Neil Cooper Raiders jacket

sharkboy · Post by **sharkboy** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:01 am

i've read the backstory, just curious if anybody else had a preference for the calf or lamb.

theman · Post by **theman** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:17 am

and the can is opened...

It is an easy(but loaded) answer to your question sharkboy, "YES" to both types of leather if you look at all the jackets used in filming and believe everything that is posted as valid information out here. You have to remember there was not just one jacket used in making the movie, so YOU will have to make that personal judgement call on which leather YOU believe gives the best look to YOUR mind's eye.

The best results I have seen IMHO have been in the Shrunken Lamb hides... but this is only my personal preference on how I perceive the Raiders jacket.

There is a reason Cooper/Wings will offer both types of leathers for the Raiders, because both could be correct depending on how the individual would like his jacket to appear.

Sgt. · Post by **Sgt.** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:20 am

theman wrote:and the can is opened...

It is an easy(but loaded) answer to your question sharkboy, "YES" to both types of leather if you look at all the jackets used in filming and believe everything that is posted as valid information out here. You have to remember there was not just one jacket used in making the movie, so YOU will have to make that personal judgement call on which leather YOU believe gives the best look to YOUR mind's eye.

The best results I have seen IMHO have been in the Shrunken Lamb hides... but this is only my personal preference on how I perceive the Raiders jacket.

There is a reason Cooper/Wings will offer both types of leathers for the Raiders, because both could be correct depending on how the individual would like his jacket to appear.

I think you just said it all...Well said.. One thing for sure there will be a lot of Happy Fans World Wide in the next 90 days. BTW Release date for COW is two weeks before Halloween.
Sarge

sharkboy · Post by **sharkboy** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:05 am

thanks for the info. didn't mean to open up any huge topics. I'll stick with the lamb.

SB

sharkboy · Post by **sharkboy** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:25 am

Oh and Sarge, October can't get here soon enough!! Thanks for such an amazing offer!

SB

Sgt. · Post by **Sgt.** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:27 am

sharkboy wrote:thanks for the info. didn't mean to open up any huge topics. I'll stick with the lamb.

SB

I like them all.....I would never go in the woods with a Lamb ! Not a smart thing to do !
Lamb is great for a night out on the town.. Calf and or Cow is the Jacket for every day!! Plus the Naked Hero leather is the right weight for out and about.... Love it while in a Car!! No matter what leather as long as it is a Indy Jacket I am happy.
Sarge

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:37 am

Agreed, but it's been the calfskin that's been the elusive hide, let alone the real Cooper patterns, that many of us have sought after all these years.

Regard! Michaelson

whipcracker · Post by **whipcracker** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:29 am

sharkboy wrote:i've read the backstory, just curious if anybody else had a preference for the calf or lamb.

I really like lamb myself, especially roasted in a green spicy paste like sauce my wife makes. Calf is good to, but breaded and pan seared with balsamic pan sauce and whipped cauliflower.

In all seriousness, calf is what I'm going for. Strong but soft, heavy but light.

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:03 am

sharkboy wrote:i've read the backstory, just curious if anybody else had a preference for the calf or lamb.

Understood. And, just to clarify on my end, I don't think there's a big question on hides as used in the movie as a whole, just for one jacket in particular.

Those question aside, I think Sarge is dead on in what hide is the best for what situation. Lamb is definitely more of a "going into town" jacket, while calfhide would be better for day to day use. It's just a tougher hide.

sharkboy · Post by **sharkboy** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:40 am

OH Man, decisions, decisions,

but it's awesome to have so many new options. thanks for the feedback guys!

SB

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:17 pm

Just to double-check...Only the Raiders' style will have the option of either lamb or calfskin. However, the Temple o' Doom and Last Crusade jackets will be made only of lamb. Is that correct?

I'd like to wait and order the LC jacket...but out of calfskin. However, if the LC jacket will not have that option (lamb/Calfskin), perhaps I'll just go ahead and ask to be placed on the Raiders' jacket for this upcoming fall just so that I can get one made out of calfskin.

Can Sarge, or anyone, clarify this for me just so that I know which to go for?
Thank you!
Aaron

Mitch LaRue · Post by **Mitch LaRue** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:20 pm

Sgt. wrote:One thing for sure there will be a lot of Happy Fans World Wide in the next 90 days. BTW Release date for COW is two weeks before Halloween.
Sarge

And my Birthday is on October 30th!

Sarge, I'd better warn you:
If I ever meet ya, you're gonna get a big -yet manly- smooch on the cheek!

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:22 pm

I wanna see a photo of that, Mitch!

Regards! Michaelson

Mitch LaRue · Post by **Mitch LaRue** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:30 pm

Uh Oh!

(Maybe just a MANLY hand-shake then, Sarge!)

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:35 pm

I'd say go with the handshake, my friend.

Regard! Michaelson

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:52 pm

IndyBlues wrote:I'm absolutely in for one, but curious if the back panel is going to be attached closer to the shoulder seam on the Collector jacket?
Mike

I'd like to know that too Mike. That's a "make it or break it" feature for me. I guess we'll have to wait for pics.

Regards, Dr. J

Indyzane · Post by **Indyzane** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:45 pm

Two weeks before Halloween! $\:D/$ $\:D/$ $\:D/$ PRAISE THE JACKET AND PASS THE BISCUITS!!!!!

Kentucky Blues · Post by **Kentucky Blues** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:15 pm

Okay, is two weeks before halloween going to be when it can be ordered, or when it will start shipping? Also, provided they are going to be numeric sizes, is it known yet which numeric sizes will be offered? Like what the smallest and largest sizes will be? These questions could make or break the purchase for me... or at least have an effect on it's priority

-KB

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:39 pm

I believe the operative word was 'release' date, not 'order' date.

Regards! Michaelson

Kentucky Blues · Post by **Kentucky Blues** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:45 pm

Michaelson wrote:I believe the operative word was 'release' date, not 'order' date.

Regards! Michaelson

I realized that, but forgot to put in in my post. I guess what I really want to know is, what does release date mean?

-KB

Raskolnikov · Post by **Raskolnikov** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:54 pm

Sgt. wrote:Lamb is great for a night out on the town.. Calf and or Cow is the Jacket for every day!!

crismans wrote: I think Sarge is dead on in what hide is the best for what situation. Lamb is definitely more of a "going into town" jacket, while calfhide would be better for day to day use. It's just a tougher hide.

Just out of curiosity, Sarge, Crismans or anybody else around: how would you say is calfskin compared with goat? (goatskin is my favourite choice for everyday jackets, along with cow. I would like to hear about their differences and/or similarities)

Regards,
Rask

Post by **Holt** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:30 pm

goat is a stiffer and a way more sturdy leather.

calf is thin and drapy but still tough, its very soft and ages beutifully. goatskin takes a few years, 10 or so to show alittle age...

PsychicsAndSwords · Post by **PsychicsAndSwords** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:13 pm

As far as long-term durability goes, does anyone know how calf compares to other leathers?

Raskolnikov · Post by **Raskolnikov** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:31 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:goat is a stiffer and a way more sturdy leather.

calf is thin and drapy but still tough, its very soft and ages beutifully. goatskin takes a few years, 10 or so to show alittle age...

Thanks

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:33 pm

PsychicsAndSwords wrote:As far as long-term durability goes, does anyone know how calf compares to other leathers?

About equal to cowhide in tensile strength.

Regards! Michaelson

Kentucky Blues · Post by **Kentucky Blues** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:42 pm

Michaelson wrote:
PsychicsAndSwords wrote:As far as long-term durability goes, does anyone know how calf compares to other leathers?
About equal to cowhide in tensile strength.

Regards! Michaelson

So it's like cowhide only thinner..... It's amazing how similar calfskin can be to cowhide... it's like it comes from almost the same animal!

-KB

PS: this cowhide similarity is a huge part of the reason mr. close enough (me) is so interested in a screen accurate replica. The AMAZING deal on it is merely coincidence

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:35 pm

Kentucky Blues wrote:So it's like cowhide only thinner..... It's amazing how similar calfskin can be to cowhide... it's like it comes from almost the same animal!

Glad somebody figured that out....

Regards! Michaelson

HWaltonJonesJr.Phd · Post by **HWaltonJonesJr.Phd** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:28 pm

Michaelson wrote:Agreed, but it's been the calfskin that's been the elusive hide, let alone the real Cooper patterns, that many of us have sought after all these years.

Regard! Michaelson

I am surprised nobody asked Neil Cooper what hide he used until now... and the 'real' patterns weren't sold with his company?

Don't get me wrong, I think this offering will be amazing. AND a long time coming!!

Cheers, H

theman · Post by **theman** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:16 pm

I think that thought has occurred to many HW...

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:58 pm

Who said he was never asked?

This is OLD OLD OLD OLD OLD OLD OLD OLD OLD OLD OLD OLD (did I mention 'OLD'?) information that goes CLEAR back to Indyfan.com, and has been known for years and years and years and years by a great many of us....but no one would believe it.

Seeing how you two have only been with us since 2008, it's not surprising you didn't know this.

We have collectively been told 'lambskin' forever, and after being repeated enough, it was taken as being THE only leather used.

Now that Neil Cooper has been finally convinced to return to the table after a 25 year absence, folks are finally believing what has been said all this time.

Same with the patterns, but once again, anytime anything regarding Wings/Cooper was ever brought up or introduced here, or anywhere else for that matter, NO one would believe it. It either caused a firestorm, or was completely ignored. Once again, it was dropped in complete frustration.

It was known sooner or later it would re-surface, and those in the hobby would start thinking, 'hey, wait a minute.....'.

It was the same with the soft felt fedora. No one would believe until a few started LOOKING at the frame grabs and READING the posted research did they realize Indy's hat WASN'T as stiff as a board. It was years before that happened. Now you hardly ever SEE a stiff felt Indy fedora.

Looks like it's finally the jackets turn.

Regards! Michaelson

Vindy · Post by **Vindy** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:15 pm

And another one jumps in...

Sent my email to Myke, I'm going for the Raiders in calfskin. Thanks Sarge!

Oh, and Holt, looking good in the US Wings "Indy Super Summer Sale" flyer that I recieved via email yesterday!

Sgt. · Post by **Sgt.** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:20 pm

Michaelson wrote:Agreed, but it's been the calfskin that's been the elusive hide, let alone the real Cooper patterns, that many of us have sought after all these years.

Regard! Michaelson

I am surprised nobody asked Neil Cooper what hide he used until now... and the 'real' patterns weren't sold with his company?
Don't get me wrong, I think this offering will be amazing. AND a long time coming!! - HWaltonJonesJr.Phd

I guess most of the Fans never ask Michaelson or did not listen to Him some 12 years ago!I think M. over the years said you should take a close look at US Wings ! Neil Cooper did not sell Coopersportswear and or Cooper LLC Nor did I ever say he did.. Neil and I made and sold Jackets together world wide.. Every Jacket I had in my line up until five years ago was a Neil Cooper Jacket and a Neil Cooper Pattern.. Neil Retired from the Business five years ago.. How could Neil Cooper sell any Pattern when US Wings and He were business partners!!Written contract on file with our Corp. Attorney.. US Wings Inc. has always had the rights to http://www.cooperjackets.com and http://www.cooper-jackers.com ever since retail sales went online!
M. has ask me for over ten years to ask Neil to make the Raiders Indy knowing he did in fact make the HF Calf Indiana Jones Raiders Jacket no matter what has been said..I ask Neil if he would go into business with me one last time to make all four Indy Jackets as a 50% Partnership and He said Yes! And Fans Neil Cooper is a person that does not talk about a lot of things He just does it.. Cut and Dry.
Neil and I will make all four Indy Jackets with or without the officially licensed from George Lucas and we will start with the Raiders and go forward.
Sarge
PS Michaelson has always known what was going on.. As a matter of Fact M. has had a copy of every Contract with Neil Cooper and US Wings Inc... A little trust goes a long way... " Enjoy"

Gringo · Post by **Gringo** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:28 pm

I always stayed out of the leather wars. But I knew as M, it was calf. I went with the flow.

Sgt. · Post by **Sgt.** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:00 pm

Gringo wrote:I always stayed out of the leather wars. But I knew as M, it was calf. I went with the flow.

You guys for the most part have never been on set.. I hate to admite it But I have over the years and as a matter of fact for a very long time.. A lot of my close friends are working Actors.... There were two leathers that I know of One was a Dark Brown Calf and the other was a Seal Brown Striated Lamb.. Lamb you may have one shot and that is it..Lamb does not hold up plain and simple.. Don't run through the woods and or roll around on the ground..Calf and or Naked Cow hold up great..I love the Naked Cow we have in our Hero Jacket.. the best Street Jacket in the world....
Sarge

Gringo · Post by **Gringo** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:22 pm

Not quoting you, but being in the leather buisness I always knew lamb was for fashion. I can see the difference a mile away. I cant wait to see the hero cow. Thanks Sarge

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:08 am

Luckily that one striated lamb jacket lasted through 90% of the movie as far as I can tell. Is anyone able to confirm which scenes the calf jackets were in? I'm guessing Bantu Wind dock and Imam's House.

Post by **Holt** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:06 am

Vindy wrote:
Oh, and Holt, looking good in the US Wings "Indy Super Summer Sale" flyer that I recieved via email yesterday!

theman · Post by **theman** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:13 am

Sgt. wrote: You guys for the most part have never been on set.. I hate to admite it But I have over the years and as a matter of fact for a very long time.. A lot of my close friends are working Actors.... There were two leathers that I know of One was a Dark Brown Calf and the other was a Seal Brown Striated Lamb.. Lamb you may have one shot and that is it..Lamb does not hold up plain and simple.. Don't run through the woods and or roll around on the ground..Calf and or Naked Cow hold up great..I love the Naked Cow we have in our Hero Jacket.. the best Street Jacket in the world....
Sarge

This kind of statement makes very good sense actually... I can totally see a calfskin jacket being used for rough and tumble scenes and the striated lamb for the many close-up detail hero shots that you can see those characteristics in clearly. And such a wonderful idea to offer both choices for those that desire different jacket usage.

- just because someone doesn't start contributing as a full on member doesn't mean they weren't reading up on the Indy stuff for a few years prior.
I prefer to know a little of what I am talking about before just letting my fingers think, so until I actually had the feeling I could help out around here I never bothered to get a screen name and post. I had been working closely and gaining experience on leather jackets/apparel along with Indy gear for a couple years before joining here, and even at that point eased my way into things. I think the ones who know me from other forums can attest to the way I prefer to have substance if I am going to post at all. It should be general practice to be a lurker for quite some time until really digging in to any decent forum.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:52 am

Ok. That being the case, you should have come across the fact that Cooper HAD been asked before, and MANY years ago. It's scattered all through the jacket discussions over two different sites since we got on the internet back in the mid 90's, so I guess you missed it in all your reading prior to joining this site. That's what I was responding to. It was REALLY OLD news.

I hope you will pardon my abrupt reply, and my STRONGLY worded answer above...but that was like asking if anyone had ever thought of asking Richard Swales any questions regarding his involvement with the HJ hat.

At first read, it was almost like a slap in the face of the 'old timers' who have been chasing these facts since Raiders first came out. Facts had been chased, posted,discussed, ignored, then buried....and now that they're re-appeared, folks are asking 'why didn't anyone ever think of asking this before?'

I apologize.

Regards! Michaelson

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:48 am

Just sent my email to get on the list.

Sgt. · Post by **Sgt.** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:02 am

Michaelson wrote:Ok. That being the case, you should have come across the fact that Cooper HAD been asked before, and MANY years ago. It's scattered all through the jacket discussions over two different sites since we got on the internet back in the mid 90's, so I guess you missed it in all your reading prior to joining this site. That's what I was responding to. It was REALLY OLD news.

I hope you will pardon my abrupt reply, and my STRONGLY worded answer above...but that was like asking if anyone had ever thought of asking Richard Swales any questions regarding his involvement with the HJ hat.

At first read, it was almost like a slap in the face of the 'old timers' who have been chasing these facts since Raiders first came out. Facts had been chased, posted,discussed, ignored, then buried....and now that they're re-appeared, folks are asking 'why didn't anyone ever think of asking this before?'

I apologize.

Regards! Michaelson

Well said Michaelson.. Some people just did not read the memo! Neil and I just want to make the Raiders Indy Jacket along with the other three for each Indiana Jones Movie! Since 1917 The Cooper Family have been making Leather Jackets ! I am very excited about the Idea of US Wings being in the Forefront of Making and Marketing all Four Indy Jackets!...After looking at the total picture for the past 30 years I honestly feel US Wings is the only company can and will be succesful.
Sarge

Forrest For the Trees · Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:43 pm

Michaelson wrote:Ok. That being the case, you should have come across the fact that Cooper HAD been asked before, and MANY years ago. It's scattered all through the jacket discussions over two different sites since we got on the internet back in the mid 90's, so I guess you missed it in all your reading prior to joining this site. That's what I was responding to. It was REALLY OLD news.

I hope you will pardon my abrupt reply, and my STRONGLY worded answer above...but that was like asking if anyone had ever thought of asking Richard Swales any questions regarding his involvement with the HJ hat.

At first read, it was almost like a slap in the face of the 'old timers' who have been chasing these facts since Raiders first came out. Facts had been chased, posted,discussed, ignored, then buried....and now that they're re-appeared, folks are asking 'why didn't anyone ever think of asking this before?'

I apologize.

Regards! Michaelson

M, just thought I would throw my perspective into this, as another fairly new member. I have been reading posts here off and on since 2006, and sure enough, the jacket has been the most controversial piece of Indy gear, which made for great reading. Since the jacket is the only thing on this site that really keeps me coming back for more (besides the interesting discussions and good folks, of course!), I've done as much back-reading as I can stand.

Reading between the lines these past four years, it has been clear to me that Cooper was involved in some way with the jacket designs for the film production. The last two years or so, _ has made known to us on COW some highly revealing research involving the Temple jacket and most recently, the Raiders jacket. _ has always hinted and nudged that the jacket may have been cowhide of some sort, but only recently was this more or less confirmed.

So, to many of us, this is kind of new information. Or at least it seems new, since folks are openly discussing it, instead of having it lie beneath the surface.

Cheers

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:45 pm

Like I will reiterate, it hasn't been, and has been openly discussed at length many times since 1996.

As has been said about many things, and many times, 'what was once old is now 'new' again'....

If it's new to you, so be it. It honestly isn't, but 'we're' pleased old information is now seeing light of day again.

What WAS new to us was 'how' the Cooper jacket entered the equation, not the 'what'.

Regards! Michaelson

Ravenswood · Post by **Ravenswood** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:59 pm

Thanks _ and Cooper for bringing this "new/old" info to light. It certainly raised my eyebrows. I may have known all along, but perhaps all the previous posts regarding lambskin being the leather of choice for Raiders jackets, obscured that detail over the years.
All I know is, I have a distinct feeling that I will be investing in the fall line up!

Thanks again!
Ravenswood

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:10 pm

What we KNEW was about was the calfskin jacket. What we DIDN'T know was the events that lead to it being inserted into the film, not until the past year or so.

Regards! Michaelson

Band Director Jones · Post by **Band Director Jones** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:16 pm

I still contend that the jacket was made from either squirrel or wild chihuahua.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:17 pm

I'll submit that to the administration for correction to the history as well, BDJ!

Regards! Michaelson

Band Director Jones · Post by **Band Director Jones** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:30 pm

Michaelson wrote:I'll submit that to the administration for correction to the history as well, BDJ!

Regards! Michaelson

$\:D/$

Cowboy · Post by **Cowboy** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:20 pm

Wow. I take 1 year off and come back to find I have been left way behind! I too added my name to the list. 2 of my 3 don't fit anymore anyways.

Howdy Michaelson, _ and gang.

Sgt. · Post by **Sgt.** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:34 pm

Cowboy wrote:Wow. I take 1 year off and come back to find I have been left way behind! I too added my name to the list. 2 of my 3 don't fit anymore anyways. Howdy Michaelson, _ and gang.

Did I hear Michaelson say he is ordering a Custom made Raiders Indy as a Welcome Back?
" There is no Fireside like your own Fireside"
Sarge