SA color RotLA

[Jeremiah]

Thanks. Ha.

[Indiana Jeff]

Your picking over wording. You can use the original pattern and adjust it to make it fit the average joe and even make improvements. It's still using the original pattern but isn't SA anymore.

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree on that one. The language used is very important to the product being sold.

Heck, this whole hobby is built on the nuances of changes to the hats or jackets from one movie to the next. Once a jacket or hat no longer looks like what is seen on screen (and I'm talking tangibles like side strap placement, not color variations that are an artifact of filming) then the maker cannot claim to be using "original patterns". They are using "altered patterns" and that makes a difference.

Here's one of Peter's COAs.



When he uses language "hand cut from original patterns" that doesn't leave any room for interpretation of "improvements made to original patterns to better fit the average joe."

I have a hat analogy to get us closer to the topic at hand.

If Steve started making CS fedoras using his "original patterns", but with a 4" tapered crown and 2" brim because that's what the average joe is wearing these days, that "CS" hat is no longer the "original pattern" regardless of what Steve might call it.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[BendingOak]

Jeff, The jacket Wested was making for years does in fact look like a Raiders jacket. Some of the details are different because Peter made some improvements. The pattern is the same just some of the details are different.

[RedburnIV]

Wow! Penman get off your pedestal already. So argumentative and pompous. Like you were personally on set for all 4 movies.


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[shade88]

Honestly, I do not see John as "argumentative and pompous." He is sharing his opinion on two topics in this thread: The color of the Raiders fedora (which everyone else has been allowed to share their opinion), and the legal wording of the C.O.A. from Wested regarding the jacket pattern.

It does kind of strike me funny that, on a website devoted to research and debating Indy's famous gear, that someone, who happens to be one of the best hatters in the world (in my opinion), is attacked for doing so.

Now, I am not sure I fully agree with his stance on the latter topic, since I haven't read through it fully, but I have to agree with John that you cannot guess the color based off of either film or behind the scenes footage or pictures. That being said, I have one of John's Raiders beaver fedoras, and an ABL on the way, also, while not seeing one in person, Diego's hats also look awesome! I bet we can all agree that, whichever vendor you favor, it is amazing that we have so many options for "The Hat."

[BendingOak]

Wow! Penman get off your pedestal already. So argumentative and pompous. Like you were personally on set for all 4 movies.


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Half the time I'm asked for my opinion and get slammed for giving that opinion.


The truth of the matter my opinion does mean more then yours. Now I'm tired of this thread so I'm out. Everyone you know who to thank.


Shade88, thank you.

[Indiana Jeff]

Wow! Penman get off your pedestal already. So argumentative and pompous. Like you were personally on set for all 4 movies.


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Easy there. No need to be insulting/inflammatory.

Jeff, The jacket Wested was making for years does in fact look like a Raiders jacket. Some of the details are different because Peter made some improvements. The pattern is the same just some of the details are different.

John and I will have to agree to disagree. If an original pattern is being followed, details will not change.

That's the difference between this



and this



Ford could say both cars are made using "original patterns" and there are elements that are similar and I would call both of these cars Shelby, but to me using original patterns means the 1st item made is identical to the 1,000.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Jeremiah]

Hey,
All I wanted out of this thread was a red fedora

J'king of course.

[Indiana Jeff]

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Jeremiah]

Ha. Now that has a red tint.

[Indiego Jones]

Thanks for the kind words, shade!

Back to the thread topic, on our pursuit for the perfect Raiders felt, we find out that the dying of the felt is as important as the composition of it, for the final result. I mean in terms of color perception.
The fur blend (and the type: rabbit, hare, etc) affects the reflection of the light on it, artificial or natural.

So, many things must be taken into account to achieve the desire result.

We always wanted to replicate the exact same original Raiders felt, in terms of color, undertones, texture, floppyness, thickness, quality, etc.
Never wanted to improve it, just to have the very same thing.

Cheers.-

[RedburnIV]

Wow! Penman get off your pedestal already. So argumentative and pompous. Like you were personally on set for all 4 movies.


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Half the time I'm asked for my opinion and get slammed for giving that opinion.


The truth of the matter my opinion does mean more then yours. Now I'm tired of this thread so I'm out. Everyone you know who to thank.


Shade88, thank you.

Who says that!? I don't care if you're Lucas himself, to say your opinion matters more than someone else's is absolutely ridiculous and just proving my point. You're obviously a proud man, posting every raiders hat on your Instagram. Honestly there's not a single hat of yours that I would even consider slightly screen accurate and believe me God of the almighty Indy, I'm not the only one with that opinion.

I hope people see the nature of your character and decide to buy someone else's hat.


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[shade88]

Wow! Penman get off your pedestal already. So argumentative and pompous. Like you were personally on set for all 4 movies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Half the time I'm asked for my opinion and get slammed for giving that opinion.


The truth of the matter my opinion does mean more then yours. Now I'm tired of this thread so I'm out. Everyone you know who to thank.


Shade88, thank you.

Who says that!? I don't care if you're Lucas himself, to say your opinion matters more than someone else's is absolutely ridiculous and just proving my point. You're obviously a proud man, posting every raiders hat on your Instagram. Honestly there's not a single hat of yours that I would even consider slightly screen accurate and believe me God of the almighty Indy, I'm not the only one with that opinion.

I hope people see the nature of your character and decide to buy someone else's hat.


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Honestly, I bought my hats from John because of the passion he puts into the discussions of the the Raiders hat.

To be honest, you're not helping your argument by personally insulting both John's character and work.

Also, it appears that John's hats were good enough for Steve Delk when John asked for his opinion several years ago, and John has only improved since then. Considering that Steve is leaving the legacy of the company he started, Adventurebilt (the guys who made Indy's hat in the recent installment), to Marc, David, and John; I think that would indicate that John's hats are well made and pretty darn screen accurate.

Now, I am sure you and a few naysayers disagree, but I would say that this particular opinion is held only by a few. Also, have you ever actually talked to John (over the phone or in person)? John is one of the nicest guys I have ever talked with.

[Texan Scott]

To me, the Christy "sable" and "cork" colors matched the movie hat better than anything I have seen, but that was a few years ago, and they do not have the options that they used to. It's not bullet proof felt either.

Like the jacket, a fedora is not really a Raiders hat right out of the box, it becomes one to a certain extent. Takes some wear and manipulation. Thing that you want to do is as soon as you get your new hat, throw it down and stomp on it, the way Johnny hat-mister does.

[Jeremiah]

Wow! Penman get off your pedestal already. So argumentative and pompous. Like you were personally on set for all 4 movies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Half the time I'm asked for my opinion and get slammed for giving that opinion.


The truth of the matter my opinion does mean more then yours. Now I'm tired of this thread so I'm out. Everyone you know who to thank.


Shade88, thank you.

Who says that!? I don't care if you're Lucas himself, to say your opinion matters more than someone else's is absolutely ridiculous and just proving my point. You're obviously a proud man, posting every raiders hat on your Instagram. Honestly there's not a single hat of yours that I would even consider slightly screen accurate and believe me God of the almighty Indy, I'm not the only one with that opinion.

I hope people see the nature of your character and decide to buy someone else's hat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Honestly, I bought my hats from John because of the passion he puts into the discussions of the the Raiders hat.

To be honest, you're not helping your argument by personally insulting both John's character and work.

Also, it appears that John's hats were good enough for Steve Delk when John asked for his opinion several years ago, and John has only improved since then. Considering that Steve is leaving the legacy of the company he started, Adventurebilt (the guys who made Indy's hat in the recent installment), to Marc, David, and John; I think that would indicate that John's hats are well made and pretty darn screen accurate.

Now, I am sure you and a few naysayers disagree, but I would say that this particular opinion is held only by a few. Also, have you ever actually talked to John (over the phone or in person)? John is one of the nicest guys I have ever talked with.

He sure is. Just remember there is a time difference. Sorry about that John.
John is the first to say his hats are made to reflect the quality of a Hat made in the time period of the Indy films. He even will tell you they are as SA as possible without sacrificing quality. The ABL is pretty spot on in SA to me.

[Indiana Jeff]

Who says that!? I don't care if you're Lucas himself, to say your opinion matters more than someone else's is absolutely ridiculous and just proving my point. You're obviously a proud man, posting every raiders hat on your Instagram. Honestly there's not a single hat of yours that I would even consider slightly screen accurate and believe me God of the almighty Indy, I'm not the only one with that opinion.

I hope people see the nature of your character and decide to buy someone else's hat.


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Enough.

This thread started with a member asking about the color undertones of his hat.

It evolved into questions about the difficulty in reproducing hats and jackets we see on screen. And a disagreement between John and myself that's a matter of opinions and interpretation.

Now we're calling member's character into question.


No more.




Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Cajunkraut]

That's why you can go crazy trying to replicate something you see in a photo. Because unless you know what lighting, filtration, film and exposures were used (and in some cases how old the film was, how it was stored and how it was processed,) trying to replicate the natural color of a physical object based on what you see in the photo is like trying to pin the tail on the right donkey out of a thousand virtually identical donkeys.

If there's a silver lining in this, it's that one can pick a screencap or movie still with the color(s) of their choice to replicate a specific look. I like to think of it as an acceptable range of scene dependent shades of color. After all, movie makers adjust lighting and filters to project what's in their mind's eye on screen, don't they?

The "SA" color of the Raiders hat, holster, jacket and whip are all great examples. I build my gear around the darker palettes (think Well of the Souls stills) because they're just more pleasing to my eye.

[Indiana Jeff]

In fact, the point of the original post has been answered.


End of discussion.




Regards,

Indiana Jeff