NH Shirts, An Investment?

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:16 am

Although Peter is SO kind to take up the sword, so to speak, and make the Indy shirts for us (Bless that man) and there are other screen-accurate shirts like Dan's out there, since MBA has gone 'the way of the Dodo', does anybody here feel that, in time, NH Gear will increase in value as collector's items?

We are talking about the guy who made them for HF and the movies, right? You can have as many accurate copies as you like, but MBA gear is THE authentic gear.

The consensus in determining the value of an item is simply "how much would someone buy it for?". I wasn't planning on selling any of my MBA gear any time soon, but this revelation may prompt me to take better care of what I have, in terms of wearing a Wested shirt, and only displaying the NH. I still have a Large NH Raiders shirt, unopened in it's original packaging. It's never been out of the plastic, and I have to wonder if an unopened, never worn, PERFECT condition NH Raiders shirt will have value one day, or if the repro's will effect the collectibility and value of these items.

Again, I'm not looking to 'cash in', but simply value the collection that I have.

Thoughts??

Post by **Mike** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:45 am

This week on Antiques Roadshow...

Mike

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:59 am

I too have a couple of sets of the trousers and shirt from NH. One set is still in the plastic, a virgin set you might say. I bought 3 sets right before he went out of business. I may sit on it for awhile to see what it would fetch on ebay, or I may just sell it at cost to one of our larger bodied fans. The shirt is an XL, the pants are 38s. I ordered larger than my size to make sure they would fit. While a little loose, you can always have em' shrunk by a seamtress, but it is hard to stretch em' out.

Fedora

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:05 am

Fedora wrote:I too have a couple of sets of the trousers and shirt from NH. One set is still in the plastic, a virgin set you might say. I bought 3 sets right before he went out of business. I may sit on it for awhile to see what it would fetch on ebay, or I may just sell it at cost to one of our larger bodied fans. The shirt is an XL, the pants are 38s. I ordered larger than my size to make sure they would fit. While a little loose, you can always have em' shrunk by a seamtress, but it is hard to stretch em' out. Fedora

38 inch pants you say? You may have a potential customer on your hands already

-GCR

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:19 am

Personal observation here… I never view clothes as an “Investment”. Clothes are to be worn and used. The only article I have that’s “For Display purposes Only” is the Very first Akubra Federation Deluxe Hat's Direct made for the COW-Committee to approve and inspect that Steve The Fedora Blockmaster handed down to me.

In this household, there’s no such thing as keeping something in the original plastic for a future investment. There’s going to be a time when I’m in a hurry to get to a special event, nothing’s washed and I only have five minutes. As I have done in the past, I’ve said: “What the Heck” and just taken that shirt that I was “saving” and worn it.

Wow… wouldn’t it be nice to mark this special occasion by wearing that “Collectors Item”?

All it takes is one spill and it’s no longer a collector’s item… its now clothes.

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:30 am

I gotta agree with Ren, to a degree...

When I first got my NH shirt, I wore the heck out of it...I wore it with a tie to the office, I wore it on short hikes, I wore as a normal shirt on the weekends, basically, I wore it like anything else. Now, all these years later, I am glad I did, the color of the shirt is much more screen accurate due to all the washing and wearing...of course, once I heard MBA went away, I decided to retire the NH shirt from duty. It is my only one, and NOW I don't want to risk anything happeneing to it...it cannot be replaced. Now that Wested is selling the shirt, I'll have to pick up a few of them, so I don't have the same problem

But my NH is enjoying retirement on a hanger on the back of the door to my study.

-GCR

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:02 am

I never view clothes as an “Investment”. Clothes are to be worn and used.

I, too, have to agree with Ren on this one. While I look at some of my clothes (especially my true vintage stuff) as an investment, I see it as an investment to be worn. I own a great double breasted tux from the 30's that I love to wear out on formal occassions and I always get compliments on how sharp I look in it. What good is it in my closet where no one can see and appreciate it?

I hope to make an investment in some good Indy trousers and a truer Indy hat (amoung other things) as finances and the wife permits, but if I shell out serious bucks for something (like the Wested I'm waiting for) it's because I want it to last a long time due to honest wear and tear. THAT, to me, is an investment.

bink

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:11 am

I disagree. But only because I know there are collectors out there. They don't wear the gear, but they collect it. For instance, when the guy out west who has the early, Raiders era HJ puts it up for auction on ebay, what do you guys think it will bring? Of course, this may be a bad comparison, since the NH gear was not made during this era, but just the association, and the fact that one of the original suppliers made the outfit and is no longer in business does mean something to certain people. Just my 2 cents. Fedora

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:23 am

I'm with Steve. I agree that clothes are meant to be worn, but these aren't Dockers, this is a costume piece, made by a costumer for a film. They CAN be worn, yes, but in it's purest form, I have the shirt and pants of a film character's costume.

recently, a pair of Levi's jeans from the 1800's was sold for a REDICULOUS amount of money, and I'm pretty sure that although we can agree that a 100+ yr old pair of jeans are just clothes, they aren't going to be worn.

Perhaps the repro's are good enuff for the collectors of the future, but there may also be the traditionalsists who want THE costume pieces from NH/MBA.

Only time will tell.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:24 am

Fedora said

I disagree. But only because I know there are collectors out there. They don't wear the gear, but they collect it.

Yeah, I see your point. Honestly, there are some things I collect for the sake of collecting (some of my vintage clothes, even) so I'm not trying to put anyone down for being just a collector. I should clarify that for ME, the majority of Indy stuff I'd like to eventually obtain is gear I hope to proudly wear out and about. I'm also an avid thrift store shopper, so there are some things I find which can suit my average needs, while certain items are worn for more special occassions.

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:25 am

I can really see both sides to this...I consider myself somewhat of a collector, if all my gear isn't some kind of collection, I don't know what is. I can also see how some folks might not want to put their gear in harms way due to the price tag on most of these items. When I first got into this hobby, I considered buying 2 of everything, so I could have a collection for display and a collection to wear. Of course, that didn't prove itself to be a very cost-effective way of approaching this hobby, so I wear almost all my stuff (I say almost because I honestly can't remember the last time I put on my MBA Raiders Gunbelt,

) and when I'm not wearing it, I have a spot for it in my collection. If I had more than one NH Shirt or any of the MBA stuff, I would have kept at least one set unopened to preserve it. In my mind, it all comes down to the question "Is it a shirt, or is it a prop?" Shirts should be worn, props should be displayed. The answer to this question really depends on whose buying it...

-GCR

IndianaJames · Post by **IndianaJames** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:40 am

I absolutely think Noels gear will appreciate, no doubt about it. I think we might see some pop up on ebay around the time Indy 4 is released. Because of the simple fact that he was the original maker, and is no longer in buisness.

-I J

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:51 am

I can agree to "wearing" your gear, such as the MBA Indy shirts...but the one thing that I do have which I DO NOT "use" is an original MKV II Bag in Mint condition w/ Noel Howard Raiders strap. Reason being, is that these bags aren't just hot Indy collectables, but also hot WW II collectables. Take the Civil War for example, 50 years ago you could buy almost anything relatively at a cheap price. Now,.....almost anything used in the Civil War (gear-wise) has increased in price 100x. It seems that military gear, when used in service, increases in value as time goes on and things become harder to find.....

just my .02

Captain D

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:52 am

Bah, what fun is having gear if you don't wear it?

I know, I know; some people really get a kick out of just collecting movie memorobilia, and I can understand that... I guess. After all, I enjoy collecting stuff from the IJ movies, but not NEARLY as much as I enjoy USING stuff from the IJ movies.

I would have never bought a whip if I thought it was going to sit in a display case. The Same goes for my Wested, pants, shirts, belts, bag, and the hats I have coming. These s*ckers are getting worn! Partly because of the Indy experience, but mostly because I think they look d@amn good!

To rehash what GCR wrote above: Gear should be worn and Props shld be displayed. IMO the NH shirt, for all it's accuracy, is a piece of gear, meant to be worn. If you're looking for something collectible try and find one of the props originally used in the movie (but first try and find that sunken treasure you'll have to pull up to pay for it).

The real value of a piece of gear comes when you wear it. When you use it 100 times and you can look at it and scarcely count all the awesome memories associated with it, or when it becomes so comfortable that it is automatically the first thing you reach for in your closet. THATS the real value of this gear.

schwammy · Post by **schwammy** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:14 pm

Indiana Gater wrote:Recently a pair of Levi's jeans from the 1800's was sold for a RIDICULOUS amount of money, and I'm pretty sure that although we can agree that a 100+ yr old pair of jeans are just clothes, they aren't going to be worn.

Yes, I've been following that story with some interest. It seems the jeans turned up in an old Nevada mining town, and were purchased for almost $50,000 by Levi Strauss.

Interestingly, they are apparently going to duplicate the pattern and sell replicas, probably for something less than $50,000.

Here's an article about it:

http://iafrica.com/highlife/goodlife/fe ... 343778.htm

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:24 pm

Sorry, I'm not seeing it. I would think that the more you wear any thing... the more it depreciates.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:47 pm

As with any collectable, the numbers are what make the item worth holding on to or not. NH made a BUNCH of stuff, though not at the level of Levi Strauss.

Just the name connection and history should allow the items to appreciate, but based on the numbers of items he did make, just that association will not necessarily cause the price to jump. Time will tell, as well as the timeliness of this hobby. Like Belloq so elequently said about the watch.....in a thousand years it could be priceless. Time was the real determinent. The flip side to that is, in a thousand years it could be worthless too! Lots of variables to consider. Regards. Michaelson

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:48 pm

To each, his own. There is somebody out there that will collect just about anything that you can imagine. Collect too much and you are a pack rat. There are a lot of things that people collect, that I personally wouldn't give you two cents for. And conversely, there are people that could care less about things that are near and dear to me.

My personal opinion about Indy Gear is that if it was actually worn in an Indiana Jones movie, then it "belongs in a museum". Otherwise, I don't think it has much value except to fellow gearheads. Since the NH gear is no longer available, in our little community, it's value has risen somewhat. It's value is simply what worth we place upon it. Sentimental value notwithstanding, the price of goods today are what price the market will bear. Diamonds are nothing more than highly polished rocks, but their value is high because there are a lot of people that collect those little rocks.

Besides the handmade grandfather clocks that my late father made, one of my most prized posessions is the hockey jersey worn by Peter Bondra in all of the home games the year that he led the NHL in goals scored. I have put it on, but I have never worn it out anywhere. I have plenty of other hockey jerseys, but none as prized as this. To someone that is not a hockey fan, this jersey is nothing more than a used, dirty shirt, with large numbers, and someone else's name on it.

I don't think anyone will get rich, holding on to Indygear unless it was screen used. So, if that is not the case, then my advice would be to wear it, use it, and enjoy it.

Now, having said all of that, hey Fedora, how much will you take for that shirt and pants, they're just my size!

Starman Jones · Post by **Starman Jones** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:02 pm

Off topic, but diamonds are so expensive because DeBeers Consolidated mines controls most of the world's supply. As for NH gear, IMO, will have value if actually used in a movie. Even then, it seems like only well-known items, like Dorothy's ruby slippers, bring the big bucks.

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:39 am

One of the things I should have said earlier is that there are times when people make an excuse to buy what they want by saying “It’s an investment”. Just come out and say to yourself that you want it just because it would be cool to have.

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:41 am

Renderking Fisk wrote:One of the things I should have said earlier is that there are times when people make an excuse to buy what they want by saying “It’s an investment”. Just come out and say to yourself that you want it just because it would be cool to have.

Ahhh, the power of rationalization. Truer words ain't never been spoke

Cassidy · Post by **Cassidy** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:51 am

I hate to admit it, but someone is going to throw up MBA shirts and pants on E-Bay and say something to the effect that these are originals, blah blah blah, and the price will skyrocket.

Look at what happened a few years ago with Westeds. I remember some going for as high as $400, people didn't realize that they could get their own for around $250.

This is frustrating. I've opened everything I've ever bought, I don't have one bloody thing in it's original packaging, and I have a lot of cool stuff, because I know I'll never put my kids through college with it. But they are going to have a really good time with that Well of Souls playset.

Cassidy

Starman Jones · Post by **Starman Jones** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:49 pm

Before I knew about WPG, I got in a bidding war on eBay with someone in Georgia for a USED WPG replica MK VII. He won, thankfully, getting it for $51.00 + shipping!

Rick Blaine · Post by **Rick Blaine** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:38 pm

Noel's costumes (and I'm not saying this because of my former involvement in this industry) are exactly that: costumes.

Levi Strauss jeans will take a beating, Noel Howard shirts won't. I have ruined two Noel Howard shirts by simply wearing them, not in hiking adventures, not in daring battles with arab swordsman, but to dinner. I am a small guy so I know it wasn't my weight that contributed to the destruction of the shirt. They are costumes. Movie houses buy them in 100s to fill production needs and they are turned to dust by the end of production.

A collectors item? I honestly don't think so, because the truth is Noel was NOT the ORIGINAL supplier. We have this in our heads that original is the best when in fact it isn't, because an original movie costume could never take the punishment a real adventure set can and will.

If you want a collector's item that was made by the original guy send a $400 check to Andre Dometakis and request a Raiders shirt. He will make one from one of the three exsisting bolts of ORIGINAL fabric used in three films (This is a fact) expect the ETA to be 1 to 5 years. I have a friend that sent a check well over 4 years ago and is still patiently waiting for his shirt made by the ORIGINAL guy.

Noel Howard did not: design, manufacture, or supervise the Raiders shirts. He was on the production staff at Burmans and Nathans, he was ahead of production during LC.

You want a collectors item original get it from Andre Dometakis but don't think Noel was the guy that made these happen back in 1980.

Sincerest Regards,

Rick Blaine

P.S. Please recognize I am not trying to start a war, and I am certainly not trying to come off as harsh, this is not my intention. I am only giving my 2 cents in case it might make a difference in a $100+ purchase that can possibly be avoided. I only want to give credit where credit is due and that is to Andre Dometakis for the original shirts. Thank you

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:03 pm

Rick Blaine wrote: send a $400 check to Andre Dometakis and request a Raiders shirt. He will make one from one of the three exsisting bolts of ORIGINAL fabric used in three films (This is a fact) expect the ETA to be 1 to 5 years. I have a friend that sent a check well over 4 years ago and is still patiently waiting for his shirt made by the ORIGINAL guy.

Oh boy, he sure is a fast worker. I wonder if he ships by Pony Express?

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:25 pm

I agree with IndianaGuyBrush, the clothes gotta be worn because they look so #### good!

While I, least of all, could have forseen the day that the illustrious M.B.A. Ltd. would close their doors, I've always been blessed with the gift of practical foresight. Over the years, I collected four sets of M.B.A. Indy clothes, two sets in each movie style (Raiders/ToD - Last Crusade), because I know that clothes take the most wear and tear over anything else. If you do the math with Noel's prices, you'd probably cringe at what the Indy wardrobe cost me, but keep in mind that it was accumulated over a period of 5 years, so I didn't go broke doing it. In retrospect, I'm extremely grateful for what I did, and I think in the future I'll pick up a few of the Wested repros just for fun and comparison.

-Dale

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:06 am

Custom Indiana Jones Fedora: $300
Wested Indiana Jones Jacket from eBay: $400
Mark VII Gas MAsk Bag from eBay: $50
Original Indiana Jones Shirt: $400

Expression on your face when you drip spaghetti sauce on your duds:

Priceless.

Cassidy · Post by **Cassidy** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:14 pm

Custom Indiana Jones Fedora: $300
Wested Indiana Jones Jacket from eBay: $400
Mark VII Gas MAsk Bag from eBay: $50
Original Indiana Jones Shirt: $400

Paying $400 for a jacket on E-Bay and then discovering that you can get one tailor made for yourself cheaper - PRICELESS!

Cassidy