The Last Crusade jacket repro. thread...

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:46 am

Since there has been such a Last Crusade jacket renewal as of late, I thought it would be a great idea to post all reproduction jackets here, in one thread.

The path to LC jacket utopia....

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:08 am

Here's my Wested LC novapelle w/ new screen-accurate black lining:

Please forgive the gratuitous HJ cameo, but my fedora was getting jealous of my jacket stealing all of the limelight. I really wish those two would just get along.

St. Dumas · Post by **St. Dumas** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:55 am

Wested custom:

Indyzane · Post by **Indyzane** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:44 am

Mine:

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:43 pm

Here's mine.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:44 pm

Looks like Harrison's got us all beat!

Post by **Holt** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:08 pm

yeah, we have seen this jacket a few times now but here is my HH 08 LC.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:13 pm

I think the most amusing thing is that all of us 'customisers' have gone for a black lining (including me). But I'm actually convinced that it's a very dark brown satin liner.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:56 pm

Here's my strips o' leather....

Post by **Holt** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:58 pm

if you wanna let it go sell it to me. just keep that in mind if you ever decide to sell it.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:59 pm

Kt Templar wrote:I think the most amusing thing is that all of us 'customisers' have gone for a black lining (including me). But I'm actually convinced that it's a very dark brown satin liner.

Yeah, we're probably all wrong, but thanks to the Blu-rays we can finally know the truth. Anybody feel like posting some HD screencaps?

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:53 pm

Is that a G&B ,Tex? Pretty nice lookin' strips o' jerky ya got there.

You fellas are seriously making me wish I had an LC. Now that I've finally found a Raiders jacket that does it for me maybe I need to start looking for a new crusade

.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:25 pm

That is a Wested custom LC that I spec'd, and it can be found in this thread also:

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=53379" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you decide to get a LC repro., and you want something accurate to film, I'd suggest thick, veg tanned lamb/sheep, or one of Wested's cowhide options, like KT's lamb touch, which is thinner, and the natural distressed look really sets it apart. If you like thicker, there is the pre-distressed hide or Novapelle in either dark or copper.

Post by **Holt** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:54 pm

Here is the jacket with a closer tone to how I see it in real life. nice and brown and soft

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:32 pm

Thanks Tex. I am bookmarking your thread for future reference!

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:16 pm

While there is a lull in the action, let’s discuss the features and specs that make a good Last Crusade reproduction? As in the Raider’s jacket, it was the perfect storm of material, specs, fit and features. Check out some screen caps with an eye for the details and you are half way there. Let’s begin our quest….

The Collar
On the surface, the collar stand would appear to be a very minor detail, but it is very relevant to the overall look. One current trend that vendors have resorted to is to make their jackets with wider collar stands. I have an older G&B Expedition, and its collar stand is 7/8, while this older Wested RoLA is 1”. In contrast, the USW Legend is 1 3/8”. A review of the screen stills will reveal that the collar stand was not that exceptionally wide on the Raiders jacket:
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm556972800/tt0082971" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

…and it appears that the collar stand on the Last Crusade film jacket was not that wide either, hard to tell, but maybe around 1” at the widest:
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2995948800/tt0097576" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The important issue to be aware of with the collar stand, is that especially on the Last Crusade jacket, the collar stand rolls over with the collar, so if you spec an exceptionally wide collar, of 3” or more, the collar will then look disproportionally too wide, due to the “roll.” It would appear, based on the above screen cap, that the collar is possibly 2¾” at its widest point, and ends at the inside edge of the storm flap. Also, note that the top of the storm flap is squared off in the still image and does not taper to the outside edge.

Storm Flap
Needless to say, the storm flap has often been a topic of debate. However, when put into its perspective per film, it is not so disorienting. When Nowak reportedly acquired a Raiders screen jacket to copy, it revealed a detail that had been all but forgotten. Previous to this great opportunity, vendors had reproduced the Raiders jacket with storm flaps similar to A-2 copies, thinner in width. Nowak made several Raiders jackets, then his assistant posted the specs:
#000/888 Measurements that I took:
Front Flap w/ Collar Stand vertically from bottom to top: 23"
Shoulder from sleeve seam to collar seam: ~7"
Sleeves from cuff to sleeve seam: between 25 1/2" to 25 3/4"
Back vertical length from Collar Stand to Lower back panel: 23"
Chest width: 22 1/2"
Waist width: 21 1/2"
Pockets: 8" x 6.5" (Crystal Skull Pocket for comparison: 7.5" x 6")

Screen caps revealed that the Raider’s storm flap was wider, not narrow, as was the current trend among vendors:
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm556972800/tt0082971" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Other retailers, such as Wested, and later, BK followed his lead. It is thought that the Last Crusade film jacket’s flap was probably about the same width of the Raider’s jacket, at around 1 ½”, and that the distressing lines, both inside and outside the seams of the storm flap create an optical illusion, making the flap appear even wider, especially from a distance. However, some prefer to spec the flap at 1 ¾”. Any wider than this, and the storm flap will appear abnormally wide, contra-balancing its overall appearance. Visible “press studs” or snaps anchor the top and bottom, and the width of them can be used to measure the true width of the LC screen jacket’s flap. Per film, the top of the flap is squared off and does not taper to its outside edge.

Pockets
Based on the image in the first post, it would appear that the pockets are placed at roughly 2” from the bottom edge, (which is seamless), and around 1 ½” from the leading edges of the storm flap. The pockets are shorter than the Raider’s pockets and appear to be wider. I like to use: 7 1/4” Tall x 6 ½” Wide, compensating for the Grail Diary. The flaps are lightly scalloped, at under half the width of the pocket length. Piping on the top of the flaps is not heavy. The straps are anchored toward the lower bottom portion of the pockets and secured with D-rings, preferring the old style anchor stitching to “X” box. Great images here of the “Chicago” jacket, half way down the page:
http://filmjackets.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Inside/Liner
As KT pointed out, possibly most prefer a darker, black liner, though some will opt for darker brown. There are obviously no leather facings inside. The liner looks similar to black satin to the eye:
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2861731072/tt0097576" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1563605760/tt0097576" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yoke & Seams
Obviously the sleeve seams and yoke seams line up, due to a wider yoke than the Raider’s jacket. The sleeves have no top seam. They are glued, if I’m not mistaken.

The rule of thumb with any Last Crusade reproduction is to make sure the proportions are as faithful as possible, without taxing the vendor to the point of attrition.

Post by **Holt** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:58 am

A few opinions on the LC jacket specs

the collar. the collar is a untapered collar. meaning no larger tips with slimmer center neck. one size straight around. the tips should be slighty round as well.

collar stand. yeah, thats a though one to get right. example, IMO you cannot get a big wide collar stand if you get the jacket in Lambskin. then the ''roll'' will be TOO huge making the collar look too big and akward. IMO the lambskin is too weak to hold a wide collarstand correctly. If getting a big collarstand the skin should be alittle thicker to get the perfect roll. you get a perfect roll on the real LC jacket because the lambskin was pretty thick and stiff.

the pockets. some jacket had large pockets that are placed low on the jacket and some had wider and more square looking pockets that were placed higher on the jacket. I like the latter. the ''smithsonian'' look.

lastly the skin, the skin is tough to get right. to be accurate to the orignal get lambskin, a thick batch. Only problem is they don't source that thick lambskin.. so your best bet would be the lambtouch that Kt has. only problem to me at least is that the skin is preaged. you don't get any shiny parts vs dull aged parts the original had. I personally have ultrasoft Horsehide. it's wonderfull. I can recommend it but I only can recommend the skin that I got. what they have now I dunno. it seems that they source a thicker/stiffer and darker skin now. so ask if they have soft chocolate HH

Post by **Holt** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:37 am

oh, forgot..

one more thing that is pretty important. well, to me at least is to the get the V taper in the backpanel and to get wider upper sleeves. 0.75'' or so. the LC sleeves had a pretty wide bicep/armhole and tapered nicely down on the lower arm.

Here she was new and in dusk daylight

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:51 am

The LC jacket, which is more of a relaxed fit, is almost a completely different pattern to its Raiders cousin, as Peter has stated before. Your illustrations and insight make it obvious, Holt.

dresden · Post by **dresden** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:41 pm

My contribution: three wested LC's. well two LC/CS jackets and one LC attempt by me.

I went with a light last crusade style distressing for my latest jacket, the LC style distressing looks the coolest to me at least. When I took the sand paper to it, there was an ugly grayish color, so I used some brown boot polish on it, and it warmed the color right up. Those warm brown colors are very important in a last crusade jacket. To me at least. And I'm actually very happy with how the collar & collar stand turned out.

The last two pics:left to right. LC in thick lamb- LC/CS in lamb which I beat the he** out of- LC/CS in pre distressed cow.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8458/1348367887981.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5499 ... 923236.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9519 ... 958072.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4505/1348367993065.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/799/ ... 023597.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/1540 ... 055087.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dresden · Post by **dresden** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:05 am

Oh by the way, has anyone seen a Nowak LC on eBay in a size 36? I've been searching for awhile but no luck. I would love to own a TNO. But I've never seen one in a 36.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:24 am

For info on distressing techniques, visit this forum:

http://indygear.com/cow/viewforum.php?f=5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:22 pm

I've never distressed an LC jacket, but I used acetone to good effect on my first jacket, a Wested Raiders in goatskin.

Does anyone still use acetone on their jackets now? It seems like now cold water washes and sandpaper are the methods de rigueur.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:47 pm

I would think that something like acetone would be best for the discoloration along the seams, as sandpaper and thread do not mix....er...

....they do, but the thead comes out on the short end of the stick, usually. Holt, KT and others are skilled in the darker art forms...

...and may be able to lend their expertise in this area, but it appears as though they took a rag with acetone on it and outlined the seams and around the boarders for the classic LC look? Undoubtedly, a wire brush or varying grits of sandpaper were used around the heavier distressed areas, such as the shoulders and torso. The smoother, darker areas were undoubtedly black shoe polish, and I think what they were trying to replicate was the effect of water and dirt when leather gets wet repeatedly, then dries.

If I were so inclined, I might do the water treatment at least once or twice first, then acetone the "lines", sandpaper the areas, shoe polish, etc.

Post by **Holt** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:56 pm

Not to help stearing this further into a distressing/share techniques thread since we basicley have a whole section dedicated for that type of discussion further down the main page allready...

but as far as my distressing technique goes? it's too much to explain, I would have to show you. like I say with the grail diary distresing, hat and what not.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:08 pm

Righto, Holt. I changed the above post to link the forum, and you can delete the last 4 posts if you wish?

Thank you.

Post by **Holt** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:24 pm

davex247 · Post by **davex247** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:14 pm

Heres my LC

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:19 pm

I'll throw this out there, and I'm reasonably sure it has been brought up before, but do you think Peter could standardize the LC repro jacket's specs the same way he has with the Hero project? I think it is a win/win?

Post by **Holt** » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:28 pm

nope! I dont see it happen if he doesn't have a ''original'' jacket to copy like he did with Temple of doom and Nowak.

LC would be a fan based project and what good is that? you may hand him one set of specs and to you it's THE set of specs and to the next man it's not.

dresden · Post by **dresden** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:58 am

There's gotta be at least a few specs we can all agree on, the basic specs?

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:04 pm

..we do have the correct pocket size, I believe, from tracings.

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:12 pm

dresden wrote:There's gotta be at least a few specs we can all agree on, the basic specs?

Oh boy, here we go again...

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:51 pm

I suppose Peter will do as he will do, but now that we have that bit of discussion out of the way, let's get centered again on the repros. If you have a new repro., well....

Post 'em UP!

Post by **Holt** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:54 pm

I don't forsee Peter doing much let alone anything anymore on his last days at wested...

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:32 am

Last Friday and Saturday, I was caught in a few rainshowers, and I was surprised at how fast this thin, lambskin LC seemed to soak up the rain like a sponge. It's reaction to the rain seemed altogether different than water from the faucet? Have you experienced that? Now the jacket has some heft, and is feeling and looking more like a LC jacket.

Post by **Holt** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:24 am

yep, water will dot hat to a leather jacket. especially lambskin. thats why I do the water treatment so often.

The leather bloats and then stiffens and shrinks alittle giving it a nice heft. pull the straps alittle and you will notice they feel stronger attached

IndyOriginal · Post by **IndyOriginal** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:25 am

Going through all of these old(er) threads about the LC, trying to pin down what it is I'm going to order, I've seen more than one person reference "thick lamb" jackets from Wested. Is this something you can ask Peter for, and reasonably well expect them to deliver? Any experiences with this, guys?

As always, thanks in advance

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:41 am

Thick lamb could have very well been the stoke, back in the day, when they made the movie, but sometimes cow is used as a good sub for this type of jacket. I have their lamb touch hide, which is thin cow, and it is a great leather as well. If it is possible to get thick lamb, but chances are it will not be veg tan, which was most likely the original skin.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:01 am

My favourite for an LC from Wested: Their worn look cow. It's mid weight and has a nice warm undertone. You can ask them is they have some thinner hides if you want to emulate the drape. The original looks like lamb to me, but modern chrome lamb doesn't quite capture it.

Here is my LC custom.

Minty:

After a little bit of distressing.

And after a little wear:

IndyOriginal · Post by **IndyOriginal** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:06 am

Thanks for the quick reply, Tex. I agree that the original probably was a veg-tanned hide, because of the underlying reddish-brown that seeps out of the heavily distressed areas of the jacket. One of the reasons that I love the LC so much.

I've seen others try to recreate that look with lots of brown polishes and even dyes, I think. I'll probably have to do the same if I'm to come anywhere close to the super-distresed look as seen on screen.

The lamb touch cow jacket that is in this thread, KT's I believe, is a great looking jacket. More food for thought

I get the feeling that now that I've come out and stated I am after an SA LC jacket, that I'm probably going to end up buying more than one. Oh well

IndyOriginal · Post by **IndyOriginal** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:08 am

KT, that is a fantastic LC jacket there!

Is the Wested "worn look" the same as lamb touch?

ChrisMD · Post by **ChrisMD** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:30 am

Kt Templar wrote:My favourite for an LC from Wested: Their worn look cow. It's mid weight and has a nice warm undertone. You can ask them is they have some thinner hides if you want to emulate the drape. The original looks like lamb to me, but modern chrome lamb doesn't quite capture it.

Here is my LC custom.

Minty:

After a little bit of distressing.

And after a little wear:

DEAD ON PERFECT. Nice work!!!!!!!!

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:35 pm

IndyOriginal wrote:KT, that is a fantastic LC jacket there!

Is the Wested "worn look" the same as lamb touch?

Actually no, lambtouch cow is a thin, chrome tanned and 'top coated' leather. That is not a negative thing, most leather is topcoated with an acrylic layer for toughness.

My Hero is in lambtouch cow:

Note: All that grain turns up only after a little bit of day to day wear. Then out of the box it is very flat and featureless and slightly shiny.

It's a fantastic jacket. Light and strong. A really nice balance of weight and toughness.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:26 pm

KT, you big Templar ham, you! Now box that thing up and send it right out here!

Bogie1943 · Post by **Bogie1943** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:49 pm

I am really into the idea of adding a LC jacket to my collection. I am looking towards a Wested on this one. Before I make any sort of order I would like to know how accurate is the standard "custom" LC pattern at Wested these days? Also what details or alterations should one request upon ordering a Wested LC to get an accurate as possible look?

Also hide choice is one thing I am struggling with at the moment. I seem to bounce between a lamb and cowhide. Any opinions?

IndyOriginal · Post by **IndyOriginal** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:21 pm

Bogie, I am right there with ya...I really think, after getting some of the custom specs/alterations right, the key to a great LC is the method of distressing employed. I'll definitely be checking back in as I go through the LC jacket quest.

CM · Post by CM » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:00 am

Bogie1943 wrote:I am really into the idea of adding a LC jacket to my collection. I am looking towards a Wested on this one. Before I make any sort of order I would like to know how accurate is the standard "custom" LC pattern at Wested these days? Also what details or alterations should one request upon ordering a Wested LC to get an accurate as possible look?

Also hide choice is one thing I am struggling with at the moment. I seem to bounce between a lamb and cowhide. Any opinions?

Pockets and collar. Standard Wested LC pockets are really out. You need a broad or deep flap that almost goes half way down the pocket. And a big collar. The standard Wested LC is a hybrid - much of it looks like a KotCS jacket.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:00 am

One of the details that people miss is that the LC pockets are set higher up on the body than RAIDERS. 2.5-3" or so above the hem depending on how long you spec the jacket.

Also. No hem stitch at the bottom of the jacket and no overstitch on the sleeve back seams.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:29 am

The 'lil tutorial above should point ya in the right direction.