Confirmation of Grooves (new pics 5/29)

[Ark Hunter]

After years of research in the field....uh no...actually thansk to Buffelhead and his LaserDisk player we have
1) for the not belivers, confirmed groves on the bag strap
2) confirmed my theroy of detail loss on DVDs compaired to LaserDisk

My original theroy thread. (see the last post of mine)
The "proof". (p2 see Bufflehead's post about his findings on the LD)

Oh, and if anyone has a LaserDisk player that is able to capture Raiders or screen shots of it that would help out to end the debate.

[Colby]

Now I have to get a laserdisc player and raiders copy for sure! Maybe I can find a player for cheap somewhere. I would have a laserdisc just to play Raiders on!

I'm obsessed with video quality!

(by the way my strap has grooves )

[Feraud]

hmmm. Let us not close this case just yet.

I still have not seen any proof that these grooves exist. This bag strap groove thing is starting to sound like wishful thinking to me. If the grooves are that hard to see, maybe they are not there? Screen caps have been enlarged, enhanced, circled, inverted, etc.
but the grooves are honestly non-existant. The best piece of proof is this?
[/quote]

While the idea that cleaning up the film to remove scratches, etc. makes sense, would this process really remove grooves from a bag strap? Would it also remove other lines it thought un-necessary? Facial lines, shirt patterns, etc.? Have any filmmakers realized this and allow it?
It sounds like the cleaning process is going beyond its intended function.

Can Bufflehead J- freeze the frame at a particular scene and take a digital picture from the laserdisk?

I am sitting at my computer watching Raiders right now. I will be honest, it does not looks like Indy's bag strap has grooves. In fact, there is one scene as Indy is about to snatch the idol that looks like a groove is running down the middle of his strap! As he turns his bag to remove the sandbag, the line rises and I see it is more a smudge or smear. Not a groove. Could this mean the dvd cleaning process has removes actual grooves in a strap and left a smudge on the same strap? I do not see the logic in it.

I am sorry I cannot do screen caps because there are many more pictures of his strap without the grooves than with. I think shadows are being cast in certain scenes to produce this groove effect.

If this strap theory is going to fly, some better proof needs to surface.

[Ark Hunter]

Sorry, but Bufflehead doesn't have a way to do screen captures from the LD.
Belloq might at some point, but may not get to doing it. (needs to buy a DVD recorder or something)

So basicly untill some one with access to a LD copy and a computer to capture it is found, what is in the "proof" thread is the best screens there are. (check agent5s "it had to be snakes" capture. There's gooves on top and bottom in that shot)

I'm willing to take Buffleheads word on what he saw on the LD as they seem to be there on the DVD. (just not really clear)

Oh, here's something else.

See the grooves? No? Just slightly? They are there. They aren't deep but they are there. Pagey pointed this out on a photo of himself with a new strap he had with full grooves.

[Dre]

well in all honesty i can see the grooves much better than i can in any of the movies (in other words: i can see grooves in that picture and none at all in the movies =P)

I have no idea where the buisness of bag strap grooves came from in the first place? perhaps this is like that finding of canals on mars that everyone beleived and 'saw' but in actual fact there were none!

[Indiana Jerry]

I'm willing to believe there were grooves, in some, or all of the straps. And that 25 years of picture quality loss hide them, be it from all shots or just the few in which a grooved strap was used. Face it, the bag strap wasn't exactly getting DeMille closeups. It was just a piece of costume.

Personally, I don't like the grooves. Bleah. But I'm willing to believe they were there.

But you probably don't want to count me on your side anyway, because I also believe they were reusing old rifle slings.

J

P.S. The old rifle slings I pick up tend to have grooves. Some appear not to, but they are just more distressed than the others from what I can tell, so the grooves appear to have been beaten out.

MAYBE THAT'S WHY THESE ARE HARD TO SEE, EH? Got some lackluster shallow grooves, or discontiguous grooves on a well-used (or more likely, well-distressed) strap of some sort. More of a now-you-see-it-now-you-don't-groove.

But I don't want to spoil your fun, if ya'll couldn't polarize yourselves into a yes-groove or no-groove camp. So I'll sit here in the middle by myself...with my semi-grooved beaten-in straps...

[Shawnkara]

I've never seen the grooves, either. It doesn't mean they can't be there, I just don't see them. And I don't think it's really been proven either way. IF that strap was really a converted rifle sling, I would bet on grooves. Slings almost always have them, or some type of decorative tooling. But a note on that, I've never in my life seen a rifle sling long enough to go all the way around the torso like that, AND double back to the buckle.I think what's really important is, if these grooves are SO HARD TO SEE, who cares? I'm pretty darn hard-core with accuracy, but geez. I'm sure there all sorts of things in any costume, details, so minute that only a few people will ever see it. And usually it's by chance, something catches your eye (or you think it does) and then you obsess over consiously looking for it. For me "screen accurate" contains one word most people overlook. "SCREEN". I don't care how a costume looks in person. All that counts is what's ON THE SCREEN. If you found out that Indy's jacket was actually red and by some freak accident it turned brown on film, would you want a RED jacket? NO. You want what's on the screen. When it's on the SCREEN it's our heroe's costume. When it's not it's just a pile of rags. A good rule of thumb ib this "accuracy" thing that I've learned the hard way over the years...... if you can't see it don't sweat it!

[ob1al]

My old NH bag strap had grooves.

Now, this doesn't prove anything much at all except to say that NH was adding the grooves to the straps he sold as Indy bagstraps. I can't imagine that he would ADD the grooves if they were not on the original prop, it would just be more work on his part so why do it? Much more likely would be to get rid of the grooves as its easier and quicker to produce a flat strap.

I know, I know...all just theory and assumption. Still, its not a big deal at the end of the day as 99.9% of people would never notice anyway, and even the tiny minority of people who would notice such a thing have no clear answer on the subject...so what I think is, its probably just a matter of personal choice.

At least, until we have proof positive either way on the 'groove debate' (hey, that sounds like it should be some 60's pop show )

Regards

Al

[Erri]

You're right guys. Also in my pics i rarely can see the grooves and whenever you can see them they are rarely clear.
I would definitely think that the original strap have grooves. Anyway isnt there any original bag with strap in some museum like the Smithsonian where the hat and the jacket are?

[Shawnkara]

Sadly, Erri, very little of the costumes exist from "Raiders" today. The Smithsonian stuff is from LC. Noel Howard has quite a bit of an Indy costume worn by Ford, but it's all from ToD. A couple of years ago Seregi located an actual screen-used 'Raiders' whip that used to belong to Terry Leonard, and there's the alleged 'Raiders' stunt jacket from about four years ago. I don't believe any other actual pieces of the 'Raiders' gear still exists.

[Erri]

Aww what a shame. What happened to them? INCINERATED?

[ob1al]

Sadly, Erri, very little of the costumes exist from "Raiders" today. The Smithsonian stuff is from LC. Noel Howard has quite a bit of an Indy costume worn by Ford, but it's all from ToD. A couple of years ago Seregi located an actual screen-used 'Raiders' whip that used to belong to Terry Leonard, and there's the alleged 'Raiders' stunt jacket from about four years ago. I don't believe any other actual pieces of the 'Raiders' gear still exists.

I believe that a number of jackets, hats and so on are stored in the Lucasfilm archives, but they are most likely from TofD or LC rather than Raiders. Apparantly, there were a number of stunt hats all just piled up together, but Ford's 'hero' lid was safely stored away eleswhere.

The chap I read this from never mentioned any bagstraps, but I wouldn't be suprised is there were a few of those in the archives too. Probably NOT Raiders though unfortunately.

[Last Crusader]

I suggest to wait for the Indy HDTV-DVD collection. I´m sure we can see what we wanna see then: That the strap has grooves...no grooves...maybe grooves...

[ob1al]

We might be in for a long wait...

But yeah, it'll be a boon to the detail obsessed to have the movies in such great clarity.

The problem is, once we know everything there will be nothing left to talk about!

Cheers

Al

[Feraud]

The fun part is everyone doing research for the benefit of Geardom!
I look forward to seeing how this plays out.

I have seen Agent5's screen cap. It looks really good in favor of a strap with grooves. However, I think that is the only screencap I have seen that proves "for" the grooved strap....
A question-
Was his(Agent5) screencap from a DVD, VHS or Laserdisk? My worry is that we will discount DVD's in favor of Laserdisks, unless a dvd screencap shows what we want to see. I think we need to establish what is or is not acceptable in terms of visual proof.

While watching Raiders last night I made it a point of looking at that strap. I saw many scenes that show a strap without grooves.
Another question I need to ask is, does one screencap with grooves supercede the other half dozen images of the strap without? We all accept as fact the idea that there were slightly different jackets made for the film. Could this be the case with the strap? A broken strap or misplaced bag?

Just a word on rifle straps. Are we assuming that all rifle straps have grooves? I then need to check what I have at home because I am sure there are some without grooves.

I am sorry I cannot do screencaps. There are many images where it appears plain as day the strap is smooth, with areas of apparent distressing.

[Floribama Steve]

IF that strap was really a converted rifle sling, I would bet on grooves. Slings almost always have them, or some type of decorative tooling. But a note on that, I've never in my life seen a rifle sling long enough to go all the way around the torso like that, AND double back to the buckle.

Soldier's big and tall shop?

[Ark Hunter]

My old NH bag strap had grooves.

Now, this doesn't prove anything much at all except to say that NH was adding the grooves to the straps he sold as Indy bagstraps. I can't imagine that he would ADD the grooves if they were not on the original prop, it would just be more work on his part so why do it? Much more likely would be to get rid of the grooves as its easier and quicker to produce a flat strap.

Regards
Al

Dre: Above is your answer to why there is a debate in the first place. Some gear makers put them on on their replicas. People who might actually have known wether they were on the original or not.
As for my posted picture above, I think they are just as visible in Agent5s capture of "why did it have to be snakes" in the other thread on LD vs. DVD. The one I captured and marked is pretty distinct also but not as crisp as Agent5s shot. Would you have thought it had any if I hadn't said it did?

I know, I know...all just theory and assumption. Still, its not a big deal at the end of the day as 99.9% of people would never notice anyway, and even the tiny minority of people who would notice such a thing have no clear answer on the subject...so what I think is, its probably just a matter of personal choice.

There's a lot of small details on other gear that 99% of people wouldn't notice was missing or wrong, but we still strive to get that stuff right. (whip handle knots, Jacket details, pants pleats, pockets, etc.)

Shawnkara: I guess screen accurate also depends what screen you watch it on and what is sent to that screen. That's why I started the LD vs. DVD detail thread (which then turned into a groove hunt).

Oh, and I may have jumped the gun on "proof" as it was proof to me, but it seems there are still many that don't see it. (just wish we could get some captures from the LD now)

[ob1al]

There's a lot of small details on other gear that 99% of people wouldn't notice was missing or wrong, but we still strive to get that stuff right. (whip handle knots, Jacket details, pants pleats, pockets, etc.)

Yes that's true.

In fact, no one is more detail obsessed then I am, particularly with my props. I am at times obsessively obsessed in fact!

Each tiny detail is nothing on its own, but the sum of all the small details equals accuracy. Its the detail that defines "the look".

However, where there is a detail which is undefined or currently open to interpretation, like the groove on the bag strap, I think it ultimately becomes a matter of personal choice until we have proof one way or another that the strap had grooves on it.

In the fullness of time and with continued discussion, it may transpire that some straps had the grooves and others did not! Who knows? Even if it is proved that the strap had grooves in one particular scene, it does not neccessarily mean ALL the straps had!

Man, the more I think about this, I realise there is enough in this small detail alone to keep us talking about this for years!

Cheers,

Al

[Feraud]

In the fullness of time and with continued discussion, it may transpire that some straps had the grooves and others did not! Who knows? Even if it is proved that the strap had grooves in one particular scene, it does not neccessarily mean ALL the straps had!

Excellent point. That is what makes these discussions so great! It is the hard work of the fans that bring about an accurate production of the gear.

[Indiana Jerry]

IF that strap was really a converted rifle sling, I would bet on grooves. Slings almost always have them, or some type of decorative tooling. But a note on that, I've never in my life seen a rifle sling long enough to go all the way around the torso like that, AND double back to the buckle.

Soldier's big and tall shop?

Depends on your size, really. I'm 5'8"/9" and fit, and the 55" HK rifle strap works on me. Not certain if I have a 'short torso' or not...gee, no one's ever made such a comment before... I'm not sure what I'd do w/ 65"...maybe wear the buckle on my shoulder.

Still keeping an eye out for even LONGER straps, but the nice thing about the CETME/HK strap is all the hardware on it looks about right.

J

P.S. Every once in a while I get an HK strap which seems to be 4" to 6" LONGER. I send them off to taller folk than myself.

[ob1al]

Jerry, when you say the hardware looks right does that include the buckle mate?

[Indiana Jerry]

Jerry, when you say the hardware looks right does that include the buckle mate?

Yup. The only hardware you really see when wearing it is the buckly, mind you. It isn't exactly what TAG and others have reproduced, but reminiscent in shape and size. Some of my pics make it look more rectangular due to the angle I took them at. It is not perfectly square, but it's nearly square.

The terminating end doesn't have a chicago screw, it's double-ended bolt post (somebody pipe in w/ the real name for it if you know it). But it's a nit detail you'd have to look for.

The 'quick clip' can be easily removed, and I keep going to do it...but gosh, I like it, and it gives another inch on the hanging length. I do like being able to remove the strap in a hurry sometimes...like when I get myself stuck on a turret gun...rats, not again!

Point is, it doesn't have anything else odd that would stand out...like belt buckle adjust holes, other straps, oddities...etc. In view of that, it almost looks like it could be it. Aside from the fact that it is not 65", like the reference information that's been posted.

And the reason I brought it up here, is that the less distressed ones (which still have a finish) have grooves. But it's hard to see that even in the pics I posted, so it's easy to believe we can't see grooves that were there in screen caps - if they are very minor grooves.

There's pics throughout this thread, including a recent pic w/ a MKVII at the bottom:
viewtopic.php?t=9981&highlight=possibly+bag+strap

[Ark Hunter]

Man those ARE hard to see, even as close as you took the pictures of the groups of straps. After quick review I'd say 3 out of 5 have groves of some sort. (in the last big group shot)

Re: Double-ended bolt post
Maybe all-thread with nuts on each end? That's what your discrption makes me think of, but I don't see any of that in your pictures.

[Indiana Jerry]

Man those ARE hard to see, even as close as you took the pictures of the groups of straps. After quick review I'd say 3 out of 5 have groves of some sort. (in the last big group shot)

You're right, it was basically 3 out of 5 in that pic. The ones w/ more finish on them still showed grooves in some areas - like it was pressed in, and maintained by the finish, but by the time the wear and tear beat them up, the grooves were gone, either raised back up or eroded through from the edges.

Re: Double-ended bolt post
Maybe all-thread with nuts on each end? That's what your discrption makes me think of, but I don't see any of that in your pictures.

Yeah, I really screwed up that description. If my cam weren't busted, I'd post a pic tonight. No, it's more like this - a SINGLE piece of metal - a bar in the middle (the post), with a flat disk at one end (maybe a half inch across) and a post head on the other end - like the rounded head of a screw - but with no slot in it. Maybe like a big angry looking piercing stud.

[Bufflehead Jones]

Is it all that important if we find out if the strap had grooves or did not have grooves? No. But, I do find this discussion interesting.

I have said this before, but I will reiterate. We can't just say that laser disc was more detailed than dvd.

As far as I know, the laser disc was never restored. The dvd was. In some instances, I found the laser disc had much more detail. In others, the dvd had more detail. I find this interesting.

As far as the grooves on laser disc, it simply depends on how close the strap got to the camera. When it got close enough, there were very visable grooves. When I checked these same scenes on the dvd, I could not see the grooves or they were there but so faint that I really could not be sure. Of course, the dvd with the really faint grooves is what everyone here is posting screen caps from.

But, how does one explain that the grooves on the strap could be so obvious on laser disc, but when I looked for the R2D2 and C3PO on the column in the Well of Souls scene, which I knew were there, I could not see them at all on the laser disc. I can see them very clearly on the dvd. It just doesn't make much sense.

Since I can't post screencaps of the laser disc, I guess I will just have to invite all the gearheads over to the Bufflehead Palace for a mini summit, so we can all watch Raiders on laser disc and everyone can get a chance to see the grooves. As a matter of fact, I have already located a copy of Madonna's "Get into the Groove" so that I can have it on repeat play while we are waiting for the movie to begin.

[Ark Hunter]

Since I can't post screencaps of the laser disc, I guess I will just have to invite all the gearheads over to the Bufflehead Palace for a mini summit, so we can all watch Raiders on laser disc and everyone can get a chance to see the grooves. As a matter of fact, I have already located a copy of Madonna's "Get into the Groove" so that I can have it on repeat play while we are waiting for the movie to begin.

Woohoo! Mini-summit!

Madona:

[cokewithvanilla]

for those of you thinking of laserdisc players and raiders discs... try ebay, I just looked... raiders disc is about 2 dollars... and a player is like $25... if you want it, that isn't a bad price

[Glurrk]

As a matter of fact, I have already located a copy of Madonna's "Get into the Groove" so that I can have it on repeat play while we are waiting for the movie to begin.

Bufflehead, I also recommend King Floyd's "Groove Me" tune!

Come on, and groove me, baby.
I need you to groove me. <-------- with lyrics like that, you can't miss!

[Bufflehead Jones]

Hey Glurrk,

That's groovy man, groovy.

[Indiana Jerry]

It's a groovy kind of love.

This is worth leaving my children behind for. Okay, maybe not, but I appreciate the blanket invitation just the same, Buff. Send my share of the popcorn to Michaelson, I think he needs it.

[Ark Hunter]

for those of you thinking of laserdisc players and raiders discs... try ebay, I just looked... raiders disc is about 2 dollars... and a player is like $25... if you want it, that isn't a bad price

Yeah, not too bad. I was thinking the disk was going to be much more expensive as Michalson found one in a "junk" store for $30-50 (can remember exactly) but it it was more than the rest of the disks there.

[agent5]

This one's for Belloq!!! Took me all of 15 minutes.

[Feraud]

This one's for Belloq!!!

Those are the laserdisk caps?

Thanks.

[GrailHunter]

OK, so I see grooves there

[Feraud]

ugh. I must be going 'strap happy'!

Out of the six pictures posted, the final picture from the Well of Souls opening is very good in favor of a groove.

The others look to be either blurry(open to interpretation) or a shadow resulting from light hitting the edge strap and creating that 1/8th(?) inch shadow on the face edge of the strap.

hmm, this is a tough nut to crack.

[agent5]

Feraud. How is this tough at all?

Picture 1. You can see the side of the strap in white and below that, runnning all the way down the top side of the strap is a groove. You can even see the bottom groove and both top and bottom grooves are pronounced best where the bag sits on the rings.

Picture 2. This shot is taken at an angle where you will not be able to see the side of the strap and you can see (plain as day I might add) the groove extending all the way along the edge of the strap.

Picture 3. Although quite blurry, you can make out the groove on the bottom around the buckle. The groove extends several inches below the buckle too.

Picture 4. C'mon, guys. Really. You can see grooves in white on the top and all along the bottom of the strap here. The grooves are filled with dirt or fullers earth. Same thing happens to my strap. Can't you see the bloody lines? Look on the top right below his armpit.

Picture 5. I can see a groove line al the way across the top and you can plainly see it;s off the edge and NOT the edge. I can also make out the bottom groove most of the way across, most pronounced on the right side of the bottom of the strap.

Picture 6. You can see grooves on the bottom, closest to the left side and unmistakeably can see it also on the top, right under his button.


What else do you want? It's there. The grooves are there. They aren't just knife marks or distressing marks, you can see they are uniform and run all the way up and down the whole strap. I even found a couple more frames where they are evident if you know what to look for, but I didn't think they were strong enough evidence for this crowd, which I appreciate. Still, I think this is evidence enough.
I'll soon start looking through the dvd extras whihc probably won't turn up much since they used such @#$% film to document it. It should just make it that much harder to spot them.
All the caps above were taken from the dvd's, by the way.

[Feraud]

Feraud. How is this tough at all?

This is certainly not tough, however I can hardly say it is clear! I said more than one time that picture #6 is very good in favor of a groove.
However, other pictures are seriously open enough to interpretation to not 'close the case'. I cannot now break down each picture but there is extreme motion, blurring, light reflecting, etc. to look at the photo and say, "there it definitely is!"

I am engaging in this because most of the pictures posted do not represent clear proof of the strap. I think there can be posted just as many photos that show the strap as smooth! Sadly, I do not have screen cap capability...

What occurs to me is this: How many pictures constitutes proof? One good clip in the whole movie? Or five blurry images against one or two sharp 'non-grooved' pictures? I have seen a lot of clips on the dvd in freeze frame where I do not see the grooves. How do we rationalize it?

I think it is very possible that there are both smooth and grooved straps in the film.

The recent conversations seem headed in the 'Indiana Jones' bag strap has been confirmed with grooves' direction. I feel some reactions are the result of having been told, "there it is, do you see it?" Group consensus is not always based on "proof".

I am not playing 'devil's advocate, nor do I not feel it is necessary to be for or against in this situation. I do not profit either way! I am just looking for the truth.

[Kt Templar]

We may be barking up the wrong tree.

There may just not be enough resolution in the DVD or LD shots to be conclusive. Hard contrasty edges can create parallel artifacts next to them that look like grooves.

Does anyone have any publicity glossies that show the groves? A good 10 x 8“ head and shoulders shot might be able to put this to bed.

If there are grooves I can‘t believe all those TOD rope bridge shots don‘t show it.

By the way I think the 1st image is pretty darn close to proving the grooves myself.

[Feraud]

I agree KT Templar. A good still photograph might show it. Personally, the last picture looks good to me. Ford is basically laying there. He is not swinging, punching, or climbing. Looking at that scene(pic#6) in Raiders also makes a pretty good case for the groove. They could have used both versions of the strap in the film!

TOD could have used another bag/strap combination.

[Illinois Troy]

Hello everyone, and great discussion...

I have to admit catching these groove lines is pretty difficult, so I followed up Agent5's earlier post and picked up PowerDvD to watch the film.

Wow, big difference, IMO, I could really slow up the movie frames and get a clear look at some of these strap close-ups. IMO, the grooves are there, most noticable during the "Asps, very dangerous" part. The lighting effects for lightening really bring them out. Funny, I also noticed the word "Large" on Harrisons Wells Lamonts while moving frame by frame.

Also, I caught the grooves on Indy's belt while doing this in the "Streets of Cairo" scenes. Just as he pulls out his whip after throwing Marion on the cart.

At any rate, while this isn't a plug for the PowerDVD program (the retail is around 50 bucks ) it sure helped. You can download a free trial version that can serve this purpose as well. I also noticed a color difference (better color) while using this program as opposed to the interactual player that comes with the movie.

Illinois Troy

[Floribama Steve]

A program for DVD playback (Media Player Classic is it's name) that works pretty well is included with the "K-Lite Codec Pack". You can find it on Google. Very easy to use.

[Ark Hunter]

I am engaging in this because most of the pictures posted do not represent clear proof of the strap.

What?! Now you can't see the strap at all!? Sorry, just had to jab you there.

I have seen a lot of clips on the dvd in freeze frame where I do not see the grooves. How do we rationalize it?

I see the rationalization to that to be that 1) those shots are generally farther away and you have to be pretty close to see the grooves 2) the grooves seem pretty shallow, thus hard to see in all lighting conditions and 3) back to my theory (confirmed by one person at least) about the loss of that "unimportaint" detail during the DVD clean up and mastering. I'm just guessing, but I'd say it's kind of like a "video photoshop" where they run a frame through a series of automatic "filters". One being "dust and scratches", to remove hmm...dust and scratches from the film. A very small scratch on the film would be at least as big and probably bigger than the grooves on that strap in most cases. I doubt they do all the frames by hand, but some probably require hands on fixing.

[Ark Hunter]

Does any one have an original of this Lobby Card of the idol grab?

Looks kind of grooved even from that small picture of it.

[Don't Call Me Junior]

I'll soon start looking through the dvd extras whihc probably won't turn up much since they used such @#$% film to document it. It should just make it that much harder to spot them.

I looked through the bonus disc on my search as well. I didn't come up with much but it looks like you have much better equipment than I do. There is a close up of a strap Terry Lennord (i think that's his name) wore in the "Stunts of Indiana Jones" featurette that might have something. I also suggested previously taking a look at the Raiders trailers because they haven't been "restored" andlook like they might have a couple of shots.

[Indiana Jerry]

That's a good point, ^Jr...I'm guessing you're right, but maybe somebody here knows if they digitally restored the trailers, too. I can't imagine they would...hmm...

[Feraud]

You can download a free trial version that can serve this purpose as well.

Thanks for the info. I will download the trial version.

I need to contribute something other than shooting off my mouth!

[Bufflehead Jones]

Everybody is still comparing screen shots from the dvd. I compared the exact same scene from the dvd with the laser disc. On the dvd the grooves were faint, if visible at all. The same scene on laser disc, the grooves were very noticeable. The specific scene that I am referring to is when Indy comes into the tent and finds out that Marion is still alive.

There is a very good closeup of a good length of the strap. That scene has had a screen shot from the dvd posted here and you can see that it is fairly faint. Not so on the laser disc.

Maybe we can placate those groove non believers and allow them to think of their straps as screen accurate with this stipulation. In any scenes where the bag strap was going to be close to the camera, the film crew used a strap with grooves.

In any scenes that the bag strap was going to be some distance away from the camera and groove detail would not be visible, the film crews may have switched to a bag strap that did not have grooves in an effort to save production costs by trying to prevent the grooved hero strap from becoming damaged in an action scene. Yeah, that's the ticket!


...ummm...grooveless stunt straps?

[Erri]

We could even think to talk about DVD raiders accuracy and LD raiders accuracy personally i own a LaserDisk Raider screen accurate strap

[Feraud]

First they use computers to remove any "unsuitable" elements from E.T. Now I am being shown they went and removed the straps from Indy's bag?

What gives?

These Hollywood types are making it hard for a fella to get screen accurate gear!

[Bufflehead Jones]

The last part of my previous post was one of those times when I got bored with being serious and could no longer control myself. I have seen enough to be absolutely convinced that the strap had grooves.

I do not think that they had some grooved and some non-grooved straps. It just depends on how close the camera gets to the strap as to how well you can see the grooves, if you can see them at all.

Suits me just fine, as I personally feel that the strap looks better and more finished with the grooves. To be quite honest, I am not real sure if the two straps of mine have the grooves. I think they do. I never really paid that much attention to it. I guess I will have to go look to be sure.