat but will lighten up with a bit of wear.
again, I think no one comes close to Steve and his ribbon ( except for Marc) and how he puts the bow together and how it is tacked on. I have went over the raiders bow so many times and he has nailed it.
keppler looks like a fine hat but I would have to see one in person to completely comment on it. Pure beaver felt gives it a big plus but you con not compare a factory hat to a handmade one. It's just not fare to either person.
A hatter that is a Indy fan is going to get all the small details (that most will never notice) correct.
- DR Ulloa
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3257
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:28 pm
- Location: Miami, FL
- Contact:
I agree whole-heartedly. I was simply commenting on how the Optimo felt looks and how, from the photos I have seen, it reacts. To me, it seems dead on Raiders. No one makes hats like Steve and no ones bows are as great as Steve's...except for Marc...and you, John.BendingOak wrote:I have to jump in here for a sec. Marc's felt from ABD is by fare the best in every way.
As for optimo, he makes a fine hat but in my opinion can't come close to a raider hat ( and do I have to say CS hat) as Steve's hats. The list of things Steve and Marc get right that others only can get close is to long to list.
As for Steve's color felt. The color is a little darker than a raiders hat but will lighten up with a bit of wear.
again, I think no one comes close to Steve and his ribbon ( except for Marc) and how he puts the bow together and how it is tacked on. I have went over the raiders bow so many times and he has nailed it.
keppler looks like a fine hat but I would have to see one in person to completely comment on it. Pure beaver felt gives it a big plus but you con not compare a factory hat to a handmade one. It's just not fare to either person.
A hatter that is a Indy fan is going to get all the small details (that most will never notice) correct.
Dave