POLL: Preferred Raiders Jacket Cut

[Puppetboy]

Here's something I've been mulling, pondering, cogitating, contemplating, you get the idea. The Raiders jacket, we all know, is slightly ill-fitting on most people. It rides back on the shoulders, it's too short in the back, the front sticks out (and if you pull it down in the front, the back sticks out!), and most of you know you have to tug on the front all the time to keep it in place. Well, I hate clothes that ride back on my shoulders. I wonder if you do too. Here's the question: would you rather have a screen-accurate jacket that doesn't fit well, or a better cut jacket that drapes nice, but still has the Raiders design and details?

Oh, yes, also, would you be interested in a THIN layer of insulation? It wouldn't change the appearance.

[maboot38]

Hey Todd, there seems to be something wrong with the voting. This is the second poll today I've not been able to submit.

So....I'll take this opportunity to say...stop tweaking the jackets and get back to those top secret trousers we've heard tell of!

Just kidding bud, I say go with the screen accurate jacket, always.

[JC1972]

I voted for improved fit; a lot of us are not built like HF was 30 years ago. So of course I want the Raiders style but to fit me, not HF. Otherwise for some, you'll get this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGWbt3DS ... re=related

(Fat guy in a little coat ala Tommy Boy)

[tekors]

I voted Screen Accurate but I must say that depends on the person. THe Raiders jacket has a great design, but of course it diesn need some adjustements to fit in some people. You can have a SA jacket with slight modifications to better fit you...

[Kentucky Blues]

I'm on the fence on this one... On the one hand, I totally agree that the real jacket doesn't have the most practical cut. It falls off the shoulders, the back or front sticks out, etc. The originals were costume pieces, not quality jackets, and were designed to look good in a world where good meant beat to death. Because of this, I would much prefer to wear a jacket that was cut more practically, a real jacket, that had the looks of the Raiders jacket. Something short in the body, with an overall relatively slim fit.

On the other hand, Todd's Costumes is Todd's COSTUMES. Granted, you don't sell stuff made by Ruby, or other cheap Halloweenish products, but the goal at hand is to emulate what it is that we're costuming. In the case of Indiana Jones, it's to make and sell stuff that looks like Indiana Jones' stuff. And while the original jackets weren't cut very practically, they are what the man wore, so screen accurate is the way to go for that goal.

It seems like a really good idea to have a vendor that sells a screen accurate, flaws and all jacket for an affordable price. A replica of the costume piece we're all trying to emulate at a price that's most affordable for what is to be worn as a costume piece. $150 is pretty cheap for a jacket, and pretty expensive for a costume piece, but pretty dead on for a replica of the actual jacket. At the same time, a jacket that is designed to be a jacket first, and look like the Raiders jacket second is a good idea and what I myself would prefer. But there are more options, I think, for the latter. We have Magnoli, US Wings, Wested, etc. for custom or off the rack, more expensive "real" jackets, which are absolutely wonderful, but don't fill the niche for someone who wants the right jacket, only for costume purposes first and foremost. The jacket you offer now fills that niche, and nothing else seems to.

I love my Todd's Standard Jacket, but it definitely feels mostly like a costume piece, which doesn't really disappoint me that much. I would like it more if it did have a better cut to it, and sat on my shoulders like a jacket should, but I don't feel like I was ripped off in the least. I would love if you offered a better cut jacket, but I think the community would be missing out if it lost it's vendor for the most affordable screen accurate jacket.

-KB

[Gorak]

My own two cents- We have planty of jackets out there that have the Raiders style....but only you with the most accurate screen look. I`d say stay with the screen look. Would you look to provide both or just one or the other. All my other jackets, no matter how 'wearable' they are designed, do not have that elusive Raiders magic that you`ve been able to bottle. Keep up the great work!

[vfxguy]

I'm looking to buy my first Raiders jacket, and leaning towards the G&B goatskin. I'm not sure how it is cut, but it is a conversation I will have with them before purchasing. Since I will be buying it as a jacket to wear, and wear often, it is more important to me that it capture the Raiders' style, but also fit well. For me it is not about being perfectly screen accurate. I'm not built like Harrison Ford, and I'm not looking for an Indy costume, so I want something that looks cool, is quality made, and is tailored to fit me.

That said, I understand why others would want a screen-accurate version too...it's nice to have both options.

[Dr. Evil]

If you can make a more comfortable, better-fitting jacket that still has the slim look you see in the bar scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark, I'd say go for it. I personally think your custom jackets are the best looking. Gorak's new jacket is pretty much what I'm looking for and I don't care if my stomach does hang out the front.

[CM]

I love the jacket but my intention was always to have a better one that the one in the film - better leather, better cut. So improve it by all means.

[Texan Scott]

All of these are viable options in my opinion. It just depends on what the customer wants and what he/she would fit into? Younger ones might go for the slim, more SA fit, while the group with a few years on them might want to compensate for the belly factor? From time to time, I have wanted the insulated option. Maybe a good thinsulate lining will take care of that aspect, while not adding too much bulk?

[TheExit148]

Screen accurate all the way. There really isn't a SA affordable jacket available, and if Todd can do it, he'd be the one to do it. I'd be interested in one for sure.

[BaptisteTheFool]

Gotta say if it really has the SA features but fits a bit better... I'd go for that. The jacket I tried on from you was excessively ill-fitting. I might try again for a better fitting piece.

As for insulation... I'm indifferent. Could be a nice feature. But I kinda want a lighter jacket that I could wear more months out of the year for my next jacket.

[Kentucky Blues]

Screen accurate all the way. There really isn't a SA affordable jacket available, and if Todd can do it, he'd be the one to do it. I'd be interested in one for sure.

That's pretty much what he offers now... It looks like he's asking us if we'd rather he stick to that pattern, or go for a new pattern with the same basic features, but a better fit.

-KB

[Holt]

SA all the way baby.

jm2c.

[ron521]

Definitely "improved fit"...I owned a G&B Expedition for a while, and I simply didn't like the odd way it fit or felt (although quite a few told me it LOOKED great).
As Kentucky Blues correctly stated, the problem is that the original jackets (from which the Expedition was said to be copied) were COSTUMES.
They were NOT intended to be "practical real-world" jackets, constructed with the intention of being worn every day for years.
They only had to hold together long enough to finish the scene, and to look a certain (sloppy) way before the camera.

This is why, after trying out the Expedition, I resold it to someone else (who tells me he is happy with it).
Although I admired some of the features of the Expedition (shorter yoke, and gussets under the arms), I vastly prefer the way my US Wings VIP fits and feels.
If the new US Wings Raiders jacket "fits" the way my VIP does (i.e. doesn't fall off shoulders or need to be tugged down in front or back, etc)
then they will have a huge and well-deserved success, and I predict many people will be selling their Expeditions to own the new Wings product.

[Hollowpond]

Hey Todd, there seems to be something wrong with the voting. This is the second poll today I've not been able to submit.

So....I'll take this opportunity to say...stop tweaking the jackets and get back to those top secret trousers we've heard tell of!

Just kidding bud, I say go with the screen accurate jacket, always.

I say go SA too. And like my boy Boot, I can't vote either... Hey Boot, are you running mozilla?

Travis

[Tibor]

Gotta go with "improved fit". In the real world, I don't need it to go over my holster or bag. Just a good jacket that looks the part. I'd go with a trimmer fit and a bit more sleeve length, not falling off the shoulder, but keep the high yoke and everything else (for what it's worth...)

It is sooo accurate now, just not pleasant to wear as a real jacket.

[Indyzane]

Screen-accurate jacket for me.

[Weston]

Keep it screen accurate. That is what we love about your Raiders jacket.

Weston

[djd]

SA for me. If I want to look good / cool or whatever I'll be wearing a different jacket I want an Indy jacket that looks like indy's. There's no other reason I'd want one

[scot2525]

I voted to keep it screen accurate, but still think a few tweaks can be made to make it fit better. Maybe going to a number sizing instead of letter sizing.

[Long John Tinfoil]

Make it work in the real world is my vote.

This time of year, I wear my Expedition all day, every day. Same with my Aldens and fedora (PB). I like the outfit, it's a variation of what I wore before Raiders even hit the screen. I have one of your Std. jackets in lamb for warmer weather, and it, too, gets daily use in season. Maybe I have an odd body type, but I don't find that I need to adjust either or that they don't fit me properly.

As it gets cooler here in the Great White North, a bit of insulation sounds good. I work outside most of the time. Today I wore a lightweight fleece(?) base layer under a long-sleeved cotton shirt and the Expo. Temp. when I left the house? 0 Celsius with a moderate breeze.

LJ

[jlhampton]

i don't even have a todd's jacket yet, but i am very close to ordering. i think i'm waiting for the next batch to come in first as it was said that some of the minor flaws would be ironed out. i also cast my vote for screen accurate, too. i've had a wested lamb since '05 and even though i like it, the fit and weight just isn't there. i'm not built exactly like ford either, but i think i'm proportioned enough to pull off the todd's xxl fit. i'm willing to risk it. i believe, from what i've seen here, the s.a. specs are the way to go.

jlhampton

[Arca Perdida]

Well, if you were the only vendor out there and could make only one jacket, I'd say improved fit. However, there are others out there already that provide that, so I'd say stick with the SA version for those who must have that, as it seems to be a hard find elsewhere.
Me? I'd rather wear a jacket that fits ME and still has the right "vibe."

[Kentucky Blues]

i don't even have a todd's jacket yet, but i am very close to ordering. i think i'm waiting for the next batch to come in first as it was said that some of the minor flaws would be ironed out. i also cast my vote for screen accurate, too. i've had a wested lamb since '05 and even though i like it, the fit and weight just isn't there. i'm not built exactly like ford either, but i think i'm proportioned enough to pull off the todd's xxl fit. i'm willing to risk it. i believe, from what i've seen here, the s.a. specs are the way to go.

jlhampton

Could you elaborate on the fit and weight issue? I have a wested lamb too, and one of the things I love about my Todd's Standard is that it's so much like my old wested. At the same time, the main issue I have with them both is the fit, but I got used to the wested fit as it conformed to me. What I'm getting at though, is that Todd's Standard jacket could very well turn out to be very similar to your Wested. I get the feeling that the fit issues people are worried about aren't the same issues Todd is concerned with, and I'd hate for this confusion to negatively affect whatever decision Todd goes with.

-KB

[Noah]

I say keep it screen accurate. Although I very much like a good fitting jacket, I still want it to be SA.

[soulman]

I say SA all the way! Thus far I've owned Wested, G&B, Wings and your standard. The standard is by far the only jacket that just has that raiders "vibe". The others are great to be sure but seem to lack the look that I'm after. I personally would not change the pattern. JMHO

[Photoss]

I voted SA. There's many choices in the Indy jacket world, but few are the SA type.

[Ravenswood]

I definitely go for SA, now that that proverbial genie has been let out of the bottle... I even like how it hangs off the shoulders from time to time.
However in colder days, I could probably do without the occasional draft coming up the side vents

[Bemo]

Wow, what a tough question! I think it really depends on what customer base you're trying to attract. If you want to expand beyond the Indy fan-atics, then I would surmise the improved fit will be desired. Myself, I'd vote to keep it SA, quirks and all; too refined of a jacket does end up losing something in the translation I think.

[Weston]

I know I already weighed in here, but bemo said it very well. The only other way to get the options you offer is to go with a custom maker, but your Standard offering (I have the 2008 model) gives folks what they would otherwise have to detail themselves and pay big bucks for. From a guy who has more jackets than sanity should allow, please don't change it!

Weston

[Ravenswood]

Hmmm. I'd actually like to revise my opinion and go for Screen Accurate with lining. I think we'd have the best of both worlds if the lining doesn't effect the Raiders "drape".

[Puppetboy]

Thanks for the great feedback! I think there are 45 or so votes so far, so I'm still looking forward to what others have to say.

Here's my thinking - Many of you guys wear these jackets every day. I would wear mine every day IF IT FIT. But it doesn't. Oh, it looks like the movie, but when I'm going shopping, I don't want to look like I've been beat up by a giant German airplane mechanic. I want to look good.

I totally understand the value of screen accuracy. But, according to my wallet, $149 is a lot to pay for a jacket that doesn't make me look good. I'm just wondering...

[Texan Scott]

I would say no significant alterations in specs., people still want the jacket with the details they see on screen, but cut to fit. Obviously there is custom for a perfect fit. Also, one niche in the market that could be filled, as few makers provide it, is a faithful reproduction of the LC jacket in a good, medium weight naked cow/horse/goat?

[binkmeisterRick]

Something else to consider is that every Indy jacket maker has done essentially the same thing over time. A brief timeline would flow something like this: A jacket maker puts out an Indy jacket which may or may not be SA. Over time, fans and customers provide input, desiring a better fitting jacket or tweaks to the design. The jacket maker tweaks the pattern or makes "improvements" to the jacket based on customer feedback. Years later, the customers start wondering why the jacket isn't SA and start complaining about the current look of the jacket compared to when it first came onto the market, not realizing that they were the ones who wanted the tweaks in the first place. The jacket maker either stands his ground, reverts to the original pattern, or tweaks yet again.

Sound familiar?

MY personal preference is to have a jacket that looks good on ME and is made well. To be honest, I hardly wear my SA "warts and all" Nowak carbon copy Raiders. Why? Because as cool a jacket as it is, it does not fit me like a proper jacket should fit me. It looks sloppy and like a costume jacket on me, albeit a very nice costume jacket. I wear my custom Wested goatskin, which may not be completely SA, but it fits my shoulders and body like it should and does look good on me. I'll always favor a jacket that looks right on me.

Now, the question you need answered, Todd, comes down to this: WHO is your target audience? WHO are you going to sell the most jackets to? If your market consists of stitch counters and SA nuts, then you'll likely want to stick with keeping as close to that as possible. If your market is mostly made up of folks who want a good looking, practical jacket that is largely SA, then making "everyday refinements" makes sense. I like the idea of having a jacket for both crowds, but that's a matter of business expense on your end. But I know that I will be wearing a real jacket on a daily basis versus a "costume" jacket on rare occasion.

That's my two cents worth.

[Michaelson]

...that and the fact that NO one makes an insulated version should be definitely considered.

Regards! michaelson

[Kubrik]

I like the real world fit better cause I go out with it and it does look weird with the front popping out even while zipped up. Feels like something's wrong. It can be improved while keeping the look for sure.

When they did the originals they rushed it cause there was a crazy deadline. There's no deadline anymore, why not make it better fitting, nothing wrong with that. Even if George Lucas gave me the actual film jacket I probably couldn't wear it out with friends without getting commented on how wrong it fits me.

I wanna look good.

[tomek9210]

It all depends on customer's preference. For some people SA is the aim, for others just good fit. But if I have to choose in the poll, I'd choose SA (insulation could be good thing, you can make option with insulation or without, like currently) .
To get probably most SA jacket for 150 bucks is more than fine purchase. For others custom jackets are way to go. That's it.
Your jackets Todd are great, I wish I was more standard sized guy and could buy such awesome SA piece of gear.
BTW, when custom ones will be available?

[Kentucky Blues]

Well, I officially cast my vote, I chose improved fit. When it got right down to it, I thought about what screen accurate really means, and the fact that the main reason we knows yours is the most screen accurate is because we know you measured an actual screen used jacket. Granted, it absolutely looks the part as well, but the look changes in the movie. Screen accuracy is dependent on how the jacket was being worn from scene to scene. I'm not a screen accurate junky, but if I was, I have a feeling that I would like a bit more than knowledge that my jacket was screen accurate. I'd want to know, and be able to see WHY. And to be honest, I can't tell by looking at it what causes my jacket to slide off the shoulders, and can't tell by looking at the movie either. I get the feeling, though, that the jackets used in the movie were probably adjusted while wearing to get certain looks/levels of comfort. So ultimately, I'd like a jacket that has all the details (pocket flaps, side strap placement, etc, etc) that make it the Raiders jacket, but with the fit of a Jacket jacket.

Also, you might want to create two separate polls for preferred cut and insulation/no insulation. Or just combine the insulation votes into the appropriate cut votes, because I think the cut is going to be the bigger issue here. And I'd definitely consider making insulation an option on the custom jackets Actually, the cut question would make nice option for the custom as well....

-KB

[Texan Scott]

SA details are just cosmetic: pocket size and placement, shape and size of the collar, middle of the storm flap, size of the yoke, storm flap, etc. Classic Raiders specs. doesn't have to be compromised in lieu of fit. I've found OTR sizes are for the most part: 34-36 S, 38-40 M, 42-44 L, 46-48 XL, etc.

[Kentucky Blues]

SA details are just cosmetic: pocket size and placement, shape and size of the collar, middle of the storm flap, size of the yoke, storm flap, etc. Classic Raiders specs. doesn't have to be compromised in lieu of fit. I've found OTR sizes are for the most part: 34-36 S, 38-40 M, 42-44 L, 46-48 XL, etc.

It sounds like you may be missing the issue, Tex (and if I'm wrong, please forgive me).

It's not the sizing that's the problem, but the cut. Yeah, the sizing poses problems for some people with different shapes, but I don't think that's what Todd himself is complaining about. The cut of the raiders jacket is somewhat flawed, it hangs off of, and falls off of the shoulders almost automatically on most people. I've heard this complaint about Raiders jackets for about as long as I've been around, mostly about Wested jackets. It almost feels like the back of the jacket is not designed to reach forward over the shoulders, so the front is pulled up over the shoulder towards the back. My US wings jackets don't have this issue.

-KB

[Texan Scott]

Nope, I'm just saying that you can still get the details you want and the fit. It is possible to have both. Yeah, there have been tweaks to the fit. Other jacket makers have tweaked the pattern over the years to fit the customer better, but as long as the details are right, a person needs to have a good fit. Lets face it, few of us are 6' 1" and 185 lbs, or for those of us who are, will no necessarily be that way the rest of our lives. I'd rather have a jacket made to fit me, or at least within the ballpark, not made to fit someone else? The Raiders pattern is a odd pattern, but remember, he was custom sized on the spot. Some of these idiosycrasies are because we are not 6'1" and 185 with a slender chest and relatively long arms.

[JC1972]

Nope, I'm just saying that you can still get the details you want and the fit. It is possible to have both. Yeah, there have been tweaks to the fit. Other jacket makers have tweaked the pattern over the years to fit the customer better, but as long as the details are right, a person needs to have a good fit. Lets face it, few of us are 6' 1" and 185 lbs, or for those of us who are, will no necessarily be that way the rest of our lives. I'd rather have a jacket made to fit me, or at least within the ballpark, not made to fit someone else? The Raiders pattern is a odd pattern, but remember, he was custom sized on the spot. Some of these idiosycrasies are because we are not 6'1" and 185 with a slender chest and relatively long arms.

Like I said in the 2nd response above, not many of us are built like HF was back 30 years ago. Hence my fat guy in a little coat from Tommy Boy Youtube link and voting for the improved fit. For anyone built anything other than that look, the jacket will look silly. Like me at 6'3" (almost 6'4") wearing a short jacket. Doesn't look right.

[Texan Scott]

I consider the details SA, the fit...? Get the best fit, man! Gotta work for you!

[conceited_ape]

SA. Keep it as is.

[Satipo]

I guess I'm partly biased because I do have an 80s Ford-style physique. But, IMHO, the whole legendary status of the Todd's Standard is built on its simple USP: it's extremely SA + good value for money. Change that formula and you risk diluting its established appeal. So, my vote is to keep it pure - at least until I get one!

[Puppetboy]

the fact that the main reason we knows yours is the most screen accurate is because we know you measured an actual screen used jacket.

As much as I'd like to make that claim, I have not measured a screen used jacket personally. I have the measurements provided graciously by _, and I have a TN "warts and all" jacket. My conscience won't allow me to let this small misunderstanding to become "fact", although it would be to my advantage to let people believe it is true.

[Tennessee Smith]

...that and the fact that NO one makes an insulated version should be definitely considered.

Regards! michaelson

All things considered an zip-out liner version would be interesting

[Texan Scott]

If we could get a thin but quality liner, like the improved thinsulate, I bet it could work?

[Ravenswood]

...that and the fact that NO one makes an insulated version should be definitely considered.

Regards! michaelson

All things considered an zip-out liner version would be interesting

Zip out lining! I think that would be awesome...I'm one of those "wears my Wested Lamb-skin jacket into the cold-cold days of winter, tooth and nail" kind of guys. It's kind of farcical, I know...
I was standing at a bus stop shivering my rear end off last February, wearing my OTR ROLA Special. A gentleman walked past me and muttered something about my jacket....couldn't hear him over my teeth chattering, but no doubt, he probably commented on how "cool" my jacket was