Club Obi Wan

Let me say that right from the start, I mean no offense by asking this but I can't help but be curious.

What is the fascination with the AB over a Fed or Fed deluxe.

Is it perceived as being a better made had??...Is it more screen accurate??..or is it just that they got the job to make the hats for KotCS??

I'm the first to admit that I'm new to this whole thing, but as I look lovingly at my Fed, I find it hard to believe that there could be a better hat out there.

Let me know.

darthbish-

These hats are subjective. It depends on what you're looking for and what you mean by "better." Steve put a lot of research and painstaking nitpicking into achieving an accurate block to emulate the vintage Herbert Johnsons used in Raiders. He also uses more durable higher quality felt than what you'd find in an Akubra-plus it's beaver. With that said, maybe rabbit is what you prefer. Which is fine. If you like the Akubra and are satisfied with it than I would say stick to your guns. If you're looking for a hat that will last a VERY long time and is made of a more durable felt, the AB is a great (IMO the best) choice. Putting aside anything to do with KOTCS, Steve can make what is generally accepted as one of the most accurate Raiders hats available. BUT, if you feel like you've got the best you can get, again, stick with the Fed. Just remember, AB's are HANDMADE in the style of vintage fedoras with the highest quality. They may be worth a shot, just to see....

Cheers!

no offense by me asking but how old is the oldest AB Beaver? How does one know how long this hat will last?

Fair question HeyJude. However, I would ask this: Hold an AB side by side with a Fed. That's when the difference will show. You can only tell so much by photos. And honestly, you can't tell much that way.

i understand whatcha saying, i just wanna see a fed deluxe side by side with an AB in 35 years.. i hope for everyone elses sake that the AB is a survivor.. everyone praises it like its been made with magical powers but know one really knows for sure what the future holds for it. From what i read through in previous posts and history the AB is only a few years old..
..Im not hating on the AB but it just makes me laugh when people say that it will last forever.. please dont take this as me talking trash about AB i just speak my mind on this subject
Jude

Well, an AB is beaver....probably the most 'indestructible' of the felts offered by a hat maker.

All the Fed line is made from rabbit, though a blend of jackrabbit and domestic rabbit fur, but rabbit none the less.

If both hats are used exactly the same, and in regular wear, the beaver will out last the rabbit by years, if not decades, as it's just the nature of the fur itself. Beaver is naturally water resistant, where rabbit is not. Unless you treat the rabbit with a water resistant treatment to attempt to match the beaver, the rabbit will eventually taper something terrible, and break down.

This is true with ANY beaver/rabbit comparison, so it's not just with an AB. It will be the same if it's a comparison to a JPDesign, Peter Bros, Penman...any company that uses 100% beaver felt. You can go to museums and see beaver hats that are 200 years old that don't look half bad for their age. I have yet to see a rabbit hat in a display that old.

So, are you comparing brand names, or materials? In this case, you're talking apples and oranges.

Regards! Michaelson

I like the akubra for what it is. A good hat at a good price but it's not an AB by no means. You really need to see one in person to get how wonderful it really is.


He are a couple of pics of my first AB. It's one of his early ones. I got this one right after bink got his. Where talking a few days maybe a week after. Bink can date them I just can't remember the time frame.

I did nothing to this hat. I don't like distressing hat ( or anything for that matter). I just wore this hat. I never brush her or anything juts wear it a lot.
I live in the Oregon and we know how much rain Oregon gets. Washington is the only other state that gets more rain than we do.


I use Steve and Marc as a guide when making a hat. Why? because they make the very best hats. Period.

apples and oranges sound good !

Yeah, I'm kinda hungry too!

Regards! Michaelson

Hello COW'ers!
I post a question like this some weeks ago:
viewtopic.php?t=32379

And finally we decide to go for the Fed IV Dlx. Why? The answer it's simple... my wallet isn't that big enough for an AB! hahaha.

Of course i think the BEST hat you can get is an AB handmade of pure beaver, but they cost about $600 USD! The Fed IV Dlx which is made of the best quality rabbit felt you gonna find in the market ("Selected from a specific part of the rabbit", and as my friend Fink said... "I really don’t want to know what part that is" ) and costs no more than $200 USD - Shipping included.

So basically when i have the $600 USD plus, i dont mind waiting about a year and a half to receive it... i would DEFFINITIVELY go for an AB!

Btw, as you can see in the link above, we were discussing about de Henry AB and the Fed IV Dlx, but i came up to the conclussion that the 20% of the beaver of the Henry AB may not worth the extra $70 USD (considering the cost of the Fed IV Dlx)... Well that is just my own opinion and i'm really a newby at this 8-[

Best regards to all!

-Alfonso

darthbish

I'm kind of repeating myself from a post on a different thread, but not only does the quality of the beaver versus rabbit make me want an AB, it is also partially due to the fact that it is the "official" hat of KotCS. I may be in the minority, but that bash is my favorite. The idea of having a handmade fedora crafted by the person that did so for the movie is, for lack of a more profound word, cool. It's like getting to have your own piece of Indy movie history. I like to own things that have a story to them that makes them somewhat unique. However, I'm going to enjoy purchasing/bashing a Fed IV for a while before I invest the money and time (waiting that is) for an AB. Cheers.

basilbakerst

Well, for that matter, the PB Indy custom 100% beaver is $400, and it's made from the same Winchester felt as the AB, so there's a lot of price variations when it comes to obtaining a 100% beaver custom fedora.

Like I asked above, are we talking about product comparison, or name brand comparison?

Regards! Michaelson

Exactly... Fink and I thought about that... it's like having a David Morgan Bullwhip!... The actual makers for the IJ movies...

So, when i have the money as i said... i would deffinitively go for a handmade pure beaver AB.

-Alfonso

If we are talking the fed IV to the Henry Ab. I would say not only is the 20% beaver but the block that it's being made with, how the factory is stitching the sweats higher as to prolong the life of the hat for reblocks and the ribbon being used is worth the 70 dollars.

Mustanglovermex,

Steve's Ab is in the $400.00 range and Marc's ABD is in the $600.00 range. If I'm not mistaken.

If you wanted to buy classic Mustang you have three options (there are much more, but lets keep it simple; I'm not going to get into specific years and models and such, so lets go with the classic '65):

1. 200 cubic inch v6
2. 289 cubic inch v8
3. 289 cubic inch v8 stroked and bored out to 4x2.9 with a compression ration of 10:5 to 1, with a dual Holley carburetors and the prestige of owning a Shelby

Now, all three are great muscle cars and collector's choices, but they are all different animals. If you want the best, however, you go with the Shelby. Think of the Federation as the stock v6 and the AB as the Shelby. I hope this alliteration was not complete waste of time. Can you tell I'm a Mustang freak?

Dave

I've never owned an AB, and have owned a Fed Deluxe (do still own it), but I can say that the AB is probably higher quality. The Feds are built for toughness, and can take a beating, but mine has shown taper, and if I were too keep wearing it (it's pretty much retired, I'm replacing it soon) I'm sure it would taper more. And even though AB has only been around for so many years, Steve was practicing re-blocking both new and vintage hats for years, and started buying raw hat bodies and finishing them into hats, all the while trying to nail the perfect Raiders hat both in look and felt quality. After a long effort of nailing the correct ribbon, the highest quality of felt bodies, and perfecting (and replicating) his block, he succeeded as being a genuine hatter, even though all he really did/does is indy hats.

I must also add, he didn't merely GET the contract for Crystal Skull, he EARNED it as a direct result of making the best Raiders hat out there. And as for the high price, a good chunk of that is not only profit, but a part of supply and demand. He can only do so much. And he's a custom hatter, each hat is made to order, rather than just shipped open crowned to order off an assembly line.

Oh, and somewhere in the whole rise to best Indy-hat-maker-out-there, Marc also started making some darn nice hats

-KB

One of the things that amazes me about the AB's is how easy they are to shape or tweak; you don't need water or steam at all, just a little pressure, and the shape will hold unless or until you change your mind again. None of the rabbit hats I've owned were that "agreeable."

Jack

darthbish wrote:What is the fascination with the AB over a Fed or Fed deluxe.

It depends on what are you looking for.
If you want an Indy IV hat, the reason would be that buying the AB you'll be geting the real thing, not a copy. (besides the Akubra could be a good copy for that hat. I don't owe it, so I can't talk about it).

If you want a Raiders hat, any hat you get will be a replica, so then you have to analyse many other things, such as the money you want to spend, the use you will give to the hat, the colour you like more, and whatever.

What I mean is:
For a Raiders hat, any hat would be the best depending on what do you like, what do you want to spend, what do you want it for.
(If you can't spend more than U$S 200, Akubra may be your best option -or maybe JPD, or Capmtown-. If you could spend 400 bucks, all hats can be your best hat, and then it depends on what do you ask from a good hat.

But for a Crystal Skull, the AB is the hat. Any other could be as close to it as possible, but won't be "the thing".

Michaelson wrote:If both hats are used exactly the same, and in regular wear, the beaver will out last the rabbit by years, if not decades, as it's just the nature of the fur itself. Beaver is naturally water resistant, where rabbit is not. Unless you treat the rabbit with a water resistant treatment to attempt to match the beaver, the rabbit will eventually taper something terrible, and break down.

This is true with ANY beaver/rabbit comparison, so it's not just with an AB. It will be the same if it's a comparison to a JPDesign, Peter Bros, Penman...any company that uses 100% beaver felt. You can go to museums and see beaver hats that are 200 years old that don't look half bad for their age. I have yet to see a rabbit hat in a display that old.

Michaelson's post regarding the longevity of each type of fur felt brought a question to mind. I realize there are many variables to consider but, based on average use and average care, what is the "life expectancy" of a rabbit fur felt hat versus a beaver fur felt hat?

Zombie Jones wrote: Michaelson's post regarding the longevity of each type of fur felt brought a question to mind. I realize there are many variables to consider but, based on average use and average care, what is the "life expectancy" of a rabbit fur felt hat versus a beaver fur felt hat?

I can't guess on a rabbit felt because the oldest I've seen was from somewhere in the 1970's. As for beaver, I have seen such hats that, with a cleaning and reblock, can look almost new despite being some 70 or 80 years old.

Granted, hat making in general was better 70 years ago (for quality of product). But that's also part of what makes AB so special. Those hats are made (in a modern way) with the same issues in mind that old hats were, and modern hats seldom are. Even the Akubra Tank... um, I mean Federation. I had to reblock mine after two years of getting it wet. My AB looks like it's never been worn, even after two years of the same damp weather. Ask some of the Finger Lakes attendees. My hat is famous (for unpleasant reasons, but still...)

kind've related to this topic...
and sorry if it's been answered before, but not knowing alot about beaver fur I did a search and came across "this"..
http://www.delmonicohatter.com/Merchant ... ry_Code=IJ
Clearly it's not an AB and not even close to the accuracy of one or a FED, but seemed to start at a similar price.
However it's offically licensed.
Why didn't AB put their hands up for the licence??


How

Cost. They would have to pay Lucasfilm a pretty penny to put that name on the hat, which would've sent the price per hat up ALOT. Thats why the Dorfman Pacific hats are so low quality. In order to sell them for such a low cost while still paying lucasfilm their premium, they had to make the hats as cheap as possible.

-KB

darthbish wrote:kind've related to this topic...
and sorry if it's been answered before, but not knowing alot about beaver fur I did a search and came across "this"..
http://www.delmonicohatter.com/Merchant ... ry_Code=IJ

I too am curious about this hat. Not that it is or will be not on my list of hats to purchase (they don't have my size, for one thing), but for a pure beaver the price might be right for some.

It does not appear to be a Dorfman Hat, but instead made by something called the "Milano Hat Co." I recall reading a post by Fedora in which he discussed the diminution of hat makers, i.e. that there were so few nowadays that many differently-branded hats really came from the same manufacturer, so I am wondering about this "Milano Hat Co." and what they are all about. Can anyone enlighten?

laughograms wrote:

darthbish wrote:kind've related to this topic...
and sorry if it's been answered before, but not knowing alot about beaver fur I did a search and came across "this"..
http://www.delmonicohatter.com/Merchant ... ry_Code=IJ

I too am curious about this hat. Not that it is or will be not on my list of hats to purchase (they don't have my size, for one thing), but for a pure beaver the price might be right for some.

It does not appear to be a Dorfman Hat, but instead made by something called the "Milano Hat Co." I recall reading a post by Fedora in which he discussed the diminution of hat makers, i.e. that there were so few nowadays that many differently-branded hats really came from the same manufacturer, so I am wondering about this "Milano Hat Co." and what they are all about. Can anyone enlighten?

That is a Dorfman made by Milano, which is owned by DP. There is a thread discussing it over at The Fedora Chronicles titled "Worst Hat Vendors." Apparently, they were trying to get someone to write a review, but there were no members who had bought the hat, even at the reduced price. I would be curious to see a review myself.

Jack

eazybox wrote: That is a Dorfman made by Milano, which is owned by DP. There is a thread discussing it over at The Fedora Chronicles titled "Worst Hat Vendors."

That's a pretty great thread title. How cheesy Dorfman is.

Kentucky Blues wrote:Cost. They would have to pay Lucasfilm a pretty penny to put that name on the hat, which would've sent the price per hat up ALOT. Thats why the Dorfman Pacific hats are so low quality. In order to sell them for such a low cost while still paying lucasfilm their premium, they had to make the hats as cheap as possible.

-KB

Are you sure you're not being a tad harsh here??
I mean how bad a quality can 100% beaver felt be??
Are you talking quality in manufacture...or quality in design/shape??

I mean there's no question that the shape/bash is wrong, but the actual manufacture of the hat may be quite good.

I guess what I'm saying is that they're producing a 100% beaver felt hat, and paying the license to LFL for about the same as what a AB Deluxe is. They're just doing the wrong shape.
So I'm confused as to why AB didn't try to pick up the license and make the correct shape. As it appears that the final cost to the buyer would be comparable, and the licensed items would be a more satisfactory bash.

Get me??

It's how that hat is put together you have to consider as well not just the block shape.

Also, Steve and Marc put more work into the hat bodies than what the factory does, such as pouncing and such. And the officially licensed 100% beaver hat is a special edition hat, it's not their standard quality. The standard made by the same company is only about $100. But yes, even though their beaver hat is probably much higher quality, it's still factory made, and thus lacks in craftmanship. AB's work out to a similar price because of craftmanship and demand (they'd really need to crank them out if they were going to hold the license, backed up a year wouldn't cut it) and they'd have to add to that price to pay off Lucasfilm. Hope this better clarifies my answer

-KB

darthbish wrote: Are you sure you're not being a tad harsh here??
I mean how bad a quality can 100% beaver felt be?

I guess what I'm saying is that they're producing a 100% beaver felt hat, and paying the license to LFL for about the same as what a AB Deluxe is. They're just doing the wrong shape.
So I'm confused as to why AB didn't try to pick up the license and make the correct shape. As it appears that the final cost to the buyer would be comparable, and the licensed items would be a more satisfactory bash.

Get me??

Basically, it's not just a matter of materials. DP's, even made of the best stuff, are not put together with the knowledge and craftsmanship that an AB is. No mass produced hat is, regardless of your feelings about DP. Using pure gold to make something doesn't make it good. It just makes it expensive. You know?

Secondly, the price of an AB or AB Deluxe is higher than that official hat. The cost and trouble of production is also higher for an AB. There is variation in material quality, even from one beaver hat body to the next. What AB gives you is better and more costly to produce. The price is kept down by keeping the profit to a minimum. In order for AB to make a profit and have the Lucasfilm license, the AB's would have to be priced out of the market that the DP's are in.

Then, think about this; If you were a one or two man operation, would you want to be the officially licensed Indy hat maker? I think not. And if you decided to make a factory hat (as AB did with the Henry), would you be willing to make all of the necessary sacrifices in quality to keep the price down, and still put your name on it next to Lucasfilm? Or would you rather give the customer the quality they expect at a reasonable price, and sacrifice the Lucasfilm logo?

It may seem hard to believe that there is such a great difference between the hats you are comparing, but when you encounter an AB in person, you understand.

Kentucky Blues wrote: But yes, even though their beaver hat is probably much higher quality, it's still factory made, and thus lacks in craftmanship. AB's work out to a similar price because of craftmanship and demand (they'd really need to crank them out if they were going to hold the license, backed up a year wouldn't cut it) and they'd have to add to that price to pay off Lucasfilm. Hope this better clarifies my answer

-KB

ooookay.....just out of curiosity...
Would Akubra fit the definition of "factory made"??

Akubra's are factory made, so yes. The Federation is a factory hat and thus does not recieve the same attention to detail that a handmade hat would. That doesn't make it a bad hat, just different. Not everyone is looking for a handmade custom hat. For those who are, there are options like Adventurebilt, Adventurebilt Deluxe, Vintage Silhouettes, Jimmy Pierce Designs, Penman Hat Co. If you are not looking for a custom hat job, then a factory hat is what you want and the Akubra rolls with the best of them.

Dave

I have a Keppler and you will not be dissapointed. I love my Keppler and wear it on a fairly daily basis. It looks better with every passing day. No headaches there!

Dave

DR Ulloa wrote:Akubra's are factory made, so yes. The Federation is a factory hat and thus does not recieve the same attention to detail that a handmade hat would. That doesn't make it a bad hat, just different. Not everyone is looking for a handmade custom hat. For those who are, there are options like Adventurebilt, Adventurebilt Deluxe, Vintage Silhouettes, Jimmy Pierce Designs, Penman Hat Co. If you are not looking for a custom hat job, then a factory hat is what you want and the Akubra rolls with the best of them.

Dave

http://akubra.com.au/creation.html

I think "factory made" gives the wrong impression about Akubras

After reading the link above it seems to me that Akubra would put the same attention to detail as AB, just on a bigger scale....(it's not like they're stamped out on a ruddy great machine)

I seem to remember reading elsewhere that all of ABs 25 blocks were full...and I'm assuming that doesn't include the blocks for other styles.
Seems similar, if not smaller, than Akubra's process.
I hardly see how either process could be defined as being better or worse than the other.....(IMHO of course)

darthbish wrote:

DR Ulloa wrote:Akubra's are factory made, so yes. The Federation is a factory hat and thus does not recieve the same attention to detail that a handmade hat would. That doesn't make it a bad hat, just different. Not everyone is looking for a handmade custom hat. For those who are, there are options like Adventurebilt, Adventurebilt Deluxe, Vintage Silhouettes, Jimmy Pierce Designs, Penman Hat Co. If you are not looking for a custom hat job, then a factory hat is what you want and the Akubra rolls with the best of them.

Dave

http://akubra.com.au/creation.html

I think "factory made" gives the wrong impression about Akubras

After reading the link above it seems to me that Akubra would put the same attention to detail as AB, just on a bigger scale....(it's not like they're stamped out on a ruddy great machine)

I seem to remember reading elsewhere that all of ABs 25 blocks were full...and I'm assuming that doesn't include the blocks for other styles.
Seems similar, if not smaller, than Akubra's process.
I hardly see how either process could be defined as being better or worse than the other.....(IMHO of course)

I don't think you understand what a hand made custom hat is( AB) and a factory hat ( akubra).


akubra is a good hat but still a factory or machine made hat. They are made to cover a mass market not a personal or custom job of a handmade/crafted hat like the Adventurebilt. I like the akubra hat but it is what it is and can't compare to a handmade pure beaver hat like the AB.

This is where one really needs to have both of these hats in hand to completely understand. The AB or AB delux while looks great in photo's are much better in person. When you have one of those in your hands you will understand.

Agreed. I haven't owned an akubra, but I've owned a PB custom (another tough-as-nails rabbit fur hat) and it still isn't even in the same ballpark as an AB. Handmade with pure beaver fur is almost impossible to beat. :junior: -M

The basic process is the same for making any hat of this kind, but there are plenty of ways to do it. Akubra probably does the best in terms of factory built hats, and Hats Direct goes a step further once they have the hats in stock.

What a custom hatter does goes above and beyond the normal process. Extra pouncing, extra aging, special attention to detail in assembly, custom sizing, and special requests. Also, you won't find factory hats using the same quality of felts and sweats that most custom hatters use. Essentially, the AB guys start with a conical hat body and the other parts not yet attached, and handle business from there.

darthbish wrote:

DR Ulloa wrote:Akubra's are factory made, so yes. The Federation is a factory hat and thus does not recieve the same attention to detail that a handmade hat would. That doesn't make it a bad hat, just different. Not everyone is looking for a handmade custom hat. For those who are, there are options like Adventurebilt, Adventurebilt Deluxe, Vintage Silhouettes, Jimmy Pierce Designs, Penman Hat Co. If you are not looking for a custom hat job, then a factory hat is what you want and the Akubra rolls with the best of them.

Dave

http://akubra.com.au/creation.html

I think "factory made" gives the wrong impression about Akubras

After reading the link above it seems to me that Akubra would put the same attention to detail as AB, just on a bigger scale....(it's not like they're stamped out on a ruddy great machine)

I seem to remember reading elsewhere that all of ABs 25 blocks were full...and I'm assuming that doesn't include the blocks for other styles.
Seems similar, if not smaller, than Akubra's process.
I hardly see how either process could be defined as being better or worse than the other.....(IMHO of course)

No it doesn't. It is a factory hat. Take the AB Henry, for example. The ribbon, and I think the sweat band also, are hand stitched, but the hat is pushed out by machinery. It may have some nice touches like hand sewn ribbons, but it is still a factory hat. I never said that was better or worse than a handmade hat, especially if you are comparing two rabbit hats. I said it was different. It is no different than buying a suit off the rack or having a suit tailored to you by someone like Brioni or Zegna. It is made specifically for you with all the little nuances that make it your own.

Dave

I don't own an AB, but I own a Gray Fed and 2 Snowy Rivers and 3 of Art Fawcetts hats.
If the Ab are as nice as Arts then there is no comparison to an Akubra.
The fit, finish and quality of materials of a custom made hat is evident as soon as you hold both in your hands.

If the Ab are as nice as Arts then there is no comparison to an Akubra.

And from most reviews, the AB is on par with the works of Art. :junior: -M

^I have both and I would put them in the same league without a doubt. There are differences, of course, but are of the same quality level. I understand both source their felts from Winchester

I've been looking into Art's hats. His prices are very good for custom beaver hats. I may commision something odd from Art in the near future.

Dave

^You won't be disappointed. Consider his lightweight felt. It's fantastic.

One other thing, I also own an Akubra. And while it's a fine hat that I'm glad to have, it's simply a different beast than an AB or one from Art.

DR Ulloa wrote:I've been looking into Art's hats. His prices are very good for custom beaver hats. I may commision something odd from Art in the near future.

Dave

The best thing about Art is he'll work with you to come up with something unique.
Art likes variety and a challenge.

That is what I was thinking. I've seen Art's work and all his hats are definately unique. I like that...a lot.

Dave

So I guess to sum it all up, the real question should be "Why NOT an AB?" :junior: -M

That is a question much more easily answered.

Dave

DR Ulloa wrote:That is a question much more easily answered.

Dave

How??..by saying.."coz a Fed is better?"

If that is what you want. Don't be swayed to purchase one hat over another just becuase someone tells you to. If what you want is an inexpensive rabbit fur hat that can take a beating, then the Federation is your best choice. The Federation is a fine hat that many swear by. Start with that, if this is your first hat, and then maybe later, if you are interested, take a look at a custom beaver hat.

Dave

darthbish wrote:

DR Ulloa wrote:That is a question much more easily answered.

Dave

How??..by saying.."coz a Fed is better?"

No...because the list of things to complain about on an AB is far, far shorter than the list of things that are praiseworthy.

Honestly, I don't know why you insist on doubting us when we tell you that an AB is superior. If you had ever owned one and had complaints to make that would be one thing, but you haven't. To my knowledge, you've only owned one hat, and yet you argue with us at every turn when we say it isn't the best out there (though it is still a very good one). Do you have any clue how presumptive that sounds? :junior: -M

Let the man do what he wants, Mulceber. If he wants to go his life without ever purchasing an AB and never knowing what a custom handmade beaver hat is like, then let him. His loss. darthbish, you have obviously decided that the Federation is the greatest hat on the market and that is great, but you simply cannot compare the craftsman of a handmade beaver hat custom made to your specs to a factory hat that is made for the masses, not you specifically. And, you cannot possibly swear by a hat just because it is the only one you own. I have one whip and I think it is great, a Caicedo, but I don't presume as much to say that it is the only whip out there just because it is the one I went with initially. I know that a Strain or Jakka would blow my mind. But as far as whips go, I'm not looking for something in that pricerange because I am no master of whipcraft. As it has been said before, if you are not in the market for a custom beaver hat, great, but don't presume that a factory rabbit hat will ever compare to it.

Dave