HJ Reboot (thanks for reading)

[Howard Weinstein]

Also If you know what you're looking for(I do) you can hop over to ebay and buy yourself a Raiders-style hat block right now.

Nothing really unique about an "original" block unless you wear a 58 or 59 ( whatever Harrison's size is?)and could determine which block it was from the rest of the pile in HJ's storage.

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Brian, if you don't mind sharing a little insider knowledge, is there a particular block that qualifies as a Raiders style block? A number (as some of us already know, old wood blocks were numbered to indicate style) or certain specs?

Not that we all want to start a hat-making biz as you and others have done. But some us would find the right block useful for maintaining our own hats.

I'd read that the #52 block was close, so I got one. Turns out the #52 is slightly tapered front and back, so it really doesn't yield the all-around straightsided shape of an Indy hat. Which block does the job?

Thanks!

The original blocks were tappered slightly on the sides and quite a bit front to back. I have 5 original poets from the Raiders period one with an almost pristen unbashed crown and they are clearly tappered. The side tapper is only slight which is why it looks striaghtish on screen. If they are made straight they mushroom like some of the earlier copies that were offered with the straight sides. Does the No.52 have an even tapper all the way round or more on the front and back?

My old #52 wood block looks untapered on the sides -- pretty much straight up and down. If there's any taper at all on the sides, you'd have to carefully measure it to find out.

[RegDwight]

I too am sadly late to the party. I was curious if any information had come to light regarding the original supplier of the felt for the Raiders hat. I believe recalling that someone who handled both Raiders and LC screen used hats mentioned how pliable the Raiders was. With that information sadly gone, I was wondering if anyone recalled anything that had been discovered during this Herbert Johnson reboot.

[Jeremiah]

There is nothing to compare to the felt the raiders hero was made from. Beaver felt is the closest. But it’s not rabbit so if you are a purist you are out of luck.

[RegDwight]

Thanks! Even if the felt isn’t the same, the current HJs look better made than the ones in the films following Raiders. Perhaps even better than the Raiders hat itself if Herbert Johnson was in a bit of a decline since the golden age of hat-wearing. Please excuse my ignorance, but, I was curious if any details regarding the original hat had surfaced as a result of Herbert Johnson opening their records. I believe the consensus that I have read is that a company named Cury supplied the felt for Raiders and Borsalino supplied the sequels. However, I have also seen it said that Cury supplied the felt for Temple of Doom and Borsalino supplied Last Crusaide. Also heard a rumor that the original felt maker had been discovered to be an English company. Because of being new here and missing a lot of what came out of older threads, I was curious exactly what has been revealed about that original hat and what the general accepted consensus is. I greatly appreciate the polite and helpful responses I have received!

[michael]

Thanks! Even if the felt isn’t the same, the current HJs look better made than the ones in the films following Raiders. Perhaps even better than the Raiders hat itself if Herbert Johnson was in a bit of a decline since the golden age of hat-wearing. Please excuse my ignorance, but, I was curious if any details regarding the original hat had surfaced as a result of Herbert Johnson opening their records. I believe the consensus that I have read is that a company named Cury supplied the felt for Raiders and Borsalino supplied the sequels. However, I have also seen it said that Cury supplied the felt for Temple of Doom and Borsalino supplied Last Crusaide. Also heard a rumor that the original felt maker had been discovered to be an English company. Because of being new here and missing a lot of what came out of older threads, I was curious exactly what has been revealed about that original hat and what the general accepted consensus is. I greatly appreciate the polite and helpful responses I have received!

Wasn’t the original rabbit felt Portuguese?

[RegDwight]

I’m unsure. I think a lot of what I have seen is old information or unsubstantiated conjecture.

[RegDwight]

Herbert Johnson apparently was outsourcing production to factories during the time hats were made for all three original Indy movies. The fact they are bespoke and handmade now indicates higher quality than the original, which is great for consumers! But I was wondering if the details of the factory or felt-maker had been revealed to clear up much conjecture or if it remains a mystery. Brazilian felt was a long time belief for the Raiders hat, but Portuguese felt could make sense too. But it would be fascinating if Herbert Johnson had actually released names and concrete details from their records.

[Castor Dioscuri]

So I was peeking at the Swaine Adney website, and I noticed that they have several variations of the Poet on offer.

https://www.swaineadeneybrigg.com/collections/hats/men" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does anybody know if the beaver variant is their reboot version of the hat? Or is the reboot something that has to be specifically requested? Their hat section is just a little bit confusing, as they mention a bespoke range (on their Picadilly Poet page), but I can't seem to find what exactly is part of that bespoke range...

[IndyFan89]

I too am curious. I thought they offered an LC version of the hat as well?


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[jlee562]

If it says Raiders, it's the reboot. Rabbit or beaver. They have more info on Facebook but they're currently moving to a new facility. they showcase a lot of the bespoke work on Facebook and Instagram.

They'll crease it any way you like but I'm not sure if they're using a different LC block.

[Castor Dioscuri]

Has anyone picked up a Poet since Jack left? All the posts on the reboot hats really were raving about his work, and I'm hesitant to order one in case his successor(s) doesn't measure up. After all, I've held off on getting a HJ for years because of how much everyone agreed their hats pre-Jack was inaccurate, and I'm sure the block only figures partially into that equation.

Also, I'm curious if HJ still dry blocks their hats. AB has really spoiled us with their top secret anti-taper treatments, but going by what Delk himself said in Fedoralounge about a decade ago:

Every HJ I ever got in, (around a hundred) has been lopsided on the bow side of the crown. Shrinkage. Prior to it getting to me. These hats are dry blocked instead of steam or wet blocked at the factory, is what I was told by HJ.

Would stink to go through all the trouble and expense of getting a HJ just to have it go funky on account of being dry blocked... And not in a tapered Raiders sort of way. Can anyone confirm if HJ has hopefully changed to steam-blocking?

[Michaelson]

Why not drop them a line? Michelle is a member here, and they have a very active FB page, and I'm sure they'd be MORE than happy to 'talk shop' with you.

She's "NoBadDates" here.

You can either 'PM" or send her an email from her profile.

They're very proud of their new 'bespoke' hat shop, and are cranking out hand made hats daily now.

Regards! Michaelson

[Indiana Green]

Arriving late to the party, but I was very intrigued when I read about the #52 hat block. Years ago I bought a vintage hat block from ebay and used it to reblock my Jimmy Pierce, with fairly decent results. The crown shape appeared to be spot-on, and the only issue was that the brim was too short (it was that way when I bought it, and got even shorter with the reblock).

http://s255.photobucket.com/user/jord42 ... t=3&page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Meandering to the point, I went back and looked at the photos of my block and lo-and-behold it's a 52!



I haven't tried my hand at a reblock in a long time since I never found a wide enough flange, but now I want to take another crack at it. Or maybe I'll just save my money for an HJ reboot

[iwantamorganreelbad1]

Hello all!
Over Spring Break I’ll be visiting London (my hotel being about 30mins from Herbert Johnson according to their website) and it’s quite possible that I’ll have a chance to visit them. I’ll only be there a week, but would it be worth it to stop by and inquire about purchasing a Poet? There’s no issue of money but I’m not sure if I should just wait until I get back and order online. Their new poet looks pretty great from the posts I’ve looked up on here and having “the” hat is something I don’t think I’ll be able to pass up.

Also, apologies for my impromptu-ness as it’s been quite a while since I’ve been anywhere near the hat game.

[Mulceber]

I think that sounds great. If you can order in person, why not?

[jlee562]

Getting measured by the hatmaker is the best possible option!

[iwantamorganreelbad1]

Thank you, sirs!
I’m not sure if I’ll order right away (it’s a theatre funded trip so our itinerary is chock full of shows), but at the very least I’ll still want to go visit in person and get them my measurements! I really couldn’t pass something like this up. And if I remember to charge my phone battery I’ll see about posting pictures up too (probably in a new thread so I don’t keep derailing this one.)

[NoBadDates]

Hey folks!

Sorry I haven't been on here for a while and missed some questions here.

RegDwight - you mentioned felt suppliers. Like many fellow hat making companies and individuals today we primarily use the Portuguese company FEPSA for our fur felt hat bodies. We, like many others, choose to do so because at this point in time they are the best at offering both quality and a vast range of buying options. Manufacturing processes and availability change over years and what was available 30 years ago will be different to today and from different choices of manufacturer. Things change but we always seek to get the best available. It is also difficult to map those changes and the reasons behind them when records are not kept or are lost when companies change hands etc. Picking through conjecture, hearsay and misinformation and rumours can be a minefield. Fact remains today we seek to get the best of what is available and one of the best is FEPSA who we continue to work closely with to improve the felt we order from them and thus continually improve what we can offer.

Castor Dioscuri - I am happy to inform you that EVERYTHING we have produced since the 2017 reboot here at HJ is bespoke, completely hand made using STEAM to block! The beauty of complete bespoke is that if you want to choose beaver over rabbit then you can. If you want a Raiders look with OR without the TURN then you can. If you want LC or a Mystery Of The Blues look then you can. #yourhatyourway
I have to apologise for the current limitations of the SAB website in terms of information clarity and ordering options. We are almost finished building a new dedicated HJ website which addresses these issues. Meanwhile do check out our FB and Instagram pages for alternative ways to discuss options and ordering and of course lots of images of our bespoke hats.

I was hired in 2016, just after 'Jack' joined HJ. I was working as a milliner and was brought in before the reboot to work with 'Jack' so that the company could go back to offering quality bespoke in-house hats rather than buying in the Christys manufactured ones any longer. My DNA as it were has made up a very large part of everything that has come out of HJ since that time. I took over as department manager in September 2017.

Thank you Michaelson for pointing folks in my direction and again apologies my late response to this thread. I have less and less time these days to pop on over but you can always reach me with a private message or through our social media.

Iwantamorganreelbad1 - Please do visit the shop! Plenty to see and our lovely staff will look after you and get you measured up. Have a wonderful trip!

May the adventuring continue

Have a great weekend folks!
Michelle x

[Howard Weinstein]

Hey folks!

Sorry I haven't been on here for a while and missed some questions here.

RegDwight - you mentioned felt suppliers. Like many fellow hat making companies and individuals today we primarily use the Portuguese company FEPSA for our fur felt hat bodies. We, like many others, choose to do so because at this point in time they are the best at offering both quality and a vast range of buying options. Manufacturing processes and availability change over years and what was available 30 years ago will be different to today and from different choices of manufacturer. Things change but we always seek to get the best available. It is also difficult to map those changes and the reasons behind them when records are not kept or are lost when companies change hands etc. Picking through conjecture, hearsay and misinformation and rumours can be a minefield. Fact remains today we seek to get the best of what is available and one of the best is FEPSA who we continue to work closely with to improve the felt we order from them and thus continually improve what we can offer. ...

May the adventuring continue

Have a great weekend folks!
Michelle x

Thanks for your informative post, Michelle

[Michaelson]

Thank you Michaelson for pointing folks in my direction and again apologies my late response to this thread. I have less and less time these days to pop on over but you can always reach me with a private message or through our social media.

Have a great weekend folks!
Michelle x

My pleasure!

Regards! Michaelson

[Castor Dioscuri]

Hey folks!

Sorry I haven't been on here for a while and missed some questions here.

RegDwight - you mentioned felt suppliers. Like many fellow hat making companies and individuals today we primarily use the Portuguese company FEPSA for our fur felt hat bodies. We, like many others, choose to do so because at this point in time they are the best at offering both quality and a vast range of buying options. Manufacturing processes and availability change over years and what was available 30 years ago will be different to today and from different choices of manufacturer. Things change but we always seek to get the best available. It is also difficult to map those changes and the reasons behind them when records are not kept or are lost when companies change hands etc. Picking through conjecture, hearsay and misinformation and rumours can be a minefield. Fact remains today we seek to get the best of what is available and one of the best is FEPSA who we continue to work closely with to improve the felt we order from them and thus continually improve what we can offer.

Castor Dioscuri - I am happy to inform you that EVERYTHING we have produced since the 2017 reboot here at HJ is bespoke, completely hand made using STEAM to block! The beauty of complete bespoke is that if you want to choose beaver over rabbit then you can. If you want a Raiders look with OR without the TURN then you can. If you want LC or a Mystery Of The Blues look then you can. #yourhatyourway
I have to apologise for the current limitations of the SAB website in terms of information clarity and ordering options. We are almost finished building a new dedicated HJ website which addresses these issues. Meanwhile do check out our FB and Instagram pages for alternative ways to discuss options and ordering and of course lots of images of our bespoke hats.

I was hired in 2016, just after 'Jack' joined HJ. I was working as a milliner and was brought in before the reboot to work with 'Jack' so that the company could go back to offering quality bespoke in-house hats rather than buying in the Christys manufactured ones any longer. My DNA as it were has made up a very large part of everything that has come out of HJ since that time. I took over as department manager in September 2017.

Thank you Michaelson for pointing folks in my direction and again apologies my late response to this thread. I have less and less time these days to pop on over but you can always reach me with a private message or through our social media.

Iwantamorganreelbad1 - Please do visit the shop! Plenty to see and our lovely staff will look after you and get you measured up. Have a wonderful trip!

May the adventuring continue

Have a great weekend folks!
Michelle x

Fantastic customer relations! This is definitely my next fedora purchase!

[RegDwight]

Thanks for all that information, Michelle. I 100% agree with the choice of felt supplier you decided to go with. From what I’ve seen, FEPSA felt is as close to vintage felt that a person can get today. And the fact that you offer the beaver is wonderful. Getting the original maker with the best materials!

With all the conjecture over the years, I really haven’t been able to come to a personal conclusion what the felt supplier was for the Raiders hat. However, I don’t feel that has too much bearing on the hats today. I think the only brand name that really matters is Herbert Johnson, and whether the original felt came from Cury, via Christys, or Borsalino etc... it doesn’t matter. Those companies have gone downhill since their heyday. The exact details of the provenance of the original Raiders hats - if they were modified factory hats or completely bespoke, and what factory or felt supplier was actually used - all of that is interesting just for curiosity if it is ever able to be discovered with absolutely certainty. With those fantastic pictures of an original Raiders hat that surfaced, I feel that it was a well made hat, but not as well made as current HJ.

Getting the film look is important, and HJ has done that very well since the reboot. But holding back on quality to make it more original wouldn’t be so great. And HJ hasn’t done that one bit!

[Michaelson]

From my point of view, I totally agree, RegDwight, but we also don't want to discount or ignore the fans who are consumed with provenance of an item, and see their pursuit of THE item made by the original maker from the original material is just as important to them as it seems a pursuit that can never be achieved for the very reasons you mention is to us. (how's THAT for a 'run-on' sentence?!! )

That 'heyday' is gone.....and quite frankly, living through the 70's when these items were made for the first film, that 'heyday' wasn't that great!

We had polyester shirts and suits, bell bottom jeans, and cars that fell apart the day after you drove it off the lot. NO one was making 'good stuff' anymore, and those craftsmen and their suppliers just disappeared from lack of work and interest by the general public after generations of great product production.

Today we're blessed with consumers who WANT this quality again, and those of us who WERE around back then are more than tickled to see this Renaissance of items like bespoke hats by the original makers back at work at their benches.

Keep 'em flying, and let everyone enjoy their own quest!

HIGH regards! Michaelson

[RegDwight]

Ah, yes sir, indeed! I can understand and appreciate anyone’s point of view. Especially since many fans were willing to purchase HJ Poets during the time when the quality was a shadow of what it is today, for the sake of the name. Whatever makes someone happy is the best for them!

If the original felt-maker for Raiders was still in operation, producing the same quality of felt as they were in the 70s-80s, that would be wonderful for getting “the” hat. And I would love it. However, since that isn’t the case, I’m really happy Herbert Johnson is using the best felt they can find instead of using another felt (Cury for instance) that might have been the felt used on the Raiders fedora, but are today producing a far lower quality than that used on the Raiders fedora or that produced by FEPSA.

However, if someone else has a different opinion, I can both accept and understand it, just as I can can understand the allure of owning a Poet for the name from the lower quality days (and I did have one!).

One thing I think and hope everyone can agree on is that the efforts of you, Michaelson, as well as other long-time members here have been instrumental in helping all sorts of fans have access to the gear that makes them happy. With plenty of sound advice on the forums, and contact with manufacturers to help make the gear available. High regards back to you sir!

[Michaelson]

[distantpeople]

Walked by HJ in Piccadilly Arcade yesterday and saw this in the papered up window. Looks like there will be a shop dedicated to hats and umbrellas.

[NoBadDates]

Hi there fellow fans

You are indeed correct DistantPeople...Opening on 29th April (just updated!) we will have a shop dedicated to hats and umbrellas with our sister company - Brigg, while the shop adjacent will house the Swaine Adeney leather goods. Exciting times for us and the group as a whole.

Even more exciting is that Herbert Johnson will have an all new dedicated website launching soon, which will have huge amounts of information and buying options about all of our hats but in particular lots of info on our bespoke Indy ranges. It will feature a blog section and include stories about our history and involvement in the Indiana Jones franchise. It is my aim to provide this space for fans and customers alike to enjoy the information and experience the website as more than just a shopping portal. Passion is best shared after all! I very much believe in transparency and giving the public authentic information so they can make their own informed choices without any mystique or marketing mumbo jumbo. As you can likely tell I am rather excited about it and chomping at the bit to get it launched!

Thanks again for all your kind words and support and I hope to be back here soon with news about the website. In the meantime we try to post as much as we can on our social media portals and are always happy to answer any questions there or by email. I am on workshop@herbert-johnson.co.uk

Happy adventures fellow fans!

Michelle