Club Obi Wan

erri_wan wrote:We could even think to talk about DVD raiders accuracy and LD raiders accuracy personally i own a LaserDisk Raider screen accurate strap

Yeah, me too, but I got "light" grooves when I orderd from TAG. So they aren't the full depth that he normally would put on the strap. (which may actually be fairly accurate).

Buffelhead, have you found any scenes that you CAN'T see groves on the LD version? Maybe Feraud will post some non groove scenes that you can check on LD.

I agree it's perfectly possible that there were multiple straps and maybe only some of them had grooves.

First they use computers to remove any "unsuitable" elements from E.T. Now I am being shown they went and removed the straps from Indy's bag?

Q:Why is Indy's bag just floating there? A:The strap was causing too much controversy so they removed it.

I agree! A little levity is very necessary sometimes.

Bufflehead Jones, are you convinced with the groove theory? Are you telling me that on top of all this gear I have to now buy a laserdisk player?!

Well, like I said in the other 'groove' thread why would Noel Howard have added grooves to his replica straps if they were not on the originals? Or, point in fact, on at least SOME of the originals...

Bufflehead - no grooves on the stunt straps...? LMAO!

Regards

Al

Feraud wrote:First they use computers to remove any "unsuitable" elements from E.T. Now I am being shown they went and removed the straps from Indy's bag?

What gives?

These Hollywood types are making it hard for a fella to get screen accurate gear!

I think that just the digital cleaning process paradoxically erased some detalis smoothing them. I don't think they erased the grooves on purpose

Feraud wrote:I agree! A little levity is very necessary sometimes.

Bufflehead Jones, are you convinced with the groove theory? Are you telling me that on top of all this gear I have to now buy a laserdisk player?!

Yes, I am convinced. I have seen enough proof.

No. You can come by my house and I will cue up the dvd and the laser disc and pause them at the same spot and then you can switch back and forth with a push of a button to compare the two.

Bufflehead Jones wrote:No. You can come by my house and I will cue up the dvd and the laser disc and pause them at the same spot and then you can switch back and forth with a push of a button to compare the two.

o.k. I will bring the scepticism...I mean BEER!

You can come by my house and I will cue up the dvd and the laser disc and pause them at the same spot and then you can switch back and forth with a push of a button to compare the two.

Buff, you and I think alike here. I used to do that all the time, especially when I first got my dvd player years ago. I'd pop in a dvd, then the laser and then the vhs just to show people who hadn't yet gotten a dvd player what a difference in quality it really was. I'd do just like you said and pause them all at the same spot.

I too am completely convinced and I haven't yet had to deviate from the dvd and go to the laserdisc. I still have yet to do that, but I have no idea if my Sony Trinitron will be able to pick up what Buff is seeing on his high end digital tv. Mine is just a middle to upper-middle of the road tv. Nothing fancy, but not cheap. In any case, I'm still gunna dig even though I've seen enough to convince myself that I'm glad I never sold my two Noel Howard straps. I just want to convince the rest of the blind.

Okay, I haven't broken it out in awhile, but I've got a copy of the actual film and will try to run it through the projector this weekend. Getting captures will be near impossible, but I'll try to take some stills as its running through. If I "freeze frame" it actually gets blurry due to the way the projector is designed.

I'll let you know what I see and maybe there'll be some pics.

Mike

Hey Mike, I live in Seattle to. Well Redmond actually. Let me know if you can use any help and we should also get together sometime to talk gear. You don't know how to crack a whip do you?

floatinjoe wrote:Getting captures will be near impossible, but I'll try to take some stills as its running through. If I "freeze frame" it actually gets blurry due to the way the projector is designed.

I'll let you know what I see and maybe there'll be some pics.

Mike

Hey mike if you have actual film, you might be able to take it to a photography place and get some photos or scans done direct from the film? The print would be a neg but all you just have to do is invert it in photoshop.

agent5 wrote: ...I've seen enough to convince myself that I'm glad I never sold my two Noel Howard straps. I just want to convince the rest of the blind.

Maybe I have missed something here but I've always thought of my MBA/NH straps as being not grooved, but when I checked they actually did have grooves. The grooves however are not very deep or visible so that could explain why they are hard to see on film? Nevertheless, I dont see why NH should sell straps with grooves if the original ones didn't have them. "Hey, I feel groovy... Lets confuse some fans years from now!".
Na... I dont think so.

Cheers

This thread has given me a headache, I've watched Raiders now in slo-mo for about two hours, I see grooves, so there!

Don't Call Me Junior... if you ever want to get together to talk gear, just let me know, I'm always up for it. As for whip cracking, I've been cracking for almost a year now and I think I'm halfway decent at it. The person to learn from in this area is The_Edge. He lives up in the Bothel area.

Kt Templar... The film comes on reels containing 2000ft of film each. It would not be the easiest thing to get scanned. Buying a scanner is on my list of things to do and when I do, I'll probably be scanning some of it to try it out. However, there is no timeline on that.

Mike

floatinjoe wrote:
Kt Templar... The film comes on reels containing 2000ft of film each. It would not be the easiest thing to get scanned. Buying a scanner is on my list of things to do and when I do, I'll probably be scanning some of it to try it out. However, there is no timeline on that.

Mike

Yes. I hadn't thought of that! I used to hire out films and have to cart them to cinemas. They came in those metal cans about 9 reels to a film. Weigh a ton.

Regards,

That's why the future of movie presentation will be digital. The studios will just email the movie to the theaters or send them a disc. With that much film per print, one movie sent out to 2500 screens just in the US is a costly and daunting task.

Today while watching Raiders on my DVD version I noticed grooves on his strap when he is about to hand his gun over to Belloq in the beginning.

EDIT: By the way I also painstakingly and extensively used the THX optimizer in order to get my lighting and brightness and contrast correct on my PC.

Bufflehead Jones wrote:In any scenes that the bag strap was going to be some distance away from the camera and groove detail would not be visible, the film crews may have switched to a bag strap that did not have grooves in an effort to save production costs by trying to prevent the grooved hero strap from becoming damaged in an action scene. Yeah, that's the ticket!


...ummm...grooveless stunt straps?

Thanks, Bufflehead, now I can sleep at night...

Grooveless stunt straps...hehehehee....

J

There are grooves guys ive seen it, convert like i did, come to the dark side!

I have a laserdisc of Raiders on the way. When it arrives I'll try and do everything I can to post some shots from it. Until then I still believe there are grooves.

I guess the next question might be, grooves on all or some straps?...

Well, I ran the film through the projector and only ran the first reel. Took some pictures while he was in the temple, but the photos were picking up the texture of the screen and the images weren't that good. However, I have to say that I do see grooves in the temple scene. Like I said, I didn't run the whole film, but was happy with what I saw.

Mike

Good to know that two people have now confirmed grooves in the temple scene. I found them in the WOS scenes, Cairo, and the Map Room scenes. I'd have to say I'd go for the theory that the whole film had a bag strap with grooves and NONE without.
I didn't you'd get anything worth capturing from the reel, Floatinjoe, but I did think that you'd be able to spot them better by examining the actual film. Good stuff.

floatinjoe wrote:Well, I ran the film through the projector and only ran the first reel. Took some pictures while he was in the temple, but the photos were picking up the texture of the screen and the images weren't that good. However, I have to say that I do see grooves in the temple scene. Like I said, I didn't run the whole film, but was happy with what I saw.

Mike

Excelent! Now we have a 2nd (3rd?) media type that seems to show the grooves. More points for my DVD theory.

Colby wrote:Today while watching Raiders on my DVD version I noticed grooves on his strap when he is about to hand his gun over to Belloq in the beginning.

EDIT: By the way I also painstakingly and extensively used the THX optimizer in order to get my lighting and brightness and contrast correct on my PC.

Colby, do you have a blue filter? I never have used the THX optimizer, but I can't see how they could do anything useful without a blue filter. I always use Joe Kane's Video Essentials. It comes with the proper blue filter, by the way.

It had a blue filter but I had to have some sort of glasses to wear in order to make it correct. So I ended up skipping it.

Oh nevermind, it had two different blue filter tests. Just the one with the glasses was supposed to be more accurate. I adjusted it with the one it had. If you go to Set Up on the Raiders DVD it has Lucasfilm THX Optimizer.

I just got a new 42" HD Widescreen LCD rear projection today. (WoooHoo!) So of course I pop in Raiders. I'm watching and come to the "Don't step in to the light" scene at the begining. What do I see. Definite strap grooves. Clear as day. I take the DVD to my computer to see what I can see there. Not much more than any other shot I've posted. (though I can see them) They are not nearly as defined on my computer.

Maybe Buffelhead can answer this as he's a big AV buff. Why would they show up so clear on the TV and not the computer? Is it the sharpness of the LCD or just because it's so much bigger than my monitor? (19")

Here's the section if you want to look your self.

I was trying to look for grooves on the big screen at the Aero - I figured they'd be a foot wide, right? But it was just moving too fast, sorry. Couldn't see anything specific. So in motion, I couldn't tell if there was a groove or not. You guys might be able to, but I couldn't. (even w/ my Lasik'd Riddick eyes. )

IndyDoc, I hope you don't mind, but I borrowed your image to post in a jacket thread.

I bet someone will tell you "i can't see any grooves" it always happens

erri_wan wrote:I bet someone will tell you "i can't see any grooves" it always happens

Ok, I'll bite. I can't see the grooves. Honestly, I can something that might, just maybe be a groove. However, its not enough for me to say that I for sure see a groove.

What do I see. Definite strap grooves. Clear as day.

Bingo! Yes, you can definitely see them on the left side of the strap and on the top right. How anyone can not see them is my real question?

Actually i can't see them either but i still believe there are grooves. I've seen better pics in past anyway

This thread..................giving me headache............must.....fight....urge to.............kill..........

SkyChief wrote:IndyDoc, I hope you don't mind, but I borrowed your image to post in a jacket thread.

Yeah, I thought it was a good picture of the jacket as well. You've got a fairly big collar, it's got a decent shot of the color and texture of the leather, and you can see the lining.

Jerry, it does go by fairly quick, but I think I noticed them in this scene when I saw it on the big screen a few months ago.

Agent5, My real question (besides yours) is why do they show up so much better on my new TV than even a coputer monitor?

Agent5, My real question (besides yours) is why do they show up so much better on my new TV than even a coputer monitor?

That's a question for the expert, Buff. I get that too. CLEAR as day on my pc, but when I get a screen grab and post it it loses it's clarity. Why?

IndyDoc wrote: Agent5, My real question (besides yours) is why do they show up so much better on my new TV than even a coputer monitor?

Maybe you've got misaligned cathode guns. Degauss and the "grooves" might disappear! I have a crummy Mitsubishi monitor that shows 3 or 4 faint ghost images on every vertical line, degaussing only gets rid of it a bit. It's really annoying.

agent5, what happened to all your photos? I was going to move this to the archives, but without the additional photos for proof, there's no reason to now.

Regards! Michaelson

Might you be thinking of the laserdisc discusion that turned into a groove discussion? (can you combine threads?) I think there's more pictures in there too.

agent5 wrote:

Agent5, My real question (besides yours) is why do they show up so much better on my new TV than even a coputer monitor?

That's a question for the expert, Buff. I get that too. CLEAR as day on my pc, but when I get a screen grab and post it it loses it's clarity. Why?

Whoa! You guys are asking me computer questions. I don't know anything about computers. I am very computer challenged. I have to get Mrs. Bufflehead to help me post a pic on the forum. I don't have a clue as to how you guys even post a screen grab. So, you obviously know more about this than I do.

If you really want to get into my area of expertise, ask me how to drive a car around a curve fast.

Bufflehead Jones wrote:

agent5 wrote:

Agent5, My real question (besides yours) is why do they show up so much better on my new TV than even a coputer monitor?

That's a question for the expert, Buff. I get that too. CLEAR as day on my pc, but when I get a screen grab and post it it loses it's clarity. Why?

Whoa! You guys are asking me computer questions. I don't know anything about computers. I am very computer challenged. I have to get Mrs. Bufflehead to help me post a pic on the forum. I don't have a clue as to how you guys even post a screen grab. So, you obviously know more about this than I do.

If you really want to get into my area of expertise, ask me how to drive a car around a curve fast.

Well, I wasn't really. I was just wondering why I could see them much clearer on my new LCD TV than...well, I guess that does have to do with computers.

Maybe the decoder in the Home DVD player is just better than on the computer's video card.

IndyDoc wrote:Might you be thinking of the laserdisc discusion that turned into a groove discussion? (can you combine threads?) I think there's more pictures in there too.

No. Go to page one of this string. All his photos are gone.

Regards! Michaelson

D'OH!!! I took them all off the host site. I'll get them back again if you wanna catalog the thread.

Yes, I do. I think this thread also reinforces the other one, and should be saved.

Thanks!

Regards! Michaelson

Stay tuned for "How agent5 Got His Strap Grooves Back."

Darn! If only it had been Canyon you could have said 'How Stella Got Her Groove On'.

Ok, this should be the final ultimate shot. If these don't prove they exist nothing will short of seeing an original.

It'd when Indy takes a big swing at the big German mechanic.

Normal version and Embosed version, which picks up and excentuates edges, thus shows the grooves quite well.



And if those don't do you there's bigger versions here and here.

The best pic ever seen!!!

I doubt someone could say anything now!

erri_wan wrote:The best pic ever seen!!!

I doubt someone could say anything now!

anything?...

Is this myth 'busted', 'confirmed', or perhaps both?
We have a chance to ask the man himself. Ford will be attending a Learning Annex class this February in NYC. Maybe one of the locals who are enrolled can attend the class and ask him? I warn you to expect blank stares and possible security escort when asking a question like this..

I'll say it - 'anything'.

I see it in the embossed one, sure, but not in the original. In the original pic I just see normal distressing on the edges. In the embossed one it almost looks on the left side like what appears to be a groove before the edge is really the true edge and then the beginning of the shirt. On the right side, though, clearly it looks like what appears to be a groove within the bounds of the strap - but how could this come from the first pic where there is NO indication of anything for the embossing function to pick up?

Doc, was that emboss really done from that EXACT picture? Something seems missing in between...did you do some black/white conversions first?

Commence flaming insulting retorts insulting my intelligence and common sense - now.