Indy Boot Options

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:11 pm

I would have put this in the vendor section, but you can't make a poll there...

I'm still looking for the right mfg for these boots, and I have a few options, but as you can guess, some options are pricey. I wanted to get a feel for what is most appealing to you. Let me explain the choices:

Average quality: Glued on sole, good leather upper and sole material. Compare to Rockport, Sketchers, etc. $75 - $99
Good Quality: Goodyear Welt, better materials, good craftsmanship. Compare to Carolina, Caterpillar, etc. $110 - $125
Best Quality: Goodyear welt, top materials and hardware, compare to Redwing, Alden $165 - $185

I really don't know how to call this one. I see the allure of the low end and high end, but I'd appreciate any input. I can only carry one option.

-Todd

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:24 pm

In this climate of financial hard times, I am for (but have ALWAYS been for) getting what you pay for, and that being to purchase items that will last, are tough for use, and are re-buildable.

I voted for option 3.

Regards! Michaelson

TheExit148 · Post by **TheExit148** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:28 pm

Yes 3 is the best option. If you are going to build and offer a quality boot like that, it's well worth it.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:41 pm

I voted best

Ian · Post by **Ian** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:43 pm

I'd jump at the chance for a pair of Alden quality boots for that price...

Ian

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:54 pm

I would get 2 pair of the best quality

IndyRiv · Post by **IndyRiv** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:09 pm

I also believe in getting your money's worth so I voted #3 as well. As others have mentioned, even the best quality (which sounds FANTASTIC for construction/materials) is hands down a 1/3 of the cost of Aldens and as one whose Outdoorsman boots are still going strong (for $75) after a good year or more, I forsee these boots lasting a very long time.

As such, the feet tend to get the most abuse and no adventurer is worth his/her salt without a good pair of footwear on their feet. So providing a very durable, comfortable boot is very important.

No question about it for me - #3.

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:12 pm

Because of recent problems with my Todd's boots, I also voted for option 3.

Rikimaru · Post by **Rikimaru** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:06 pm

#3 for sure. Even at that price its still a great deal. On a side note, would the color remain about the same as the previous batch or would you be sourcing a darker color?

Indiana Jake · Post by **Indiana Jake** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:21 pm

I also vote for #3. At less than half the Alden price, that's a deal. Btw what about E widths?
If cost is an issue, there are close enough options available from what others have posted. High quality gear costs less in the end.

Jake

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:24 pm

I'd say #3, if the rebuild is possible, because that option alone makes it well worth the price.

darkhelmet · Post by **darkhelmet** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:36 pm

Wow..what a tough call. I am wearing a pair of Skecher Indy style boots that has lasted several years. I guess it all depends on what someone is going to use them for.

Of course I like to buy things that will last, but I've had good experiences with Skecher quality, so I wouldn't mind taking a chance on option 1.

I also expect $80 to $100 dollar shoes/boots should last me awhile, even with moderate daily abuse. Anything less than $50 and I expect them to blow out in less than a year.

I guess what I am saying is everyone has different expectation and price thresholds. If I am going to spend $185 bucks, I might as well save up a little more for the real deal.

kwh · Post by **kwh** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:54 pm

three

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:01 pm

darkhelmet wrote:If I am going to spend $185 bucks, I might as well save up a little more for the real deal.

Ditto.

My vote is for number 2. A good quality boot along the lines of Carolina's for a hundred dollars is just a small step away from the $75 price point for a much better made boot.

Also, I've NEVER been able to vote on these things...it always says the choice is INVALID or something.

Jedirun · Post by **Jedirun** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:11 pm

I vote for 3 for myself, but I am not sure if the people on this board are Todd's main customers or if a cheaper option would sell better.

Like other people, my $75 Todd's boots are still going strong, but I would be happy to have a pair that I know would be able to be rebuilt and last a lifetime.

Dr. Jones

Oildale Jones · Post by **Oildale Jones** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:48 pm

3. If Todd can make a quality jacket that appeals to me more than the more expensive ones, and costs less, I'd certainly be willing to pay up to half the price of Aldens for his boots. (Did that make sense?)

bounos · Post by **bounos** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:03 pm

Why would anyone settle for less?

3 All the way!

George $\:D/$

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:12 am

While I hate to be the "medium" man, I gotta go with 2. My reasoning is, we already have few good options at the higher price point (option three and higher), and we've already had some issues with the lower (option one). The middle option keeps the boots affordable and quality high, which would keep a good pair Indy of boots within reach of those with tighter budgets, while allowing those with more money to spend to pick up a secondary pair without doubling up on the high end offerings.

I don't dispute that that option 3 is very tempting, but think it would best serve the customer base (as in, we the gearheads) if we went with 2.

fifthchamber · Post by **fifthchamber** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:55 am

I voted 3....

If the shoes are great quality, and you can get them at that cheap a price, they'd be a favourite for years...No doubts...Making something mid-level doesn't really seem to make sense, since it's not cheap and tacky enough to buy a new pair easily, and not expensive enough to last a longer time...So, given those choices, 3 makes the most sense...

I reckon..

Oildale Jones · Post by **Oildale Jones** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:58 am

What I really want to know is, When might they be available?

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:31 am

Chewbacca Jones wrote:While I hate to be the "medium" man, I gotta go with 2. My reasoning is, we already have few good options at the higher price point (option three and higher), and we've already had some issues with the lower (option one). The middle option keeps the boots affordable and quality high, which would keep a good pair Indy of boots within reach of those with tighter budgets, while allowing those with more money to spend to pick up a secondary pair without doubling up on the high end offerings.

I don't dispute that that option 3 is very tempting, but think it would best serve the customer base (as in, we the gearheads) if we went with 2.

"My thoughts exactly."

bounos · Post by **bounos** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:33 am

Oildale Jones wrote:What I really want to know is, When might they be available?

Dear Santa,

What I would like for Christmas is a pair of . . .

BOOTS! $\:D/$

patchcamel · Post by **patchcamel** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:04 pm

I voted for option 3 simply because I agree supreme gear is cheaper in the long run. At that price they are still considerably cheaper than Aldens or Magnoli's. If some one is on a tight budget their are still cheaper options than even option 1 that are already available by Aldo or Sketcher.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:16 pm

Which ever gets chosen, I also hope consideration is given to widths of sizing.

Keep in mind, there are a LOT of us out here that need narrow width shoes.

It they're offered in only wide or medium width, you're missing out on a LOT of sales from folks like me.

It's due to that issue that WE purchase Alden's or Redwings that DO offer boots in, say, a 'B' width. We have no choice.

Regards! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:31 pm

Also, in the comparison thread, I attempted (confirmed by Mark) to point out that what sets these Alden 403/405's apart is the platform. It is an orthopedic shoe that happens to look like a work boot, and that the quality material and construction are the main reasons for its weight. They are heavier, but in the end, it is worth the extra heft, in my opinion. The contoured heel adds to its stability.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:52 pm

irishjones · Post by **irishjones** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:01 pm

I voted for Option 3, because I'd love a high-quality Indy boot without paying the $400-odd for Aldens (although I intend to do it some day!). Also, I'd like to know how wide they are because my feet are US-size 10 but are a G-width. Very wide, I know. So I'd like to know if they'd be wide enough for my feet without having to order a size or two up from my regular so my feet can fit into them.

PyramidBlaster · Post by **PyramidBlaster** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:41 pm

I voted option 2, as it does indeed seem that there's numerous options available in the other 2 categories, and option 2 would give you good quality with a Goodyear welt.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:47 pm

In the actual honest to gosh Indy boot style? Where? We're not talking about 'wannabee's'

Regards! Michaelson

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:04 pm

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. BTW, you can go back and change your vote if you change your mind.

I know everyone would likes the "ultimate" stuff, but I see tons of threads of guys looking for cheap "close enough" boots. It makes me wonder how many guys really would BUY the ultimate stuff, compared with the number of guys that just want to SEE the ultimate stuff...does that make sense? When it comes down to YOUR wallet, how much do you really want to spend?

-Todd

raider 57 · Post by **raider 57** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:30 pm

RaidersBash wrote:
Chewbacca Jones wrote:While I hate to be the "medium" man, I gotta go with 2. My reasoning is, we already have few good options at the higher price point (option three and higher), and we've already had some issues with the lower (option one). The middle option keeps the boots affordable and quality high, which would keep a good pair Indy of boots within reach of those with tighter budgets, while allowing those with more money to spend to pick up a secondary pair without doubling up on the high end offerings.

I don't dispute that that option 3 is very tempting, but think it would best serve the customer base (as in, we the gearheads) if we went with 2.

"My thoughts exactly."

I agree with Chewie as well. The #2 option.
I'd bet $110-125 would result in a nice looking, and durable boot.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:49 pm

Puppetboy wrote:Thanks for the feedback, everyone. BTW, you can go back and change your vote if you change your mind.

I know everyone would likes the "ultimate" stuff, but I see tons of threads of guys looking for cheap "close enough" boots. It makes me wonder how many guys really would BUY the ultimate stuff, compared with the number of guys that just want to SEE the ultimate stuff...does that make sense? When it comes down to YOUR wallet, how much do you really want to spend?

-Todd

I guess that completely depends on what customer you're aiming these at, Todd. You're only talking a difference of $110 from low end to top end of your choices. If you go low end low to low end high, only $90.

For that difference, why NOT go all out and offer the best rather than 'repairable' costume grade materials?

You already have your answer who would vote with their wallet by the number of folks who are shelling out for the Alden 403's and 405's every day.

Speaking for myself, I'm not currently in the market for any boots....but if I knew I could get some nicely affordable boots in my SIZE and of the best quality, I could be tempted to part with the funds......

Regards! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:06 pm

I have always heard to never skimp on eyeware or footwear. If it meant first quality materials, etc., I think $165 to $185 is reasonable. To me, close enoughs were never satisfying because though they were close, it just wasn't quite 'it'. I bought some of your first generation boots and liked them, but if they were upgraded for everyday wearability, then you would have quite a boot there. You could possibly stock your store with refurbishments, heel rubber, etc., and not only do you make the soles of the boot vertually new again, you would get additional-minor repair work and repeat customers, just through the boot sales and service? I mean, the gun and jacket now cost ~$200. If the boots are $175, this is not that far away from what guys now pay for good workboots in the field.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:31 pm

Texan Scott wrote: If the boots are $175, this is not that far away from what guys now pay for good workboots in the field.

Exactly. That's what I meant by actual 'Indy style' boots and not 'wannabee's' in that price range.

Regards! Michaelson

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:40 pm

This is why I need input. Personally, I've never spent more than $59.95 for a pair of shoes. And my wife said "you paid how much?"

-Todd

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:02 pm

You're lucky. Those of us with narrow feet (read 'bad' feet) have to pay a LOT more for our shoes.

My first pair of Alden 405's were actually prescribed for me!

Regards! Michaelson

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:07 pm

It seems like it would be hard to swim.

-Todd

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:28 pm

Yep, but then, who REALLY swims with their boots on?

Regards! Michaelson

wellofsouls · Post by **wellofsouls** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:31 pm

Option 3. Two thoughts: first, repairability/resolability is job 1. If you make a boot that can be resoled in a traditional manner, then you've got a boot worth putting money into. Second, much of the price attached to Red Wing and Alden is name recognition. It should not be difficult to shave a good bit off the top of the price without the fancy name. I'd rather give my money to a smaller operation. I deal with individual craftsmen a lot, and the more I do it, the more I wonder why more people don't.

Edit - I didn't realize you were Todd's Costumes.

"When it comes down to YOUR wallet, how much do you really want to spend?"
I would be very happy spending $175 - 200 for a traditionally made boot, from good leather, that can be resoled. More than that, and I have trouble justifying the expense. Also, above this price point, you're competing with all the good used gear out here. I've seen 3 pairs of Aldens in my size this year on eBay that went for between $200 and $250.

afterthedog · Post by **afterthedog** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:39 pm

I had to think about this for a while, but, considering what I use my current $75 Todd's boots for, I would go for option 2. My current pair has lasted for a couple of years now, with no problems that weren't a result of my own abuse. I wear them almost every time I wear pants instead of shorts, but not as work boots.

It's because of the damage I managed to cause that I would spend a little more for what would essentually be a pair of costume/dress boots. If I decide to go for a high quality, work functional Indy boot, I'll probably go the extra mile for the Aldens.

Weston · Post by **Weston** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:03 pm

I voted for #3. I'm way to poor to buy cheap stuff!

Weston

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:01 am

Michaelson wrote: I guess that completely depends on what customer you're aiming these at, Todd. You're only talking a difference of $110 from low end to top end of your choices. If you go low end low to low end high, only $90.

For that difference, why NOT go all out and offer the best rather than 'repairable' costume grade materials?

On the other hand, looking at this from a hobbyist POV, a $90 is nothing to sneeze at. Actually, for most people I know outside of this community, $90 is a lot of money for footwear, never mind $90 MORE for footwear. It's all about wear you stand...

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:20 am

In footwear you get what you pay for. I never in a million years thought I would pay over $400 for a pair of shoes, but I did. With that said, I'm sure a great pair of Indy boots could be made and sold for $200.

fifthchamber · Post by **fifthchamber** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:38 am

I agree with Daggers....

I was satisfied for years with cheaper shoes (40-80 dollars or so?), but about ten years back I bought some Red Wings, and the Timberland, and both lasted well over 3 years...My Red Wings "died" last year, after a hiking trip here gone wrong and I holed them...But they're still comfortable..My Timbs are in worse shape, but I used them everyday in rain and sun so I expected that....

What I'm saying is that the price in shoes really IS what you get in the end.....And paying 50 dollars more for shoes that I can really RELY on, rather than hope on means a huge difference to me...I'd pay for that security, and as has been pointed out, all those who can afford Aldens already DO...It really IS important to have the best quality for the price that you can find...

Like all clothing, the more paid, the better the product (VERY generally) and I'd be happy to pay that little extra if it meant I'd get shoes that I loved, looked "right", and could TRUST. (I'd buy Aldens if I had the spare cash...But I really don't right now..)

No doubts.

wellofsouls · Post by **wellofsouls** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:11 am

trdaggers wrote:In footwear you get what you pay for. I never in a million years thought I would pay over $400 for a pair of shoes, but I did. With that said, I'm sure a great pair of Indy boots could be made and sold for $200.

You can also get robbed, too. What you say is true - and often I think the difference between a $200 pair of boots and an identical $400 pair of boots from a different maker is probably going to be the name on the box. Now, if you want to sell them a year later, then suddenly that box becomes very important. To me, a $400 pair of Aldens is a quality $200 pair of boots with $200 worth of fashion and name value attached, but then I don't understand the costume aspect of the hobby so I come at it from a different perspective. That's not a value judgement, I'm just sayin'.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:36 am

Chewbacca Jones wrote:On the other hand, looking at this from a hobbyist POV, a $90 is nothing to sneeze at. Actually, for most people I know outside of this community, $90 is a lot of money for footwear, never mind $90 MORE for footwear. It's all about wear you stand...

If you're looking for a costume piece, I agree, but these take the most abuse of any item we have in our gear.

My podiatrist once told me that makers of cheap shoes were the best thing that ever happened to his profession. He hated it for his patients who came to him with foot problems from wearing those products, but it kept HIM busy!

How many times have we 'heard' the wailing and gnashing of teeth of those who went with a DP fedora, only to realize after the DP tapered that if they had only saved a few more dollars, they could have had a hat that would have lasted for years?

Like I said, if you're only looking for a costume piece to wear once or twice a year, I totally agree. If that's the case here, then you're absolutely right, and I withdraw any comments I've made so far.....but...if you're talking about a high quality, repairable, hard wearing pair of boots that are a few hundred less than a pair of Aldens, but can only be produced in that #3 price range, then I'm all for them being made.

wellofsouls, Aldens are first and foremost orthopedic platforms. They're not just 'boots' in the sense of the word. They were created to build foot correction devices on, so there's a reason for the cost. The design is completely different in construction than, say, a Redwing, and therefore more expensive in that regard.

Regards! Michaelson

maboot38 · Post by **maboot38** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:39 am

Todd, I think for people who really care about quality gear, option 3 is definitely the way to go. The sole is so very important and I've had good experience with Goodyear put onto Allen Edmonds and I think something like that or vibram is great. The uppers need to be quality, especially because some guys around here like to artificially scuff up their gear.

So for the COW crowd, I say 3. It is a couple hundred less than Aldens, so those who whine about not being able to afford Aldens still have an option.

I think you might have an adverse impact on the customer who is looking for a costume for a one time use, but I don't know what percentage of your business that customer is, so it may not matter.

wellofsouls · Post by **wellofsouls** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:38 am

Michaelson wrote:
wellofsouls, Aldens are first and foremost orthopedic platforms. They're not just 'boots' in the sense of the word. They were created to build foot correction devices on, so there's a reason for the cost. The design is completely different in construction than, say, a Redwing, and therefore more expensive in that regard.

Regards! Michaelson

I never knew that...I thought they were a hold-over from some time in the past when Aldens perhaps made both work and dress footwear, and that one "made the cut" into the modern world.

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:48 am

wellofsouls wrote:
trdaggers wrote:In footwear you get what you pay for. I never in a million years thought I would pay over $400 for a pair of shoes, but I did. With that said, I'm sure a great pair of Indy boots could be made and sold for $200.
You can also get robbed, too. What you say is true - and often I think the difference between a $200 pair of boots and an identical $400 pair of boots from a different maker is probably going to be the name on the box. Now, if you want to sell them a year later, then suddenly that box becomes very important. To me, a $400 pair of Aldens is a quality $200 pair of boots with $200 worth of fashion and name value attached, but then I don't understand the costume aspect of the hobby so I come at it from a different perspective. That's not a value judgement, I'm just sayin'.

I think you hit the nail right on the head. I wish I could have said it as well as you did.
Gailen

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:48 am

wellofsouls wrote:
trdaggers wrote:In footwear you get what you pay for. I never in a million years thought I would pay over $400 for a pair of shoes, but I did. With that said, I'm sure a great pair of Indy boots could be made and sold for $200.
You can also get robbed, too. What you say is true - and often I think the difference between a $200 pair of boots and an identical $400 pair of boots from a different maker is probably going to be the name on the box. Now, if you want to sell them a year later, then suddenly that box becomes very important. To me, a $400 pair of Aldens is a quality $200 pair of boots with $200 worth of fashion and name value attached, but then I don't understand the costume aspect of the hobby so I come at it from a different perspective. That's not a value judgement, I'm just sayin'.

I think you hit the nail right on the head. I wish I could have said it as well as you did.
Gailen

What quality/price level do you favor?