Heavy whip?

[MustangLoverMex]

Hello COWers!
This week I received the 9' Del Carpio Bullwhip (GDM) from Paul. It's the very first whip I have in my hands which is SA and made of kangaroo. By far the best.
The question I want to ask all of you is if it's "normal" to feel it real heavy? I was tired after 10 minutes of whip crackin'!
Any advices? Thanks!

- Mike

[tomek9210]

Yep, Indy whips are heavy. 10ft bullwhips' weight comes close to 2 lbs. You'll get used to it soon, few practice sessions and voila. You'll find it quite weird when you switch to lighter whip like stockwhip, it will feel like a feather.

[Canuck Digger]

Yes it is normal; the weight comes from having a lot of leather, a lot of leather dressing in the leather, a steel spike as the handle foundation and lead in the butt end to counter balance the weight of the thong.

You WILL get used to the weight but you may also be over-muscling the whip a bit. Proper technique only requires very minimal force (on a well-made whip, which this IS) to crack. So you might want to review your technique as well...


Franco

[InexorableTash]

And of course your new toy is still stiff and thus requires more effort than a well loved whip, which will wear you out as well.

[MustangLoverMex]

@tomek9210: It's really good to know my friend... I have other whips (not so well made as this one) and they are not as heavy as the Indy one. At least with the other ones I was able to crack them for 15 minutes . Man... I really need to work out!

@Canuck Digger: Actually I read about the steel handle and all that, but I didn't thought it would be as heavy as this one haha. I think you're right about the "over-muscling". In those 10 minutes, I was able to crack the whip about 5 or 6 times really loud, the other ones were fails ... I should check my technique.

@InexorableTash: As a matter of fact it's a used whip, I bought it from Paul through evilBay. But I assure you this one will be a well loved one.

[lantzn]

Hello COWers!
This week I received the 9' Del Carpio Bullwhip (GDM) from Paul. It's the very first whip I have in my hands which is SA and made of kangaroo. By far the best.
The question I want to ask all of you is if it's "normal" to feel it real heavy? I was tired after 10 minutes of whip crackin'!
Any advices? Thanks!

- Mike

I just got my first whip and have practiced a couple of evenings a ended up sweating like a pig after about 15 minutes of continued use. Mines a 10' Jacka CS and it's one heavy mother.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Canuck Digger]

I know about the over-muscling thing because that's what I used to do when I started out with a piece of @#$% whip; it was badly made and so didn't transfer energy as well, and I had no technique worth speaking of. Now all I do is bring my forearm down and it cracks very easily...

Franco

[riku1914]

I know about the over-muscling thing because that's what I used to do when I started out with a piece of @#$% whip; it was badly made and so didn't transfer energy as well, and I had no technique worth speaking of. Now all I do is bring my forearm down and it cracks very easily...

Franco

ditto, my first "whip" was a terrible piece of junk, made from duct tape and cheap hobby lobby scrap leather

[Marhala]

I have a very well broken in DM whip which is about 12 years old. it is heavy, but it doesn't feel like, when you use it. Being so flexible makes it crack easily. Perhaps your Del Carpio will get to that point after some time.


Aldo.

[knibs7]

Pshhh you don't even know about a heavy whip 'til you've handled the Jacka CS!



Kyle

[lantzn]

Pshhh you don't even know about a heavy whip 'til you've handled the Jacka CS!



Kyle

Kyle, how long does it take to "break-in" a whip? My Jacka 10' CS has gone through 2 hands before me, the first owner sold it immediately upon possession for financial reasons and the second owner used it occasionally.

Looking at this video the whip at the handle looks well broken in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcEKj3nKnDQ

Mine is very rigid for quite some length;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35223822@N ... 336430900/

[Canuck Digger]

It depends how often you use it: I have one that after two years of occasional use was still pretty stiff!

[riku1914]

Pshhh you don't even know about a heavy whip 'til you've handled the Jacka CS!



Kyle

Kyle, how long does it take to "break-in" a whip? My Jacka 10' CS has gone through 2 hands before me, the first owner sold it immediately upon possession for financial reasons and the second owner used it occasionally.

Looking at this video the whip at the handle looks well broken in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcEKj3nKnDQ

Mine is very rigid for quite some length;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35223822@N ... 336430900/

The transition on a jacka is supposed to be like that, don't try to make it looser, it will get looser, but you don't want it like a

regular whip.

[knibs7]

Pshhh you don't even know about a heavy whip 'til you've handled the Jacka CS!



Kyle

Kyle, how long does it take to "break-in" a whip? My Jacka 10' CS has gone through 2 hands before me, the first owner sold it immediately upon possession for financial reasons and the second owner used it occasionally.

Looking at this video the whip at the handle looks well broken in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcEKj3nKnDQ

Mine is very rigid for quite some length;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35223822@N ... 336430900/

I used mine pretty much daily for about the first 2 months, then eased up to about once or twice a week. I've had it now for close to 2 years and it's loosened up a lot, but is still a LOT stiffer than my Morgan and my Strain.

Here's a video of when my CS was about 4 months old. You can see how stiff it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi1Sz8JiU84" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Oh and I was 25 lbs heavier in the video LOL)



Kyle

[DarenHenryW]

Just reiterating what's been said, but yeah, your average Indy whip is heavy compared to some, and though your 9' Del Carpio may seem heavy, it is definitely lighter (by a LONG shot) than the Jacka Indy IV. I've have owned a Morgan, Strain, Nolan, Jacka, Del Carpio, and some others, and while the Del Carpio tends to seem heavy, it isn't really any heavier than a Nolan, Morgan or Strain. Terry Jacka's Indy IV, on the other hand, is in a class of its own, and in many ways is NO RELATION to the standard "Morgan" style Indy whip. So though I can see why you might think the Del Carpio is heavy, it weighs pretty much what an Indy whip ought to weigh. Crack a Jacka Indy IV whip some time and you'll forget you EVER said the Del Carpio was heavy.

DHW

[MustangLoverMex]

Just reiterating what's been said, but yeah, your average Indy whip is heavy compared to some, and though your 9' Del Carpio may seem heavy, it is definitely lighter (by a LONG shot) than the Jacka Indy IV. ... Crack a Jacka Indy IV whip some time and you'll forget you EVER said the Del Carpio was heavy.

DHW

I would love to be able to crack a Jacka someday my friend

[DarenHenryW]

I hope you do, and I'm sure one day you will. It truly is a beast though. I had one for nearly two years and I just sold it. I'm happy it's gone to a fellow COW member, but outside of the fact that it was a made by Terry Jacka and therefore so close to the movie whip, I just decided that as much as I love CS (and I really do!), the whip wasn't going to get used, and it didn't mean THAT much to me. Besides, I have a CS whip made by Joe Strain, and it makes me happy. And since also Joe supplied whips to the set as well, I feel like I have the whip that SHOULD have been used, even if it wasn't, or wasn't much . . .

As for the Del Carpio I do think Bernardo's whip are a tad heavier than Joe's and David's, from my experience, but not by much. I hope you become accustomed to your Del Carpio and use it a lot. I think Bernardo makes probably the best Raiders whips out there! Enjoy it!

DHW

[riku1914]

I hope you do, and I'm sure one day you will. It truly is a beast though. I had one for nearly two years and I just sold it. I'm happy it's gone to a fellow COW member, but outside of the fact that it was a made by Terry Jacka and therefore so close to the movie whip, I just decided that as much as I love CS (and I really do!), the whip wasn't going to get used, and it didn't mean THAT much to me. Besides, I have a CS whip made by Joe Strain, and it makes me happy. And since also Joe supplied whips to the set as well, I feel like I have the whip that SHOULD have been used, even if it wasn't, or wasn't much . . .

As for the Del Carpio I do think Bernardo's whip are a tad heavier than Joe's and David's, from my experience, but not by much. I hope you become accustomed to your Del Carpio and use it a lot. I think Bernardo makes probably the best Raiders whips out there! Enjoy it!

DHW

You could always just order a regular whip, but have the binding extended, that way you'd get the "longer handle" feel, but have

a more comfortable grip.

[DarenHenryW]

I hope you do, and I'm sure one day you will. It truly is a beast though. I had one for nearly two years and I just sold it. I'm happy it's gone to a fellow COW member, but outside of the fact that it was a made by Terry Jacka and therefore so close to the movie whip, I just decided that as much as I love CS (and I really do!), the whip wasn't going to get used, and it didn't mean THAT much to me. Besides, I have a CS whip made by Joe Strain, and it makes me happy. And since also Joe supplied whips to the set as well, I feel like I have the whip that SHOULD have been used, even if it wasn't, or wasn't much . . .

As for the Del Carpio I do think Bernardo's whip are a tad heavier than Joe's and David's, from my experience, but not by much. I hope you become accustomed to your Del Carpio and use it a lot. I think Bernardo makes probably the best Raiders whips out there! Enjoy it!

DHW

You could always just order a regular whip, but have the binding extended, that way you'd get the "longer handle" feel, but have

a more comfortable grip.

I'm going to go on record here and say that while I think that Terry is a top quality whip-maker, I really don't care for the "extended" belly. You want more leverage? Get a longer handle . . . the extended belly just makes the whip awkward in my opinion. It loses its fluidity, and thus, I feel, you lose some control.

DHW

[knibs7]

I love my Jacka CS whip, but I'm gonna have to agree with Daren about the "extended" belly. It just doesn't "fall" like the whips in the previous films. Therefore, it always leaves me feeling rather... awkward, wondering how people are going to react if they happen to see me from the side.

For example...



Kyle

[riku1914]

I don't really care how it hangs in a belt

Since the next whip I'm making will be an indy 4, and it will have the extended transition, and a slightly thicker thong than

your average whip ( not average indy whip, just average whip, thicker by 1.5mm, or 1 bolster ) then after I try it, I'll tell you guys

what I think of the extended bound thing here.

[Canuck Digger]

Many years ago, before CS came along, in a "more-is-better" fervor, I'd made a couple of whips with longer and stiffer transitions, and my take is that it's a very different beast than your average bullwhip, but it does give you more "oupf" in a throw by having a certain "spring-like" quality which seems to propel the thong on its own. True, they were longer to break in, and I saw one the other day that's had two owners since I made it, and it was still a very solid, very powerful whip. But mine hangs right on a belt...

So I'm divided on this and at the end of the day, to each his own I say.
Cheers,


Franco

This is it before I redid the butt knot smaller: https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?f ... =1&theater" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[tomek9210]

One more thing about the heavy weight of Indy style whips. You guys tell us that CS whip feels a lot heavier than regular Indy whip. Here is funny thing - CS whips are even lighter than Del Carpio whips. Proof? Look here:

"The weight of the ten ft. whips were averaged over four whips at close to 2 lbs. (906 gm.)." from http://theaustralianwhipco.com/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"This heavy (960 g) whip is a beauty, see it compared to the original: Indiana Jones style bullwhip by David Morgan (12ft). " from http://worldwidewhips.com/collection.ph ... em&lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the weight may be misleading. It's all about the ballance and this is what we should look at when describing the action of a whip.

[DarenHenryW]

One more thing about the heavy weight of Indy style whips. You guys tell us that CS whip feels a lot heavier than regular Indy whip. Here is funny thing - CS whips are even lighter than Del Carpio whips. Proof? Look here:

"The weight of the ten ft. whips were averaged over four whips at close to 2 lbs. (906 gm.)." from http://theaustralianwhipco.com/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"This heavy (960 g) whip is a beauty, see it compared to the original: Indiana Jones style bullwhip by David Morgan (12ft). " from http://worldwidewhips.com/collection.ph ... em&lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the weight may be misleading. It's all about the ballance and this is what we should look at when describing the action of a whip.

Good work, Tomek. Yes, I remember Bernardo actually explaining this to me, so thank you for that, and I agree. I guess by heavy, of course, I mean, how the weight is distributed. In this photo of my (now sold) Indy IV next to my Strain Raiders whip . . .



. . . it's clear to see the difference in size alone. So, while it is apparently true that a "standard" Indy whip, (at least Bernardo's) may be heavier when coiled up, I guarantee you that that the weight of Terry's will feel heavier, and make you much, much more tired, much more rapidly. In my book, it's a poorly designed whip. The David Morgan style, copied so well by Strain, Del Carpio, Nolan, et al, though it has its drawbacks, is a much more fluid and easier to handle whip when compared to the Jacka.

DHW

[DarenHenryW]

Here is a quote from Joe Strain's website regarding his own Indy whips.

"This bullwhip is moderately heavy and very well balanced with the weight carried well out into the thong."

I would agree to this, and though Terry may say the same about his whips, his whips and the whips made by just about every other Indy whip maker in the world are are night and day, in look, weight distribution, core construction, and feel. The quality is there, no doubt; Terry makes a very high quality product, and I think his slimmer, more Australian-style bullwhips are great, but the Indy IV whip was a mistake, in my opinion.

[Canuck Digger]

...but the Indy IV whip was a mistake, in my opinion.

I agree, but the mistake was made by the production for not continuing with the look of Indy's whip! In films there is such a thing as conventions, simply put, those are rules that may or may not, have anything to do with reality (just think of the coyote who doesn't fall until he looks down...), and once a film establishes its conventions, it is usually a bad idea to break them, and in my opinion breaking with the tradition of the Morgan whip was a mistake. This whip was as much a staple of Indy's look at his hat was in Raiders (the proof is they went through a lot of trouble to get a new hat that looked like the Raiders hat in CS), but that is another discussion altogether.
Cheers,

Franco

[kwad]

I made a nylon whip with a 12" handle that feels much heavier when used than it actually is.
When the whip changes direction, the weight of the thong seems to be magnified by the extra leverage in the handle and it really torques your wrist/forearm.

I would assume that the extended transition in the CS whips (which act like a long, springy handle) would give you the same effect.

[Bernardodc]

This thread has turned into an interesting talk, and since one of my whips is discussed, I decided to chime in.

The bullwhip I made for Paul, that now belongs to Mike, is moderately heavy, and was made trying to match the weight of the Morgans made around 2000. I followed the dimensions and proportions a specific Morgan 10 footer that weighed 818g. I checked my notes, and my 9 footer weighs exactly 813 gr. As you can see I got very close. That 10 footer was actually 9' 8", so it is basically 8 inches longer than my 9 footer. Now, my current 10 footers weigh around 870 gr. but the one that Tomek mentioned belongs to Uwe in Germany, was originally made for another person in Germany, and turned out heavier than usual. Assuming the weight of that whip is 960 gr, and assuming that the weight of the Indy 4 Jacka bullwhips is around 900 gr. then we can say that my whip is indeed heavier. But, and this is a big but, on a whip, the overall weight tells you only part of the story.

I took out my own Terry Jacka Indy 4 bullwhip, a beautifuly made 10 foot monster, and put it over my scale: 1070 gr. That is a lot heavier than the 900 gr stated my Terry. Perhaps his whips have gotten heavier? Of those 1070 grams, 40 gr come from the fiberglass handle foundation, and 30 gr from the lead in the knob. That means that there's roughly 1000 gr (1 kilo) of leather out there when we crack. Compare this to the 960 gr 10 footer that Uwe owns. The steel handle weighs aprox. 100 gr. The lead at the butt weighs approx. 150 gr. Doing the math, we come up with 710 grams of leather in the thong. (Obviously there's some leather covering the handle area, but I am not counting that to make things simple). It should be obvious now why the Jacka Indy 4 bulwhip feels a lot heavier: there's around 300 extra grams of leather there!

Balance is a difficult thing to measure in a whip, but we can safely assume that a heavy handle will better balance the moderately heavy thong of the Indy style bullwhip, and that a very light handle will do nothing to balance the very heavy thong of the Indy 4 Jacka. Some people like nose-heavy whips, but that is taken to the extreme in the Indy 4 whip. Who's to blame? maybe Anthony Delongis. I remember I was having a nice phone conversation with David Morgan after the first pics of Indy 4 came out. I was telling him that HF was carrying a Terry Jacka whip, and asked if he planned to sell it along the other Jacka whips he sold. He said "I don't think so". I asked why, and he said "it's better to let the whipmaker do what he likes and does best". Maybe he had a point there.

I think that for the kind of work that Indy does with the bullwhip, Harrison Ford would have been better served with a Morgan style whip. I know that Anthony wanted to incorporate in Harrison's whip vocabulary some intricate crack combos, hence the need for a longer handled bullwhip, but Indy doesn't do that. He ain't Catwoman, to whom Delongis' style was better suited.

Just my 0.2 cents

Bernardo

[Marhala]

I made a nylon whip with a 12" handle that feels much heavier when used than it actually is.
When the whip changes direction, the weight of the thong seems to be magnified by the extra leverage in the handle and it really torques your wrist/forearm.

I would assume that the extended transition in the CS whips (which act like a long, springy handle) would give you the same effect.

That's what I think too. I made a whip with a "Jacka" transition, and it feels horribly nose heavy (for my taste), I then made a lighter whip similar to the Raiders whip and with barely any binding coming off the spike. The first one tires your wrist terribly, the second one, although heavy, is quite more agile than its older brother.

Aldo.

[tomek9210]

I haven't cracked Terry's whips or heavy Indy whips like your Bernardo, (I have rather light 9ft Indy from Kiscien, weighs a bit less than 700 gr and is perfect, because it doesn't tire my arms).

The only way I can imagine them is like wielding a stick with some weight - regular Indy whips would be like having this weight in hand when wielding and CS whips would be like having in hand the other end of stick with the weight far away from my hand.

Of course making it with weight in hand would be way more comfortable, the stick / whip doesn't tend to tear out of my hand.

Imagine carrying over 1000gr whip on a belt, Ford had to fasten buckle in his pants very tighly

[riku1914]

For those of you who didn't see the whip completed, here it is :



I decided to go ahead and just make it raiders style, minus the color of course. But I did make the transition quite stiff. Not as

stiff as a jacka, but still, it barely flexes when I crack it, it's like a 6 or 7 inch extension of the handle.

I mentioned in a previous post on this page I'd weigh in on what I think about it. First, I DID put lead in the heel, so it isn't very

top heavy like a jacka, I'm just commenting on the binding extension.

I must say I don't really like. The whip cracks well and all that, the transition being so stiff just feels kind of awkward... That's

all I can really say right now, just feels kind of weird...

[kwad]

The only way I can imagine them is like wielding a stick with some weight - regular Indy whips would be like having this weight in hand when wielding and CS whips would be like having in hand the other end of stick with the weight far away from my hand.

I think Tomek described the effects of a longer handle/extended belly perfectly with this statement.

After a recent wrist injury, I have seriously given some thought about the balance of whips vs. handle length/leverage.
I think the two are very much tied together. Long handles and "nose heavy" just don't go together.

[Marhala]

Well said, Kwad! Couldn't agree with you more.


Aldo.