Hello from Team Herbert Johnson!

NoBadDates · Post by **NoBadDates** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:37 pm

Hello fans and enthusiasts

I feel it is well overdue that I introduce myself to you all. I am Michelle and I have been making and designing hats for Herbert Johnson for over a year now.

A bit about me as a maker:
I started getting into hats as a teenager and I have the very first fedora that I bought back then still in my collection.

I have been a maker and sewer from a very young age and have used and improved those skills continuously to this day. I love hand sewing. As much as I can proficiently wield a sewing machine I will almost always choose in favour of hand sewing. Fine quality hand sewing is one of the most rewarding experiences for me and I get to enjoy it every day here at HJ.

I am a firm believer that you can never acquire too many hand crafting skills. That’s why I can weld, airbrush, repair automotive paintwork including custom spray and I also design and make corsets. I picked up hatmaking and millinery in 2012 because I wanted to block my own Indiana Jones fedora.

After leaving a 15 year career in the automotive industry painting cars, I spent 2015/16 as an assistant milliner, blocking and trimming hats and headpieces. I was about to set up my own business making hats, headdresses and corsets when I saw HJ’s job vacancy for a hatmaker. I started in October 2016.

Herbert Jonhson:
As many of you know already, Herbert Johnson is now part of the Swaine Adeney Brigg group. Last year SAB decided it was time Herbert Johnson stopped buying in machine made hats and return to completely handmade bespoke craftsmanship. This is and will continue to be a process. Our products are always evolving as we strive to bring better components and a better product to the market on an ongoing basis. Listening to feedback has been and always will be an essential part of this process.

If any of you follow us on Facebook or Instagram you will have seen my work, customer hats, improvements and experiments in new styles and ribbon work. We are currently making further improvements with our kit and components so stay tuned on FB for updates.

Team HJ today:
Michelle - Your Hatmaker
Mel - Our genius behind social media and photography
Laura - Apprentice hatmaker and professional seamstress

A big hello from us all @ team HJ!

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:40 pm

Welcome, Michelle!

Regard! Michaelson

Charybdis · Post by **Charybdis** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:17 pm

Pleasure to meet you! Thanks for coming here and letting us know what is going on at HJ!

Glenville86 · Post by **Glenville86** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:15 pm

Welcome.

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:29 pm

Welcome aboard Michelle!

-TS

Post by **Dalexs** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:16 pm

Welcome to the chaos Michelle!

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:02 pm

Welcome to Club Obi Wan!

fedoraiders · Post by **fedoraiders** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:54 pm

Welcome Michelle!

Your work are amazing!

mark seven · Post by **mark seven** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:09 am

Welcome Michelle!

NoBadDates · Post by **NoBadDates** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:38 am

Thank you all for the lovely welcome! Great to be here

Michelle

Post by **Mike** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:18 am

I'll chime in with my own welcome to the looney bin. Its nice to know the HJ line will continue in good hands!

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:23 am

Michelle, welcome to Club Obi Wan!

Indiana Joosse · Post by **Indiana Joosse** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:14 pm

Welcome and nice to be having you.

Howard Weinstein · Post by **Howard Weinstein** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:10 am

Thanks for joining in here. I'm sure many of us look forward to your sharing HJ hats, news, and behind-the-scenes stuff.

Dee-k3 · Post by **Dee-k3** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:27 pm

Recently ordered a hat from you. Can't wait to have it in hand.

chenricy · Post by **chenricy** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:30 pm

How Do madame!

IndianaBravo · Post by **IndianaBravo** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:09 am

Welcome aboard!

NoBadDates · Post by **NoBadDates** » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:01 am

Thank you for all your messages of welcome.

I have just posted up start to finish photos of making a Beaver Indy Poet on our Facebook page. Please do have a look!

Enjoy!

Michelle

michael · Post by **michael** » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:27 pm

NoBadDates wrote:Thank you for all your messages of welcome.

I have just posted up start to finish photos of making a Beaver Indy Poet on our Facebook page. Please do have a look!

Enjoy!

Michelle

That was great. Thanks for sharing. Nice work on the bash on that one!

Kladdagh · Post by **Kladdagh** » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:58 am

Welcome and thanks for your work

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:58 pm

Good to have you on board and by the way -- you look great in a fedora $\:D/$ ! Thanks for updating the HJ position! W>

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:26 pm

How do,

Welcome to the gang.
I'm not a big face booker, so can some one post a link, I'd love to see her work.

Croft

darthjones2 · Post by **darthjones2** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:36 pm

Hello, Michelle!

Here is a post I should have probably written here but posted instead on another thread. And it has to do with the fact that I bought Poets from HJ/ Swales as far back as 1986 and he showed me in the shop how the heights were "graduated." That said, I wrote the following post and please forgive any confrontational tone but I was a little frustrated with the excess height of my new HJ and now fear that any "correction" will be too short if these blocks are not graduated.

Can you clarify?

Here is what I wrote:

Here is a question I would love to ask Jack but, considering that I have been out of the loop for so long, someone else here may either know it or know best how to inquire.

As Jack has stated (and as is commonly held in consensus), the original Raiders hat had an open crown at 5.5" tall, right?

And since these original Poet blocks are from a time when hatters were a little more thorough, it stands to reason that the series of blocks involved are "graduated" such that sizes would increase in height by about 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch as circumference grows and perhaps even decrease slightly as circumference shrinks from the 7 1/4 size standard. Common practice according to John Penman and others.

So my question - WHY was my HJ (on supposedly original blocks) over 6" tall at head size 7 5/8 (61 cm) when any set of original blocks would have a less drastic increase in height through various increases in head size?

If HJ is true to brand, they will sell original Poet hats on these ancient blocks and modify them to the IJ franchise as requested.

I get the sense that something is "off."

And yes, I know now that every Raiders hat they sell now is 5.5" tall but I very much suspect that, at large sizes, this will look idiotic if their blocks are not graduated.

Jeez, it's not that hard - whether their story is 100% true or not they have that great block shape - just graduate the blocks the way accomplished hatters would.

Am I missing something?

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:51 pm

I look forward to this answer.
Is there a link to there current site for purchasing?

Croft

cybertrek · Post by **cybertrek** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:14 pm

I emailed them last week about current status and block shapes.
No word back as yet.
Jim

cybertrek · Post by **cybertrek** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:22 am

Hello all,
Here is the response from team Herbert Johnson.

Good afternoon Jim and a Happy New Year to you!

I am the Hatter at Herbert Johnson and I have been passed your inquiry regarding our current hand made Indy Poet models.

We offer two colours of Sable:

Raiders Sable which is the most accurate for ROTLA. We had a vintage Indy poet sent to our felt makers in Portugal to have the dye analysed and matched as closely with current dyes as was possible. This colour is available in both Rabbit and Beaver felt.

Crusade Sable is more of a chocolate tone of brown. Only available in Rabbit fur.

I have attached a pic of them side by side in indoor lighting conditions for your consideration.

We use a 5.5" open crown straight sided block as standard. The blocks we use are modelled off our own vintage Poet blocks. In the early days of Jack we were using his own tall (15cm) blocks. On finding old HJ Poet blocks in our storage we did for a while offer both height options. We feel the 5.5 inch current offering is the most accurate match to the original hat and the most popular with our customers and fans.

We make all our hats to order and turnaround from payment is about 2 weeks. You can request open crown if desired.

I am happy to answer any further queries you may have.

Kind regards

Michelle

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:50 pm

Is there a link to there site?

Croft

cybertrek · Post by **cybertrek** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:43 pm

Just email and Facebook. You can message them there.
Jim

NoBadDates · Post by **NoBadDates** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:43 pm

Happy New Year to you all

Sorry I haven't been on here for a while as the workshop has been rather busy. Plus I have been on a wonderful trip to see 6 original Swales Indy Poets (more later)...

Ok lots of questions that I hope to answer for you by explaining the HJ Reboot origin story:

Herbert Johnson as you know has changed hands a few times and many things have changed for the brand since the times of Richard Swales and Raiders. The hatting industry in the UK has suffered badly.
HJ as you know is currently owned by Swaine Adeney Brigg. The owners and management here have been hoping for some years to move away from being the seller of one Christys made factory hat and back into being hatmakers.
In July 2016 they took on Jack and tasked him with planning and running a reboot. I think you will agree that building a hat department from pretty much nothing is no mean feat. When I arrived in October of that year there was only Jack's own blocks and tools along with a fresh order of felt from Portugal. Jack's blocks were 15cm tall and he has been using them to make Indy hats as I understand for many years previous to joining HJ. Both he and I blocked up and prepped the felt, I trimmed and Jack did all the bashing as our hats began to be sent out. We were in production at last.

At some point early in 2017 Jack was given access to deep storage of various old felt stock and old blocks. Some of these were in a pretty poor state or had been re-purposed for use on pouncing machinery. There was a real mixture of ladies millinery, children's size blocks and lots of tall straight sided blocks. HJ are of course famous for the Poet model of hat. It makes sense that in our surviving blocks we would likely to find some Poets. We blocked on some of them to test them out. We liked them very much.

Now at this point in our production we had received feedback that some customers thought our model was too tall. Jack made the decision to share news about the old blocks and start offering both sets of block heights as options.

Let's talk numbers...Taking the middle block in a set and it's height as the average. So for our Poet that's a 58cm crown which comes in at 13.9cm high which is JUST shy of 5.5 inches. We are talking a difference of about a single centimetre between the Poet and the higher block option Jack was offering. You would notice it if both open crowns were put together. Changing the bash, lowering the pinch can change that and 'lose' that difference. I get asked often to put the pinch at a height specified by the customer. I sometimes have to persuade them that a 3 inch pinch isn't advisable because a) you want your head to fit in the hat without pushing the centre dent back out and b) you are going to start distorting the crown shape and the sides. It just shows that some are afraid of height and require proper advise regarding open crown height and what can be achieved when creasing the crown.

So was it a problem with the blocks or was it that the pinch was being put in too high and the bash could be lowered? As most of you know Brian of Screencapped does some very nice hats. He has made no secret that he uses tall blocks and sometimes uses blocks at 6" tall. I really like his work. Are his blocks too tall? Or is his bashing just excellent?

So where are we now? Jack is no longer here. We have had a new set of blocks made up based off our old Poet blocks. I have had the shape compared to the 6 original un-bashed unworn original Richard Swales Indy Poets that I have had the privilege of inspecting and I am VERY happy our block shape matches them. I am working with customers to create their crease if they ask to work with me when they order. In fact I love working with my customers to get them what they want and see the screen stills they send with their requests. I have been asked to cut brims larger or smaller than standard. Each order can be as customised as you like. After all our hats are totally bespoke to order and hand sewn. You can see our our new product photographs on our new website.

I have been busy viewing many Richard Swales originals and talking with those who have bought from him, written to him, interviewed him and who have worked for LucasFilm. I am planning to share these wonderful stories and original Indy Poet pictures and I even have plans to create a Poet model in honour of Richard Swales in the months to come.

I hope you stay tuned!

Michelle

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:22 pm

Sweet. May I ask that you would share those pics here as well as some of us are facebroke.

NoBadDates · Post by **NoBadDates** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:04 am

Hi Jeremiah

Sure thing. I will share the stories and pictures on here as well as on FB and on Instagram

Michelle

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:16 am

Excellent information! The adventure continues at HJ!

Regards! Michaelson

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:15 am

Interested to see the swales hats.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

darthjones2 · Post by **darthjones2** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:44 pm

Michelle!!!

I do not know if any of this will add to the story but I will try to stay chronological.

Myself, I ordered my first Indy hat from HJ in 1984. And in speaking directly Swales he said that the hats had already changed a little bit from Raiders but that he was very confident I would like what they had. And I did love it. That particular hat is now long gone but I DID make a tracing of the brim onto a piece of paper. I do still have that. In 1986 I visited the shop and Swales switched out my ribbon and gave a me a cleaning and sprucing up. He talked to me about the uneven brim as well in some detail.

He also made me a gray hat which is now owned by a friend but I can get a tracing of that if need be.

Moving on to 1990-91 I DID work at Lucasfilm!!! And while there I was very careful to look through the hats they had and there was nothing that was not a hat from Last Crusade. I even asked around to see if anyone there had "collected" a hat from Raiders but no one seemed to have anything. I would be surprised if anyone you speak to from Lucasfilm has dealt with anything other than the Last Crusade hats but feel free to ask me any questions! I handled a few of the "hero" Last Crusade hats.

Now to 1999, I visited HJ again and met up with Swales who REMEMBERED ME!!! So funny. He even asked about my dad from so many years prior at the shop. Swales was a bit disappointed by some of the changes at HJ, some of the inconsistencies, but he again took my hat and spruced it up for me. It was nice to see him again and our discussion this time was about the very "cruel" pinch in Raiders and how he had the "machine" downstairs which put that crease into the front pinch.

Myself, I have had a number of HJ hats over the years and am also familiar with the Adventurebilt and Penman versions, among others.

And I just sent you my two HJ's from California for repairs. You should be getting that box from me today or tomorrow - I'm the same nutty guy.

But the contours of your Raiders block is just amazing. Love it.

I think I have more details in mind but nothing overly earth shaking I do not think. If anyone has any questions, fire it up!

EDIT: I will say that the Swales brims were not evenly "dimensional." They were pretty wonky and cut at times with scissors he said. Of the two patterns I have here you can see waves in them (uneveness beyond dimensional)

Howard Weinstein · Post by **Howard Weinstein** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:01 pm

Thanks for visiting, Michelle -- We're eager to read/see anything you'd care to share with us!

NoBadDates · Post by **NoBadDates** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:47 am

Thanks for your story DarthJones2! If you have more to tell I would love to add it to my existing information and personal stories of Richard Swales.

Yes the R.Swales dimensional brims I have seen so far have all been rather rough'n'ready and full of character. I look forward to sharing the photos with you all. I have been kindly allowed to borrow one of the hats and will get some professional photos of it done that really show the hat off.

You are also right about the contact at Lucas Film I have been speaking to. Mostly talked about the LC. Your note on it being thus so made me chortle!

In fact if anyone else has a special personal Indy story to tell I would love to hear it and consider it for working alongside the sharing of the Indy Poet images.

Keep it Indy!

Michelle

darthjones2 · Post by **darthjones2** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:58 pm

Hello, Michelle!

I just sent you a lengthy accounting via private message with subject "Richard Swales." Lots more minutiae.

But the thing most folks here do not know is that the brims were all a bit different and noticeably uneven. There is no way to quite duplicate it except on a case by case basis. And yes, Swales did use scissors and sandpaper!!

NoBadDates wrote:Thanks for your story DarthJones2! If you have more to tell I would love to add it to my existing information and personal stories of Richard Swales.

Yes the R.Swales dimensional brims I have seen so far have all been rather rough'n'ready and full of character. I look forward to sharing the photos with you all. I have been kindly allowed to borrow one of the hats and will get some professional photos of it done that really show the hat off.

You are also right about the contact at Lucas Film I have been speaking to. Mostly talked about the LC. Your note on it being thus so made me chortle!

In fact if anyone else has a special personal Indy story to tell I would love to hear it and consider it for working alongside the sharing of the Indy Poet images.

Keep it Indy!

Michelle

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:09 pm

Actually, this has been known for quite a while.

It's even mentioned in the main page write up:

Mr. Swales then topped the hat off by giving it a slight and sloppy dimensional cut to make it seem as though the hat had been on several authentic adventures.

Many of us talked or dealt with Richard back in the 80's and 90's, and this was reported quite a bit.

More than one person reported him whipping out his scissors and cutting brims right in front of the customer!

He was definitely different!

Regard! Michaelson

darthjones2 · Post by **darthjones2** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:35 am

I did not know it was common knowledge! It just cracks me up though - him hittin it with scissors!!!

NoBadDates · Post by **NoBadDates** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:54 am

Hey

Yes I have heard a variety of tales both using scissors and also of a carpet knife type of hooked bladed tool that scored 1/8th inch at a time.
The gentleman who's hats I have been photographing has kept the brim slices off a couple of hats also. I understand the 'blending in' of the cut edges with sandpaper was very roughly done.

What do you guys think about this? I am currently producing my dimensional brims as smooth. I am considering the new model in honour of Richard Swales to be a nod to his style. What do you all think about the dimensional brim on this model being rough and ready 'a la Swales'?

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:26 am

You may have the interest of a few purists, but those I knew who had them weren't very happy at the way they were made.

I'd just offer the 'service', but I don't think having them as a 'standard service' would prove very profitable.

I, for one, wouldn't be interested.

Just my opinion, though.

Regards! Michaelson

NoBadDates · Post by **NoBadDates** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:51 am

That's good to know Michaelson! Exactly the feedback I want.

I would probably develop some kind of nervous tick at the thought of doing anything 'roughly' to be honest!

If it was requested then sure I would offer it.

Feedback most welcome!

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:59 am

Another possibility would be to take a tracing of one of Swales’ dimensionally cut brims, and then carefully replicate that. If you found one of Swales’ that came out particularly well, it might be a selling point for your hats.

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:36 am

I wear my fedoras daily so a "rough cut" brim would feel like more of a costume piece than something I would wear in daily life. I feel the same way about Streets of Cairo Indy fedoras that come from the maker looking completely destroyed. I can appreciate the talent that goes into replicating the movie hat, but I wouldn't find use for it.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

darthjones2 · Post by **darthjones2** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:18 pm

Agreed on this one point - I would only use a tracing from a Swales cut brim. And even then, emphasize the "collectible" side of things perhaps? Some of them were very very wavy. The most wavy of all was a "hero" hat from Temple of Doom I saw.

And to echo Michaelson, I was at first put off by the wavy cut. It is definitely more of a costume hat that way and, of the three Swales hats I ever owned, one brim looked better than the others because of a lacking consistency. Some customers will be struck by the randomness.

One thing you COULD do is have an example in the shop! A customer on site would definitely be able to fairly judge and purchase of course.

I like them smooth now too myself.

NoBadDates · Post by **NoBadDates** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:34 pm

Thank you Indiana Jeff for your feedback.

I actually agree. I am all about the smooooooooth too.

As much as I love the feel and idea of character in a piece of art I also love attention to detail and aspirations of perfection more than randomness. Each and every bow of R.S's that I have seen so far has been very different too so the variables are up the wazoo! I also heard that Richard Swales got quite a few returns so maybe this is why and it isn't a go'er or it needs a different angle. The information is golden however and I am looking forward to collating and sharing with you all.

Not especially interested in doing a 'costume'piece. So the feedback is much appreciated my friends!

Regards
Michelle

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:49 pm

Well, I for one love variety. I'd love to see what a hand-cut brim would look like, and if I were to order a Herbert Johnson, I'll definitely look into getting one done that way. Something about a rough cut brim really makes it sound all the more handmade and that much more personal in my opinion.

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:04 pm

I say do it. I like to see people do things contrary to the opinions of the mass. It’s risky but so are all great things.

AttyOzzy · Post by **AttyOzzy** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:47 pm

Hi All,

I am the proud owner of a beaver Poet that Michelle made for me a few months ago and it is amazing. Its height and color and bash are SA (as to the opening whip- the -gun -out -of the guy's-hand scene) and very comfortable.

In fact, as an aside, until this hat arrived I hadn't realized that my other hats weren't bashed deep enough in the front. I like how the bashed front dents slightly rest on the front of my head so as to prevent my noggin from poking out the top!

I thought long and hard before puling the trigger on this purchase/investment. I was fortunate enough to have saved up some Discover Card cash back and decided to put it towards the HJ Poet. Very glad I did.

I don't know how to post pics - but me and my hat are on the HJ website/FB page somewhere in case you are curious. Complemented by the wearing of a US Wings kangaroo Indy jacket.

Anyway, Michelle if you are following this thread - I love this hat. Thank you!

-Mark in NH

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:11 pm

AttyOzzy wrote:Hi All,

I am the proud owner of a beaver Poet that Michelle made for me a few months ago and it is amazing. Its height and color and bash are SA (as to the opening whip- the -gun -out -of the guy's-hand scene) and very comfortable.

In fact, as an aside, until this hat arrived I hadn't realized that my other hats weren't bashed deep enough in the front. I like how the bashed front dents slightly rest on the front of my head so as to prevent my noggin from poking out the top!

I thought long and hard before puling the trigger on this purchase/investment. I was fortunate enough to have saved up some Discover Card cash back and decided to put it towards the HJ Poet. Very glad I did.

I don't know how to post pics - but me and my hat are on the HJ website/FB page somewhere in case you are curious. Complemented by the wearing of a US Wings kangaroo Indy jacket.

Anyway, Michelle if you are following this thread - I love this hat. Thank you!

-Mark in NH

This post is worthless without pics.

Haha. If you want, send me your pics and I will upload them here for you.