Noel Howards' Darker Buttons Shirt

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:51 pm

Does anyone know if the dark buttons shirt (ToD/LC) shirt that Noel Howard currently offers has the correct epaulette placement as the screen-used shirts? I've come across several photos of the older MBA shirts, and they all appear to have the Raider's epaulettes (extending OVER the pleats instead of ending in the middle of them).

Some photos of the LC shirt and the Indy IV shirt (with the same epaulette placement) for reference).

Btw, NH mentioned that one of the shirts is a slimmer fit, but does anyone know which one it is? (darker buttons or pale buttons?)

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:41 pm

Anybody?

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:55 am

i was gunning for a tod/lc nh shirt but there were none in my size. sorry but i can't help.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:53 am

Indiana G wrote:i was gunning for a tod/lc nh shirt but there were none in my size. sorry but i can't help.

Ditto, G. I think I'm on NH's waiting list for those as well, since he apparently hasn't had any of them in medium on stock for the last couple of months...

Tired of waiting, I decided to just go ahead and get a Raiders instead, since he has those on hand.

I'm still wondering if it will be worth it to get a ToD/LC NH shirt now that I'm getting a Raiders. But what I'm really interested in is if the epaulette placement in relation to the pleats are accurate? Because if it's just going to be identical to the Raider's, I might as well just switch the buttons once mine arrives.

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:20 am

Do you know what the differences are between the old MBA shirts and the NH ones? I have both a Raiders and TOD version of the MBA.

MisterJones · Post by **MisterJones** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:29 pm

Castor Dioscuri wrote:Btw, NH mentioned that one of the shirts is a slimmer fit, but does anyone know which one it is? (darker buttons or pale buttons?)

Hi there,
this is my first post after reading COW for quite a time ... and being a fan for a long time

Since I have just received a NH LC Shirt ... I recently asked Noel about the difference, because I noticed that the LC shirt appeared to be broader than my Raiders shirt.
He agreed: "Yes, the feature of the raiders version is a slightly narrower
body, six button front (different placement) and different epaulet shape."

Hope it helps!

Cheers ...

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:47 pm

MisterJones wrote:
Castor Dioscuri wrote:Btw, NH mentioned that one of the shirts is a slimmer fit, but does anyone know which one it is? (darker buttons or pale buttons?)
Hi there,
this is my first post after reading COW for quite a time ... and being a fan for a long time

Since I have just received a NH LC Shirt ... I recently asked Noel about the difference, because I noticed that the LC shirt appeared to be broader than my Raiders shirt.
He agreed: "Yes, the feature of the raiders version is a slightly narrower
body, six button front (different placement) and different epaulet shape."

Hope it helps!

Cheers ...

Welcome aboard, misterjones! Thanks for the response, although I do have a question for you

Are the buttons on your epaulettes (and therefore, do your epaulattes end) on the middle of the pleats? Or do they extend OVER the pleats? I know this question is weirdly worded, so let me try to rephrase...

Taking into consideration the length of the epaulettes in relation to the pleats, are the epaulettes the same length as the epaulettes in this picture:

or are they more like the ones in the picture below (from Raiders)?:

And I have to ask... "Have you seen my wife, Mister Jones? Do you know what it's like on the outside..."

MisterJones · Post by **MisterJones** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:55 pm

Castor Dioscuri wrote:Are the buttons on your epaulettes (and therefore, do your epaulattes end) on the middle of the pleats? Or do they extend OVER the pleats?

The epaulettes of my Raiders shirt extend the pleats only slightly (0,5-1cm), whereas at my LC shirt, they extend over 2-3 cm. Once I am back home on Monday, I will check and post a picture of both.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:37 pm

that sounds like the buttons are on the wrong shirts........no?

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:56 pm

where do wested eppaulettes lie...raiders or lc? i know i can search for it but my vp 5000 searchomatic is on the fritz......

...i'm thinking raiders.....

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:01 pm

Indiana G wrote:that sounds like the buttons are on the wrong shirts........no?

That's what I'm thinking... But in any event, shouldn't the epaulettes NOT extend OVER the pleats? Sounds like the N.H. Raiders' shirts may be the be-all-end-all as far as Indy shirt replicas go, but the Crusade shirts still need some work

Either that, or N.H. may have been going for the ToD look when designing the epaulettes for his dark button shirts...

And the Wested shirt certainly looks Raiders to me:

I really wonder if a S.A. Crusade shirt will ever be available by one of the original vendors? I doubt that'll be the case, unless the Indy IV shirt maker ever offers replicas... Hmm, I wonder

Come to think of it, there AREN'T any vendors out there yet who have taken up the challenge to try to replicate the LC shirt! Vendors, are you listening?

I mean, even if the shirt-makers for Indy IV will offer repros in the future, that still means it will be a very loose fit, and not really LC accurate (since LC's shirt was certainly more fitting if the Indy IV publicity stills are anything to go by)...

MisterJones · Post by **MisterJones** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:26 pm

MisterJones wrote:
Castor Dioscuri wrote:Are the buttons on your epaulettes (and therefore, do your epaulattes end) on the middle of the pleats? Or do they extend OVER the pleats?
The epaulettes of my Raiders shirt extend the pleats only slightly (0,5-1cm), whereas at my LC shirt, they extend over 2-3 cm. Once I am back home on Monday, I will check and post a picture of both.

Here we go with some delay:

Both shirts: LC and Raiders. The Raiders shirt has been washed several times.

Both epaulettes compared to each other:

The pleats, which appear to be broader in the Raiders shirt:

The pockets, which are slightly larger in the LC shirt (right one)

Both shoulders:

I hope this help comparing both shirts of NH. Both epaulettes extend over the pleats. Indeed the epaulettes of the Raiders version are more LC-like.

Best regards

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:02 pm

Are you telling me that there's a difference between the Raiders shirt and the Temple of Doom/Last Crusade one because I really had no idea until now.

I knew about the buttons, but not the cut.

Looks like I'm gonna have to spend another £65 now.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:06 pm

i guess i'll join you canyon

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:08 pm

Thanks MisterJones, that really does sum it all up, and then some!

From the looks of it though, and just to reiterate, it seems like the only N.H. shirts being offered are Raiders and Temple. I would think that calling the darker button shirt a Crusade shirt would be a fallacy, since to be honest, the only reason you could call it a Crusade shirt would be the darker buttons. Otherwise, it is no more Crusade than the Raiders shirt.

MARQ · Post by **MARQ** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:01 am

I just happend to look at the collars; do they all have such high collarstands...these current shirts I mean, how tall is that anyway! Is the stand that high in Wested-version too?

MisterJones · Post by **MisterJones** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:26 pm

As requested. I wanted to add the pocket measurements of the different NH Shirts.
Regards

indygr · Post by **indygr** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:19 pm

Hi MisterJones,

I ll try to answer both of your questions. The epaulettes and the size issues. My explanation is always according to my opinion. :!:

First about the size issues about the pockets and everything...The NH shirts were made by hand by Noel himself and I am pretty sure that after all this time that he was making shirts, he was not using a ruler anymore in order to calculate all the details. This would have been really time consuming therefore he might have calculated the detais by eye.
Moreover, consider that he might have received recommendations by some fans about some details and he might as well have his own improvements implemented on the shirt details. For example, your NH Raiders shirt has the epaulettes points squared off, my MBA Raiders shirt instead are pointed.

About the epaulettes...I am not a tailor but if you ll notice carefully this shirt was made for a movie and most importantly for easy arms movement.
First, the side stitching of the shirt is not lined with the shirt edges, you might notice that it's not easy to fold this shirt for storage.
The geniousness however of this shirt's cut is that the sleeves are stitched IN FRONT and not on the SIDES of the shirt as the Wested and the KOTCS shirt. If you try therefore to give a punch the shirt won't give you any problems. If you try instead to expand your arms backwards you might tear off a chest button.

Moreover, in case that you are running or you are fighting with the chest open, as indy does, this cut maintains the epaulettes fairly high giving you always a great look. Instead the epaulettes on the KOTCS shirt were very down on the shoulders, something that it's not so stylish.
Therefore, this combined with the big collar accounts to the length of the epaulettes.

I hope that I didn't make you sleep with my explanation...

Indygr

MisterJones · Post by **MisterJones** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:22 pm

indygr wrote:Hi MisterJones,
I hope that I didn't make you sleep with my explanation...
Indygr

Definitely not

I was not aware that Noel did the shirts all by himself. Indeed, the differences are small. The thought of having an adventure shirt allowing easy movement is interesting. This is exactly my feeling when wearing the shirt. The only thing Noel stated, was that the cut of the LC shirt was wider, he wrote nothing about different pockets.

Regards,
MisterJones.

ij1936 · Post by **ij1936** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:26 pm

I had originally bought one each of Noel's shirts. I did not like the way the Raiders shirt fits. It was too snug in the armpit. I wound up selling it here and buying another TOD/LC shirt and changing the buttons.

Noel Howards' Darker Buttons Shirt

Noel Howards' Darker Buttons Shirt

Comparison of NH shirts

Re: Comparison of NH shirts - Pocket Measurements