UK work-around

[enigmata_wood]

Here in the UK realistic replica guns af any sort - basically anything that can possibly be adapted for firing live rounds - are now illegal unless you can prove you need them for theatrical or re-enactment use.
This is a GOOD thing but a bugger for us.
Blue or orange plastic is about the best you can get that isn't a scaled down child's toy.
However, die-cast metal cap guns are still to be had full size because they cannot be adapted for live rounds.
I'm going to look around the internet for one with aproximately the right profile to Indy's S&W and try to replace the plastic handgrips with home made wood and something vaguely S&W badge like. I may also make other 'near enough' changes.
I'm also going to experiment with how to get the biggest bang possible from the commercially available caps - for performance use only of course.
I'll keep a progress record and if it comes out half decent I'll post it as a 'how to'.

[Kt Templar]

Unfortunately, even if it 'looks' too much like a real gun it is covered by the ban. That's why airsoft has fallen foul of this law.

Quite frustrating really. Our hobby should fall under the re-enacting and theatrical exclusion, but good luck on getting someone to sell you a replica based on that.

[djd]

Absolutely right KT. Even cap guns are covered by the latest law. It's even an offence to paint a toy gun to make it look something like a real one. Ironically though you CAN own a real deactivated firearm still, but of course they are expensive. If you going to hold up a bank you can still do so provided you invest in an expensive toy rather than a cheap one! I'm no fan of mass gun ownership but the latest change to the law is dumb and utterly OTT

[enigmata_wood]

All these patched together laws could be replaced by a MUCH tighter control of the illegal import and sale of ammunition. - no bullets = no casual gun crime. If the armed forces and police were confident no one else but the most organised hardened crims had ammunition, a lot of shootings of [stupid show-off] civilians would not happen.
Anyway, back on topic. My point is the cap gun will be used specifically for events such as theatrical events - carnivals etc.- where Indy makes an appearance, so it will be legal. I also need it for Murder Mystery Nights I arrange.

[djd]

Yes you should be fine for that provided you can demonstrate that that's what your doing at the time. As I say, it's daft. The real purpose behind this seems to be to give the police an excuse to arrest the bad guys when they're driving round town with fake guns in their cars. It's knee jerk stuff for the tabloids. As usual...

[Indiana Dymond]

Looking forward to what you come up with enigmanta-wood

I was luky to pick up a de-activated .455 HE2 a couple of years ago. It's de-activated to the older spec,so will chamber inert rounds.It cost a bit,but it is leagal.

The only thing is I'd like something that shoots,so when I can I'm going to get one of the Umerex Smith&Wesson CO2 air pistols.
They aren't covered by the VCR laws as they are air pistols and not replicas in the eyes of the law.

I don't know how much you want to spend ,but they do offer a good legal start on a "copy" of the HE2 as they are metal and are a N frame.Just firing the CO2 gas with no pellet makes a nice loud pop,and you can get some smoke like effect when the CO2 leves the barrel.

My plan is to get S&W wood grips for it to replace the plastic ones.Then its into the machine shop to re-profile the barrel and frame,plus make a new front sight.

I'm lucky to have the machine shop,but I think the project will cost me more than the de-ac did by the time I'm done

[enigmata_wood]

Well I did my research and even emailed the Police for a clarification. I quote;

I am putting together an 'Indiana Jones'
themed theatrical act for events, carnivals and private parties. I am
also looking into setting up 'Murder Mystery Evenings'.
The dramatic effect of these would be greatly enhanced by the use of a
prop gun. I am not interested in getting a loud blank firing gun or
replica, simply an adult size 'western style' cap gun so there is a
decent 'pop' at least, at the dramatic moment. This prop would be used
in controlled settings where members of the audience were told in
advance that a fake gunshot will happen.
I have done some research on the web but it is unclear to me whether I
need a permit, or is it enough that I declare the ownership and
theatrical purpose of said cap gun in writing to the police?

Their reply:

"In relation to your enquiry for what you are asking you will not need any form of certificate. If it is purely a blank firing replica gun no certification is required, however there are certain rules & regulations which apply if it is a realistic imitation firearm. As you only seem to want a 'cap' gun then this will not fall into that category."

Though you may want to at least inform your own local constabulary of what you exactly intend to use a realistic cap gun for.

And here's the cap gun I went for.
It's almost exactly the right size, shape and colour as the SW HE2, [now I've cropped the barrel] - the scrollwork isn't going to make a difference from a distance.

Now i just need to find some LOUD caps.

If you want one it's made by a Spanish company, Gonher, and it's their 'Margerita' model in black. They don't sell them direct from their website, so you'll have to order one through a toy store.

[djd]

Lol! They're wrong according to their own legislation.... That said, your backside is now well and truly covered with that email!

Well done Derek

[indianaandrews]

Guys
Last weekend I was at the Memorabilia show at the NEC in Birmingham. I purchased an excellent all metal, working, but non-firing Browning replica from a licensed dealer. He also had superb Webley Mk IV revolver replicas too that opened at the breach and were all metal. Ok so not a WG replica, but close enough. Unfortunately I left his business card at work, but I will dig it out and post the dealers name tomorrow if anyone is interested, these replicas are fantastic for the money, made in Spain and legal... Somehow!
Best
Mark
Indiana Andrews

[enigmata_wood]

Lol! They're wrong according to their own legislation.... That said, your backside is now well and truly covered with that email!

Well done Derek

Given what I was told I may as well get a blank firer now, as you say, I'm covered.

[djd]

I agree . I wouldn't try and import one though as it may still be seized by border agency. Police letter won't help there ;(

[Indiana Dymond]

Here is a link to the VCR act with regards to imitation firearms

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/200 ... n-firearms

If we go on about it this thread will be locked and cleaned

I am a licenced firearm and shotgun holder in the UK,and I know a bit about such matters.
If you want to ask any questions of me please PM me I would be more than happy to chat.


Getting to enegmata-woods quest for a louder bang.

As a kid I used to put two reals of paper caps together so two caps would be struck at once to give a louder bang.

[djd]

LOL! I was just about to post the link to the VCR Act myself but you beat me to it!

Spent the first 7 years of my investigation career working on illegal arms trafficking.... (Iraqi Supergun anyone?? (Hope Derek hasn't got one of those...)). Also happy to help.

The law is now totally daft when you cant even buy a kids toy that isn't bright orange... Do I feel safer? Do I ****!

Ban on the manufacture, importation and sale of realistic imitation firearms.Realistic imitation firearms are imitation firearms that are so realistic they are indistinguishable, for all practical purposes, from a real firearm.

The ban applies to many imitation guns that are black or metallic, authentic looking and styled on a model or type of real firearm. Most pellet firing guns (in some cases referred to as BB Guns) are viewed as being realistic and as such are subject to the ban. The ban could also apply to certain children's toy guns.

The basic test is to ask the question, “does the imitation gun look like a real firearm?”. If the answer is yes, then the item is likely to be a realistic imitation firearm and its sale, importation and manufacture is outlawed.

Whether an imitation firearm is realistic will depend on its shape, size and colour and should be judged on how it looks at the point of manufacture, importation or sale and not how it might be appear if it were being misused - for example, in the dark and from a distance.

An imitation firearm will still be regarded as realistic even if, on close examination or as a result of attempting to load or fire it, it becomes apparent that it is not a real firearm.

It is an offence for anyone to sell, import or manufacture a realistic imitation firearm. The maximum penalty for breaching the restriction is 6 months imprisonment and/or a £5,000 fine.

What will make an imitation firearm unrealistic?
An imitation firearm will not be regarded as realistic if it is:

transparent or bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright pink, bright purple or bright blue in colour; or
less than 38mm high and 70mm long; or
a copy of a pre-1870 firearm.
How do you ensure that imitation firearms you manufacture, import and sell (including children’s toy guns) are not realistic?
It is advisable that the imitation firearm:

is coloured as detailed above; or
is of such a size as detailed above; or
has an appearance which would identify it as having a design pre-dating 1870 e.g. a traditional Western cowboy gun or a 17th Century pirate blunderbuss; or
does not have the appearance of a firearm e.g. a futuristic space gun or a super soaker water pistol.

[enigmata_wood]

Here is a link to the VCR act with regards to imitation firearms

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/200 ... n-firearms

If we go on about it this thread will be locked and cleaned

I am a licenced firearm and shotgun holder in the UK,and I know a bit about such matters.
If you want to ask any questions of me please PM me I would be more than happy to chat.


Getting to enegmata-woods quest for a louder bang.

As a kid I used to put two reals of paper caps together so two caps would be struck at once to give a louder bang.

That was what I had in mind if I couldn't get any good caps. It appears that even the caps for toys been under EU regulation for some years and make a tiny fizzle barely louder than the click of an empty cap gun. I found quite a few reviews by very angry parents who just wanted their disappointed kids to have some good old make-believe fun in the garden.
Rant over.

[djd]

Yes. Here in northern Ireland the last thing I'm worried about is that someone is going to point a kids toy in my direction...

[Indiana Dymond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZgpTm6tLI4

This looks like it may well work.

[djd]

That's excellent. Thanks for posting that

[enigmata_wood]

It doesn't seem to work well with 'Eurocaps' but I'm going to order some altogether 'punchier' caps from the USA and experiment

[The Numenorean]

Hi my fellow Limey adventurers.

As with a lot of British legislation this can be a bit of a grey area and subject to interpretation by the local police authority and legal body. I know this well as i am a copper. (please no stones! )

My advise is ensure you contact the local police headquarters of any different areas you may visit prior to going and get a written reply. I'd also recommend contacting them again the day before and ensuring that they have a record that your activity is taking place and what you'll be doing (maybe even again on the morning of). if only for your own peace of mind.
Only this year there was an incident where a fairly large film production requested permission to film a gun battle on an estate ( i can't remember where). On the day of the race, however some residents reported sounds of gunfire and an armed unit was dispatched only to find no sign of any "gangwar" taking place except for a few spent cases that had been missed. Apparently the message had not been passed or had not been highlighted in that days briefing. You may remember reading about it in the papers.

A huge over sight and potentially very dangerous.

Not wanting to scare the bejeezus out of you just making everyone aware

[Wade Egan]

I send orange WG kits to the UK with not problems. I include a note to customs explaining what it is and that it's for theatrical use as well as photos of Indy holding one and the IJ logo, etc. and have had no issues so far.

W.E.

[Indiana Dymond]

Wade's correct a orange one will be OK. the trouble will start if you paint it black

[enigmata_wood]

..and yet. I was in a pawnbrokers' shop a few weeks ago. They had a second hand starter pistol for sale it was black [illegal] and .38 [illegal] but, "It's OK we can sell it, 'coz it's second hand, the local police ordinance officer said so when he was in the other day".
There is indeed some confusion about the legislation. I decided not to risk it.