This is neither meant to be an authoritative nor an in depht look at the Delongis style of which I am a proponent and user. Just something to keep in mind when you're thowing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BRQwFwl1HQ
Keeping Your Whip UP-New Clip By Me
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hollywood1340
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Interesting, and I also enjoyed the music. 
)
I can understand the "keeping the whip up" idea, and it sounds good in theory. But I don't crack my whips like that, and I don't recommend it, and here's why:
1. Stopping your arm sharply like that, straight out, actually creates MORE stress on the handle-to-thong transition of the whip. The whip follows through after the crack, and if your arm doesn't follow with it, you get that little jerking "bounce" we can see in your video, which is the whip absorbing more of the aftershock of the crack than it needs to. The whip still needs to crack above the ground (cracking INTO the ground is bad!). But when the whip is cracked correctly, with the crack actually happening pointed at about chest level, all of the power of the whip is gone when you see us follow through as you call it "into the ground." In your video you do still drag your whip on the ground to reset for the next crack, which is exactly what a proper follow-through should do.
2. The other and even bigger problem with stopping with your arm straight out like that comes when the beginning whipcracker wants to start combining cracks. If they have not learned how to control where the whip cracks in a full swing with the follow-through, they are going to have issues with learning combinations even as simple as the slow figure eight (which is the forward cattleman's crack immediately followed by the backwards cattleman's crack with a very necessary follow-through connecting the two). A good whipcracker needs to be able to point his crack in any direction he wants and follow through immediately afterward to reset for another crack (like for fast targeting) or flow into the next crack in a routine.
Chris Camp (professional performer "The Whip Guy") is out here visiting Paul Nolan and me, and Bernardo del Carpio is still here too. We all watched your video and agree that the follow through is an important part of learning skilled whipcracking.
I'm not trying to bust your chops Hollywood, but those are my top two reasons for not "keeping my whip up" and not teaching anyone that way either. In my opinion, if you start out learning that way, you're a step behind when it comes to learning anything more advanced.
Lauren Wickline
www.midwestwhips.com
)I can understand the "keeping the whip up" idea, and it sounds good in theory. But I don't crack my whips like that, and I don't recommend it, and here's why:
1. Stopping your arm sharply like that, straight out, actually creates MORE stress on the handle-to-thong transition of the whip. The whip follows through after the crack, and if your arm doesn't follow with it, you get that little jerking "bounce" we can see in your video, which is the whip absorbing more of the aftershock of the crack than it needs to. The whip still needs to crack above the ground (cracking INTO the ground is bad!). But when the whip is cracked correctly, with the crack actually happening pointed at about chest level, all of the power of the whip is gone when you see us follow through as you call it "into the ground." In your video you do still drag your whip on the ground to reset for the next crack, which is exactly what a proper follow-through should do.
2. The other and even bigger problem with stopping with your arm straight out like that comes when the beginning whipcracker wants to start combining cracks. If they have not learned how to control where the whip cracks in a full swing with the follow-through, they are going to have issues with learning combinations even as simple as the slow figure eight (which is the forward cattleman's crack immediately followed by the backwards cattleman's crack with a very necessary follow-through connecting the two). A good whipcracker needs to be able to point his crack in any direction he wants and follow through immediately afterward to reset for another crack (like for fast targeting) or flow into the next crack in a routine.
Chris Camp (professional performer "The Whip Guy") is out here visiting Paul Nolan and me, and Bernardo del Carpio is still here too. We all watched your video and agree that the follow through is an important part of learning skilled whipcracking.
I'm not trying to bust your chops Hollywood, but those are my top two reasons for not "keeping my whip up" and not teaching anyone that way either. In my opinion, if you start out learning that way, you're a step behind when it comes to learning anything more advanced.
Lauren Wickline
www.midwestwhips.com
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BullWhipBorton
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As we know, there are many ways to crack a whip and some are more right then others at times and some work better with certain types of whips.
The way Hollywood is working the bullwhip in this case is an excellent way to do very precise target work that gives you a much more controlled throw and a focused cut, rather then a larger broad cutting stroke that is more commonly used. Your right in that letting the whip die out in front of you can make it difficult to start putting together more complex cracks as your learning, but it’s also just as easy to let the whip follow through after the whip expens its energy out in front of you.
A crack like this really doesn’t put any more or less stress on the handle thong transition of a well made whip, because the whip is rolling out straight, the action is happening out away from that area of the whip. When done right you don’t get any jerking motion. So it's important when you do a throw like this, that you don't suddenly stop and then drop your wrist down. The motion you want is much like throwing a dart nice and easy, and when you do that you get a very smooth fluidic roll out, the crack and then the whip “dies” gently unless you decide impart more energy into it and realign it for your next figure.
There is a lot you can do with the style though and you can put together some fun combinations that look very good, like i do in the first part of this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrmZBFKGvEg
Dan
The way Hollywood is working the bullwhip in this case is an excellent way to do very precise target work that gives you a much more controlled throw and a focused cut, rather then a larger broad cutting stroke that is more commonly used. Your right in that letting the whip die out in front of you can make it difficult to start putting together more complex cracks as your learning, but it’s also just as easy to let the whip follow through after the whip expens its energy out in front of you.
A crack like this really doesn’t put any more or less stress on the handle thong transition of a well made whip, because the whip is rolling out straight, the action is happening out away from that area of the whip. When done right you don’t get any jerking motion. So it's important when you do a throw like this, that you don't suddenly stop and then drop your wrist down. The motion you want is much like throwing a dart nice and easy, and when you do that you get a very smooth fluidic roll out, the crack and then the whip “dies” gently unless you decide impart more energy into it and realign it for your next figure.
There is a lot you can do with the style though and you can put together some fun combinations that look very good, like i do in the first part of this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrmZBFKGvEg
Dan
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hollywood1340
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Thank you all for your comments! I enjoy good discussion.
This is the style I teach, and my students have had no problems in moving from the cattleman's to any of the other cracks, to combining cracks. In my opinion, the follow though is in fact not an important part of learning the process of cracking the whip, but a matter of personal opinion, or how one was taught themselves. The important part is the teaching process.
I don't mean to trot out or speak for Anthony, but from what I can see in the materials I have, there is no follow through as taught by many fine whip performers and teachers. Look at his record of work with notable and regular folks and I think you'll see the result's are quite good. It's not the style, but how it is taught. Because in the same breath I can speak of Gery Deer, or Alex Green with the same amazing results. ALL are fine teachers of the craft as far as I'm concerned and one is honored to learn from any of them.
So far from the makers I've talked to, there MAY be damage from the rolling style of cracking. I've heard accusations and rumors but nothing that makes me think I'm doing something wrong. My primary sources are outside the cracking political circles and they hold weight with me because of it.
I do look forward to working with other teachers however and learning the different how and the whys of cracking a whip. But not if I'm doing something wrong in their minds. And that is not "Wrong" as in "Here's how I do it" , that's "Wrong" as in "You're doing it wrong".
This may be poor form, but throughout my learning, I've found the first sign of a poor teacher is one rigid to a thought or idea. After years of teaching the martial arts in a professional environment, I've decided there is no place for that as an instructor. All I can do is give direction as I see fit, but to not stifle or call wrong something done differently. I find in the whip world there are to many who claim to have the truth. I know I don't have it, nor will I ever. There are many claims and little proof. I do know that tonight I had an amazing experience putting on a whip show for attendee's of an Indy IV midnight showing. I was put in a position of trusting the knowledge I have to get me through. And it did, in spectacular fashion. I can't deny the results and wouldn't change a thing. I watch my students grow and learn and I can't deny that either. This tells me I'm doing something right. And it's a fine feeling.
This is the style I teach, and my students have had no problems in moving from the cattleman's to any of the other cracks, to combining cracks. In my opinion, the follow though is in fact not an important part of learning the process of cracking the whip, but a matter of personal opinion, or how one was taught themselves. The important part is the teaching process.
I don't mean to trot out or speak for Anthony, but from what I can see in the materials I have, there is no follow through as taught by many fine whip performers and teachers. Look at his record of work with notable and regular folks and I think you'll see the result's are quite good. It's not the style, but how it is taught. Because in the same breath I can speak of Gery Deer, or Alex Green with the same amazing results. ALL are fine teachers of the craft as far as I'm concerned and one is honored to learn from any of them.
So far from the makers I've talked to, there MAY be damage from the rolling style of cracking. I've heard accusations and rumors but nothing that makes me think I'm doing something wrong. My primary sources are outside the cracking political circles and they hold weight with me because of it.
I do look forward to working with other teachers however and learning the different how and the whys of cracking a whip. But not if I'm doing something wrong in their minds. And that is not "Wrong" as in "Here's how I do it" , that's "Wrong" as in "You're doing it wrong".
This may be poor form, but throughout my learning, I've found the first sign of a poor teacher is one rigid to a thought or idea. After years of teaching the martial arts in a professional environment, I've decided there is no place for that as an instructor. All I can do is give direction as I see fit, but to not stifle or call wrong something done differently. I find in the whip world there are to many who claim to have the truth. I know I don't have it, nor will I ever. There are many claims and little proof. I do know that tonight I had an amazing experience putting on a whip show for attendee's of an Indy IV midnight showing. I was put in a position of trusting the knowledge I have to get me through. And it did, in spectacular fashion. I can't deny the results and wouldn't change a thing. I watch my students grow and learn and I can't deny that either. This tells me I'm doing something right. And it's a fine feeling.
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kooniu
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I,m not prof and possible not good whipcracker, but I use sometimes this metod .When? if I have long whip, if I need precision target (for example into hole) if I teach flick - some learn faster if they halt whip in front.
If I use short whip (like on movie) I don't use this metod - Speed is advantage of short whip and repeating of impact
kooniu
If I use short whip (like on movie) I don't use this metod - Speed is advantage of short whip and repeating of impact
kooniu
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LemonLauren
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I won't argue that there's not a place for cracking without the full-arm follow through, because there definitely is. Although some smoothness and a feeling for working with the whip instead of forcing a full stop is necessary to keep the whip from jerking after that type of crack. But anyways, I just wanted to voice my two cents about why I don't find it useful to crack that way regularly under normal circumstances, and why I tend to not teach that way when I'm trying to help someone else crack.
In your video, you say that seeing someone "follow through with their arm" is something that "drives you absolutely nuts," and that it "speaks of poor energy transference." Sure, yanking the whip into the ground afterwards or cracking the whip directly at the ground is generally poor form. But I see nothing wrong with a correct full-arm follow through after the whip has cracked, particularly because it's absolutely necessary to learn it anyways in order to begin combining cracks. For this reason along with many others I think that learning a correct full-arm follow through is a good thing.
From your comments about it "driving you absolutely nuts," it sounds a lot like you're saying that the way many professionals and many of us here on COW crack with the full arm follow through is bad. Is that what you're trying to say? I know I'm not the only person who came away from watching your video with that impression, so please correct me if you meant your message to be something else.
Lauren Wickline
www.midwestwhips.com
In your video, you say that seeing someone "follow through with their arm" is something that "drives you absolutely nuts," and that it "speaks of poor energy transference." Sure, yanking the whip into the ground afterwards or cracking the whip directly at the ground is generally poor form. But I see nothing wrong with a correct full-arm follow through after the whip has cracked, particularly because it's absolutely necessary to learn it anyways in order to begin combining cracks. For this reason along with many others I think that learning a correct full-arm follow through is a good thing.
From your comments about it "driving you absolutely nuts," it sounds a lot like you're saying that the way many professionals and many of us here on COW crack with the full arm follow through is bad. Is that what you're trying to say? I know I'm not the only person who came away from watching your video with that impression, so please correct me if you meant your message to be something else.
Lauren Wickline
www.midwestwhips.com
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Boggstandard
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Hollywood 1340,
It seems to me that your technique is more focused on the crack, as opposed to precision and accuracy.
From my point of view, the follow through is essential to putting the tip of the whip exactly where you want it to go. If all you want to do is make a noise, then you certainly can do that very effectively. But many whip crackers choose to combine cracks and do targeting, which I believe requires the more natural and controlled follow through.
And, this is not meant as a criticism, as I watch your video I see what seems to me as an unnatural and unbalanced approach. You seem to be fighting the whip rather than flowing with it.
It seems to me that your technique is more focused on the crack, as opposed to precision and accuracy.
From my point of view, the follow through is essential to putting the tip of the whip exactly where you want it to go. If all you want to do is make a noise, then you certainly can do that very effectively. But many whip crackers choose to combine cracks and do targeting, which I believe requires the more natural and controlled follow through.
And, this is not meant as a criticism, as I watch your video I see what seems to me as an unnatural and unbalanced approach. You seem to be fighting the whip rather than flowing with it.
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hollywood1340
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Lauren,
No, it's not "Bad". And I'm not attacking the teachers, instructors, or COW members when I talk about how I use the whip and how I teach it. As mentioned in my post above, I've yet seen the truth of whip cracking. Nor do I think I will ever find it. Any thing inferred beyond my opinion as stated is just that. Inferred. I really have no intention of turning this into an Us v them because it's not. What I'm doing is showing something different. Is what I'm doing "Bad"?
No, it's not "Bad". And I'm not attacking the teachers, instructors, or COW members when I talk about how I use the whip and how I teach it. As mentioned in my post above, I've yet seen the truth of whip cracking. Nor do I think I will ever find it. Any thing inferred beyond my opinion as stated is just that. Inferred. I really have no intention of turning this into an Us v them because it's not. What I'm doing is showing something different. Is what I'm doing "Bad"?
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LemonLauren
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Haha, no... I don't think the Delongis style is bad - I think he has a lot of good ideas in it that can be incorporated into a full understanding of whipcracking. I'm just having some trouble following your reasoning behind halting your arm in mid-air instead of letting gravity naturally pull your arm and your whip down afterwards smoothly into the next crack. And that's why I don't understand why you would say that the full arm follow through "drives you absolutely crazy." I just don't really follow you there.
Lauren Wickline
www.midwestwhips.com
Lauren Wickline
www.midwestwhips.com
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midwestwhips
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Hi Hollywood,
First off, I really love the music, where did you get it?
Regarding the discussion, I'm with Lauren, I don't really follow you either. I would love to hear a more in depth explanation.
Regards,
Paul Nolan
www.midwestwhips.com
First off, I really love the music, where did you get it?
Regarding the discussion, I'm with Lauren, I don't really follow you either. I would love to hear a more in depth explanation.
Regards,
Paul Nolan
www.midwestwhips.com
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hollywood1340
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I guess it's the intent of the follow through. Maybe that's not it, but close. The follow though is used for set up and alignment, we all know that. Keeping the whip in the air is used as more of a thought process, or point of reference when cracking. It's a constant, the point and projection of the whip in a forward direction. I guess I failed to make that clear. The video is not meant as the crack in total, but as one component that will help to make cracking easier. Once it's ingrained in your technique, through repetiton, it's no longer neccesary to "stop" the whip as you crack, and the follow through will in fact follow.
Follow through, as I point out in the video IMO should not be a function of the arm. You can get a much bigger crack by dropping the arm with force, and I think some may interpret that as "doing better". Yes and no. You shouldn't have to force the arm at all. The whip should do the cracking. All the follow through is doing is setting you up for your next crack. The fact I can crack without the follow through tells me the two are not related.
Hope this helps. Looking at it, I may repost the video with this discussion in mind.
Paul,
Look up Richard Cheese on MySpace Music
Follow through, as I point out in the video IMO should not be a function of the arm. You can get a much bigger crack by dropping the arm with force, and I think some may interpret that as "doing better". Yes and no. You shouldn't have to force the arm at all. The whip should do the cracking. All the follow through is doing is setting you up for your next crack. The fact I can crack without the follow through tells me the two are not related.
Hope this helps. Looking at it, I may repost the video with this discussion in mind.
Paul,
Look up Richard Cheese on MySpace Music
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hollywood1340
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midwestwhips
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Hollywood,
First off, thanks for pointing me to where you got the music, I love it!!!
Also, thanks for your reply - it made your intent much clearer for me, and hopefully everybody else here on COW who watched this video. I'm glad we can agree that the full-arm follow through is an integral part of skilled performing and teaching whipcracking. It's really great that you're out there putting whips into people's hands and spreading the art of whipcracking! It's amazing how many people never considered the possibility of being able to crack a whip, but who jump at the chance to try it and keep learning when they're given the opportunity.
As you suggested at the end of your video, I made up a quick Youtube video response today. For COW members it will mostly be just for fun at this point now that everyone knows you didn't mean to imply that the full-arm follow through was bad, but for the Youtube community who doesn't have the opportunity to read COW it will hopefully be a way to clear up some of the miscommunication, or at least provoke some more thought on the matter. Hope you enjoy it, and I hope everyone else does too!
Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVrVZ1gUHSc
First off, thanks for pointing me to where you got the music, I love it!!!
Also, thanks for your reply - it made your intent much clearer for me, and hopefully everybody else here on COW who watched this video. I'm glad we can agree that the full-arm follow through is an integral part of skilled performing and teaching whipcracking. It's really great that you're out there putting whips into people's hands and spreading the art of whipcracking! It's amazing how many people never considered the possibility of being able to crack a whip, but who jump at the chance to try it and keep learning when they're given the opportunity.
As you suggested at the end of your video, I made up a quick Youtube video response today. For COW members it will mostly be just for fun at this point now that everyone knows you didn't mean to imply that the full-arm follow through was bad, but for the Youtube community who doesn't have the opportunity to read COW it will hopefully be a way to clear up some of the miscommunication, or at least provoke some more thought on the matter. Hope you enjoy it, and I hope everyone else does too!
Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVrVZ1gUHSc
I guess it's the intent of the follow through. Maybe that's not it, but close. The follow though is used for set up and alignment, we all know that. Keeping the whip in the air is used as more of a thought process, or point of reference when cracking. It's a constant, the point and projection of the whip in a forward direction. I guess I failed to make that clear. The video is not meant as the crack in total, but as one component that will help to make cracking easier. Once it's ingrained in your technique, through repetiton, it's no longer neccesary to "stop" the whip as you crack, and the follow through will in fact follow.
Follow through, as I point out in the video IMO should not be a function of the arm. You can get a much bigger crack by dropping the arm with force, and I think some may interpret that as "doing better". Yes and no. You shouldn't have to force the arm at all. The whip should do the cracking. All the follow through is doing is setting you up for your next crack. The fact I can crack without the follow through tells me the two are not related.
Hope this helps. Looking at it, I may repost the video with this discussion in mind.
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hollywood1340
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hollywood1340
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