Magnoli vs Todds vs G&B vs Wested

riothamus · Post by **riothamus** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:26 am

Ok,

So after everything that's happened with USW recently and me really liking the NZ lamb but not liking the devil zebra stripes, I'm thinking its time to go custom for my one and only brown Indy jacket. I have a Wested black Indy 44 Long from another member that fits well enough for the times I'll wear it. But last season I wore my USW VIP Adventurer pretty much everyday so I'll want something that fits well and wears well. I don't plan to need a really "tough" jacket so heavier cow and horse are out. I think I'm between a lightweight lamb so that I can wear it more often, or a goat for the best compromise between durable and light.

With Nowak Originals closing its doors, and their price normally being more than I could pull together at any one time, it's down to the following businesses. Give me your opinions for those that have custom jackets from these guys. I'm interested in the quality, the price, and the ease of actually getting what you want without hassles of sending a completed jacket back because of errors.

My list of customizations is pretty short: sleeve length, back length, shoulder width, waist width, hidden snaps, extra inside pocket. The rest of the details I'm not too concerned about. I just want an Indy-style jacket that FITS well and does what it's suppose to.

Magnoli: ~$500, can customize all above features I think. Ease of communication sounds good, how do they last?

Todds: ~$500, can customize all above features I think. Ease of communication sounds good, how do they last?

G&B: +$500 for made to measure? I think they can do these customizations as well. I haven't had luck getting in touch through their email form. I know they are tough and will last a long time in goat, what about lamb?

Wested: ~$350 with my changes. Not sure about hidden snaps. Overall durability seems good, but I've read some horror stories about actually getting what you want. Plus the hassle of dealing across the pond is a concern. And it might not be fair, but some of the questions about how true their claims are for the patterns and movie participation are a slight turnoff, but not a deal breaker as I just want a good jacket.

So there you have it gents. If something I've said is incorrect, please correct me. Otherwise, please chime in with your experiences on the various makers and their jackets.

High regards!
Riothamus

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:41 am

I'd list my preferences as the following:

G&B, closely followed by Magnoli.

It's a toss of the coin here for me, as I'm not sure just how much customization G&B does now. You'll have to talk to them, and I'd recommend a phone call rather than email. I can't add much more than has already been said regarding durability, fit and finish. They're just great bullet proof jackets, and will last forever.....so far.

The only reason I put Indy Magnoli second is due to his location from me. I've only had a couple issues with things he's made me (one time my fault, once his, so it evened out

), but due to him being in New Zealand and me in Tennessee, rural Tennessee at that, the effort I had to go through to return the items to get the problems cleared up just wasn't worth what I had to go through to make it work. Of course we know all Indy's stuff is custom and exactly to the spec of the customer, so there's no question on his quality. When it's right, it's perfect....and 9 times out of 10, it's perfect from all reports.

In 3rd and 4th place I give the same rating for Todd's and Wested....and once again with the exact same reasons given above about G&B and Magnoli. Todd hasn't comitted to making customized jackets again (to my knowledge), though it's been recently discussed. When he did make them, they were top drawer.
Wested is the best bargain, but located in England. With the snafu's regarding receiving incorrect spec'd jackets and the extra effort having to return them for replacement or correction, it's your call how much effort YOU want to put into a return. When they're right, they are also top drawer.

That's my personal opinion on the makers in question at the moment.

Regards! Michaelson

djd · Post by **djd** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:51 am

I'd rate Magnoli very highly. Certainly well made stuff with a sense of real care about getting things right in terms of the details we want. The G&B jacket looks nice but for me it looks a bit too bullet proof- a nice looking leather jacket but not an Indy jacket. To me a true indy jacket should look worn and a bit a battered. The sense with most of the G&B's I've seen here is that they look kind of smart-casual and not very Indy like regardless of the good patern. That's probably just me though

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:59 am

I'll add to this by touching on one of the other vendors. One of the appeals of a Wested is they offer many skins to choose from, but be very certain of the measurements and features you want and adamant about it if you choose to go that direction.

djd's Magnoli made a very nice Indy jacket as well.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:07 am

djd wrote:I'd rate Magnoli very highly. Certainly well made stuff with a sense of real care about getting things right in terms of the details we want. The G&B jacket looks nice but for me it looks a bit too bullet proof- a nice looking leather jacket but not an Indy jacket. To me a true indy jacket should look worn and a bit a battered. The sense with most of the G&B's I've seen here is that they look kind of smart-casual and not very Indy like regardless of the good patern. That's probably just me though

Have you seen the photos of one of my G&B jackets in the other thread, djd?

If that's not 'worn and a bit battered', I don't understand your definition of the condition.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:10 am

It's amazing what acetone, sandpaper and love can do for a G&B

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:11 am

True, but a lot of natural wear too.

Regards !Michaelson

djd · Post by **djd** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:20 am

Michaelson wrote:
djd wrote:I'd rate Magnoli very highly. Certainly well made stuff with a sense of real care about getting things right in terms of the details we want. The G&B jacket looks nice but for me it looks a bit too bullet proof- a nice looking leather jacket but not an Indy jacket. To me a true indy jacket should look worn and a bit a battered. The sense with most of the G&B's I've seen here is that they look kind of smart-casual and not very Indy like regardless of the good patern. That's probably just me though
Have you seen the photos of one of my G&B jackets in the other thread, djd?

If that's not 'worn and a bit battered', I don't understand your definition of the condition.

Regards! Michaelson

That's why I said 'most'

Your's looks great

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:40 am

singsingjohnny · Post by **singsingjohnny** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:14 pm

Your G&B looks great, nicely worn in!

Kentucky Blues · Post by **Kentucky Blues** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:16 pm

Food for thought, and I'm not making any assumptions here, but...

How much of that distressing on your jacket is natural, Michaelson? And of that natural distressing, how much WOULD be there if it hadn't been previously distressed? If I'm not mistaken, that's goatskin... and this question addresses the distressing aspect as goatskin in general as much as it does your jacket specifically....

-KB (and an intrigued and interested KB at that...)

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:24 pm

If Michaelson was wearing it at the time? Heck yes!

I saw this jacket on the QM right after MK had the work done, and I'd say that about 60% of the aging was done then, specifically the toning down of the shine with acetone, and the light sanding along some of the seams. I'd say the MOST noticable difference would be the removal of the shine.

Otherwise, the remaining 40% has been from use and natural wear and tear of being around the barn more than a few times in the past 10 years. I'm the 3rd owner, by the way, and from what I was told, the 2nd owner never really wore it much, if at all, so all the use has been by MK and myself.

ALL the scratches seen on the sleeves and elsewhere were acquired since I got the jacket. I don't baby that jacket what so ever.

Regards! Michaelson

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:03 pm

_ wrote:No real need for me to pipe in - y'all are saying what I'd say. Those G&B's are bomb-proof and their specs come out consistently dead-to-nuts. To me? Magnoli has the crown for custom-made and the 9-out-of-10 comment is correct.

I'd have to second this.

Photoss · Post by **Photoss** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:17 pm

One also begs the question: Which is your favourite movie jacket? My personal vendor choices:
Raiders: G&B (Todd's custom is good too)
ToD: Wested
LC: Magnoli
KotCS: US Wings
This is all my humble opinion, but is based on pictures I've seen of different member's jackets.

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:29 pm

My Favs:

Raiders: TN (no contest)
ToD: TN
LC: TN (see Tundrarider's)
KotCS: TN (who else but the man who made it?)

I'm sorry but once you saw what Tony was capable of, everything else just pales in comparison.

Now, if we leave TN out of the equation, then for me, it becomes:

Raiders: Todd's (previous ones were the best in SA)
ToD: Wested
LC: Wested, Magnoli
KotCS: Wested, USW

Photoss · Post by **Photoss** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:31 pm

I agree with PBSindy, however I didn't mention him as those doors are pretty much closed now.
If you happen to find one for sale from another member, definitely spring for that.
i know that there are around 2 KotCS TN jackets in the Bazaar currently.

djd · Post by **djd** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:37 pm

Photoss wrote:I agree with PBSindy, however I didn't mention him as those doors are pretty much closed now.
If you happen to find one for sale from another member, definitely spring for that.
i know that there are around 2 KotCS TN jackets in the Bazaar currently.

As of last week Rilley was still taking orders

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:39 pm

I would have to agree if you have the ability to do so Tony Nowak Originals is the best all around. Although since that door is now closing (last call everyone!) from what I have seen Magnoli looks like he can take the top spot!

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:02 pm

Magnoli makes top shelf produts!I cant say enough about his work. I see more Magnoli jackets in my future. I allready have 3 jackets, 3 of his shirts, 1 pair of his LC pants and his Bag.

Photoss · Post by **Photoss** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:07 pm

_ wrote: No disrespect, but don't cut Magnoli short.

Never sir, I have many of his products and I love all of them. I was just calling them like I see 'em.
His Raiders jacket is superb, as is his LC jacket, but I just don't recall many pictures of his ToD or KotCS jackets.
you have a ToD I think...?

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:15 pm

I have his TofD in washed dark lambskin. it has a few misstakes on it. But I still love it. perfect pockets, perfect cut, perfect backanel, yoke, collar. the mistakes lies in the vent construction which is a really weird construction anyways and the second flaw is the collarstand made like an LC collarstand. other then that... perfect!

its 2.5 years old and very broken in and aged.

Photoss · Post by **Photoss** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:29 pm

Very good then.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:45 pm

jnicktem wrote:I would have to agree if you have the ability to do so Tony Nowak Originals is the best all around. Although since that door is now closing (last call everyone!) from what I have seen Magnoli looks like he can take the top spot!

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And everyone is entitled to state their opinion. However.....

The older I get, the more inclined I am to never state what is the "best". What is the best is too interpretive. I have a TN Raiders. It's a great, great Raiders jacket. I like it a lot, I wear it all the time. Is it the best? Um...I don't know. It's not better quality-wise than any of my G&B offerings. From what I've heard Magnoli quality is super high too. I also hear that he is very good with custom.

I sent my TN Raiders to a board member who is very picky about Raiders details. He was underwhelmed with my TN Raiders. I thought that he would like it as much as I did, but he didn't. I don't know if it was the high price or the shrunken lamb or what, but he was underwhelmed. Although he acknowledged the high quality, it didn't remind him any more of a Raiders jacket than a Todd's standard. Who cares though? I love the jacket. But, it's lambskin. It will never hold up like one of my G&B goatskin jobs. The point is that everybody wants something different. You have to look at the questions being asked at the top of the thread. Your answer might still be the same, but surely there are other options. There really is no "best".

riothamus · Post by **riothamus** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:08 pm

Thanks everyone for chiming in so far. Lots of good points. I have indeed emailed Riley to check on the possibility of ordering a jacket and what his current prices and turnaround time are. I'm thinking if I'm going to spend close to $500 for a well made jacket, I might as well get a CUSTOM well made jacket.

I'm definitely thinking Wested is out and a new G&B is out. I'm thinking a Magnoli or a custom Todd's right now. The specific film I don't really care about. I'd say I'm in the close enough camp. I just want an Indy jacket that fits. However, I do like usefulness of the snaps from LC and CS. The rest of the details I don't much notice.

Keep those thoughts and experiences coming while I continue to sort things out!

Excelsior!
Riothamus

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:11 pm

What I meant was that it was the best in my opinion. I have owned MANY Indy jackets from just about EVERY Indy jacket maker this community knows. A lot of them have impressed me. I was blown away by the quality of my USW jacket when I got it. But that was all I was really impressed with on that jacket. My Todds jacket I think is GREAT when it comes to the details... but when I put it on it feels like I'm not even wearing a jacket... which to me defeats the purpose. My TN Raiders jacket is the only jacket that I have ever had that has scratched every itch I've had when it comes to my idea of the perfect jacket. The details are there... the QUALITY is most definitely there... and the fit is the best I have ever had! No other jacket, even custom ones, have nailed the fit for me like Riley did.

Again- I know what it means when someone says that something is the best. I was only stating my opinion and it should be taken as such.

riothamus · Post by **riothamus** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:41 pm

I know Riley is going to be a lot more than $500, but I figure I should see if it can work before that option is gone for good.

Riothamus

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:42 pm

I believe all of Riley's Indy jackets are $950 and up depending on leather. But I would check with Riley to be sure.

djd · Post by **djd** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:13 am

There's been some inflation..., rilley told me 1250 last week. That's over two magnolis, four USW , three westeds.... You get the picture

djd · Post by **djd** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:21 am

I think i'm going to go for one even though the price is so steep. They do look like great jackets and I only have the Magnoli now. I would really like a Raiders in a shrunken/striated lamb. Th Wings option looked good initially but I guess I'd never be 100% happy with the specs. This is going to be my last jacket. Honest.

djd · Post by **djd** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:01 am

Lol! Of course its irrational! This whole hobby is irrational..... I've long since given up on sanity when it comes to spending money

djd · Post by **djd** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:25 am

One of the advantages that Rilley has is access to a good stock of unusual hides. The cost of buying these would be prohibitive for most jacket makers - unless they could be sure of selling a ton of jackets. I know someone who was looking at buying some striated lamb hide and I think the minimum order was something like $20,000. The choice of hide coupled with the workmanship just about allow me to justify the cost - if I don't think too hard!

djd · Post by **djd** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:41 am

I didnt take it that you were being a downer Todd

I wasn't suggesting that the price was justified, merely trying to explain why I'm prepared to go this route. If magnoli, Todd or even wested offered the hide choices I'm interested in I'd go to them. Those funky hides cost too much for the lower cost, low volume guys to deal in I'd have thought?

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:22 am

wow, $1250 for a SL Riley makes my $950 SL TN seem like a bargain in comparison (and it was made by The Man himself

)

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:47 am

You might find this announcement of interest, considering how this discussion has proceeded to date:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=48656

Regards! Michaelson

Bemo · Post by **Bemo** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:35 pm

That's exciting news indeed! Bison. May have to do that.

But it always makes me hungry talking about hides. And I really do like a good bison burger

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:26 pm

_ wrote:
Photoss wrote: you have a ToD I think...?
Nope - I have a dinner jacket and an XO leather. Plus a butt-load of prop replicas over the years. Geez... I've known him so long - I know his real first name.

_, could we see a 'back' shot of that XO on you ......just want to be sure that large light colored lower back addition doesn't make your butt look too big, thanks, Doc......

Band Director Jones · Post by **Band Director Jones** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:20 pm

I have a stupid question (one of just many that I'm full of). When people mention Todd's jacket, are they referring to the custom or the one listed on his site (the OTR so to speak)? If it is the custom, can anyone speak to the durability/quality of the OTR?

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:47 pm

I've always taken it as either/or myself.

Sort of like talking about a Wested...then qualifying custom or OTR.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:56 pm

Yeah, both my G&B's are goatskin.

Regards! Michaelson

Photoss · Post by **Photoss** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:19 pm

Wow! After Michael mentioned that he was going to visit G&B pretty soon, I decided to look up their location, and found out they're actually 17 minutes away from my house.

I might just go have a look-see sometime soon...

riothamus · Post by **riothamus** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:48 am

Ok, I've made the decision to get a Magnoli's! I think I'm going to go with LC as I prefer the snaps and I'm not really a "fitted" body type of guy. I am having some changes made assuming that Magnoli approves them.

thin goatskin if possible to make it more of a three season jacket. I would preferably layer more in the colder months.
second inside breast pocket (I'm left handed).
slider buckles with x-box stitching as in Version A.
underarm gussets, preferably two-piece, but one-piece is acceptable as well.

The one question I'm still stuck on is lining. I want to be able to wear it as often as possible in the Spring/Fall. I currently live in Raleigh, NC and may be moving to Charlottesville, VA. Temps in the winter can get to 0, but typically are 30s. Summer in the 90s with high humidity. I've had two kinds of lining: cotton body/satin sleeves, or all cotton. What I notice is that on warmer days (i.e. when I sweat) the satin will stick to my bare arms while the cotton doesn't. However, the cotton sticks to long sleeves/sweaters more in the winter requiring me to hold down the sleeve ends while putting on the jacket. I think I'm more concerned with warm weather to get the most use out of the jacket.

So, satin or cotton lining or what combination for warmer weather? I've used the search function and read about the durability, but little on what's best for warm vs cool weather.

Excelsior!
Riothamus

Bemo · Post by **Bemo** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:59 am

Personally, I'd go with satin sleeves. I get really tired of having to pull my shirt sleeves down.

singsingjohnny · Post by **singsingjohnny** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:33 am

I'm not sure what Tony Nowak used, but his lining is the best I've had, with U.S. Wings a close second.

Congrats on deciding on the Magnoli LC, I actually just placed my order for one at 12:44 AM, this morning! LC in goat, with some distressing (I'm usually of the natural-distress-as-you-go, but Magnoli does a nice LC distress!)

Looking forward to it, have never owned goatskin...

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:25 am

Agreed 100%!

Regards! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:42 am

I was very impressed with the first photo of Mag's LC jacket on his website. It is as spot on as I have ever seen. Does anyone have any info. on his leather choices, cow, goat, lamb?

riothamus · Post by **riothamus** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:54 am

So other than the fact that satin sleeves will allow your arms/shirt sleeves to slide more easily, no preference between satin and cotton for warmer days? Since I'm going with Magnoli, what G&B and TN use isn't too useful at this point in the decision process, though quite on topic for the thread.

Anybody with thoughts based on milder to warmer days vs. cold winter days?

Thanks,
Riothamus

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:03 am

You mentioned that you would like a thinner hide to make it more of a three season jacket. The reason for satin sleeves, is for practical, functional purposes. It just allows the arms to slide in and out of the jacket easier, without tearing the lining. But if you are looking for a lighter, three season jacket, it would not make alot of difference in which lining you choose, so long as you are happy with it. Are you favoring any type of material over another?

Maybe he has a good, rayon type of lining?

riothamus · Post by **riothamus** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:13 am

I mentioned these questions in an email to him, though I didn't specifically ask him if he had anything other than cotton, satin, or wool. I did specify trying to maximize the wear. I'm going for goat, but requesting a thinner goat if possible for a couple of reasons. 1) the prices on lamb and cow have gone up significantly, and 2) the goat by all accounts is the best compromise between weight/thickness and durability.

For lining, I really don't have a preference, other than as I mentioned, satin sleeves tend to stick to my arms when a day gets a little warmer and I'm wearing jacket. Not to say that the cotton didn't get warm on those same days, but the stickiness factor wasn't there.

However, seeing pics of all satin liners does look very nice. I never had an all satin lining, however from what I hear they tend to wear a little more easily than cotton.

I'm pretty used to holding the edges of my shirt sleeves down when putting on jackets. It seems like all my previous jackets/coats pre-Indy required it until I got satin sleeves.

The Indy jacket I've been wearing primarily for the last couple of years is my USW Vintage Cow with all cotton body, so my memory of the satin sleeves is in the distant past and all I can remember is the stickiness on some days.

Thanks!
Riothamus

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:24 am

If it is not too late, I might suggest leather samples, unless you are absolute on the choice. I've been set on getting a jacket with a certain hide before, but after the samples arrived, I quickly opted for another skin. jmo, though.

riothamus · Post by **riothamus** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:55 am

_, that's exactly the kind info I was hoping for. Thank you! Magnoli told me he typically doesn't wear short sleeves with jackets so my next place was here. I'm typically the same. I wear short shirts because I'm typically too warm indoors when everyone has the heat up for fall/winter.

Texan Scott, I'm not particularly set on any one hide. I've read the forums a lot on the pros and cons of the different hides available. I actually don't really remember reading many cons on goatskin. I ended up wearing my USW Vintage from October through March if not a little into April last year. It was perfect in the cool mornings with short sleeves and in the evenings. The only times it was a bit warm was when I left work at ~5:30. Since I haven't read anything that says goat is going to be a lot warmer than cow, I think it will be ok on that front. Obviously lamb would be even better, but it's more expensive and long term might be less durable, and I'd like to think this will be my one and only brown Indy jacket for a long time to come. I'm not too concerned with SA grain, or drape or anything like that. I do see your point though.

Food for thought...

Thanks!
Riothamus