A Tale of two Smith and Wessons.

[Lee Keppler]

Two Smith and Wesson revolvers were used in the filming of Raiders of the Lost Ark. The one used at Elstree studios and in Tunisia was rented from Bapty's in London and will be known as the Bapty gun. The S&W used in Hawaii and for the close up in Indy's home was supplied by Stembridge Gun Rentals of Glendale, California.

The Bapty gun is a S&W Second Model Hand Ejector, in .455 Eley calibre as used by the British Army during The Great War(WWl) when the British needed every handgun they could get chambered in that calibre.
The Bapty gun had the barrel cut from the standard 6 1/2" to a handier 4" length,using a Baughman ramp style front sight. It also featured the gold medallion grips used from 1908 to the mid 1920's.

If we apply this to Indy's "world", most of the British contract S&W revolvers were sold back to the USA after the war as surplus. Many were converted to the easily obtainable, in the US, .45 Colt cartridge. Many of these conversions were performed at the S&W factory which is identifiable by the serial number being re-stamped on the rear of the cut back cylinder. The Bapty gun was used in all scenes except two.

The Stembridge gun is a 1917 S&W which is the Second Model modified for the US Government when they decided that entry into the war was unavoidable. As there were not enough 1911 Colt pistols in inventory, a device called the half moon clip, holding three rounds of .45 ACP, was devised to allow chambering and ejecting the rimless cartridge in a revolver. The 1917 S&W featured a 5 1/2" barrel, the Military version having plain walnut grips, with the later commercial 1917 wearing non-medallion checkered grips, as seen in the "Hand it to Belloq" and the closeup scene. The Commerical Model also had the S&W trademark on the left side of the frame below the cylinder release latch. The Stembridge gun was used in the two above mentioned scenes only.

Both of these fine revolvers were fireable. The Stembridge gun was loaned to me by Syd Stembridge for a magazine ad I did for my company, Special Weapons Products, in 1985. That was when I took the photo that is on the Indygear site(on my coffee table yet!) and before returning it I stopped by the range(couldn't resist) and found that with the requested"high front sight" it shot low and a bit to the left. The "band" on the Stembridge gun is where the tip of the barrel was masked off for cleaning, which includes removing the bluing, so the silver solder would hold the reshaped front sight securely. They just didn't bother to reblue the barrel. The standard front sight was removed from the cut off 1 1/2"of barrel below the curved base, reshaped, a small extention soldered on, and attached to the slight flat that was machined on the top of the barrel.
On a side note, Syd told me their revolver was rented by Lucasfilm for TOD. If you look at the scene where Indy is shooting out of the back window of the car, you can just make out the un-blued "band" on the front of the barrel.

There you have it, "A Tale of Two Smith and Wessons" It was the best of revolvers...but with a S&W there is no "worst of revolvers".

[Michaelson]

...this is as definitive as we're ever going to get regarding the guns. As you've been able to tell in my replies, I have information that, after years of research, tend to begin to cross lines and take on a life of it's own. Lee is the man who KNOWS these guns personally, and I recommend we have this post archieved in the FAQ section. Regards. Michaelson

[FloatinJoe]

Michaelson,

Instead of incorporating it into the FAQ, I'd actually like to see it in the S&W gear section. What I'd really like to see done is have the handgun section be broken down into either three movie pages or four gun pages. I would prefer it be done by gun. Maybe one page with a brief overview stating which guns were used in which films with a single pic, and then link off to a page dedicated to each of the firearms.

Maybe this could be done with other sections as well (i.e. fedoras: show a description of each movie and then have a page for each model that is currently being offered).

I know that this will be a lot of work; John if you're out there reading this, I'm willing to say that my comments have volunteered me to do it. I am more than willing to and would like to make this contribution as a repayment for the hard work that everyone has done and continues to do. Let me know if you'd be interested in this idea or my help.

Mike

[Sergei]

That is one great story. It certainly deserves to be posted at the main IndyGear site. Wow...... So a SWHE2 and a SW-M1917 are the proper guns. All this time, I thought it was one or the other.

-S

[Illinois Troy]

Wow, this really clears up my questions regarding the MK II designation on the S&W H.E. that I've seen so may times. So I was on the right track, then. Thanks so much for posting this and doing the 'fieldwork'.

I agree with Floatin Joe that this should be incorporated into the main guns page at Indygear. The info can not be more precise and definitive.

Thanks again!

- Illinois

[Renderking Fisk]

That's a good question, as to where that info should be kept. The greater question, though... is where to find one of my own.

[Arizona Smith]

Lee's information has been added to the Guns FAQ.

If anyone would care to work on the words for the main Guns page, incorporating Lee's material, I'll include it there.

Regards
Arizona

[Illinois Troy]

Arizona, I sent you a revised page. Check your email.

So then the correct reference for the Bapty is S&W HE Mk II as I've seen in the the old BAFTA and new curio & relic listings and as it is a British issue revolver.

So we have:

1. S&W HE Mk II

and

2. S&W HE 2 M1917

Is this right?
- Illinois

[Lee Keppler]

To be picky, it's Smith & Wesson Second model Hand Ejector, and Smith & Wesson Model 1917. I will settle for S&W HE2 and S&W 1917 however.

[Illinois Troy]

I will settle for S&W HE2 and S&W 1917 however.

S&W HE2 (Bapty) and S&W 1917 (Stembridge) , o.k., got it, but wouldn't the British Bapty make be designated as a Hand Ejector Mk II? I'm still a little fuzzy on that one. I've seen them designated as such and you're the man wth the handgun knowlege so I thought I'd ask.

That must have been pretty great firing off one of the original Raiders handguns, wow! That was a great post. I wish some of our other pursuits here could be as clear cut .

- Illinois

[agent5]

Thank you, Dr.Brody. Great stuff! GOLD!

[Imahomer]

Thanks Lee. After our phone conversation and now reading that, I think it's finally clear in my mind.

Mike

[Mystique]

Lee is the Man! I got to meet him at one of his shows, and boy did
he know his stuff!!!

[Magnum]

This is probably one of the top ten most informative posts ever in the history of Indy Gear and Indy Fan. Thank you so much Lee for sharing this info with us. My hat is off to you!

[schwammy]

Lee, would you care to comment on which revolver you used to make your resin gun? I'm guessing it was a third gun, since the resin model has the ramp sight, but the S&W you shot (both photographically and literally) was the Stembridge gun, with the band and high front sight. Correct?

Did both guns have identical lanyard rings?

[Lee Keppler]

The revolver I had the mold made from was my S&W Second Model HE in .455 that had been factory converted to .45 Colt. I then had it "replicated" into the "Bapty's" configuration, with the ramp front sight. I decided to offer the Bapty version because it got the most screen time, and, yes the lanyard loops are standard S&W on both guns

[Minnesota Jones]

Thanks Dr Brody! You ARE our gun guru and this post shows that. I also agree with putting this on the main site's gun page. I'm glad it's on the Q&A thou.... This needs to be set in stone!

Great info! I'd tip my Keppler fedora off to ya, but I'm at work at it's at home , so I'll pretend.....here goes...

"tip"