Bantu Wind-ish, Todd's jacket thread...

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:27 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:it is, the only thing I don't like so much are the Tri glides.

I am thinking about swapping them but havent bene able to wear leather jackets much now since it summer and all so I haven't bothered.

swapping with rectangular slider, or brass D rings. that would give a cool look I beleive.

always like the look of D rings on a raiders jacket.

Hey Holt,

I'm sure you have plenty, but if not I just took some D-rings off my HH wested. I'll mail 'em to ya if ya want.

Cheers,
Mike

Post by **Holt** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:29 pm

thanks Mike but I do have plenty. too many in fact. I'm trying to get rid of some myself. lol.

thanks again

Post by **Holt** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:30 pm

btw,

did you get your jacket already

Pics?

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:43 pm

I've had it for awhile, but I haven't taken any pics of it yet...it's like all the rest. I like it but miss my standard though that I recently sold to another member. The hides are different, the standard was softer but felt stronger and was even a few ounces lighter so it was great.

what i love about the Bantu is that it doesn't "bell" at the bottom like my standard did when worn too high on my shoulders (off the shoulders it looked perfect!)

I wanted to take pictures of my Bantu when it was new, but we couldn't find the camera and when we did the batteries were dead, etc, etc.

I have a new LINDER that I've been wanting to photograph too

But now that my Bantu has been worn tons and tons, a couple real rain showers too I'll try to take some pics soon.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:29 pm

Is the new run of Std's available now? The Linder is truely a keeper.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:39 pm

_, I appreciate your experience with the leather shrinking and the sharing of said experience. But, my experience has been different.

First, we make armor from vegetable tanned leather with nothing but hot water. No heat applied afterwards at all. Just hot water at 150 - 160 degrees for about five minutes. By varying the temperature, you can control the hardness. A little too hot - say 170 degrees, and it's rock hard. Too hard - it'll break if you bend it.

I've cooked jackets by drying them too hot, and nothing restores them. No amount of Pecards is going to uncook it. It's like trying to add water to a piece of toast to make it soft bread again. I've also cooked jackets with a steamer trying to remove wrinkles. I have one jacket that was hardened so badly that I applied Pecard's with a paintbrush every week for several months to try to soften it again. Now it's flexible again, but doesn't have the same soft feel that it had before I dried it too hot.

Maybe there's a proper way to use heat, maybe the species and tannage make all the difference, but because of these experiences I recommend not to use more than mild heat. I don't want to be responsible if someone boils their jacket and it turns into a leather sculpture.

Here's an article that seem to mirror my own experience:
http://www.squidoo.com/how-leather-shoe ... ed-by-heat
-Todd

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:14 pm

Hey Mr. Puppetboy, just came from your site and I was wondering

, have you posted new pic's of the standard. The one where your holding the staff of Ra, well the leather looks kinda like the BW leather.

I very much want to get me a Todds standard in size M, but I'm holding out for the same leather used for the BW jacket. Any idea how long I'll have to wait. Size L just aint gonna do it.

Croft

Post by **Holt** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:53 pm

just get an L allready and shrink the bejezes out of it.

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:37 pm

Nope, not gonna do it.

I'll wait.
That and keep my eye on the bazzar for some one who's willing to let one go on the cheap.
Holt, I just that the L would really be to L for my frame, and I don't think I could shrink it that much.
I'll take Puppetboys advice about heat on his type of leather, being thin and all, it might not be able to handle it, no offense Puppetboy, you know your leather.
The US SL, being thicker, can take more abuse, after I threw it in the dryer, ya it came out stiff, scary stiff, but I did hit it w/some Pecards and now it has loosened up. Kinda like a new jacket, has that awsome leather creak.

Croft

Indiana Jake · Post by **Indiana Jake** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:41 pm

Raidersbash wrote:

I have a new LINDER that I've been wanting to photograph too

On a side note, what is the Linder Jacket you refer to? Style?

Thanks,

Jake

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:58 pm

I think he might be refering to the Linder, close enough knife.

http://www.worldknives.com/products/lin ... -1986.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or it could be a mfg. we've never heard before.

Croft

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:14 am

DeWayne wrote:Had a chance encounter with Kwad earlier tonight at Disneyland. We were both wearin' our Todd's (I have more than I care to admit....) It was nice to met a fellow gearhead and I must say his Bantu Wind is an excellent looking jacket!

Hey DeWayne,

Nice running into you. Hope you and the Mrs. had a good time at the mouse-house.

raider 57 · Post by **raider 57** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:19 am

Tennessee Smith wrote:Allright, this goes out to everyone on this thread that bought this jacket to distress it for that "perfect" jacket. I've seen no pics

Where's the wash pics?

Where's the sandpaper pics?

Anyone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller?

TS,
I'm planning on heavily distressing my Bantu, but want to break it in/ wrinkle it up good from wearing it first.
I think the distressing will look more natural then. Haven't really had the time to work on it either. Only been soaking it down some with water.

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:22 am

Indiana Jake wrote:Raidersbash wrote:

I have a new LINDER that I've been wanting to photograph too

On a side note, what is the Linder Jacket you refer to? Style?

Thanks,

Jake

Indiana Croft wrote:I think he might be refering to the Linder, close enough knife.

http://www.worldknives.com/products/lin ... -1986.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or it could be a mfg. we've never heard before.

Croft

It's the knife. Sorry to have slightly derailed the thread (but the knife is sweeeet).

Indyzane · Post by **Indyzane** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:32 am

RaidersBash wrote:I've had it for awhile, but I haven't taken any pics of it yet...it's like all the rest. I like it but miss my standard though that I recently sold to another member. The hides are different, the standard was softer but felt stronger and was even a few ounces lighter so it was great.

what i love about the Bantu is that it doesn't "bell" at the bottom like my standard did when worn too high on my shoulders (off the shoulders it looked perfect!)

I wanted to take pictures of my Bantu when it was new, but we couldn't find the camera and when we did the batteries were dead, etc, etc.

I have a new LINDER that I've been wanting to photograph too

But now that my Bantu has been worn tons and tons, a couple real rain showers too I'll try to take some pics soon.

I was wondering about the whole "bell thing" myself, very well said. That's the only thing I didn't like about my Standard jacket. That's music to my ears!

fenris · Post by **fenris** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:25 pm

okay... I'm new to the jacket section. What does "bell" mean? Is it the one where it flares up and outwards when you raise your arms to the side?

Indyzane · Post by **Indyzane** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:58 pm

fenris wrote:okay... I'm new to the jacket section. What does "bell" mean? Is it the one where it flares up and outwards when you raise your arms to the side?

Yes. On the bottom of the jacket especially in the front zipper area.

Joeyeah_right · Post by **Joeyeah_right** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:52 pm

Finally got my XL jacket! - It arrived into UK customs on May 27th and has been sitting there for a week before they send out the letter saying I have to pay a customs charge, then, once i pay they post it out on Monday and the mailman attempted to deliver it on Tuesday but of course both me and my wife work Monday to Fridays so no one was home to receive it so i had to wait until today when i could go to the post office and collect it.

Well, the fit of the XL is SO much better than the L (which my wife loves and has kept for herself), and now I have my second Indy jacket and my wife has her first so we have matching jackets!

Anyway, without further ado, a couple of shots of me wearing the jacket:

As you can see it is a much better fit than the Large i had before. I may need to get the sleeves let out a bit, if i can. they could do with being an inch or two longer, and there is definitely enough leather in the sleeves to give me an inch or maybe an inch-and-a-half, so if i can find a tailor who is willing to give it a go i will probably do that. Other than that I am very happy with the jacket!

Joe

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:05 pm

Looks good, you can probably get some use out of it already in the UK.

singsingjohnny · Post by **singsingjohnny** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:33 pm

Very nice Joeyeah, fits great, looks awesome! Congrats and enjoy.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:38 pm

Mate, don't do it all the way up! LOL. Pllllleeeeze!!

Joeyeah_right · Post by **Joeyeah_right** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:32 pm

Kt Templar wrote:Mate, don't do it all the way up! LOL. Pllllleeeeze!!

I know! It looks horrible doesn't it?
I just wanted to make sure it wasn't too tight like the Large was. Normally i always leave the jacket un-zipped.

Joe

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:50 pm

Joeyeah_right wrote: I may need to get the sleeves let out a bit, if i can. they could do with being an inch or two longer, and there is definitely enough leather in the sleeves to give me an inch or maybe an inch-and-a-half, so if i can find a tailor who is willing to give it a go i will probably do that. Other than that I am very happy with the jacket!

Joe

A good trick worth trying before calling in the tailor to lengthen your sleeves is a really simple water stretch. This leather stretches real nice. I've posted this method before in another thread, did it myself on my Todd's standard and would highly recommend it on your Bantu.

Find a large size water bottle, gatorade bottle or similiar: something that can be inserted into the sleeve through the arm hole, but because of the taper head of the bottle, wedge itself into the cuff.

Soak the sleeves to the point they are, well, soaked...dripping if you prefer.

Insert bottles with just enough fluid inside to add maybe a pound of weight. That's probably more than necessary, but go ahead and be like Indy, dump some out until you think it's enough. You're really just looking for tension to keep the leather from shrinking or returning to it's original length.

Make sure the inside liner isn't bunching up at the cuffs. Your limit of stretch is the amount of "free" liner material in the sleeve. Any that is bunched up in the cuff is going to limit your gains.

Hang till dry.

I think you should gain up to 2 inches without much problem.

An easy test is to just get the sleeves wet and put the jacket on. I bet the cuffs will end up at almost your knuckles. You can guage from that if you'll gain enough, and if too much only allow it to dry to a point under light weight, then take the weights away and let it dry the rest on it's own.

Hope that helps.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:38 pm

....of course, if you screw up your sleeves doing that, your tailor may or may NOT be able to do anything for you after the damage is done....but that's your call. Not all leathers stretch the same, even when made by the same manufacturer.

Heck, even the sleeve grains could go in a different direction leaving you with one long sleeve, and one unchanged. Not a good situation there....

If it were MY jacket, I'd ask the tailor for a quote first...THEN decide if it's worth having the work done or trying the stretch trick, as if the tailor CAN'T do anything (or it costs more than it's worth), you have nothing to lose.

Just saying....

Regards! Michaelson

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:30 pm

You're also making the leather weaker by stretching it. And if the 'Bantu' leather is anything like the Standard, it's plenty thin enough already.
Just buy a jacket that fits..

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:40 pm

Hey Joe! Glad the XL is a better fit. The cuffs should end at the first knuckle of the thumb for that coveted Indy fit, and as usual, 'M' brings ya' some good advice. Mine also has some slack in the cuffs and no doubt a taylor can get that little issue resolved for you. Still, more like the Indy look and fit we are accustomed to. Wear it in good health.

PS: Is that the Death Star orbiting your Fed. IV? The resulting gravitational pull might cause a headache! Just sayin'....

Timmythekid · Post by **Timmythekid** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:09 am

Anyone perhaps have advice on getting a little more length out of the body of the jacket? Beautiful fit, except that on me the waist seems to come up just ever so slightly shorter than I'd like.

CRB · Post by **CRB** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:23 am

Hi - are the zips silver or brass on these, I cant tell ?

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:25 pm

Timmythekid wrote:Anyone perhaps have advice on getting a little more length out of the body of the jacket? Beautiful fit, except that on me the waist seems to come up just ever so slightly shorter than I'd like.

Same as above. Wet the panel you want longer, find something to clip to it (I've used speed clamps for woodworking) and hang a gentle weight to it.

Funny, there is post after post after post about water treatments and using water to reshape leather, but when I mention getting the sleeves wet ALL OF A SUDDEN it's CRAZY TALK and jackets will be ruined if water is used and grains will twist , etc,etc.

This is common experience that ANYONE who has ever worn a leather jacket in a heavy rain can attest to - the sleeves (and body) get longer.

All that's being said is get the sleeves wet, they will naturally be longer and you can try it on and see, and then gently coercing them to stay that way.

If not, let them dry back naturally

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:02 pm

The zipper teeth appear to be brass and zipper pull is a dull silver metal alloy resembling aluminum, that's the best way I can describe it.

As to the jacket's length of torso, if a jacket is that short, it might be best to list the jacket in the bazaar and to get the next size up. Thing is, there is about a one inch difference in length between the XL and XXL for instance. My XL measures 26" in back length.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:21 pm

RaidersBash wrote: Funny, there is post after post after post about water treatments and using water to reshape leather, but when I mention getting the sleeves wet ALL OF A SUDDEN it's CRAZY TALK and jackets will be ruined if water is used and grains will twist , etc,etc.

This is common experience that ANYONE who has ever worn a leather jacket in a heavy rain can attest to - the sleeves (and body) get longer.

On the contrary, I have adviced against THAT kind of 'fix' for years, and will continue to do so.

So no, you're not the only one who I've posted after regarding doing this to sleeves without consulting with a tailor first, as the oriignal poster was thinking of originally doing.

This recommended technique:

Insert bottles with just enough fluid inside to add maybe a pound of weight. That's probably more than necessary, but go ahead and be like Indy, dump some out until you think it's enough. You're really just looking for tension to keep the leather from shrinking or returning to it's original length.

Make sure the inside liner isn't bunching up at the cuffs. Your limit of stretch is the amount of "free" liner material in the sleeve. Any that is bunched up in the cuff is going to limit your gains.

Hang till dry.

...is a far cry different than just 'walking in the rain' or hopping in and out of a shower.

You're also limited to the amount of strain the seams can stand at the attachment point of sleeve to shoulder when weight is applied like that. They were never designed to be abused like that.

More than only member here has 'cried the blues' to us AND vendors when they suddenly discovered a ripped seam after the jacket has dried and they tried their jackets on for the first time.

So, forewarned is forearmed.

Regards! Michaelson

Joeyeah_right · Post by **Joeyeah_right** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:14 pm

Thanks for the advice Michaelson!

I shall seek a tailor's advice first to see what they can do (and how much it will cost) and go from here.

Regards
Joe

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:49 pm

Joe,

If you are feeling adventurous, you could lengthen the sleeves yourself.
I did mine, and it was quite easy.

I got the cuffs nice and wet to help loosen up the adhesive holding it in place.
After a couple of minutes, I slowly pulled the folded edge of the cuff out.
Then it was just a matter of measuring and refolding the cuff.
Once you get it where you need it, just refold the cuff. While it is still wet, pinch the new crease until it is sharp. Or better yet, lay it flat and stack some old books or any flat and heavy object on the top until it dries.
Once dry, the new creases should stay by themselves, or you can add a tack stitch (I hid the stitches on my cuffs in the seams). Another option is to glue the cuffs down with rubber cement, but that would require opening the liner.

Whether you decide to do it yourself, or have the tailor do it, I'd also recommend wearing the jacket for a week or two first. That way you can measure and cuff after the jacket has already wrinkled up at the elbows so that you can get a perfect fit.

Adirondack Jones · Post by **Adirondack Jones** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:31 pm

I actually shortened the sleeves on my old Disney jacket by just folding them over onto themselves and then setting the hem with some weight overnight. I stood me in good stead for the better part of fifteen years.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:20 pm

You're also limited to the amount of strain the seams can stand at the attachment point of sleeve to shoulder when weight is applied like that. They were never designed to be abused like that.

RaidersBash suggested about a pound of weight - I think "abuse" might be a strong word for it. But it is true, the sleeves will not stretch that much in length because of the seams. Of course, use common sense and don't pull too hard.

One benefit of doing this is (if you wet the body as well) you can get a nice fit around the shoulders, which will lower the sleeves on your arm a little bit. You'll have to put it on periodically while it dries and tug on the cuffs a little. This way it will conform to your shoulders until it dries.

There's a tremendous amount of disagreement here, even though using water on leather jackets has been discussed here for years. Maybe there should be a "water treatment" thread so folks can share their experience and photos of the results. Especially instructive would be negative results so folks know what not to do. The results should speak for themselves, shouldn't they?

-Todd

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:28 pm

Puppetboy wrote:RaidersBash suggested about a pound of weight - I think "abuse" might be a strong word for it. -Todd

I don't think so, but we'll agree to disagree.

Stretching the leather wasn't the issue. Hanging weights from the sleeves was.

I've received too many PM's and emails from folks over the years who HAVE ripped out seams using this method asking me what they could to 'fix' the damage.

My reply? 'Not much'.

Regards! Michaelson

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:47 pm

C'mon, Michaelson! I've eaten hamburgers that weigh more. I was really, really full, but I don't think they were heavy enough to hurt my jacket.

Trying to modify a leather jacket like this is not without risks! Neither is distressing with sandpaper, acetone, sandblasting, or heavy doses of radiation. You may end up with a Quasimodo jacket - an unnatural evil that will need to be burned at the stake. No, really, if you're not willing to wreck your jacket, don't risk it.

-Todd

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:50 pm

I think it only a good idea to error on the side of conservatism when doing things to a leather jacket, due to the fact that it is organic material and animal skin. Obviously, if it truely is a beater, then that is another matter. Depends on intended use. Water is the most radical form of treatment that I use on a jacket, and even then, under controlled circumstances. Sandpaper, knife, etc., you have to know what you are doing before passing the point of no return. The thread is the only binding that holds the strips of leather together. Show your lamb, goat and cow some LUV.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:58 pm

Puppetboy wrote:C'mon, Michaelson! I've eaten hamburgers that weigh more. I was really, really full, but I don't think they were heavy enough to hurt my jacket.

-Todd

So have I, and you should see my middle now!

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:21 pm

Neither is distressing with sandpaper, acetone, sandblasting, or heavy doses of radiation.

Since I have never subscribed to ANY of those suggested possiblilties that Todd posts above, my stand is consistant with everything I've stated for the past 15+ years regarding care of gear....especially me standing by my suggestion of taking the subject jacket to a tailor and fixing the sleeves to the proper length.

Sorry my suggestion isn't considered conventional 'wisdom'. Take it for whatever it's worth then, but that's just the way I roll, fellas.

Michaelson

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:17 pm

A pound might sound a little heavy...like I said in the original post. Instead of 16 ozs, I think I used about 8oz in each sleeve...maybe less.

Heck, an orange or ball of some sort would work.

I think leather in general is stronger than what it's being given credit for. Leather seats are thin and stretched to shape. I have a pair of leather pants that I've abused the heck out of for over 15 years, pooring rain, etc, etc and they're still in great shape (and they stretch every time I bend down or over, etc, etc.)

When a jacket is soaking wet, like it becomes in a heavy rain, the sleeves already weigh more than I'm suggesting and the seams hold up.

If seams are ripping, my guess would be the weight being applied is excessive.

But my final word on this is to each his own and like Michaelson said, we can agree to disagree.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:57 pm

Michaelson, I was actually agreeing with you. Take it to a tailor unless you are willing to risk ruining your jacket. Put a hamburger in your sleeve at your own risk.

And thanks for the warning about your middle. I'll keep that image with me all the way to the therapist.

-Todd

Maybe _ should have a YouTube channel called "Xtreme Distressing". He could whip the jacket off of a stranger in a public place and throw it in a fountain, under cars, into kennels full of crazed Pit Bulls, into a street vendor's flaming wok, etc. Just thinking.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:18 pm

Puppetboy wrote:And thanks for the warning about your middle. I'll keep that image with me all the way to the therapist.

-Todd

Indiana Joyce · Post by **Indiana Joyce** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:42 pm

Looks like the XXL is no longer available:(

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:29 pm

Just say a few hail Indy's and run around the block a few times. This will absolve you of your lustful jacket cravings.

Indiana Joyce · Post by **Indiana Joyce** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:13 am

Ha, never. I guess I waited too long for this one. Sigh. I love my Todd's jacket and wear it more than my Wested, so I sold it, now I only have the the Todd's and the Wested TOD and I'm thinking of getting rid of that one too. Kicking myself for not acting when I got the facebook notification that he was selling these. I had hoped that with the placing the seams in a different spot that the shoulders and sleeves would sit differently on me, causing the back to look better. That and like the rest of us Im a sucker for gear and I havent bought anything Indy related in like a year, Hey it's been months since I logged in here!

Cassidy · Post by **Cassidy** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:19 am

I couldn't help myself and I ordered one of the 2nd's. It'll be my first Indiana Jones jacket since my late 90's Wested.

Problem is they only had the large available and I'm 6 foot even.

So if it doesn't fit it'll go up in the bazaar at cost but I can't wait to see it!

Post by **Holt** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:20 am

what size

Cassidy · Post by **Cassidy** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:32 am

Indiana Holt wrote:what size

L - I'm sure it'll be close but I couldn't sit on the deal any longer...

Post by **Holt** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:50 am

I hope it fits.