Club Obi Wan

I am afraid even beaver felt is not taper proof. The only hats that are, are the vintage hats in which the felt is dead and no longer reacts to the environment. The good thing about beaver felt is its ability to be reblocked for many years, so you don't have to replace it with another hat.

Stiffener does give you a little more time, but even stiff hats will taper. But, no other felt will keep your head as dry, for as long, than beaver felt.

I have gotten back a few of my hats that looked tapered, when it was nothing more than the hat settling into a tapered look, when the top cent sunk down too low. Also, a 5 3/4 crown hat will do this quicker than a 5 1/2 crowned hat. Also if the hat is soft, sitting it on its brim as a habit will make the hat look tapered, as we have seen here in the past when brand new Optimos were pictured, sitting on their brims, and they looked tapered, when they were actually not. But, this is not the case with your AB Tone, as you said it was taperd while on your head.

A copious amount of steam is an enemy of any new felt. You can use a small amount to style the hat, but if you use too much, it relaxes the shape, because steam relaxes the felt itselt. Once the felt is relaxed, and not on a block, when it dries, it can shrink in order to become tight again.

I have owned every Indy hat out there, and it has been my experience that the AB sure lasted longer before tapering, than the other hats I have owned.

I am afraid the nature of new felt at least, is to shrink, when exposed to heat and water. And untill the felt dies, which can take 5 to 8 years, reblocks will be needed if you want to keep the pristine straight sided hat. On a hat that is tapered like the TOD hat, since the hat is already tapered, these will hold that shape for a whole lot longer, in fact, they may never need a reblock. The hat starts out as a cone. If you make a square shape out of the hat, it has been stretched out in order to do this, on the top of the cone. The only thing that seems to alleviate this is the age of the felt.

The ageing deal that Marc came up with, may add some time to how long it takes for a reblock to be needed, but it will not eliminate shrinkage in the same way that an truely aged hat will do.

Back in the old days, there were scores of hat shops and scores of dry cleaners. They all offered reblock services. This shows you that nothing has changed in hats from then to now.

What I need to do is to run a comparison of a beaver hat versus a rabbit hat and subject them to the same thing. I think you will see the beaver will not taper nearly as fast as a rabbit. I have experienced this personally in my own 7000 dollar collection of hats.

Although your hat appears to be tapered, it looks nothing like some rabbit hats I have seen here over the years that had tapered. Many of those rabbit hats were pointy on the top due to the extreme taper.

If that were my hat Tone, I would pop out the crown and use a hand held steamer, to steam the hat, the upper half. Then I would put my fists inside and punch the felt out on the top, and upper sides, where the taper is. Push your fists apart like you were doing isometric exercises. Steam again and repeat. Many time the hats that I get back suddenly are not tapered anymore. Then let it dry in the open crown state. Once it is dry, re bash it again. It is worth the effort, in most cases.

For me, if I were a serious hat wearer(which I am) I would invest in the next smaller size block and periodically pull it over the block to maintian that straight sided look. Afterall, you see so many vintage blocks on ebay that came from the estate of some guy who passed away. They used them back then to keep the hats looking new.


But if we are looking for a new felt hat that will not taper with time and wear, there ain't no such animal that I know of. Felt is made because it has the ability to shrink to a particular size. When they size hats in the factories, they just shrink it down in boiling water until it meets the specs of a particular size. If felt would not shrink, you could not even make fur felt as the shrinkage is what creates the felt. There is a point that felt will stop shrinking, once it shrinks to a certain point. But, since the body started out as a cone, you would have a smaller hat, that looked like a cone.

I have vintage hats that will not shrink, or shrink so very little that you cannot notice it. But the felt has to die in order for this to happen. And that takes years.

and the top dent has to be pulled wide (and inaccurate) to get the sides to stay halfway straight at this point.

I just caught the above quote from Tone. That is exactly what I see in some of the reblocks. The top crease deforms, by getting deeper, and that in turn, pulls the sides of the hat inwards. Once the felt "sets" to this the problems arise with the taper. I know this sounds nuts, but what I used to do to my own hats, and not necessarily ABs is the old ruler trick. I recrease the top of the hat, after a bit of steam from a hand held steamer, and while the hat is still warm on the top, I beat the top of the hat with a wood ruler, which flattens out the humps, and it also pushes the top side of the hat out. Sometimes I do this many times, until the hat looks right again. I have had excellence results from using this. Give those a try and see if it helps. Fedora

Thanks, Fedora.
Just to clarify: This isn't a case of copious amounts of steam since I don't use steam to bash hats. As a matter of fact, I'm 100% against going near the stuff. The only thing I steamed was the "brim" of the Akubra since it's so stiff and non-reactive to the turn. The AB doesn't need it, the JPD doesn't need it. I do not use steam to bash my hats. For the most part they are dry bashed with an occassional spritz of cold water only to cinch in a pinch.

So a common reblock request is due to the top of the crown settling inward. How much is a reblock and can more stiffener be requested?

Yes, I would say most of the reblocks was from the settling in of the top crease, and it occurs more on the taller hat that I have made. The 5 3/4 variety. But I have seen a handfull that had indeed tapered. And honestly, I think some of that lies with my felt maker. I have constantly noticed differences in the felt that I recieve, and it shows up when I work the felt to made the hats. I think it is a common flaw with all modern felt, due to the inexperience of the hourly workers. Once upon a time, there was little turnover in hat factories, because hatters had the upper crust of blue collar jobs. They were paid more than other factory workers of their time. This allowed the factories to train and keep employees until they got the gold watch at retirement. Nowadays, this just is not the case at all. I think part of the problem with modern felt is the lack of training, and the pride that used to be part of the American work ethic. I think there are so many reasons, and they all add up.

I charge 35 bucks for reblocks if I can use the same sweatband, and 40 if I have to make a new one. The reblock comes with a new ribbon and liner. And each reblock, further stabilizes the felt so it should last longer before a new reblock is needed. I think once the hats get to be 5 to 8 years old, the reblocks won't be necessary anymore, but we will have to wait to see on that one. I do know aged felt, naturally aged felt does indeed die, and the environment no longer makes them shrink on the top protion of the hat.

I will post some pics here soon of the dog eaten hat that stays outside, showing the taper that comes from the settled in top crease, and then a pic showing what a steaming and rebash and ruler treatment can do to the taper issue. This may help some guys who want to hang on to their hats longer before sendingit back to be reblocked. Fedora

Okay, Fedora, even though my original AB was dry, I tried the ruler trick a couple of times and I did notice some straightening out! With mine, the center dent is deep, but has a memory of it, so I can't shallow it without a reblock. Still, I've done enough loosening of this felt, as this is the hat I've additionally sat on and beat up, apart from wearing it everywhere!

Hey Steve - I've sent you a PM regarding my AB

In Christ,
Shane

Okay, Fedora, even though my original AB was dry, I tried the ruler trick a couple of times and I did notice some straightening out! With mine, the center dent is deep, but has a memory of it, so I can't shallow it without a reblock. Still, I've done enough loosening of this felt, as this is the hat I've additionally sat on and beat up, apart from wearing it everywhere!

I can't do it without using steam to relax the felt on top Bink. You are right. The felt does develop a memory, especially on the top crease.
Sometimes I have to punch out the hat to open crown, steam the upper 1 /3 of the crown and punch of the upper sides of the hat, trying to make the hat squarer looking. Then I let it dry-open crowned.

I then crease the hat, while it is dry, then hit the humps, and the upper sides of the humps(not the crease in the top) with some steam from the hand held steamer, and beat it with a ruler to flatten out the humps and to mushroom out the upper sides. I may have to repeat this several times, allowing the hat to dry between efforts. If this does not fix the problem, I then get ready to reblock the hat. Once you get the hat to where it is not tapered, if you have some scouts stiffener, spray the inside of the humps to help them hold this shape, as to retard the memory the softer felt developed.

Some advice that most already know about......never store your hat sitting on the brim. This will make most soft hats taper, and you don't want the felt to remember that. I always place my hats on a surface, on the crown. Never on the brim.

Let me go and take a few minutes to see how this outside dog eaten hat responds, as I have noticed that the top crease is really deep now from water filling it up, softening the felt and causing the sides to pull in. Since this hat has been outside since last fall I think, it will show what has happened to constant exposure to rain and sun and temp changes. Perhaps it will show(fingers crossed) what can be done prior to sending a hat back to be reblocked. Stay tuned. Fedora

the wabbit's are here!

i asked steve for an extra 1/4" on the crown so its 5 3/4".

i must admit that steve bashed this perfectly....i barely had to do anything out of the box. once again, a big thanks to steve for all of his hard work

Wow!

That's a great looking AB Rabbit you got there Indiana G.

Thanks for posting some pics. Now I REALLY can't wait to get mine.

Beautiful hat! I think that extra 1/4" is right for your face. Out of curiosity, when did you place your order? I'm still looking forward to beaver I ordered amid the rabbit frenzy.

thanks gents. still doing some tweaking on the wabbit.

i got in on the rabbit deal when everyone else did. i think it was late october?

Boing, boing..... looks awsome my friend. You don't even notice the extra 1/4". Looks right on you. Can't wait know for mine to show up, I'm asuming your one of the "10".
Once again awsome lookin lid.

Croft

Indiana G, that hat looks super! The swoopy brim is outstanding. Congratulations. You made out like a bandit with that rabbit deal.

After seeing those pictures I bet Pitfall Harry is climbing the walls with anticipation!

-Mac

Congrats IndyG! That is on beautiful hat! Looks Great!

Mac wrote:
After seeing those pictures I bet Pitfall Harry is climbing the walls with anticipation!

-Mac

Climbing them! Oh, I'm passed that. I'm now clawing my way through the wall!

Pitfall Harry wrote:

Mac wrote:
After seeing those pictures I bet Pitfall Harry is climbing the walls with anticipation!

-Mac

Climbing them! Oh, I'm passed that. I'm now clawing my way through the wall!

I'm past the wall and standing outside!!

Good looking hat G!

For info, the rabbit hats are being worked in with reblocks, and beaver orders. I am slowly getting them out. There is no rhyme or reason to all of this, but much of it depends on blocks being tied up, and I have to skip the next, say 7 1/4 on the list due to that block(s) being tied up. Also, the ageing process takes extra time, and it is tempting to not do it, but HOW can I not do it?? Once you know how much the "treatment" helps, I just have to do it.

The good news is, I think in another 2 months, I will be back to a better turnaround time. It looks that way just by looking at the orders. Heck, I may get back down to 12 weeks by summer!!! Fedora

Fedora, you'll finally feel on top of things just as IndyIV comes out, and then all heck will break loose and you'll be burried in orders again!

You shouldn't remind him.

Fedora, you'll finally feel on top of things just as IndyIV comes out, and then all heck will break loose and you'll be burried in orders again!

Hmmm. That might be a good time to pass the torch on. If it got worse than it has been, I could not handle it. Handmaking hats ain't the way to go if you get alot of orders. It just takes too long to get them out the door.

I really could invest in the machines and make these hats cookie cutter style, but they would not be the same. If I were just wanting to make and sell hats, I would do it. But, believe it or not, I don't make Indy fedoras just to be able to make and sell Indy hats. I want to make them the way that was common back in Indy's day, and that is the way the small hat shops made them. Sure, there were big factories making hats back then, but the really good hats came from small hatters, doing them the way I am doing. Of course, they had several employees to help them out. Here at Fedora's hat shop, there is one soul- and that is me. I do everything, even the sewing that was traditionally done by women the hatter employed. My trouble is, I don't trust anyone else to make my hats, and that includes the sewing. Believe me, I have had folks in my family that have tried to get me to let them help in making hats. And, I have tee'd them off because I refuse to do so. I am afraid, if you get a hat from Marc, or me, what you get was made by just one person, from start to finish. Now, that means nothing to most customers, but to me and Marc it is VERY important. How can you say you made the hat if someone else sewed in the sweat, the ribbon and the liner? You can't, and so we do our own sewing. And always will.

I reckon Marc and I are the only ones making the hats completely by hand. I say by hand, but I do use vintage hatmaking tools to do it. But they are hand tools, like tollikers, brim irons, etc. Of course, you can't produce large numbers of hats in short times doing it this way. So, I guess if you want a handmade Indy fedora, you just have to accept the fact that you have to wait. All I can say, is what you get is indeed one of a kind hat, because it is indeed handmade.

My trouble is, generally speaking, handmade hats would cost you even more than a machine made hat, and I refuse to charge the prices that handmade hats would fetch if someone else were doing them. Heck, I refuse to charge what most hatters charge-period. And because of that, I stay snowed under in orders.
Fedora

Every hat of yours I have (including the couple refurbs BAB (Before AdventureBilt) has been well worth the wait, my friend.

Every hat of yours I have (including the couple refurbs BAB (Before AdventureBilt) has been well worth the wait, my frien

Thanks Bink. I know that I would have waited back when I was buying hats, if for nothing else than just to say what I was wearing was rare. And handmade hats are very rare.

I am just as obsessed with details as I ever was, and that includes the block shape. I am still looking for perfection, and most folks would have just been satisfied and stopped long ago. Not me. This new look into the block shape that was prompted by David Garrison(who noticed a nuance I had missed) has added extra work, when I really did not have the time to devote to it. But, I just can't help myself in this area with block shapes. Since it is the most important part of nailing the Raiders fedora, a nuance here and there HAS to be used. I know most are satisfied with the blocks I have used and tweaked over the last 3 years, and I continue to use that block as it is good, and most like it. But, for my own sanity, I also have to have the exact blockshape in my stable, if for nothing else but for my own hats. I want to satisfy the customer and his perceptions of the block shape, but I want to satisfy myself as well in my own hats that I never have time to make. In fact, if Marc would have not sent me one of his hats, I would never get a new hat!!! Customers come first. And this just means I don't have the time to make myself a new hat. I have a moss green beaver body that I bought last fall, for myself, and I may get it made next year. Not sure yet. Fedora

Just to ask, and please pardon the pun, but what happened to the idea of putting a 'cap' on further orders until you can see light of day.

It's not like folks are going to disappear if they can't get an order in to you for a period of time.

Regards! Michaelson

Hey Fedora,

It was from reading posts like these that made me sure that buying a hat from you was probably the best decision I could make. It's the sincerity and genuine concern for a good look that makes your hats so desirable. It's not like going out and just buying a random hat, because you really care about the hat you're selling. You're the man!

STEVE

Michaelson wrote:Just to ask, and please pardon the pun, but what happened to the idea of putting a 'cap' on further orders until you can see light of day.

It's not like folks are going to disappear if they can't get an order in to you for a period of time.

Regards! Michaelson

It's better to be on a list , than not.

Just to ask, and please pardon the pun, but what happened to the idea of putting a 'cap' on further orders until you can see light of day.

Well, it would not really solve anything. If I just stopped taking orders today, it would not help turnaround times. The turnaround times have increased due to orders already taken. People with orders already placed will not be served by cutting off orders today.

As a side note, I feel better after I talked to a mutual friend of me and Art Fawcett's. It seems Art is in the same boat as me. He has sold 200 hats and makes one a day. And of course, John from Montana Hatters has an 8 month turnaround time on his hats, and Rand has a year. So the more I think about it, the more normal it is, in the custom hat market. I think it is just the nature of the beast. John said I needed to worry if I did not have turnaround times! I guess if I wanted decent turnarounds, I would need to get a hat factory to make the hats. But then Lee has trouble even with the factory made hats! I don't think there is an answer here. I think it is just the nature of the beast. But, I don't have to like it. So, I keep plugging along and hopefully the bang for the buck is worth the wait. Fedora

Hey Steve - how's my hat looking?

In Christ,
Shane

Hey Steve - how's my hat looking?

VP wrote:Hey Steve - how's my hat looking?

Uh, same here.

I just wanted to show off my new AB Rabbit that I got in the mail yesterday. I also wanted to thank Fedora for making me such a wonderful hat. It's a shame Fedora won't be offering these anymore. I really love it. I'm hooked now. If I want another Indy hat I guess I'm going to have to start saving my pennies up for an AB Beaver or AB Deluxe from Marc. I really can't see myself going back to buying another Aukbra after this. Having a hat custom made really does make a difference.

Thanks again Fedora!

The hat looks great! Enjoy it!

You are saying you just GOT THAT, Pit?!

It looks like it's been a friend for years! You wear it well....and Fedora makes a great hat to wear right out of the box!!

HIGH regards! Michaelson

Nice looking hat Pitfall!

Oh the torture of waiting for mine!! It only gets worse with seeing how great the rabbit ABs look!

Hey Harry, I'm seeing some taper there. Great looking hat.

Congratulations, it looks great Harry!

What are the dimensions and size?

- Mac

VP wrote:Hey Harry, I'm seeing some taper there. Great looking hat.

You know something, I can just vaguely see that myself, in the first pic.

Could just be the angle of the camera, or the way Harry's head is tilted, but it might not hurt if the dent on that side of the hat (right / non bow side) was a bit deeper and went just a bit further back at the top.

Awesome hat, no matter what! Glad to see you finally got it and I hope this means mine is on the way! The tweaking you've done so far looks excellent, Harry!

-GCR

Hey Harry, I'm seeing some taper there

Guys, it has to be the pic. That hat was as straight sided as a hat can get.

Also, I think he wanted by the river creases, or outside the temple creases. Now, that particular hat was not turned, was not creased down as low, front or back, and the front creases did not go back as far as the other hats. Fedora

Must have been the angle. The hat is fresh out of the box and the sides are straight as an arrow. The only tweaking I did was to the front pinch and the brim.

great hat and fit PH! that rabbit felt is just gorgeous stuff to tweak and bash with ain't it?

that's a good look sir!

I ordered the hat with a 5 1/2 crown. I ordered the brim with 2 1/2 on the sides and 2 7/8. So I'm assuming that's what Fedora did unless he ended up changing that because it wouldn't look right with my face shape. I really left that part in his hands. He is the MASTER!

Congratulations, looks great on you Harry! Another fine job by Steve!

Yes, Steve once again did a fantastic job I would love to own another AB down the road and have Steve style it.

I really love the color of the hat. Does anyone here know how much the AB Rabbit's color differs from the AB Beaver or Marc's AB Deluxe?

Pitfall Harry wrote:Yes, Steve once again did a fantastic job I would love to own another AB down the road and have Steve style it.

I really love the color of the hat. Does anyone here know how much the AB Rabbit's color differs from the AB Beaver or Marc's AB Deluxe?

I will know, once I get my AB rabbit (hopefully soon) and my AB Deluxe (also coming soon). Based on your pics, it doesn't look like the color of the rabbit differs all that much from the color of my Beaver felt AB. But as I said, I'll know for sure once all my hats arrive.

-GCR

GCR wrote:

Pitfall Harry wrote:Yes, Steve once again did a fantastic job I would love to own another AB down the road and have Steve style it.

I really love the color of the hat. Does anyone here know how much the AB Rabbit's color differs from the AB Beaver or Marc's AB Deluxe?

I will know, once I get my AB rabbit (hopefully soon) and my AB Deluxe (also coming soon). Based on your pics, it doesn't look like the color of the rabbit differs all that much from the color of my Beaver felt AB. But as I said, I'll know for sure once all my hats arrive.

-GCR

And as you know I eagerly await your comparisons.

Pitfall Harry wrote: And as you know I eagerly await your comparisons.

Ah yes, but not as eagerly as I await my hats!

-GCR

Here's a shot I did in all of my gear wearing the new AB Rabbit. The background is from Raiders. This hat is fantastic. I'm so glad I was able to get in on the deal when it came up last year.

Wow, what a great picture and what a beautiful hat

Yeah, even if that wasn't my hat, that is a great picture there!

These rabbit hats are harder to work with than beaver, but they seem to turn out nice. And the rabbit is the right fur as the film hat. Fedora

PH, that picture rocks buddy!

Thank you fellas!

Steve, I look forward to the day I can order a regular beaver AB from you. Hopefully next year. Until then I have this hat to wear the heck out of and enjoy.

I have to say though I've kind of developed a soft spot in my heart for rabbit felt after owning the Fed. Deluxe and now your Rabbit AB. It's a shame this hat is one of the last of it's kind.