It's not the size of the barrel that counts...

Illinois Troy · Post by **Illinois Troy** » Sun Jul 21, 2002 4:10 pm

Where's a good place to start looking for a 4 inch barrel replacement for the pending arrival of my S & W He 2? I like my original, but want that Raiders barrel. I've been digging around, but to no avail so I was wondering if someone had some, "vital piece of evidence which eludes" me or any kick in the right direction.

- Illinois

Magnum · Post by **Magnum** » Sun Jul 21, 2002 10:51 pm

I would go around to local gunshops, specifically the shops that have gunsmithing on the premises, and ask there. It's your surest bet and it is a lot easier than trying to do business over the internet or over the phone. Hope this helps you in your quest.

Illinois Troy · Post by **Illinois Troy** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 1:26 am

The problem seems to be that this is a collectors gun and parts are hard to come by, but I can't imagine something like this is nonexistent. I'm just wondering if any of us knows a particular shop or phone number to call. As if finding a HE 2 wasn't hard enough...a 4 inch barrel, sheesh

.

- Illinois

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 12:42 pm

I read where some gunsmiths can cut the barrel down (IF you wanted to do that) and bevel the edges look like it was done at the factory. I figure if you could find the Joe Jr. equivilant to guns, then you could be in great shape. Just a thought.

Illinois Troy · Post by **Illinois Troy** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 6:57 pm

I had thought about that at first, but Michaelson suggested I look for another barrel (see topic,'anyone catch the number on that S&W'). I would rather do that than have to damage the barrel original to my S&W, or maybe find another S&W barrel and have it smithed down to 4 inches. The problem has just been locating one.

- Illinois

Peacock's Eye · Post by **Peacock's Eye** » Tue Jul 23, 2002 1:19 pm

You might also try looking through ads in"Shotgun News" or "Gun List" for replacement barrels. I think there's a gun parts link on the Indygear site.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jul 23, 2002 1:20 pm

....Gun Parts. Corp. in West Hurley, NY. 914-679-2417. They may be a source, or may offer a lead. Regards. Michaelson

Illinois Troy · Post by **Illinois Troy** » Tue Jul 23, 2002 1:22 pm

I checked the link for E-gun parts on the Indygear site, but it doesn't seem to be working. Thanks for the heads up though.

- Illinois

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Thu Aug 08, 2002 12:44 pm

Don't cut the barrel down. I had a buddy find me a 4" barrel and he said there are plenty of them out there. Drop me an Email if you need to know where he found it. However, a 4" barrel isn't what Indy is running on his S&W. It's more like a 2 or 2 1/2". So you can get the 4" and then cut that down. I'm thinking of doing that. My buddy put the 4 incher on and I saved the large original barrel, but now I'm thinking of asking him to cut the 4 incher down.

Mike

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Aug 08, 2002 12:53 pm

Where did you get the 2 or 2.5 inch measurement for the Indy revolver? The real revolvers have been seen and handled. A picture of one lurks in the main FAQ area. It's a 4 inch barrel! Do NOT cut the barrel to 2 or 2.5 inches! It will be to short, and you'll have ruined a potential 4 inch replacement.

Regards. Michaelson

Illinois Troy · Post by **Illinois Troy** » Thu Aug 08, 2002 3:00 pm

I never saw that Number for Gun parts corp. Glad I checked back here. Thanks Michaelson.

- Illinois

Magnum · Post by **Magnum** » Thu Aug 08, 2002 3:24 pm

Imahomer,

I'd like to know where you got the 4 inch barrel replacement. Please do tell. Thanks.

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Fri Aug 09, 2002 2:42 pm

This is my Smith with the newly added 4" barrel.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Aug 09, 2002 3:07 pm

WOW!!!

I'm envious! That is a BEAUTIFUL Smith! High regards. Michaelson

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 12:01 am

Is it just me or does that barrel look longer than 4 inches? It certainly looks longer than the one used in Raiders. But I am also envious. It looks like you truely scored big on this one.

Illinois Troy · Post by **Illinois Troy** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 1:36 am

That looks like the standard barrel to me. Great piece you got there.
How much did it set you back, if you don't mind me asking?

- Illinois

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 2:48 pm

The barrel is a 4" for sure. If you'd like I can post another photo with the old 6" barrel next to the gun with it's new 4" barrel. I agree though, it looks long as compared to photos of the 4 incher Indy carried. To me the photos make his Smith look more like a 2 1/2" barrel.

Anyway, this 4" barrel was under $70.00. The instalation was done for free, because a buddy did that for me. You'd have to find a gun smith to take care of it. The blueing on the new barrel looks just a tad different than the blueing on the gun, but it's so minor, you'd really have to look hard to notice.
Mike

Illinois Troy · Post by **Illinois Troy** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 3:10 pm

Yeah, If you wouldn't mind I'd like to see the 6 inch picture with the 4 inch. Thanks for offering.

- Illinois

schwammy · Post by **schwammy** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 4:13 pm

Hey, imahomer, what caliber is that S&W?

I was wondering if perhaps it was a smaller caliber than the .45 Indy carried -- maybe a .38? I really don't know that much about it, but I though a narrower barrel would look longer and might explain the seeming discrepency.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 11:50 pm

Perhaps you can post a pic of the barrel next to a ruler. I'm sorry, but it just looks too long to be the Raiders barrel. Michaelson? Answers? Am I seeing an illusion here?

Illinois Troy · Post by **Illinois Troy** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 1:53 am

I was just checking some pics and S&W info and that is a four inch barrel. Sorry if I doubted you.

Which leads me to ask agent5's question over again. What's with the Raiders gun. Does that make it a 2 inch barrel? There seems to be a descrepancy here.

- Illinois

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 1:53 pm

Well here is the Smith with it's 4" barrel and the original 6" barrel next to it. It does look nice, no two ways about it, however it is definately a longer barrel than the one you see Indy with. Again, IMHO his looks like it has about a 2 1/2" barrel. By the way... it is a 45.

Mike

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Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 2:05 pm

Again... It's simply IMHO, but you be the judge. This is from the Indy Gear page. Looks definately shorter, doesn't it?????

Mike

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FloatinJoe · Post by **FloatinJoe** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:49 pm

Mike,
Could you change take another shot of the pistol with the two barrels. This time don't align the end of the barrels, align where they attach to the pistol. And if you could get a ruler in there measuring from the same spot. This way we can have a better visual of the length.

Thanks,
Mike

Rabittooth · Post by **Rabittooth** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 6:17 pm

It's longer than the movie gun.

-Rabittooth

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 7:04 pm

I agree that it is longer than the movie gun. Hopefully all these photos support that. My question is why is it everyone is saying it's a 4" barrel, when clearly it isn't. I've always been unclear on this. I've viewed the photos on Indy gear and to me they were clearly showing a short barreled revolver. When I got my 4" barrel installed it was even clearer to me that no way was that the same length as the gun shown on Indy gear. I've read on here and elsewhere postings that claim Indys gun to have a 4" barrel and this was said by people who know what they are talking about. So... I'm confused and very interested in what others have to say on this topic.

Mike

FloatinJoe · Post by **FloatinJoe** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 9:53 pm

I'm looking at the picture of with the original barrel in it and the replacement really looks like a 5" barrel. And then if you look at the image that Rabittooth put together, if your barrel was an inch shorter, it'd be about right.

Once again, if you could get a pic with a ruler in it, some of this debate could be eliminated. Also, when measuring the length of a barrel on a revolver, the length is determined by measuring from the inside of the frame to the muzzle. That is why I am asking for a pic with the ruler so that everyone can see the image and we can all be on the same page when measuring.

Mike

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:10 am

I'll try to get another photo, but do you really think there is one inch differnece between the image that Rabittooth put together and my barrel???? It does depend on the angle and such, but I'm not seeing a one inch difference.

LOL... It is fun to kick it around though.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 9:44 am

...you know there were two movie guns. This one was the firing version that is shown, and had the barrel bobbed and the barrel cap added, so it's a 'Frankinstein' version anyway. His non-firing 'show piece' was a true 4 inch Smith barreled revolver. Rgards. Michaelson

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:44 pm

Just so I'm clear Michaelson.... The gun shown in Indy Gear is the the "bobbed" version (perhaps a 2 1/2")? And that was the one he fired? The 4" was one he didn't fire? I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to it as a 'show piece'. It's getting clearer for me, but it is still confusing.

Mike

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 3:51 pm

The barrel actually extends through the cap at the end of the barrel, so if anything, the shown barrel is at least 3 3/4 inches, even using Rabittooth's side by side pic. As to the 'showpiece' deal, Ford used two revolvers...the one pictured is the .45 ACP firing weapon that was used for the firing situations, but the close up shots such as the revolver handed to Belloq at the temple, or the close up shot of his revolver taken out of the rag in his home was a .455 Smith HE. I have always said that there HAD to be a third revolver, as the firing revolver used on the flying wing or the one fired in the basket chase does NOT have the cap on the end of the barrel, but is also a true 4 incher. I even think it may be a later model as it appeared to me to have a cylinder pin shroud under the barrel when seen firing at the lock on the flying wing canopy. Either way, the revolver(s) seen in those mentioned scenes as well as the close up shots were true 4 inch barreled revolvers, and the 'stunt' revolver is the one seen in the picture above. This information was supplied by the rental company (through our good friend Lee Kepler, less my 3rd revolver theory) that the stunt revolver was acquired from in Hollywood. Regards. Michaelson p.s. the length of a barrel is measured from the end of the forcing cone in front of the cylinder to the end of the barrel for the correct barrel length and not from the front of the frame.

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 6:35 pm

OK. I think I've got it now!!! Thank you Michaelson for clearing up that which had been unclear. Now on to L.K. for a holster.

Mike

Illinois Troy · Post by **Illinois Troy** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 6:42 pm

p.s. the length of a barrel is measured from the end of the forcing cone in front of the cylinder to the end of the barrel for the correct barrel length and not from the front of the frame.

Aaaahhh...thanks for that tidbit. Just when I was going to post a question about it, too. A moderator w/ ESP ability...

.

- Illinois

falconau · Post by **falconau** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 10:30 pm

I don't think the barrel is any longer than 3 inches. The muzzle only extends less than an inch from the ejector steady.

To help me with a barrel conversion I'm doing at the moment, could somebody please tell me the outside diameter of a .45 S&W barrel.
Preferably in millimeters.

Thanks ~ falconau

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 11:32 pm

OK. Enough of this. What the #### do I ask for if I want the barrel to look EXACTLY as the one in the Raven Bar scene like the pic provided?

Illinois Troy · Post by **Illinois Troy** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 12:45 am

I'm interested in this answer as well. This post has turned into a game of ping pong.

Also, are medallion grips trademark of the aforementioned gun in Agent5's post.

- Illinois

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 9:12 am

....like we've been saying above....WHICH revolver are you wanting to duplicate? The revolver with the added end piece, or the 4 inch version? I still say you're best served with the 4 inch request, as reproduced on Imahomer's fine example. Regards. Michaelson

Illinois Troy · Post by **Illinois Troy** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 11:45 am

The Michaelson twins speak!

Sorry, the double post hit me just right.

Now, my question is, how does changing a barrel effect firing the weapon in relation to or the firearm as a whole? Does it have any effect apart from weight differential?

- Illinois

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 12:12 pm

Not sure why the double post either.

Yes, the shorter the barrel, the lower the fps of the bullet from barrel to target. Most of your powder is burned at 4 inches in a smaller caliber and the shorter the barrel, the more unburned powder gets blown out the barrel before full combustion has taken place. In magnums, especially 44 calibers, the rule of thumb is 5 inches. That's why the Ruger Redhawk 'short' barrel comes in a 5 inch tube, as opposed to the standard 4 inch, as offered by Smith and Wesson on their Model 29. The .357 reaches full power at 4 inches, not that we were talking about the .357 (grins). Where the HE isn't a magnum, it's still a large caliber revolver, and you'll find most large old revolvers such as the HE or the Colt New Service came standard in a 5 inch length due to this powder burn scenario. This particular item refers to smokeless power too, not black powder. The longer the tube, the pressure rises, powder is fully burned, and the site radus is greatly improved. That's why target pistols are long barreled, not just for the longer sight radus, but they are receiving full benefit of a full burn of the gun powder. The best 'fighting' barrel length is 4 inches, though, as it's the minimum length for powder burn, and also allows ease for manuvering the revolver. Hope I didn't beat this horse to death. Regards. Michaelson

Illinois Troy · Post by **Illinois Troy** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 2:51 pm

No, I'm glad you posted that. That answers a lot of my why, what, and how questions. I don't think you can be over informed when it comes to firearms queries. Thanks.

- Illinois

schwammy · Post by **schwammy** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 1:50 am

Oh, man, Michaelson, that's great stuff!

manobles1 · Post by **manobles1** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 9:59 pm

Rabittoth's picture makes it much easier to compare. I thought Indy's .45 looked like a 4" to 4 1/2", but NOW I think it is 2". It looks like the barrel was cut off just behind the front site. I've got a 4" .38SP in my hand, it looks like Imahomer's gun. Any other comparasion pics out there?

manobles1 · Post by **manobles1** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 11:12 am

I forgot to add, that I think the 4" barrel looks better and would be more accurate.

Oklahoma Jones · Post by **Oklahoma Jones** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 10:37 pm

Michaelson, is it possible the 'Frankenstein' gun is shorter for a more spectacular smoking effect when fired?

It's not the size of the barrel that counts...

It's not the size of the barrel that counts...

Check with

Huh?

All I can say is...

Of course...

Correct

Uh....well....

It sure can

short barrel