Who makes the most accurate trousers?

4505marcel · Post by **4505marcel** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:11 pm

Ive already lost 17lb this year in weight and now my trousers are huge. I have the wested trouser at present, so now need a new pair ideally as mine look baggy.
Who makes the most accurate replicas of the indy trouser, as I know belt eyelet positions are in correct with the westeds?

TenuredProfessor · Post by **TenuredProfessor** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:38 pm

Since Noel Howard isn't around anymore, you're best bet are Todd's Pants. I have three pairs and they are as perfect Raiders pants that you can get. The current selection of sizes is limited due to popularity, and be sure to measure your actual waist size, and not go by other pairs of pants when ordering. I HIGHLY recommend these pants.... I'm even wearing a pair right now at work!!

I noticed Mitch had a couple pairs in the bazaar for sale...might want to check those out

fifthchamber · Post by **fifthchamber** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:00 pm

Todd, absolutely......Nothing else I own comes close to them...They're a fair mile above nearly all the others in terms of design, fabric and cost....(The belt loops are a touch too large...Just a touch...But it's not a huge issue, and if worried about can be altered by a decent tailor easily enough..)

Entirely right....Todd's all the way.

jlhampton · Post by **jlhampton** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:01 pm

I hate to say it, but if you are dropping the lbs., Todd's might not be the "best" fitting pants. First, I owned a pair of Todd's when they first became available and I loved every detail except the fit. Due to the built-in, excessive rise these pants feel more baggy than they should. I mean, when I can feel the skin of my thighs touching, then there's too much room in those droopy drawers. I would love to have a tailored pair using that material, but i had to settle with a tailored pair in another vendor's material and they are the best fitting pants I ever owned. Well worth the extra $$$. Unfortunately I think Todd's pants would just seem baggy, still even if you're going down in sizes. With a little nip and tuck here and there in the pattern, they would be perfect, especially for the price.

jlhampton

fifthchamber · Post by **fifthchamber** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:12 pm

Heheh...

The problem you're going to have there is that the trousers in Raiders weren't the "best fitting" trousers......If you want decent fitting trousers, then I wouldn't recommend getting a pair based on the Raiders fit....Or going to Magnoli and getting a pair that fits, has the design spot on, but is built to your measurements and can be tailored in to fit what you need....
The cut of Todds trousers is what I see in the film....Loose, baggy crotch area, wider leg, relaxed fit...And if that's what you're after, then Todds is the best....
But yeah, if you want a pair of trousers that are fitted for you better, then you'll not get that looking for a Raiders fit...Cause, that's not "Raiders fit"...

Agreed...

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:34 am

I would also recommend Todd's. His pattern is more of a classic fit with the longer rise. I tend to wear them higher than other 'modern' fit, not to my armpit, but more at my belly button than other trousers.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

4505marcel · Post by **4505marcel** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:32 am

I noticed that with my Wested's they sit high and are baggy around the crotch, but they are far too loose on the waist now an my belt has to pull everything in.
Does no one rate wested's pants now then?

ChrisMD · Post by **ChrisMD** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:00 am

If Harrison's pants were a perfect tailored fit he wouldnt have gotten away with any if the stunts he pulled in the movie. He woulda been splitting the allllll day.

donovan · Post by **donovan** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:07 am

Hi,i own three pairs of westeds and imo as an indy trouser you cant go far wrong.they may not be entirely screen accurate but they fit and look great.i would like to try a pair of todds,as they've had great reviews,but as like you living in the uk i would be gambling on the size to order and pay shipping and custom charges.

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:17 pm

I've owned 3 pairs of Westeds when I first began this hobby and my biggest problem with them (aside from belt loop placement) was that they tapered too much at the end and didn't go over my Aldens like Indy's do. I switched to a pair of Magnoli's and the only thing I would've liked better (other than price) is the back pocket shape. Then I went to Todd's and was finally satisfied. Hope some of this helps.

Kyle

TenuredProfessor · Post by **TenuredProfessor** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:43 pm

Agreed about the Westeds, Knibs...They make better LC pants than Raiders, IMO. The material is fine, but the taper in the ankle always bothered me. Also, Todd's pants have a reinforced waistband, and just feel more substantially constructed. The Westeds have no extra material in the waist, making them a little bunchy if they are at all slightly big in the waist. One thing Indy pants cannot be is tight, because you lose that drape.

4505marcel · Post by **4505marcel** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:03 am

Are the Tods ones machine washable, or are they wool dry clean like the Wested's?

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:30 am

Todd's are dry clean only.

I will add that the pair of Wested I owned briefly I found to be too tapered for my taste. Not just as Indy trousers, but in general.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

fifthchamber · Post by **fifthchamber** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:49 am

Hmmmm...

My Wested's have no noticeable taper at all...They aren't quite as baggy as the Todds, but they are at the very least straight legged...There's not a taper on them...Maybe the leg design was changed? Mine were ordered about 2 years ago?

While they're fine and close enough, the details are off and the colour is closer to what I see in the Last Crusade, which isn't a bad thing at all, but I'm more of a fan of the Raiders look..So Todds get my vote..

Wested's design isn't bad, but it's not "right" either...And that much of a difference is what brought us all here in search of the slightly more accurate ones..Heh..Todds hit it.

donovan · Post by **donovan** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:56 pm

The pair of westeds i got about six months ago have hardly any taper and also have a rubber strip fitted on the inside waist band.

indyexpat · Post by **indyexpat** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:09 pm

I am very impressed with the Todd trousers, material, cut and attention to authenticity. Mine didn't fit me initially but thats me not the pants. There is plenty of fabric for adjustments and well priced. Todd does a great job generally I'm pleased to say. The best pants and boots in my opinion. Love the shirts too but not the color.. little bleach does the trick ;-)

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:34 pm

You guys are killing me! This trouser fit discussion made me re-evaluate the fit of my own Indy pants, and I discovered that I've (apparently) grown taller in the past 15 years! When I purchased my Noel Howards back in 1998, I took the unfinished pants to the AAFES tailor, along with my Aldens and a photo of Harrison from Last Crusade. We fit the pants over the boots and pinned up the excess material to achieve the same baggy effect. When I tried on a pair today, I realized that the excess bagginess is gone, giving the pants a normal straight-leg fit. To confirm this, I dug up an old photo from back in the day, and the material is noticeably more gathered at the ankles. Since Wested is the LC model and I'm a Crusader, not to mention a stickler for exclusively patronizing original film vendors (sorry, but I just can't buy Indy gear from a guy named Todd), I'll go the Wested route and have my tailor hem the legs with two extra inches of material with the assurance that I can't possibly grow any taller.

UPDATE: Received my first pair of Wested pants today!

They are fantastic! They look and feel almost exactly like the original Noel Howard / M.B.A. Indy pants, however I disagree that the color is spot-on for LC pants. It's actually closer to the dark brown Raiders material than the beige LC color:

Maybe the color will appear different outdoors in natural sunlight. Either way, Wested hit this one out of the park! They are truly the rightful heir to the Noel Howard Indywear legacy!

MARQ · Post by **MARQ** » Sat May 25, 2013 3:03 pm

Whipwarrior..You have to post some "worn in" images of the Wested Trousers. I´ve wondered about them,your comment got my hopes up again!!

What size are they?

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sat May 25, 2013 5:18 pm

Actually, I had a few pics taken recently with the Wested pants and my new Garrison-modded Indy Stetson. Here's the best one:

Extra-large image: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8253/8831 ... 2f0b_o.jpg

The Wested pants are comfortably loose, with a lot of 'body' that swishes around as I walk. Prior to ordering, I was concerned about the horrible taper that everybody spoke of, but I think it was over-exaggerated (or Wested altered their patterns). Regardless, these pants definitely have the Indy vibe!

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sat May 25, 2013 6:09 pm

whipwarrior wrote:

Maybe the color will appear different outdoors in natural sunlight. Either way, Wested hit this one out of the park! They are truly the rightful heir to the Noel Howard Indywear legacy!

Great comparison photo summed up in one pic, WW.! Wested's trousers are very comfortable, and look very much the part.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sat May 25, 2013 6:11 pm

Agreed! Like I said, they're the closest thing I've seen to Noel Howard's Indy pants. If Wested ever decided to make their pants in LC reddish-beige, I'd be all over it.

MARQ · Post by **MARQ** » Sun May 26, 2013 3:18 am

Those Wested pants look better than Todds version!

I had a brief encounter with them and the crotch-area was too low.What I can tell from the pictures, the cut seems a lot more "modern" to me.

No taper at the hems what´s great and the color is spot-on.

I gotta get me a pair in size 36 !! $\:D/$ BTW is the crotch low..opinions WW,Texan..somebody?

Oh yes and can you give a pic of the pocket flaps..?

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun May 26, 2013 9:41 am

Check out my first post in this thread complete with photos and comparison, etc: http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=53379" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I found Wested's pants to be very comfortable and low rise, more LC oriented.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sun May 26, 2013 9:46 am

No, the crotch / seat fit is like a pair of modern trousers, or Levis 550 relaxed fit jeans. Very comfortable.

MARQ · Post by **MARQ** » Sun May 26, 2013 10:01 am

No, the crotch / seat fit is like a pair of modern trousers, or Levis 550 relaxed fit jeans. Very comfortable.

Now that´s very promising! I had to google the fit!

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed May 29, 2013 5:06 pm

I had to make sure I had m terminology correct. According to the Wik: Low-rise jeans, worn by both men and women, are jeans intended to sit low on, or below, the hips.

Wested's version of cavalry twill sit lower, meaning you cannot pull them up around the mid-portion of your stomach, like in yesteryear. And it looks like the real deal fit much the same way:

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3079834880/tt0097576" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jlhampton · Post by **jlhampton** » Wed May 29, 2013 9:49 pm

I just got my Wested's about a month ago and the only issue I had was sizing. It was stated in other threads that in ordering size, you should order your true waist size and I did just that. What I got were pants about four inches too big in the waist. I had to have them taken in and of course hemmed at the cuffs. Due to the over sized dimensions the over all fit is on the loose side, but are still wearable. Fortunately the rise isn't an issue. They fit pretty good there. If I had to do it over again, I would contact Wested and have them hand measure a pair to my waist size before sending rather than just going by the number on the tag. Everything else was good and no taper in the leg! Hope this helps.

jlhampton

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Wed May 29, 2013 10:30 pm

Weird. I ordered my actual waist size and they fit perfect, right out of the box.

TenuredProfessor · Post by **TenuredProfessor** » Thu May 30, 2013 11:07 am

I think Todd's sizing threw us all off with regards to ordering pants

With Todd's, you have to actually measure your waist since pants sizes aren't accurate. For example, I wear 34" pants size and my waist measures 36". So I ordered "36 Todd's pants. With Wested, it's not that complicated. I just ordered my normal "34 size. Sorry to you jhampton if we didn't make that clear

Size and measurement are two different things, and thanks to Todd, we are all a little fatter than we thought!

jlhampton · Post by **jlhampton** » Thu May 30, 2013 9:45 pm

Oh, it was clear. Someone had stated some time ago, when ordering Wested's , order the size that matches your true waist size, same as Todd's. No big deal. They fit now, however I had to spend an extra $20 to have it done.

jlhampton

car96 · Post by **car96** » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:06 pm

Hey ya'll...first post here.

I really want the Todd's pants, but they are out of all of them in waist sizes 38-40.

Will he be getting any more in stock in those larger sizes?

Thanks.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:57 am

jlhampton wrote:I just got my Wested's about a month ago and the only issue I had was sizing. It was stated in other threads that in ordering size, you should order your true waist size and I did just that. What I got were pants about four inches too big in the waist. I had to have them taken in and of course hemmed at the cuffs. Due to the over sized dimensions the over all fit is on the loose side, but are still wearable. Fortunately the rise isn't an issue. They fit pretty good there. If I had to do it over again, I would contact Wested and have them hand measure a pair to my waist size before sending rather than just going by the number on the tag. Everything else was good and no taper in the leg! Hope this helps.

jlhampton

That's weird. They might have been mislabelled.

Unfortunately trouser sizes are so hard to by remotely. Jeans for instance, I usually wear a 34 waist, but that can vary wildly between makers and sometimes have to go down to a 32 because of the fit, or because of 'vanity sizing'.

What I found with Wested were the 34 fit, but are snug at the waist, so I would say, if you are sure you are really a 34 go with that but expect to do a few crunches or order one size up.... after all you have 2 belts!

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:27 am

Anybody know a place that will make a pair of custom Indy pants? I've managed to source the exact shade of tan cavalry twill wool that Noel Howard used for his LC pants, but Wested said that they do not make custom order pants. I need to find out if this project is feasible before I spend the $$$ on a bolt of high-quality British fabric. Alternately, I would think that any competent tailor could duplicate a garment by studying the original. Has anybody approached a tailor with such a request?

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:37 am

I've got a million local tailors here that do just that. Take in a current article of clothing and they can reproduce it exactly. I would think you'd be able to find someone.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:36 pm

UPDATE: I bought 4 yards of Arthur Harrison tan cavalry twill wool and some vintage WW2 British army buttons that match the ones on Noel Howard's Indy pants. The new fabric isn't quite the exact shade of the LC pants as I'd thought, but it's close enough. Meanwhile, a friend in England is supplying me with the same type of hook and bar clasp used on the fly closure, and I've also got the beige material for the inner waist trim. The only problem I've encountered is the absolute lack of a custom tailor. All the shops in my city only do alterations. They don't make clothing. Now I'm back to square one.

Hi-res pics of the material:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5490/1142 ... 5364_o.jpg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3741/1142 ... da64_o.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7336/1142 ... 37ce_o.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2831/1142 ... b00c_o.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5538/1142 ... de0c_o.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7354/1142 ... e0fc_o.jpg

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:27 am

Who makes the most accurate Indy trousers? It’s all about the silhouette. Besides the celebrated fedora, Indy’s pants are the most distinguishing feature of his classic profile: loose, rumpled, and baggy; an image most exemplified in the famous Raiders production still of Indy posing stoically with his bullwhip on the Well of Souls set. The khaki pants flow down from his belted waist in a cascade of drapes and folds, perfectly combining the vintage aesthetic of elegant sloppiness suited to a 1930’s-era archaeologist.

Well, I can say without a doubt that Magnoli’s Indy adventure pants reflect this look with 100% accuracy. Guaranteed.

Back in the early days of the hobby, I had eagerly collected four sets of Indy clothes from M.B.A. Ltd., naively thinking they would be suitable for the rest of my life. However, I didn’t have the foresight to realize that I might someday outgrow them! My first course of action was to seek out the best alternative: Wested Leather, which inherited the Indy clothing line after Noel Howard passed away.

All the reviews universally praised Wested’s pants as the best option for the Last Crusade look, which I was striving to achieve. What I received, however, was a bit different. The material and workmanship was on-par with Noel’s pants, but the details were off. The color was too dark for LC, the belt loops were misplaced on a sewn-over waistband, and (critically) the legs were too tapered. The pants were very nice, but my satisfaction was only temporary.

I wanted genuine LC pants, determined to have them once and for all. The final alternative was to have a new pair of Indy pants copied from my original ones. I sourced and purchased 4 yards of tan cavalry twill wool and some vintage WW2 British army buttons that matched Noel Howard’s pants. Sticking with original Indy suppliers, I asked Wested if they would be willing to make a new pair of pants using the material I had, but Peter said they don’t make custom pants, only jackets. My search for a local tailor yielded only alteration shops which didn’t make clothing. I was running out of options fast.

Then I recalled Indy Magnoli, a pillar of the original Indiana Jones web community from the beginning. Tony was one of the old guards, along with the likes of Michaelson, Lee Keppler, and Micah Johnson. If there was anyone with the attention to detail to achieve the screen accuracy required by discerning Indy gear aficionados, it was Tony. When I explained my situation, he gladly agreed to accept the job. I mailed off my fabric and materials, custom specs and reference photos for his tailor, and I crossed my fingers for luck.

My goal was to have the M.B.A. pants copied exactly, with a few exceptions. First, I wanted the back pocket flaps entirely made of cavalry twill (one of the Wested features that I *did* admire), unlike the fabric underside facing on the NH flaps. Second, I absolutely insisted that the inner pocket volume matched the original Noel Howard pants, ideal for my larger hands, while Wested’s shallow pockets were too restrictive for comfort. Finally, the new pants must have the proper excess length and gather around the boots. Magnoli also offered the 4-inch military hem, which I’d never had on a pair or Indy pants before, and quickly agreed that it would be the perfect screen-accurate detail to finish the legs.

Months passed, but last week my patience was rewarded when the box arrived from Magnoli Clothiers. It was a home run. The details are spot-on to the original M.B.A. pants (except the shorter inner fly clasp, but that’s just splitting hairs). The measurements are perfect, the fit is great, and the thinner cavalry twill is much more comfortable than the heavy fabric used by Noel Howard. The material breathes easier and feels lighter and airier, much better suited to the climate of the Deep South where I live. Despite the weight of Noel’s original pants, I’m convinced the film-used pants were made of thinner twill. You can really see how the fabric drapes and flows during the action scenes when Indy is running around and fighting. It doesn’t appear as thick or heavy.

Bottom line: these really are the perfect Last Crusade pants! I am tremendously pleased with them. Everything is great: comfort, cut, attention to detail, and quality craftsmanship are positively outstanding. Tony really went the extra mile on these custom-spec Indy pants. Not even Wested, our Indy tailor extraordinaire, would accept my own supplied fabric to make a pair of LC pants. But Magnoli did, and that is why he is unequivocally the king of Indy clothing in the world.

But the pictures really speak for themselves:

Hi-res: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3886/143 ... 370d_o.jpg

Hi-res: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5475/143 ... e364_o.jpg

Hi-res: https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2895/141 ... a299_o.jpg

Hi-res: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3866/141 ... defe_o.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2896/143 ... 0505_o.jpg

donovan · Post by **donovan** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:16 pm

Congrats on an awsome pair of pants,they look superb. How do they look on? Please post a pic if poss.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:57 pm

whipwarrior wrote:Tony was one of the old guards, along with the likes of Michaelson, Lee Keppler, and Micah Johnson.

Dale, just wanted to say I appreciate the 'shout out'.

Regard! Michaelson

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:19 pm

Michaelson: You deserve it, old friend. All of you, in fact. You've been the Olympian gods of the IndyGear pantheon from the very beginning. Our wonderful community wouldn't exist without you guys. I tip my fedora to all of the Indy administrators, past and present.

Donovan: They look fantastic! Yesterday I finally steam ironed the creases out of the legs, and it makes a world of difference! I'll post full-gear pics once I get my new Alden 405 chromexcel boots. They're supposed to be making my size in the latest production run, due sometime this month. I would take pictures now, except my vintage brick red Aldens look way too red with the new Magnoli pants. The color discrepancy is really unflattering, but I promise to post some great hi-res pictures when the proper footwear arrives!

donovan · Post by **donovan** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:10 pm

Ok,thanks - look forward to it.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:04 pm

Me too!

micsteam · Post by **micsteam** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:13 pm

I recently purchased a pair of Todd's trousers and I think they are what everybody says they are ... the correct color, right design but for me way too baggy in the crotch. Lol !!! No it's not that I'm lacking but the fact is I'm 5'7" and the length on this was 33" that I brought up to 30" with my local taylor and when I got it back it wasn't too bad in the length as it was in the crotch, it looks like I took a 20 lbs. load in my shorts !!! I'm going to talk to my taylor and see if we can rectify this. I'm not taking away from Todd's product, it's just a general fitment issue. You cannot order from Todd's Indiana Jones trousers/pants with your American jeans or pants size. You have to measure your actual waist, I've been a size 32 since the end of HS but I've had a pair of Todd's (used) and way more like a size 26 !!! You need your true measurements and then go accordingly. Hope this helps, good luck guys.

ThatManFromRio · Post by **ThatManFromRio** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:13 am

whipwarrior wrote:... I promise to post some great hi-res pictures when the proper footwear arrives!

Most expected !

Ride Guy · Post by **Ride Guy** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:13 pm

Can anyone comment on the length. I prefer a full break and the 31" inseam is almost long enough, I am curious if there is enough material to let it about an inch or two. The description on Todd's site says

Other details that are true to the original trousers are 4" military hems,

. Does this mean that a little material could be used to lengthen? Thanks for the intel.

Ride Guy

ThatManFromRio · Post by **ThatManFromRio** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:38 am

Military hem is usually achieved by folding in the excess material with an angle so that the hem is lower on the back ( heel ). The excess material is then cut , turned upside down and sewed back : if properly done you have trouser's cuffs that seat perfectly on your shoes and follow your moves without being caught on the rear of your ankle boots.
Trousers hemmed that way could probably be shorten only , but maybe Todd's trousers' hem is made differently.
Hope this helps.