Taper tutorial......

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:30 pm

With the taper issue being on the forefront, I thought it might be a good time to show some examples, and what a little steam and re-bashing will do.

Here is a hat that I sold last November, and I just got it back in for a reblock, as it has been worn in the rain a few times. He of course, wants the taper blocked out. http://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/reb ... date3.html

Yep, definetely tapered. So, I pop out the creases to see what it looks like open crown. http://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/reb ... idate.html

I see there is some going on at the top, but not too bad. I look at the side, where the taper normally shows up first.http://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/reb ... date2.html

Yep, the front and back have some taper, but I know that this will vanish when I crease the top, as it is a very tall hat.

So, I pull out the steamer, and steam the hat while it is open crown. I let it dry and then re-bash the hat. Here is what a simple re-bash job yielded on this hat. http://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/som ... style.html

And a side view. http://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/ste ... style.html

Now, the main reason for the taper was, once this hat got wet, the top crease was allowed to deform, and it dried in that state. Dried in taper. Here is what I am talking about. http://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/par ... lprit.html

I will reblock this hat for the fellow, but if it were mine, I would have just re-styled it myself.

Your money, and you can spend it as you want.

I have seen pics of my hats here, that I had to wonder if it was actually a hat that I had made, as they looked nothing like what I sent.

I am still trying to figure that out. I have seen hats with popped up crowns, and the customer, I assume just wore it like that. Weird. My take on hat wearing is, if you are gonna wear a hat, for god's sake, learn how to restyle it once it gets mis-shapened. If you cannot do that, you need to switch to ball caps.

The real moral to the story is this. If you receive a hat from me that looks like this. http://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/reb ... date3.html

This means that this hat can look better than this. http://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/som ... style.html

because it is fresh off of the block and will not be as tapered as the reblock featured here. It appears to me, that somehow, some of the hats get knocked out of kilter in the shipping. A public service announcement from you lovable hatter.

Fedora

Luisiana Jones · Post by **Luisiana Jones** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:37 pm

Thank you for that short tutorial Steve, you see guys im not blind i could clearly see a hat tapered there

Regards from Spain Mr.Delk

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:53 pm

Holy cow! That hat look great! Once you rebashed it it took on a great reverse taper.

Put the ribbon back on and it will look a lot like this hat here,or here.

Is that beaver or rabbit felt Steve?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:56 pm

It is beaver felt. I would not trust the rabbit to perk back up, as generally once the rabbit starts to taper, it is an accelerated taper. Beaver seems to do it gradually, and in degrees. regards, Fedora

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:59 pm

I wanted to throw my thoughts in here for a sec.

Lets be honest folks, when you take those adventurebilts out of the box you are pretty impressed! I have gotten two from steve and both times I have had a near perfect hat.

I say near perfect because on my LC style the brim settled in shipping and became a bit flat.

Now, I am going to be honest here. When I first got my LC style I did what most people probably do, take it out, look at it, try it on, like it a lot...and then log onto COW for every tutorial written on doing something to your hat!

I was steaming the brim, spraying it with stiffener, waterproofing (which took out the stiffener) so I stiffened again, shaped, re-shaped...messed messed messed, within the first 2 days!!

You all saw my post on fuzzy fedoras, that was because I sprayed so much @#$% on the hat that it had to be sanded to get it looking good again. I am actually sure I might have even tapered the right side of the hat, but since it's a LC style it's not noticeable.

My point is, I think a lot of us have these worries pounded into our heads about Taper, water, sun, sitting, steaming...that we become all paranoid and feel we have to mess with the hats for fear of them turning to dust in our hands.

I learned my lesson with my LC hat, I cleaned up the fur, put the shape back to where it started (I took pics right out of the box) and I have left it on the stand since. I have had to force myself to leave it on the stand to almost "punish" myself for what I attempted to do.

So the long of the short of it is...When you get your hats...my advice is to wear them without any messing for at least two weeks. Let your mind and your hat get used to the idea...then, and only then if you feel it needs work, then do so.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:59 pm

Thats not to reassuring for us rabbit AB owners.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:03 pm

Akubra Fed's are rabbit too, and they hold up, so don't worry to much about that, Weaver! Like I said, I have one of Fedora's Argentine rabbit AB's, and no problems to date, and it's been in rain, snow, and high heat.

Regards! Michaelson

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:05 pm

J_Weaver wrote:Thats not to reassuring for us rabbit AB owners.

It sounds like we will all get to the same place eventually if we do not take care of our hats. The rabbit owners will just get there sooner

It is a race I will be glad to lose...

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:46 pm

OK, I need to ask a few questions here, as not only being a new fedora owner, but a first time hat owner at that!

(I know...I know...PICTURES! Well the work digicam is out of the office & I catch a plane to China on Sunday, so it will have to wait a little bit

)

I recently received a beaver AB from Steve. Size 7 1/8, 5 1/2 inch open crown, Raiders Cairo bar scene bash. Obviously I'm very happy with it

Now, as CLM has already highlighted, being no different to anyone, I've messed about with my hat, trying to get it to exactly match the look in certain pictures (in defence the crown bash had popped out a bit during shipping

). However, having read advice here previously, anything I have done has only involved me dry bashing, by pushing, pinching & prodding with my own two hands. No steam, no water, no stiffener, no waterproof treatment. I also haven't worn this hat yet & it does fit my head very comfortably.

Basically I've REALLY tightened the front pinch & put a nice deep'ish crease in the top. Hat looks great, except an ever so slight taper to the sides. To be honest, my hat looks pretty much like the hat on the main page of Steve's Adventurebilt website. Now feel free to slap the dumb newbie, coz I'm probably wrong & will accept that; but in that pic in the mainpage, that hat appears to have a slight taper to the left side (as you look at it) even tho' the right side is straight. Correct?

(At this stage I'm wondering if I'm imagining things...

)

So, I already figured the deeper crown crease probably pulled the sides in a bit (pushing out the crease confirmed this when the side went straight again) & if as Rick said in another thread, tightening the pinch at the front also causes slight taper/pulling in of the sides, my question is...

How do you get the tight Raiders pinch & deep crown crease/bash?

I was discussing this with Al the other night & figured the top bash might best be achieved without tapering the sides, by having a 6 inch open crown & then use the extra height to create that deep bash. I mean look at this picture…

…there seems to be ALOT of hat jammed down into that top bash. So now with the fact that a really tight front pinch can cause taper, I’m confused & not so sure

Anyone have any answers?

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:53 pm

As for the main page taper, yup I've noticed that too.

I think we've all wondered that about Raiders too. And nobody seems to have solved it. Although I can see where 3thoubucks has developed his theories about being formed on the block.

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:57 pm

I think Skippy makes an excellent point and one probably worthy of its own thread. There is a lot of hat tucked down into that top crease of Indy's hat. If I did that with any of my hats or any hat I have ever seen offered by anyone, the crown would be about 4" high.

I would love to hear other people's ideas, theories, and observations of this; that's why I think it would be great if there were a thread devoted to it.

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:11 pm

I'll start a thread.

Ghos7a55assin · Post by **Ghos7a55assin** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:43 am

I don't think it was a taller crown- I think the combination of Ford's ear placement and how he tilts the hat back allows him to wear it higher and allows for a deeper bash.

Vannevar · Post by **Vannevar** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:51 am

none of the photos work for me. I click the link and it states path not found . I have tried explorer and opera. whats up?

nicmusto · Post by **nicmusto** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:33 am

yeh me too, Fedora can you get the pics up directly on the forum as those likes don't work for me either and as a new HJ owner already out in rain and shine I'd really like to know what to do visualy when the dreaded taper begins.

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:40 pm

Fedora is always changing his photos. Those he posted in June are no longer there.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:34 pm

I will see if I can find those pics and re-post. Basically, if you pop out the crown and there is little taper showing, you can crease that hat so it will be straight sided again. It all depends on how much taper the hat has. Careful styling can make even a slightly tapered hat look untapered. Sometimes it is a two-handed procedure, but you would be amazed at how good you can make one look. Lots of hats that I get back for reblocks actually only needed a new crease job. I used one for the above pics, that I deleted here awhile back, to show what I was talking about. Helpful info for those who have a "creased taper" Fedora

nicmusto · Post by **nicmusto** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:19 pm

with all this talk of taper I'm already worried and I've only had the hat since Wednesday. What is the best way to avoid it, baring in mind that I will be out in all weathers especially the wet kind! Should I just leave the hat to dry very naturally at room temperature, or should I push out the crown bashes and the leave to dry at room temp??
Help me before I have to go into see a shrink!!!!!
Nic

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:23 pm

Well, I lost the pics when I moved the shop and got a new pc. I have numerous hats in for reblocks and will see if there is a good example there or a creased taper. If so, I will take some new pics tomorrow!

It seems the depth of Indy's top crease varied. Look at this one. http://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/pecan1.html Fedora

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:33 am

Fedora when you'll have time (i know recently you got a lot of requests so i bet you're very busy now) you should do a nice TAPER TUTORIAL maybe in pdf so we wont loose the pics and we will be able to save it on our computers and open it when we need (practically 5 times a day

... ten times for the most paranoid people

).
It would be very useful.
Thank you.

regards. Erri Wan

prairiejones · Post by **prairiejones** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:10 am

I was watching the movie with my daughter yesterday and noticed the same thing in that exact scene. Especially when he is walking up to the cave entrance, before he puts the dirt in the bag. You get a good side/top shot. The back looks very tall in this shot.

prairiejones · Post by **prairiejones** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:01 pm

Example

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:45 pm

On the opposite, in cairo scenes you see a not tall hat

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:50 pm

I don't know - this one still looks pretty tall

:

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:51 pm

The photo looks compressed to me.

Regards! Michaelson

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:57 pm

Here is the original uncropped screengrab:

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:07 pm

OK, that does look tall to me. I was thinking Pagey's new AB was a bit too tall, but having seen this pics I'm now not so sure

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:30 pm

erri_wan wrote:On the opposite, in cairo scenes you see a not tall hat

Wait wait... i wasnt speaking of the airplane scene. I saw some Behind the Scenes pics where i see a not-tall-at-all hat. Sorry if i wasnt able to find it again, when i find that pic i'll post it.

Vannevar · Post by **Vannevar** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:39 pm

Michaelson wrote:The photo looks compressed to me. Regards! Michaelson

You are right! Raiders is viewed at 16x9. This information according to IMDB.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082971/technical

Most screen grabs arent properly captured by the dvd playing software.

Still looks a bit tall though.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:08 am

Vannevar wrote:
Still looks a bit tall though.

It looks normal size to me

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:10 am

Vannevar wrote:
Michaelson wrote:The photo looks compressed to me. Regards! Michaelson
You are right! Raiders is viewed at 16x9. This information according to IMDB.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082971/technical

Most screen grabs arent properly captured by the dvd playing software.

Still looks a bit tall though.

Interesting! Which player are you using?

VP · Post by VP » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:38 am

In those pics the video ratio has been resized to 16:9 or 1.85:1, when the original was 2.35:1. I usually resize Indy screengrabs to 720x413 with the black bars.

Vannevar · Post by **Vannevar** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:15 am

Hiya, I use an old version of power dvd. It captures the same sort of thing you posted but I resize the pic to the proper proportions in photoshop.

VP, 2.35:1 is what it was filmed (if one looks at a film frame thats what one will see) but it is shown on screen at 16x9.

VP · Post by VP » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:19 am

Actually they film it stretched and then resize it at theaters, televisions and computer screens. Read this: http://gregl.net/videophile/anamorphic.htm

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:11 am

Vannevar wrote:Hiya, I use an old version of power dvd. It captures the same sort of thing you posted but I resize the pic to the proper proportions in photoshop.

VP, 2.35:1 is what it was filmed (if one looks at a film frame thats what one will see) but it is shown on screen at 16x9.

Oh, so you just streched my jpg - can you get a grab of your player with that frame for a REAL comparison?

VP · Post by VP » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:13 am

Your pic is the way that the movie is stored on the dvd, but not they way that it's seen everywhere. Check my link in the previous post.