David Morgan best or better

[Kevjh]

Is the David Morgan Whip the best made bullwhip or is there a better one out there? please let me know

[Indycire]

If you mean "best" by movie authentic then i would say David Morgan. if you mean by quality,length of life etc. then i have no idea there. So ill pass on through now.

ps.. thought about it little more, for the price i hope it would be the 'best' in quality also.

[binkmeisterRick]

Kevjh, I think you'll find that Morgan whips are some of the absoblute best out there. He provided the whips for all the Indiana Jones movies, so that should say something about the quality of the whips. David Morgan has also written probably the quintesential book on whip making, too, so that should say something about his work.

Bu the way, welcom to C.O.W.!

bink

[Robert Duke]

For those who responded, do you own a Morgan whip to qualify your statements?

Does David Morgan deserve credit? Oh heck yea. Almost all of it.
Since he did make the bullwhips for the movie there has been a bright path shone to his front door. Congratulate him for that and for a great big renewed interest in whipcracking.
Are his whips the same as the ones he made for the movie? No. He has changed the styling slightly but only to improve it.
Any whipmaker that thinks he's arrived is already lost. A whipmaker should always be seeking to improve quality.
I'd say there are probably a dozen good whipmakers that can make a quality Indy whip as well or near to a Morgan. You asked... Are they (David Morgan's whips) the absolute best out there? The key word is absolute... Should you ask it that way?
Does David Morgan make all the whips? If so, what percentage does he make? Some whipmakers use apprentices to crank out a lot of their work and it makes sense if you have orders for whips everyday. You would never be able to keep up. It takes me a good 20 to 30 hours of steady work to make an Indy bullwhip. It's extremely tedious work. Some of you whipmakers may be faster than me. So that 20 to 30 hours often breaks down into nearly a week to turnaround a whip giving it 5 to 6 hours of work each day. People are very demanding and hoping to get their whip the next day. If you want a whip that quick, go to David Morgan or westerstageprops who keep them in stock usually in all different lenghts and colors if so desired.
Some of you guys that don't even own a bullwhip except for a Texas Bullwhip piece of trash or something equally faulty should stick to finding something screen accurate or close. Some of you guys have even hung a rope on your belt while wearing your Halloween costume.... LOL
It's very hard to say "the very absolute best whipmaker"... but when David Morgan made the whips for the movies he was given instant acclaim and credit is due for that. His demand from that causes him to sell his whips for $70 a foot. Thus a good 8 footer is $560. Paul Stenhouse makes a very fine whip from what I hear and have seen pictures of that sell for around $33 a foot. That's a bargain. EC Whips makes a good whip for about the same price. Jerry Rasmussen makes a good whip.
My Indy whips price per foot is around $36.
Joe Strain makes a good whip too though he doesnt advertise "Indy" whips. He certainly will make one for about $47 a foot or thereabouts.
The ones I've mentioned are all reputable and will guarantee satisfaction. That si the main thing. If you don't like it in any way, they will do whatever it takes to resolve the problem. That may be make you a new one, fix the one you bought or just refund your money, no questions asked. That's the kind of people you want to do business with.

Do Not Buy Texas Bullwhips as seen so much on ebay. They are full of bull. They promise everything and give you nothing but trash. :evil:
Stick to the good guys and the ones here on Club Obi Wan. We all police our own. LOL

[Whipcrack]

Kevjh, these guys all give good advise.

If you buy a Morgan you will have a whip made by the same man who made the whips for the three movies. David Morgan makes each one by hand, himself. He is over 70 years old and will be remembered as one of the greatest of all time.

This said this whips are priced higher than anone else in the makret. For an equal quality whip, for less, I would recommend a Strain or a Stenhouse. I have whips made by all three of these gentlemen and they are all of the highest quality. I use them all, they are great crackers and are made to last.

One point of advice I wuld give is start with a 8 footer not a 10 or a 12. You will be able to get much better results.

Good luck and welcome to COW

Bill Walton

[binkmeisterRick]

Sorry, Robert, you're right. I should have made my statements a little clearer. I don't own a whip yet, but what I meant to say was that many people find Morgan whips to be excellent, top quality whips, and since Morgan whips were used in the movies, it could be implied that their quality must be good for them to be featured in a major motion picture.

My comment about David Morgan's book was to illustrate that if his book is well known, respected, and used in the whip making world, then one could assume that a Morgan whip would be a top quality whip.

That being said, Morgan's whip are pricey and way out of my price range.

I didn't try to sound as if there were no other whipmakers to be considered in the equation. In fact, I agree with the statement that a good craftsman is always striving to improve his or her own work. From what I've read and the homework I've been trying to do, there are many whipmakers whose work easily matches or surpasses David Morgan, although I cannot back that claim up personally, since again, I am currently whipless.

From what I've read, whips from Stenhouse, Duke, ECWhips, Strain, and many others (which I can't currently name off the top of my head) are excellent whips, although every whipcracker has a personal preference on which suits the cracker best. Sorry if I stepped on any toes, but thanks for bringing up some great points, Robert!

bink

[Indiana Texas-girl]

If you buy a Morgan you will have a whip made by the same man who made the whips for the three movies. David Morgan makes each one by hand, himself. He is over 70 years old and will be remembered as one of the greatest of all time.

I've also heard that he has apprentices that make many of the whips that are sold. Anyone else heard this?

[Indycire]

Well I did say i had no idea on quality and what not. But he did make the whips for the movie which is why i would think they would be the most Indy authentic. I was just giving my opinion, not facts. sorry...

[Kevjh]

So by the way it sounds the David Morgan whip is the way to go. And 8 ft would be a good lenth. Thank you all very much for the help Kevjh

[binkmeisterRick]

Kevjh, before settling on the Morgan, do some good reading in the bullwhip forum archives. If you want a whip just because it was the one in the movies, then yes, go for the Morgan if you can afford it. But if you want a good whip which "looks" like the whip from the movies, but it doesn't have to be the whip from the movies, then don't rule out many of the whipmakers you'll find here at COW. There are plenty of good whips besides a Morgan.

The vendors who frequent COW all make good whips and for less than the price of a David Morgan. I'm basing this not from personal experience, but off of my personal research and homework. I am budget conscious, but when I do finally purchase my own whip, my decision will be based off of lots of research and inquiries.

I guess what I'm saying is this: if you know with all certainty that you want a David Morgan whip, then go for it. From what I understand, you'll be more than happy with it. But if you are not 100% sure on what you truly want in a whip, take the time to look at the options. As Paul Stenhouse would more or less say, be an educated buyer and research all the whipmakers. Don't buy purely on impulse (if you can avoid it! ) but with confidence.

I'm not trying to confuse you, I just want you to choose wisely."

Good luck!

bink

[Mola Ram]

Well,
I’m not speaking from personal experiences, as I don’t own a Morgan.
I have heard that the whips made by Morgan apprentice are not
so hot though. Such as stories of them falling apart after 30 mins of cracking and such.

It would be much better if you settled on a whip made by someone ales, also cheaper. the only way you can be guaranteed a good quality whip from Morgan would be if you bought a old one. Morgan is by far not the best. There are little known whipmakers out in the nowhere land of Aust. who could probably give Morgan a run for his money. Just because he is well known does NOT mean he is the best.
Take my opinion with a grain of salt


Kindest Regards
Adam

[Paul_Stenhouse]

BinkmeisterRick,

That's pretty much what I'd say!

After one has done one's homework to one's own satisfaction, then one can hear those infamous words echo about "choosing wisely". First and foremost, make sure you will be happy, because you are paying for it. Ensure you only pay for it once!

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

[binkmeisterRick]

I'm glad I paraphrased you well enough, Paul! WHEW! 8-[

And to let folks know, I'm STILL doing research! If I make a poor decision, it'll be MY fault! ...So what's the number for Texas Bullwhips again? JUST KIDDING!!!!

bink

[Whipcrack]

I've also heard that he has apprentices that make many of the whips that are sold. Anyone else heard this?

From my understanding quite the opposite is true. A David Morgan whip is hand made by David Morgan alone. That is what you are paying for and that is what you get. The last Morgan's Catalog I saw also sold Tony Jacka whips and they are labled as such.

I do understand that Morgan has another braider who does the belts, dog quirks and other smaller brading jobs but Mr. Morgan makes the whips alone.

I am not saying get a Morgan but I think you are wrong about apprentices making his whips.

Thanks
Bill Walton

[Mola Ram]

Bill,
Holly is completly correct. Morgan has 2 other people that
currently make whips for him(maybe more). There is also a possibly
true rumor spreading around that morgan does not
make them anymore all-together.(just A Rumor)
kindest regards
Adam

[Paul_Stenhouse]

Hi Everyone,

I posted a message to Holly yesterday. I'll paraphrase it here. David has a girl named Megan who works for him, and she has done so since about 1998. My understanding is that she does the quirts and signal whips. Currently, he has no one else chiefly making whips besides him. I'm sure she does plait some of the fullsize whips at times, but if that occurs, it's under David's strict supervision. I know that when I was there, he wouldn't let me plait whips without him watching. I'd have to go back to making whistle lanyards whenever he went back up front. A fellow named Royce used to work there for a short time, but has gone off to sadlery school in E. Washington. I'm not sure what Royce worked on, but I'm sure that it was whipmaking as well as other things. Someone else may know something different, but that's what I know. David has several other people working for him that don't make whips or plait, and they instead answer phones and fill orders. Anyone who's seen David catalog knows that whips aren't the only thing he sells.

Does anyone else know anything different (i.e., have spoken with David)?

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

[The_Edge]

Morgan has one apprentice and she does make many of the bullwhips coming out the shop these days. David is still highly involved and does, in fact, still make a number of whips himself though his production rate has decreased significantly. This was primarily because he was devoting much of his time to writing his book.

Royce Vallejo, whom I know and has become quite an accomplished braider, worked in his shop for a few months last year learning Morgan's style of whip making. In addition to working as a guide in Montana, Royce has been learning many aspects of horse tack production. He has recently expressed to David his desire to return to the shop and put in the time to really refine his craft.

[Mola Ram]

Well,
Morgans age is also affecting him too. The older he gets
it must be much harder to make a plait tight.
I wonder when he will officaly retire.
Adam

[Paul_Stenhouse]

Thanks Kyle for chiming in about this. I was hoping you'd confirm or refute what I knew.

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

[Indiana Joe]

If you buy a Morgan you will have a whip made by the same man who made the whips for the three movies. David Morgan makes each one by hand, himself. He is over 70 years old and will be remembered as one of the greatest of all time.

I've also heard that he has apprentices that make many of the whips that are sold. Anyone else heard this?

Thanks Paul and Kyle for clearing things up.

It appears Holly, Adam, and I were under this impression together. I often read the Yahoo Whip Enthusiasts threads and I believe there was some discussion earlier this year regarding the work of David Morgan's apprentice. Apparently someone new to the sport had shown up to a local WE meeting with a new Morgan whip and some of the experienced members had to pull him aside and explain why his expensive whip was not considered a quality whip.

The good news is that David Morgan took it upon himself to correct everything and fix the situation. As Robert Duke mentioned earlier, great customer service is one of the things you look for in a good whip vendor.

I.J.

[JerseyJones]

My 02.,

<grain of salt...swallow....there we go>

I have two Joe Strain bullwhips and 8' and 10' I have seen a Strain laid out next to a Morgan and said....hmmm wow these look the same. Most folks I've talked to have also equated Joe's quality as equal to that of DM's and his Indy bull is a dead ringer for the older DM. And substantially cheaper. Both of mine handle like a dream, crack like a cannon and wear like steel. I heartly recommend Joe's whips.

Now do not forget that there are several other superb whipmakers right here in the IndyGear backyard: Jim Markell (ecwhips), Paul Stenhouse, Robert Duke, The_Edge, and others who I apologize to for having a very short memory !

These folks make their whips (Indy Styled or otherwise) with lots of TLC and attention. I have personally used an EC Whips bullwhip and been truly impressed at Jim's work. I have yet to have the Stenhouse/Duke/Edge experience ( because if I buy one more whip my wife will shoot me !), but let the forumites' opinions tell you all about it; they are all very well respected whip makers as well.

I'd love a DM. I don't love it $700.00 worth. To me its too expensive for what it is anymore and since he altered the foundation and handle length, I doesn't have the Indy look as much. I cannot speak to his quality, since I don't have any to test out, but I respect the opinions of our true whip-heads on DM 's legend status.

I am waiting for an older DM. and waiting.....and waiting

In essence, shop around and find what fits for you.

All the best

Ken /JJ

[English Whip Maker]

Hi Folks

Thought I'd add my thoughts here, as a whip vendor and sometime maker.

It's my firmly held belief that, above a certain basic level, the key question for anyone looking at buying a whip is not 'is this better than xyz's whips' but 'is this the right whip for me?'. Beyond that, nothing else matters: price, materials, number of strands and bellies, length etc etc are all parts of the answer to that second question.

If you're an Indy fan and part of your enjoyment of your whip will be knowing that it comes from the same workshop as those used in the films, then I guess it has to be a Morgan whip if you can afford it. I understand this feeling: I certainly gain pleasure from knowing about the whip maker, and about how they made the whips I own.

Some whip makers do all the work themselves, others have employees.

I wouldn't get too worried about the possibility of 'apprentices' making whips under a known maker's name. It's a practice that has been going on since the heyday of the whip making industry back in the 19th Century, and it need bear no relationship to the quality of the end product. In fact, if you were around in Victorian days, the chances were that half a dozen people would have been involved in making your whip. All you would have known was the whip came from a certain manufactory. You would never have known the names of the people who made it, but they were all experts in their particular field.

With regard to modern whip making, remember that whoever owns the workshop that a particular whip comes out of - be it David Morgan or one of the big Australian makers - has probably taught whoever they employ to make their whips and has both reputation and personal pride to protect. So I tend to think that the idea of 'apprentices' is a bit of a misnomer. 'Assistants' perhaps. Whoever they are, you can rest assured that they wouldn't be capable (let alone allowed) to make production whips unless they were skilled craftspeople in their own right.

The only qualification I would put on that is with respect to some of the bigger Australian producers. The volume of whips they make means that there is a greater possibility of something slipping through the net. But I have little doubt that, with few exceptions, the people who put their names to those businesses would be very quick to sort the problem out once they knew about it.

Dave
www.whipstore.com

[Kevjh]

Well I ordered it DM 8ft Let you know when I get it.

[Indiana Texas-girl]

I wouldn't get too worried about the possibility of 'apprentices' making whips under a known maker's name. It's a practice that has been going on since the heyday of the whip making industry back in the 19th Century, and it need bear no relationship to the quality of the end product.

Maybe so in most cases, but in Morgan's case, if I'm going to pay $600 for a whip, I'd want it made by Morgan and not an apprentice. I could buy a high quality whip from Strain or Stenhouse whip for less and they both apprenticed under Morgan. I hope no offense is taken by anyone here.

[binkmeisterRick]

I agree with you, ITG. My "toy budget" is small enough, so when I make a buy, it's usually an educated buy and a well thought out purchase. If I were to pay that much money for a Morgan, no doubt I'd want it made by the man himself. But if the price were half that, then it would not be as big a concern. I'm not doubting that the people that work for him make good whips, but it comes down to price for me. Fot that much dough, I want a Morgan Morgan.

Yes, ultimately it comes down to "what is the best whip for me?" I have it narrowed down to a few whipmakers, but I want to be able to actually handle and compare some whips in person before making a buy. So... are there any whip owners in or near Fort Wayne, Indiana?

bink

[Kevjh]

I am told that he will be making it. and I swiched it to the 10 ft I guess that was the size he carried in the movies. Kevjh

[Bufflehead Jones]

Depends on which scene. I think he usually carried a 10 foot on his belt. He cracked an 8 footer in the streets of Cairo scene. He used several different length stunt whips for various scenes. A 10 footer is pretty big. You can do more with an 8 foot whip and may be a better choice.

Check out this thread to help you decide.

http://www.indygear.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8306

[ob1al]

Let me start by saying I don't own a Morgan, but would love to if money was no object.

I believe that regardless of whether DM is producing every whip by hand himself or supervising other talented individuals during the process, Morgan has to ensure the quality of the production he is putting his name to or he would soon go out of business. You are paying for an excellent whip by all accounts, but also for the kudos of owning a MORGAN -fair do's IMO, as I say I'd probably buy into that if money was no object.

I currently own a emBrand 10ft roohide Indy made by Bernie in Austrailia - a great whip to be sure - but will soon replace this with an 8 ft Indy made to my personal specs - BIG thanks to jerryrwm here on the forum BTW.

I am what you might call an apprentice whipcracker, a novice really, but I have quickly realised that owning an exact duplicate 'movie prop whip' is nowhere near as important to me as owning an Indy-styled bullwhip which suits me as an individual.

So my take on the question is, the best Indy bullwhip is the one which YOU like best (and the one which best suits your budget).

Cheers,

Al

[racerx]

So my take on the question is, the best Indy bullwhip is the one which YOU like best (and the one which best suits your budget).

Cheers,

Well said!

Every whip, will have its own personality so to speak, perform different,
but if that whip performs and act according to the way you wish,
then it is the best whip for your needs, whether targeting, or doing whip tricks and so fourth.

ATB

Jim J.

[Kevjh]

I got it today a 10ft DM I love it he did a great jod on it. Kevjh

[zohar]

I got it today a 10ft DM I love it he did a great jod on it. Kevjh

Let's see some pics!

[Kevjh]

Here is a pic of my whip and some of my props. Thank you Kevjh
http://public.fotki.com/kevjh/indy_j/

[Mola Ram]

Get us some close ups.
Adam

[Kevjh]

Get us some close ups.
Adam

I added some close ups Kevjhhttp://public.fotki.com/kevjh/indy_j/

[JerseyJones]

Very nice ! I notice that the handle does not look as short as I thought it would based on other newer DM's I've seen.

Anyone got ideas here ?

Enjoy it !

Ken/JJ

[Sergei]

Sorry to respond so late to this post. I have been trying to play catch up here. Every so often this type of stuff comes up about David - here and on other groups. I think all the posters have covered the bases here -pro and con. But it tears my heart when the negative posting comes out on David.

The only comments I would add are to put things in perspective. David's contribution to resurecting the craft here in the US has inspired a generation of younger whipmakers like no one else has done. He possessed the talent of an engineer and an artist at the same time. Which in my opinion, makes you a great braider because you need to understand the science, but yet without the artistry you fail. The craft would have slowly died here in the states, if it were not for him. Young Joe Strain, was so inspired in the early 90's from Morgan's book he took out from the library that he became one of the greatest braiders to date. It was David's patience working with the young Joe Strain that made him great. And the story goes on and on. The benefits are that they are a lot more decent bullwhip makers now as compared to 25 years ago here in the US. This younger generation is starting to prove it.

Take care...
-Sergei

[Bernardodc]

Sergei,

Amen.

P.S. Good to see you posting again!

[Whipcrack]

As Sergei stated so eloquently, David Morgan is the MAN! Kevjh will be able to crack that Morgan 10 footer everyday for many, many years. As long as he keeps it off the concrete and sand and maintains it he will still be cracking it. There are other great American makers out there but they all have roots back to David Morgan. IMO he is a National Treasure. I crack one of his whips every day and know he was the one who made the whips for Raiders and that movie got me interested in cracking in the first place, back in 1981.

However, I did not know about David Morgan or the Raider’s whipmaker until I started coming here. COW educated me and I feel lucky to have found this place.

Thanks
Bill Walton