Barons hatshop

[Bruce Wayne]

From what I can tell they didn't make any hats for any of the four movies. Is this correct?

Thanx!!!
Charlie

[Strider]

Just do a quick search on Barons. Lots of info in here.

[Indiana Bugs]

Theres a current thread at FL about Barons. The conclusion is that their advertising is misleading at best.

[jlee562]

They claim to have done a ToD hat, but I've never seen anything about it other than on Baron's website. We all know what went down with Indy IV, but I have no idea what the story is with ToD.

[eazybox]

This was a very big issue a couple of years back, and we were told to tread carefu\ully because of possible libel issues. I think Baron still claims that they supplied boxes and worked on reshaping some of the hats for INDY 4 that got deformed in shipping. Whether that claim is true or not, I don't know, but AB was given full credit for the hats by the costume designer, Bernie Pollack.

Jack

[jlee562]

This was a very big issue a couple of years back, and we were told to tread carefu\ully because of possible libel issues. I think Baron still claims that they supplied boxes and worked on reshaping some of the hats for INDY 4 that got deformed in shipping. Whether that claim is true or not, I don't know, but Steve Delk was given full credit for the hats by the costume designer, Bernie Pollack.

Jack

Steve has said that Mark at Baron's did work on some of the hats where the creases had popped out during shipping, but even that was under Bernie's eye.

See: http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... on#p444676 and http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... on#p443816

Baron's website currently states:
http://baronhats.com/cliffhanger_redux.htm

Baron Hats is proud to have made Harrison's fedora for "Temple of Doom', (which we also offer as a reproduction, called "The Cliffhanger"), along with having made the already much talked about cap that Shia wears in his role as "Mutt Williams" in "Crystal Skull", (we offer a reproduction of that cap as well, which we call the "Rebel Sidekick"), and we are equally as proud to have done additional work on Harrison's newest Fedora for "Crystal Skull".

But they clearly claim to have made a ToD hat...was it ever on screen? Did they make a sample and send it in? I'm now more interested in their ToD claims as the Indy IV issue has been dealt with.

[Mattdeckard]

When I was griping about the front to back taper of the Indy4 hat, Steve Delk mentioned that all the hats in Indy 4 were reblocked by Baron hats.

All of them but the gray one used in Indy 4 I think is what he wrote, which explains why the gray hat has the tall untapered crown, and all the brown hats looked like this.

[BendingOak]

When I was griping about the front to back taper of the Indy4 hat, Steve Delk mentioned that all the hats in Indy 4 were reblocked by Baron hats.

All of them but the gray one used in Indy 4 I think is what he wrote, which explains why the gray hat has the tall untapered crown, and all the brown hats looked like this.

You are wrong. Bernie used the term blocked when he meant bashed or creased. Barons did nothing more than adjust the creases when they popped out and bernie was there the entire time telling him what to do. After a short time bernie took over re-creasing them but to this day still uses the wrong term.

[eazybox]

[quote="

But they clearly claim to have made a ToD hat...was it ever on screen? Did they make a sample and send it in? I'm now more interested in their ToD claims as the Indy IV issue has been dealt with.

As I understand it, they can legally claim to have made a hat for TOD even if it was only submitted and never shown onscreen. Their "Cliffhanger" doesn't look much like a TOD hat to me, but they do say it's a "replication," which is not the same as claiming it's a perfect replica.



Jack

[Mattdeckard]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23768&hilit=taper&start=200 Steve Delk --

Yeah, I cringed when I saw that. But, THAT was the first hat that got totally saturated and Bernie did not know to pop out the crown to let it dry. On the next hat that got saturated he did pop out that crown. We talked about it on the phone right after it happened. So, the tapered hat, in the film should have been swapped out for another one. Not like they did not have plenty left over and not used. I think at the time, he MAY have had only a couple of hats with him for Harrison, or had his hats already "set" for other scenes and had to use that one.

On the gray hat, well, I MAY have been sneaky and sneaked my original Raiders block back into the film........

By the way, the liners were snow white as sent. They had to tone down the white, and although you can't see them, they even added fake sweat stains on the hat you see the inside of. To me, the liner just looks like some that I get in that are extraordinarily dirty...... Fedora

Alright, that hat is tapered and the gray one is the only one that used Steve's Raiders style block.

He could have meant creased. Mark Mejia at Baron is the one who told me he re-blocked the hats in Crystal Skulls.

As it is, Baron shaped the hat. Didn't make the hat, but what Baron did ended up on screen.

[jlee562]

[quote="

But they clearly claim to have made a ToD hat...was it ever on screen? Did they make a sample and send it in? I'm now more interested in their ToD claims as the Indy IV issue has been dealt with.

As I understand it, they can legally claim to have made a hat for TOD even if it was only submitted and never shown onscreen. Their "Cliffhanger" doesn't look much like a TOD hat to me, but they do say it's a "replication," which is not the same as claiming it's a perfect replica.



Jack

Ironically, their "Cliffhanger Redux" hat, supposedly a KOTCS "replica" looks more TOD than their regular "Cliffhanger" model.

[eazybox]

Ironically, their "Cliffhanger Redux" hat, supposedly a KOTCS "replica" looks more TOD than their regular "Cliffhanger" model.

I agree.

Jack

[BendingOak]

Barons work never made it on screen because Bernie ended up tweaking everything on set and location. Baron hats have no claim to it at all. Sorry to burst you bubble.

Mark M is full of it.


Great way to sell hats. Make a claim
you made hats for a movie because you tweaked a couple of creases.

He and many others submitted hats for 4 and was rejected.

[Indiana Jeff]

Similar conversation took place a while back on this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=46493

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Castor Dioscuri]

Didn't they make Mutt's hat though?

[eazybox]

Didn't they make Mutt's hat though?

Yes, they did.

Jack

[eazybox]

I don't know how much of this will survive the mod's scrutiny, but if I recall correctly, Mark never actually made a public claim that he made the hats for Indy 4; but people who interviewed him got that impression (on more than one occasion) and were "allowed" to make the claim for him. If questioned about it later, he could say he was misquoted by his interviewers. This is known as "plausible deniability." But since it happened in more than one interview, perhaps "implausible deniability" would be a more accurate term in this case.

I'm not saying that we know for a certainty that Mark deliberately set out to manipulate the media in this fashion-- but it definitely can and has been interpreted that way. At the very least, Mark did nothing to set the record straight about who actually made the Indy 4 hats after those inaccurate interviews came out.

A friend of Mark's claims he was there and witnessed Mark reblocking all the hats for Indy 4. Take that for what it's worth (I don't believe it, personally-- I have an Indy 4 hat made by Steve and it's a dead ringer for the hats we see on film, whereas the hats Mark is selling are not), but I've read that guy's posts on The Raven and The Fedora Chronicles. Mark himself was invited repeatedly to give his own account of what happened; as far as I know, he never did.

Anyway, the furor seems to have cooled down in the last year or two and Steve Delk even posted some conciliatory words of forgiveness. So if he was able to get past it and move on, perhaps we should, too-- at least until someone else starts a new thread about it.

Jack

[BendingOak]

steve is a good man and his word I can trust and I believe most here has let it go. Someone came in here and brought that stuff with him. Some just wanted to make sure things are clear.

The last time I looked. Not telling the truth is a lie. If Mark of barons hats tries and sell his hats by not being clear and bending the truth so people take him the wrong way. I would call that very sneaky and a lie. I wouldn't trust a single word that he states.

As for that friend he states he saw him re-block every hat. I call him a out on that. The proof is right in front of everyone to see. You don't have to look at only the shape of the hat but the other detailed " tells" steve sews on his ribbon better than that guy every will.

John

[Michaelson]

Yeah, it's probably best that old fodder be left on the compost pile.

It was REALLY taken to task on Renderking Fisk's site, and there were several things discovered to be 'amiss' in the whole affair.

Best let it just lie in the dirt where it was left.

Regards! Michaelson

[mcmanm]

_,

What do you think about the claims made of the ToD hat? I loved your thread on the true story of the Raiders hat and would be interested in hearing the background of how the ToD hat(s) came to be.

Matt

[Fedora]

When I was griping about the front to back taper of the Indy4 hat, Steve Delk mentioned that all the hats in Indy 4 were reblocked by Baron hats.

All of them but the gray one used in Indy 4 I think is what he wrote, which explains why the gray hat has the tall untapered crown, and all the brown hats looked like this.

"Blocked" to Bernie meant, "creased."

Since Bernie had chosen the block (the wood block) used for this hat, he would not want that basic shape changed by anyone. And it wasn't. So, yes, the hero hat in this film came directly off of the block Bernie had chosen. A very old fedora block, by the way. And rare today.

The front to back taper was due to the height Bernie chose for the front and the back. He chose 4 1/4 on the back, which was too tall to crease out the taper in the wood block. But some hats in the film were dropped to 4, which did take out the back taper. I never argued with Bernie, I just did what he wanted done. That was my job, to give him what he demanded of me. I could have told him, to drop the back down another 1/4 an inch to straighten up the back, but that wasn't my job. So, the hat you see on film is Bernie's hat, with his specs, and no doubt he was in contact with S.S. in regards to the entire costume. I guess his job was to please S.S. and mine was to please Bernie.

And most here know that a mistake was made at Western Costume and a shorter sample hat with a bit larger brim was sent to Hawaii. Bernie discovered it AFTER the scene was shot, and had to use it again later on for continuity, or so he told me. So, the shorter hat got some film time, but most were the taller model. He was miffed about this, but said it looked ok.(the shorter hat)

The gray hats were off a completely different wood block. It's my Raiders block today, and it too is an old vintage block, as my own work matched a vintage block I had, so I just had the vintage block replicated. But the gray CS hat is a tall hat, taller than any other Indy fedora, IMO. Bernie just told me to make it a little different, and to make it a little taller, which I did. He originally wanted a color known as Oxford Gray. Which I did not have. So, he went ahead and used the gray that I did stock. And I creased it down low enough in back to get rid of any taper, since I was given no specs on the creases, So, the gray hat is me, all the way. My choice. Wish I could say the same for the brown hats! But just did what I was told.

[Indiana Blooze]

That's the real story...

And I agree - Steve Delk is a real gentleman. A true class act. I, on the otherhand, am no Steve Delk...

While you may not consider yourself a gentleman, (a scoundrel maybe? ), I do appreciate the research that you do before you make your statements.

[Michaelson]

He treads boldly where angels fear to tread!

Regards! Michaelson

[BendingOak]

I'm glad you guys came in cleared this up. Don't have any lost love when it comes to barons hats.

[Indiana Blooze]

I tend to think it's a mixture of INTJ personality type with a possible "pinch" of Asperger's syndrome thrown in... The wife refers to me as high functioning but often inappropriately honest... Don't read "bravery" or "boldness" into what I say - I just don't know any better?

So what yer trying to say is, your mouth, on occasion, has been known to get you in trouble? Ahh yes, I know that syndrome well

[binkmeisterRick]

Loose lips sink ships!

[kiltie]

Loose lips sink ships!

Ahh ha ha haaaa...

I always thought it was: Loose lips sling shi...
er...nope, that's just what people say about me. Nevermind.

[bigrex]

I tend to think it's a mixture of INTJ personality type with a possible "pinch" of Asperger's syndrome thrown in... The wife refers to me as high functioning but often inappropriately honest... Don't read "bravery" or "boldness" into what I say - I just don't know any better?

So what yer trying to say is, your mouth, on occasion, has been known to get you in trouble? Ahh yes, I know that syndrome well

Sounds like my cousin, and she's a lawyer too, except she's probably more high-strung and persnickety.

[BendingOak]

I'm just glade steve saw this and cleared it all up for everyone.

[crismans]

I suppose you could read it that way (if you really wanted to and tried really hard). From my perspective, who better to answer than Steve--the man that we know made the hats?

[Michaelson]

As I mentioned above, this should have stayed on the compost pile. As you can read in this now locked thread from 2008, it was a tenderbox back then!

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31268&hilit=barons

It popped up yet again in 2009, and THAT one was locked.

So, unless someone can give 'us' a reason for this one to continue, the question was answered, and it's been beaten to death on more than one occasion (as alluded to in MY reply above), with proof in the link above.

Time to ring the curtain down one MORE time on this topic.

Regards! Michaelson