Gun Experts Help???

IndyTaz · Post by **IndyTaz** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:42 am

G'day folks,

I was recently at a friend's house... he is interested in German WWII militaria ect ect Anyway, I was relating my poor sob story of how customs destroyed my Artsee1 S&W and recently a $500 USD pulse rifle.

He paused and said "wait here'"....he then brought back a cool replica of some type of Walther handgun. It's not the one on the Main site. It looks sorta like a small Colt 1911. I think it is some type of PP or PPK. It's a replica but it's made from metal (I think something with a high zinc content LOL) The grip is a brown plastic I think it's some sort of bakealite. (That how u spell that?)
It has the eagle and the nazi swastica underneath the er... the talons within the wreath. At the top of the grip.

The mag looks like a real one. Mmm...it looks like Hitler's presentation pistol without all the decoration. It was made in Japan and my friend said it was purchased in the early 70's. On the slide it says":

"German Polizei u. Dienst Automatisch Pistole Kal. 635-BL Mod. PDP."

It does strip and the safety which is at ninety degrees functions. My camera batteries are dead so when I get some I will take pics. It has fake brass rounds in the mag. The trigger is pulled and the slide moves and ejects a shell supposedly. I have to move the slide manually as the trigger isn't working.

ANYWAY.....what I need help with is can

1. I re-blue it as it's really worn.
2. who made it
3. the trigger mechanism doesn't work so if anyone can help me rebuild it????
4. would this weapon would be ok for an SS officer uniform?????

Regards
Christian

PS He has given it to me...finally some luck LOL

Here's one exactly the same although the markings on my slide have not been erased in an attempt to fool people;)

IndyTaz · Post by **IndyTaz** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:40 am

Well I think I found that this was made by MGC...

That's what I know so far LOL

Regards
TAZ

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:01 am

Taz, as to a reblue job, I'd take it to a gunsmith, if there's one near you, and ask his opinion, especially if you're not sure of the metal makeup of the replica. Personally, I think the wear looks like it's seen a lot of action. I'd keep it as is, but that's just me.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:02 am

I would look to your local gun dealer and I'm sure they could help you with all on your list.

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:03 am

Looks like a replica Walther PPK (Polizei Pistole Kriminal...my German could be off a bit, though), 7.65mm semi-automatic. German weapon, produced during the 1930's, based on the Walther PP design but made a bit smaller, specifically for use by undercover or Kriminal police (though not exclusively). Saw use throughout WWII in the hands of various members of the SS-SD, Gestapo, Waffen SS, etc. I believe this may have also been the pistol found at Hitler's side after his suicide. Also the preferred weapon of James Bond for many years (though I doubt his had the swastika). This type of weapon made a brief appearance in the Indy trilogy, as it was used by Donovan to shoot Henry Sr. in the grail temple.

It's a good weapon, well made, fairly small & slim making it easy to conceal. Many are seen nowadays with a grip-extender fixed to the base of the magazine.

According to the MI6 armorer in "Dr. No", it has a delivery "like a brick through a plate glass window".

Hope this helps

-GCR

IndyTaz · Post by **IndyTaz** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:09 am

wow!!!!!!!! Cool info mate...yes it helps:) I am a bit lost when it comes to pistols/rifles....LOL

I was a little dubious about taking this to a dealer for fear of having it taken.

I did find a site/forum called model gun forum ect. They should be able to help with the rebuild:)

Thanks a million....any more folk care to add?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:19 am

Taz, if you're concerned with having it taken by visiting a gunsmith, then it may be all the more reason to keep it in its current condition. I'm obviously not as aware of your local gun laws as I am with mine here in the States (this is not meant to start such a discussion, so please let's keep this thread on track) but if you've had your Artsee replica taken in the post, what's to say sending this one out won't result in the same? It seems you were lucky to get this one, so maybe you should count your blessings.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:34 am

GCR wrote: According to the MI6 armorer in "Dr. No", it has a delivery "like a brick through a plate glass window".

Hope this helps

-GCR

That line always tickled me, as a 7.65 was also referred to as a 9mm 'short', and had about the same velocity as a .32. Pretty anemic round.

I mean, a pellet gun or .22 short would have the same effect on a plate glass window as a thrown brick. It would break!

Regards! Michaelson

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:20 am

I mean, a pellet gun or .22 short would have the same effect on a plate glass window as a thrown brick. It would break!

Good point...

-GCR

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:55 pm

they were just trying to sell it to bond as he didn't want to give up his beretta to M at the time.....

.....has the delivery of a brick through a plate glass window!!!! but be careful bond, you'll find out that it won't deliver and jam up nicely when being attacked by a large hulking man with steel teeth........you'll also find out that your accent will change from scottish to english and your hair will turn blonde.....go figure????

Terryhimself · Post by **Terryhimself** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:09 pm

7.65 is .32 A.C.P. 9mm.Short is .380 A.C.P. They are all enemic for self defense but I do not want to get hit by them!

hanson · Post by **hanson** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:39 pm

you should probably leave it in its original condition because having it reblued will destroy the value just as it would on a real walther. but, if a magnet is attracted to strongly, it will most likely reblue. regards,hanson.

Dostacos · Post by **Dostacos** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:56 pm

Michaelson wrote:
GCR wrote: According to the MI6 armorer in "Dr. No", it has a delivery "like a brick through a plate glass window".

Hope this helps

-GCR
That line always tickled me, as a 7.65 was also referred to as a 9mm 'short', and had about the same velocity as a .32. Pretty anemic round.

I mean, a pellet gun or .22 short would have the same effect on a plate glass window as a thrown brick. It would break!

Regards! Michaelson

I have a Walther PP in .32ACP bought it for my wife thinking if a .380 has a mild recoil then the 32 would even be better for her as protection [she has MS and recoil means 1 shot and she is done for the day]

boy was I wrong that bad boy has some kick to it best part is it fits real nice in a front pocket

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:45 am

Thanks for the correction, Terry. I had forgotten the .380 designation for 9mm short. I was thinking .32 ACP, as my best friend OWNS one, but typed 9mm. duh!

The biggest problem with those Walthers are for folks with big hands, the slide tends to slice the heck out of the top of the hand if you hold too high on the grip, like we used to doing with a revolver. I was warned by an old target shooter of this, but still got nicked by the slide the first round I fired.

As to the bluing, it looks like honest wear to me. Personally I'd just keep a light coating of gun oil on the gun and not change a thing. It gives it 'personality' and shows it's been around, replica or not.

Regards! Michaelson

Terryhimself · Post by **Terryhimself** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:47 am

The new U.S. PPK-PPK/S, have the top of the frame extended a bit to form a slight beavertail. This helps to stop the slide from cutting the web of the hand.
Years ago, I carried a Beretta .25 on occasion and would always end up
with two perfect cuts from the rails......Terry

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:53 am

Yep. Many folks have the scars to prove it too, don't they Terry?

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:42 pm

I'd leave in it's condtion, looks more SA. I have acouple of replicas my self and if I'm correct, taking it to a gunsmith to have it reblued might not work any way. Most replicas tend to be made of an alloy type metal and don't take very well to being reblued. But I'm basing this of an entirely different MFG, (Replica model inc) they used to be around in the late 70's and 80's. My MP-40 is from them, it was pertty worn and all I did was cleaned it up, sprayed it w/gloss black, looks ok.
Heres acouple of pics, wouldn't no it was a fake, unless you happen to look down the barrel and notice that it's full.
Croft
[img][img]http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z145 ... eiser1.jpg[/img][/img]

My old Avatar,
[img][img]http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z145 ... hMP401.jpg[/img][/img]

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:57 pm

i said........DON'T CALL ME JUNIOR!!!!

nice croft!

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:58 pm

I guess that's ONE way to get the kids up for school.

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:53 pm

And scare the dickens out of someone who might think it's real. Happen once when I first got, meant to scare a friend and ended up scaring a neighbor. No police (got lucky) but she wasn't pleased, I showed her that the barrel was plugged and she let me off easy. Some fake can look very much real to someone who doesn't know better.
Croft

carebear · Post by **carebear** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:32 pm

If you do want to redo the finish you can use a bake-on product like Gun-cote or Dura-cote and do it in the oven at home.

Indy45 · Post by **Indy45** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:30 pm

Taz,

Sorry I'm late to this thead, but here's the scoop.

What you have is a Replica Model made about 1975 by a company MRC which I think stands for Model Replica Corporation.

In their catalog it's called a "German PPK Automatic", and it takes machined brass 6.35 mm dummy shells. It's made of cast and machined zinc parts, and takes down (disassembles) much like a real PPK. For us kids in the 70's, it was the closest thing we could get to a James Bond Walther PPK. That model is interesting in that the trigger ties to the slide and pulling the trigger chambers and ejects rounds from the clip.

It might take blueing, but I wouldn't worry about it looking a little worn (unless it shows a lot of silver). In the US, there are cold blueing pens availble that either chemically or pigment (paint) re-touch blued finishes, one I have is made by Birchwood/Casey. I'm not sure about hot tank gun blueing, as zinc has a much lower melting point than steel.

That PPK -is- the perfect weapon for a German WWII officer's uniform. I think I just saw brown PPK holsters on sale at Sportman's Guide, a steal at $4.95.

That replica sold for $29.95 in the 70's (pricey then, but the same quality now would be $100s!) I have a Colt Officer's model 45 ACP and a 1934 Beretta by the same company. To my knowledge MRC is out of business, and the replicas sold by other companies today are mostly plastic.

I wish I would've bought more, (the 1975 MRC catalog had Winchesters, Colts, Lugers, Enfied 38s, Mauser Broomhandles, and even a Browning HiPower) but $30-$80 was a lot of money in those days...

Regards,
Indy45

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:11 pm

Ya know Indy45 I think you have the name right and I have it wrong

on my post for my MP-40. I had a .38 special, a Colt Python and 1911, these were awsome replicas for those times, which were of course simpler times. Now you show one of those and before you no it your feet back and spread em before you can blink.

Croft

jkingrph · Post by **jkingrph** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:04 pm

Michaelson wrote:
GCR wrote: According to the MI6 armorer in "Dr. No", it has a delivery "like a brick through a plate glass window".

Hope this helps

-GCR
That line always tickled me, as a 7.65 was also referred to as a 9mm 'short', and had about the same velocity as a .32. Pretty anemic round.

I mean, a pellet gun or .22 short would have the same effect on a plate glass window as a thrown brick. It would break!

Regards! Michaelson

7.65 was never referred to as 9mm short. The 380acp is the cartridge referred to as 9mm short. I do not have my references with me but the 7.65 is a 32 cal whereas the 9mm is same diameter as .357, 38 spc. 380.

Sometimes numbers were used for calibers because they sound good, not reflecting actual bore or bullet diameter . ex 38 special is .357, 44 mag/44 spc is actually .429 or a 43 caliber.

Fatdutchman · Post by **Fatdutchman** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:38 pm

Years and years ago, I had a "model 1911 .45 caliver" pot metal/zinc fake pistol. I BELIEVE that the maker was "MGC" in Japan. The hammer broke on me once, and I actually wrote the company/importer and they sent me a new hammer. I doubt they even exist anymore. This was sometime in the '80's.

The zinc metal will blue easily with any cold blue formula (based mostly on copper sulphate). When I got mine, all the blueing was completely gone, but the cold blueing colored it right up....of course, it didn't last very long, and rubbed off pretty quickly. The metal is really soft and quite weak, so I'm not surprised your trigger mechanism doesn't work. Unless the manufacturer still exists and you can get replacement parts, I can't imagine it being "cost-effective" to have it repaired by having parts made.

Magnum Jones · Post by **Magnum Jones** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:43 pm

Just a guess but it may be chambered in the 9X18 like many eastern block pistols of the era such as the makarov 9X18. In between the standard 9X19 and .380

Fatdutchman · Post by **Fatdutchman** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:58 am

The classic PP/ PPK cartridge is the 7.65mm, which is really the .32 ACP. At some point, they started making them in .380ACP. I don't know when that was, probably the '70's....

The 9x18mm is the Makarov cartridge, and is the pipsqueak Russian service cartridge. The Makarov is a rather larger (and uglier) copy of a PP.

Magnum Jones · Post by **Magnum Jones** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:23 pm

That looks like a walther ppk or a copy with the grips changed. The same gun carried by James Bond.

Gun Experts Help???

Gun Experts Help???

hat

7.65

Walthers

Replica Model!