Handle of a bullwhip as a weapon?

[Kodiak]

I've been outside with my whip almost every day in the last week, and I seem to have discovered something. We all seem to know that a bullwhip can be used to whip somebody, steal their weapons, and possibly even swing on. But could the steel core of a whip handle be used in a hand-to-hand Indy-style fight?

[BendingOak]

I would have to say yes. Whould you want to be hit over the head with a whip handle?

[G-MANN]

I am not sure why you ask this question. Just about anything can be used as a weapon in hand to hand combat.

Cheers,
G-MANN

[thefish]

I tend to agree with G-Mann on this. Anything can be used as an effective weapon, (which is why I think Ohio's laws are some of the most sound on "deadly weapon" charges. Rather than going through and exhaustingly defining EVERYTHING that is or is not classified as a weapon, they keep it broad and say that anything USED as a deadly weapon essentially IS a deadly weapon. This has also unfortunately led to many spurious and ridiculous criminal and civil court cases, but people are people...)

However, for a more detailed treatice on the subsonic use of whips in combat, read Tom Meadows book "The Filipino Fighting Whip."

Tom and his associates, (including the notorious Mr. Anthony DeLongis,) have developed lots of techniques for using short whips, (5-8 foot,) in conjunction with knife, (the basis for Tom's "Latigo y Daga" style,) including flipping the whip over and using the knot as a sap, or the whole handle/transition area for escrima-like blocks and strikes.

You can also hold the whip coiled up, or in a single loose loop, to wrap and ensnare weapons and limbs while you're grappling with opponants when they close range enough for cracking to be ineffective.

I've also determined that using the skinny wrist loop of a Jacka whip to rake across an opponant's eyes for "in your face" ranges can work too.

Now, mind you, like most unorthodox weapon techniques in the martial arts, Mr. Meadows book should be read critically. There are many claims that Meadows makes that I don't necessarily buy into, and there's some stuff that I downright think is bollocks. I ALSO disagree with the general approach to the whip AS a deadly weapon in the first place. Not that it isn't, but as G-Mann says, WHAT isn't in the right hands?

The whip is maligned by the public enough as it is, and I personally think that Mr. Meadows demonstrations to police officers on the brutal stuff you can do with whips, (including a scenario he describes about disarming a police officer with a whip from the drivers seat though the window of a car,) to be a SIGNIFICANT PART of the reason for the problems SO CAL cops have given some of the whip crackers on this board, (Meadows is out of CA, and does training for law enforment, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the trigger happy cop who make across Strider in a park had either worked with Meadows or at least heard of him.)

So, while I respect the work of Mr. Meadows and associates, I do have THAT little bone to pick with him, and I encourage anyone from the board who reads the book to tread EXTREMELY lightly if you decided to practice anything Meadows writes about, other than exercises and katas. BUT it is an interesting read, and an excellent take on a non-European approach to whip cracking.

My production team is planning on exploring and utilizing a considerable number of these techniques in the movie "Cliffhanger: Symposium of Justice" which we are shooting this summer.

So, take care, good luck, and happy, (non-combative,) cracking!

-Dan

[Floribama Steve]

I think a coiled bullwhip would work well too, using it as a sort of flail to the opponent's face.

[BullWhipBorton]

Yes, Just about anything can be used at a weapon if that is the intent, ironically enough many of the things we considers as “weapons” today gradually evolved from simple tools. With out going into too much “philosophy” the whip is no different.

The lead weighted handle of a bullwhip, or even the longer crop handle stock whip could most certainly be used as a club, flexible black jack or in a nunchaku like fashion if needed. The rest of the thong can also used for entanglement tactics and ensnaring limbs. As previously stated, many whip handlers who focus primarily on the martial arts aspects of the whip incorporate these qualities in their training techniques. Various videos and books go into greater detail on this area of whip work if you’re interested in learning more about them.

Dan

[G-MANN]

Yes, Just about anything can be used at a weapon if that is the intent, ironically enough many of the things we considers as “weapons” today gradually evolved from simple tools. With out going into too much “philosophy” the whip is no different.

Dan

Exactly,

Have you ever seen the beggining of 2001 Space Odysey :

Cheers,
G-MANN

[Kodiak]

I think I might have misspoken my question...

I didn't mean "can a bullwhip handle be used for a weapon" in theory, I meant it more in the practical sense. You guys might have answered this slightly revised question, but that's more what I meant. I have the bruises to prove that a whip handle can be a weapon, but my question is rather if a person happened to be caught up in a hand-to-hand, do or die fight, would it be practical to grab the flexible part of the whip and flail away with the handle?

[Indiana Jerry]

Mine has an iron shot core, so for me the answer is yes. (Ouch.)

But regardless, pretty much any whip handle should function as a blackjack if you don't have room to use the whole whip or are forced to fight at close quarters.

[G-MANN]

Yes, you could use it that way. However if your opponent is stronger or more adept at fighting it can also be taken away from you and used against you. As with any other non-firing weapon.

Cheers,
G-MANN

P.S. But when it comes to that type of fight, Anything Goes.

[Kodiak]

Yes, you could use it that way. However if your opponent is stronger or more adept at fighting it can also be taken away from you and used against you. As with any other non-firing weapon.

Cheers,
G-MANN

P.S. But when it comes to that type of fight, Anything Goes.

That was the majority of my question. I think that the coiled whip could get tangled up, which wouldn't be cool. I would also think that the lanyard-like thing at the end could get hung up and cause problems. I just mentioned this in case there were any Lucasfilm guys hanging around looking for ideas for Indy IV .

[Strider]

The New Bullwhip Book has this to say on the subject:

A whip is at its most dangerous at the moment it cracks, and is usually fully extended when this happens. For a short whip, the danger zone is between four and six feet (1.2m to 1.8m) from the whip handler. If you are facing an opponent with a short whip in a fight, you have two options. You can run away, or you can move closer and attempt to punch, kick, or grapple with the whip handler. If you are closer than four feet (1.2m), you are too close to be easily hit by the cracking end of the whip, but watch out for a quick flip or a switch to the other hand to turn that whip into a blackjack.

Short whip fighters will usually retreat from someone who tries to grapple with them, while dealing quick stinging blows aimed at both sides of the head and torso. When a blow connects and the pain distracts the opponent, the whip handler can then reverse the whip, and use the handle for a disabling blow.

Additionally, it adds:

I have seen a whip with two metal rings at the handle end, which allow it to be fastened round your waist and used as a belt. Note that unless you have spent a number of hours practicing the use of a whip, pepper spray is likely to provide a more effective form of defense, if it is legal in your jurisdiction. The other advantage of pepper spray is that when you take it out to use it, your pants don't fall down.

[BendingOak]

Stider, you should really stay out of this thread. Trouble seems to find you without you looking for it. It must be that big spoon you carry with you.

[Strider]

Well, you know what they say about the size of a guy's spoon .....








He can eat a lot of soup.

[BendingOak]

yes, big spoon , to stur up big trouble.

[BullWhipBorton]

I didn't mean "can a bullwhip handle be used for a weapon" in theory, I meant it more in the practical sense. You guys might have answered this slightly revised question, but that's more what I meant. I have the bruises to prove that a whip handle can be a weapon, but my question is rather if a person happened to be caught up in a hand-to-hand, do or die fight, would it be practical to grab the flexible part of the whip and flail away with the handle?

Yes, in a practical sense you could beat the #### out of some one with the weighted handle of a bullwhip if you had too, just as you could with a lead pipe. It's not something I would recommend doing, it’s not a very nice thing to do to someone and is one of those things that casts a shadow on reputation of the whip and gets people like Strider in trouble. However with that said, if someone was tying to seriously injure you or worse, I suppose like the song says “anything goes”

BTW, If your getting bruised up for the handle of your own whip, I think you my be trying to crack the wrong end.

[Kodiak]

BTW, If your getting bruised up for the handle of your own whip, I think you my be trying to crack the wrong end.

Ha ha ha. You very funny. I've got some mad bullwhip skills, thank you very much .

[Strider]

Let's see 'em! There's a video thread 'specially for you down in Lao Che's!

[astroboy]

you could butt someones eye out with it...very useful that handle ..