The Toxic Avenger meets the Mk VII

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:16 pm

Disclaimer 1: this thread is in no way intended to start a new war regarding how board members treat their personal belongings. Just an experience and some deductions drawn from it. That's all.

Disclaimer 2: Author has been messing with some pretty harsh chemicals in order to be able to bring y'all this report. Harsh chemicals are, well, harsh towards both fabric and the human organism. Things worked out pretty well for author - this is no guarantee whatsoever that everybody else's Mk VII bags will respond well to the following...

Here goes:

After the somewhat heated discussion about the infamous black stripe, I decided to lay my Mk VII on the altar of science. In other words, I was going to put the bag through a chemical ordeal. My experience with military equipment is that the stuff is indeed built to last, and these kind of pieces of equipment are virtually indestructible (condition of individual bags may vary).
For the occasion, i donned - and this is highly recommended, if not mandatory - protective neoprene gloves, respiratory protection and lab goggles.
In first experiment, 29% hydrogen peroxide was administered. (Hydrogen peroxide is a strong oxidizer which is found in drug stores, usually a lot more diluted - maybe 3%. The stuff is very harmful if digested and may also, in certain conditions, destabilize and become volatile. WARNING) The results were highly disappointing - no change in bag or stripe color. I remember that I tried to bleach and redye a Swedish Army field shirt once, the outcome being similar - fabric color wouldn't budge.
In my second test, I used common household Chlorine (sodium hypochlorite, a strongly reactive chemical which forms a highly hazardous gas - PLEASE do not mess with it without taking every possible safety precaution! Chlorine gas was used in the trenches of WWI - the poisonous qualities can't be stressed enough!) and applied the liquid, with extreme prejudice on striped area only - the chlorine WILL bleach the fabric, rest assured... before the experiment, I've noticed that the black stripe had a "rubbery" texture and consisted of a fairly thick layer of paint. The reaction when chlorine was administered was... interesting. The stripe started to hiss and bubble, and smoke rose out of it. I let the reaction continue for some seconds and started brushing the stripe with a nail brush. The black paint came off in heaps! I brushed, showered off the excess black paint which by this time was running off the bag, and repeated chlorine application. When paint had dissolved from a particular area, the hissing stopped. Then, I moved to work on another patch of the stripe... and eventually, the brush broke, it's handle dissolved by the toxic goo.

WARNING - chlorine may react violently when in contact with metal - the bottom vents of the bag are indeed exposed to the chemical.

After the bag had dryed, the stripe was notably thinner and virtually gone in the brush-treated areas. However, because of the bleaching of the bag fabric surrounding the strip - no, one can't really avoid it - I will have to put the bag in bleach to even it out, then redye whole bag.

That's it. Again, it worked for ME. I DO NOT recommend this treatment to anyone, nor do I take any kind of responsibility for any such action by another person. I do not encourage messing with hazardous chemical substances. Being an adult, I took responsibility for my actions and was fully aware of the fact that by doing this, I might ruin my own health and/or risk the destruction of my Mk VII.

/SJ

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:22 pm

Wow. The sacrifices made for science.

Did anyone ever think of trying paint thinner???

I am worried about you, Scandinavia Jones you're using WMDs to clean your bag. Be careful!

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:55 pm

Did anyone ever think of trying paint thinner???

Uhh, yeah. Sorry, forgot about the thinner - let's just call it Experiment 1b. The results were quite insignificant.

I am worried about you, Scandinavia Jones you're using WMDs to clean your bag. Be careful!

Thank you for your concern, HJ - yes, I was very careful. Didn't see the need to call Hans Blix though, even if he probably lives less than an hour from my place...

-Sergeant-Majooor!
-Yessah!
-My good man - anything to report regarding yesterday's gas attack?
-Sah! The respirator did it's thing against that blasted chlorine gas, the problem was the dissolving mask bag, Sah!

Or maybe not...

/SJ

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:15 pm

Very cool! Is it safe enough to ask for some pics?

*Garvar värdigt vidare och beundrar modet*

Regards,
Swindiana

skbellis · Post by **skbellis** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:46 pm

Perhaps this may sound odd, but after reading about Scandanavia Jones' experiements I had a bit of a revelation regarding the infamous black stripe. While I am relatively new to the Indiana Jones scene, I am a somewhat experienced collector of militaria.
Here is my theory. The black stripe is actually some type of chemical detecion device. The British and other allies issued a gas brassard for D-Day that was supposed to change colours if gas was present. I am beginning to wonder if the stripe wasn't some type of early gas detection chemical applied to these bags and over the years it has sort of degraded and turned black. These bags were out of service by the time of D-day. Like I said this is only a theory that hit me when I read of Scandanavia Jones success with the chlorine.

--Scott

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:44 pm

I had success removing my black stripe (well actually, fading it out so much that it might as well not be there) using repeated applications of goof-off. I had the bag in the sink and would apply the goof-off, brush it wish a plastic brush, then rinse it out. After 4-5 treatments most of the black ink had washed away. the area around the stripe was slightly lighter than the rest of the bag, but I attribute this to the scouring of the brush as much as the chemical itself. It turned out looking pretty good.

IndianaJames · Post by **IndianaJames** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:10 pm

Heres my story. Bleach, bleaches everything. Hmm I thought, just put the bag in some bleach for a few hours, the bag will be white, but the stripe will be gone. Here are the results.

SWINDIANA DO NOT LOOK!!

The bag basically disintegrated. And see what is still staring me in the face, the black stripe. I curse you!!

Neolithic · Post by **Neolithic** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:19 pm

Scandinavia, got any pics?
Hey James, get some Sankara stones, burn the bag a little on the edges and you've got a 'sort-of-cool' display thingo to display them with... well maybe...

Jordan · Post by **Jordan** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:31 pm

IndianaJames wrote:Heres my story. Bleach, bleaches everything. Hmm I thought, just put the bag in some bleach for a few hours, the bag will be white, but the stripe will be gone. Here are the results.

SWINDIANA DO NOT LOOK!!

The bag basically disintegrated. And see what is still staring me in the face, the black stripe. I curse you!!

Dang James, you got rid of everything BUT the black stripe on that bag!

Guess that rules bleech out...

Before hand, I scrubbed the heck out of the black stripe with Goof Off/Opps and made it a bit lighter...Then I dyed it with green Rit...The results were pretty good...You can still make out the stripe, but it does not stick out like a sore thumb like it did before I tried this...

IndianaJames · Post by **IndianaJames** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:40 pm

The canvas just falls apart in your hands now....

But at least all the hardware is intact, if I ever need it an extra O ring, drain hole, or side disc.

Indy J

Farnham54 · Post by **Farnham54** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:08 am

What about soaking the thing in Gasoline for a few days?

Gas takes off all sorts of nasties, even things that are stuck on for decades. You will want to wash it VERY VERY VERY Well after this kind of treatment...Heck, it is gasoline we are talking about here: BE CAREFUL.

As per the Chlorine Gas detector theory, thats a very interesting idea. It could be a detector of some kind, though I thought I read somewhere that the stripe was for training to identify different teams. I could be mistaken, however.

Regards,

Farn

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:11 am

Scandinavia, got any pics?

I will post some before/after pics when I'm done - work is impaired by the fact that brush-handles dissolve after a few minutes scrubbing... besides, I do not want to expose myself to that toxic mess on a daily basis, even though it might give me super powers... just ain't worth taking the risk.

Heres my story. Bleach, bleaches everything. Hmm I thought, just put the bag in some bleach for a few hours, the bag will be white, but the stripe will be gone. Here are the results.

SWINDIANA DO NOT LOOK!!

The bag basically disintegrated. And see what is still staring me in the face, the black stripe. I curse you!!

Ouch. You have my sympathies, IJ. I feared something like this might happen when I began to mess around... this is exactly why I do not recommend anyone to try this at home. Shows that the use of chemicals is not to be taken lightly.

/SJ

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:37 am

Well, look on the bright side.

You can re-enact the bridge scene in Temple of Doom.

That bag looks like it had the Sankara stones burn their way out of it.

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:15 am

skbellis wrote: Here is my theory. The black stripe is actually some type of chemical detecion device.
--Scott

Very interesting I must say. All sources I've heard from that has something to tell say that the stripe was simply there to divide the men in teams, but it has never seemed definite to me. I haven't heard anything about gas detection devices worn by the men except for the brassards used on D-day later on in the war. All sources seem to say that this was the first time:

http://www.mpmuseum.org/provostgas.html

On the other hand, I know that gas detection paint was used on vehicles earlier on in form of a yellow splat of paint in different figures that would change colour when gas was near. Interesting theory! And a must-know!

High regards,
Swindiana

IndianaJames · Post by **IndianaJames** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:25 am

The black stuff seems to be some kind of tar....impervious to anything that touches it....

I J

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:20 am

The black stuff seems to be some kind of tar....impervious to anything that touches it....

Experiment update:

Unfortunately, no one was around to take my picture yesterday. If so, you would have seen a seriously dumb-struck face...
My messing with the stripe did something to it, made it "unstable", so to speak... I decided to wash the bag, mild detergent only, in order to get any chemical residue out of it. The strip bleeds heavily - water was black after rinse. Apparently, I only managed to remove the surface layer of the "tar-ish" black stuff... let's just say there was more where that came from. I guess H.P. Lovecraft would describe it better:

"Bubbling up from the foul, ancient fibres was the utter filth, that demonic plague of black, putrid paint, rising to the surface with a horrendous determination. I stared in awe at the writhing, dripping bag, as the stripe which I had previously so consequently obliterated from the cursed bag's surface, re-appeared slowly before my awe-struck eyes... what blasphemous and abominable mixture did I bring into being with my insane experiments with those diabolical solutions and chemical compounds?
"My work was all in vain" was my last coherent thought before I sank into a maelstrom of feverish delusion. In the pail, the compressed and deformed bag gazed upon me in a cloud of acrid vapour, the hideous stripe again in full visibility..."

In other words - the bleedthrough caused stripe to reappear... a little fainter, but nevertheless again covering the spots I managed to brush clean.
I'm going to leave the Mk VII alone for a while now. We'll see if I continue the experiments someother time... so tired...

S%d it. I'm dyeing it instead.

/SJ

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:03 pm

Scan Jones, GREAT Lovecraft tribute! I'm familiar with his work and I was actually saying to myself "which story is this from" until I came to the part with the bag

Very cool!

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:33 pm

Thank you for your kind words, Guybrush! I'm a little into ol' Howard Phillips myself, and though there were just as many and versatile adjectives streaming from my mouth while washing the bag, I thought the ones Lovecraft used would be more suitable for a family audience...

Cthulhu F'taghn!
/SJ

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Yog Sothoth!

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:38 am

OK guys and girls. This is the latest about the black stripe:

Lars, As far as we know it is paint that was used to show that they belong to a certian regiment so no one could steal them, this is a common pratice in the british army, still used today.

(From Soldier of Fortune in the UK.)

Regards,
Swindiana

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:22 am

No, I'm sorry, Mikey. I will never, ever embrace that black stripe... it's plain ugly and extremely annoying. I did my worst trying to get rid of it, immersing it in various disgusting chemicals... it almost worked, but alas, not all the way...

Good thing I finally found a mint Mk VII. The disc and other metal details from the striped bag might come in handy if and when I'm going to accurize my WPG some day...

/SJ

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:45 am

Coming to think of it, some of these bags survived a world at war better than they survived us...

Regards,
Swindiana

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:30 pm

Oh, if bags could talk:
"First I was at war where my owner died, got horrible blood-stains all over me and I was drenched in a horrible mix of blood, water and oil on the beaches of Normandy. That wasn't TOO bad. But then some Indiana Jones nut found me, ripped off my strap, dipped me in highly toxic chemicals, and then ran around masquerading as Indiana Jones, all the while going through the most god-awful environments. Yep, life was good until the Indy fans found me." :junior: -IJ

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:01 pm

The bags started trying to talk sence into me a long time ago, but I think they're just crazy. They say one can go nuts if taking the interest in them too far. Right...

Bags are nice, bags are my friends...

Regards,
Swindiana

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:28 pm

I was there when Scandinavia Jones took on this scientific test. Here's a photo that was taken of us as the chlorine chemical reaction was going on... I'm on the one on the left.

As you can see, he decided it would be safer to do it outside, so that any harmful gasses would not be trapped in a room with us, and instead would escape.

In Christ,
Shane

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:35 pm

You made me smile this afternoon, Shane!

Regards. Michaelson

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:45 pm

I try, Michaelson... I try.

In Christ,
Shane

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:01 pm

Ya done good, boy! I needed that too!

High regards. Michaelson

adamallstar · Post by **adamallstar** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:06 pm

1.21 gigawatts!!!!!

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:38 pm

Great Scott. Well, since you brought it up, Shane, I might as well disclose some of our dialogue that took place that night:

Indy McFly: Scandy?
SJ: Shane! You made it!
Indy McFly: Yeah!
SJ: Welcome to my latest experiment. This is the big one, the one I've been waiting for all my life.
Indy McFly: Um, well it's a Mk VII box gas mask bag, right?
SJ: Bear with me, Shane, all of your questions will be answered. Roll tape and we'll proceed.
Indy McFly: Ok. Scandinavia, is that a Devo suit?
SJ: Never mind that now, never mind that now.
Indy McFly: All right, I'm ready.

---

SJ: Please note that the bag will be completely immersed in my
Iraqi-purchased, biohazard-labelled chemical . Got it?
Indy McFly: You have this smoldering goo to use on the bag?
SJ: Watch this.
Indy McFly: Yeah, OK, got it.
SJ: Not me, the bag, the bag! If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits the vat of toxic ooze, you're gonna see some serious smoke. Watch this! Watch this!

---

SJ: Ha! What did I tell you?! 0.1 mol dm-3 sulphuric acid!!! The black stripe dissolvement
occurred at exactly 1:20AM and 0 seconds!

/SJ

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:34 pm

rofl

All I have to say is, "Excellent."

In Christ,
Shane

IndianaJames · Post by **IndianaJames** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:59 pm

I'm dying you guys!!

Indy J

"SJ, are you tellin' me youve invented a way to remove the black stripe from a MK VII?!?! This is heavy!!"

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:12 am

Problem is the whole bag seem to disappear, and then you get another one in mint or almost mint condition... It's like magic! Tell us how you do it.

This info from the latest source I've found:

Hi,
Sorry but the only ones in stock at the moment are very "tired" Mk. VIIs.
Price is £10 plus postage.
Regards,
Roy

Hi,
They have hols/black stripes/names in felt tip pen - all are in pretty poor condition.
Regards,
Roy

I haven't yet gotten an answer to how many there are though. If there still is interest I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Regards,
Swindiana

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:03 pm

Problem is the whole bag seem to disappear, and then you get another one in mint or almost mint condition... It's like magic! Tell us how you do it.

Well, it's not magic, really. Only science. Perhaps this formula will clarify:

/SJ