Remember that weird English hat block?

In-depth discussion of the Fedora of Indiana Jones and all other hats appearing in the Indiana Jones movies

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Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Fedora »

Some may recall me talking about the English made very old hat block I once talked about. To refresh, I bought this block from London, a few years ago, stored it up and pulled it back out when LLS came to visit a couple years ago. It is untypical of American hat blocks, as all of the American hat blocks I have seen are symetrical, or at least those old blockmakers TRIED to make them so.

This block below is a side shot of that old English block. I can tell, this one was not machine made, but is old enough to have been handmade, which is an art form by the way. As anyone who has made blocks by hand will tell ya. Now, something that is also unusual about the hat block below is that it does not fall into what American blockmakers traditionally used to define a round oval, a regular oval, etc. This block here falls in between a round oval and a regular oval, and I have to wonder if the Brits used different differentials when making their traditional blocks. I just don't know for sure. But with that said, this hat, that is in my size, fits fine, probably because the softer felt makes the hat conform to my head shape. Here is that old English wood block.

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Like me, you may have been curious as to what sort of fedora this old block would lend. Well, here ya go! But do notice how this new hat, non distressed bulges out above the ribbon, while new. This is purely a function of this strange English blockshape.

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Actually not that bad for a Raiders fedora, which tells me once again, various blockshapes will lend this look, fairly close, which explains how we see various blockshapes that seem to work out pretty close. IMO. I would not have thought that years ago when I first started my quest in replicating the Raiders fedora. Time and experience has showed me, why it is so hard to nail it 100 per cent, due to various and even weird looking blocks pulling off the look decently. Of course blocks that will do so, do share commonalities in certain areas, that seem to be very important. Like the sides being fairly straight, relatively speaking. It you move too far away from the straightness, it eventually will show up in the creased hat. I think that is a given.

With this hat above, you are taking a step back in time, and can see IF the hat made from this block, was creased Raiders style, back then, it would look decent. Plus, I doubt anyone has ever seen this very old blockshape on any hats to date. I think if I were young, and just starting out in hatting, this is the block I would use to create and sell my own AB adventure hat line, as well as the Indy hats. The charm to me, is that this is a very old English block, original. And has to be one of the rarest blockshapes out in the hat world today.

And because of this, when I do finally get the time to make myself my camel hat, this is the block I will use to do so. Since this block is a 7 1/4 English size, and I wear a 22 7/8 hat, I can use it for my own hats. And wear it with the knowledge that I am wearing an ancient blockshape, and English to boot. And also, I will be only one of two folks that own one! (this one isn't mine) :lol: Regards, Fedora
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Michaelson »

Fedora wrote:.....and wear it with the knowledge that I am wearing an ancient blockshape, and English to boot. And also, I will be only one of two folks that own one! (this one isn't mine) :lol: Regards, Fedora

Darn. Since I wear 23", I know it can't be me! (grins)

That's an amazing piece of detective work, as usual, Steve!

HIGH regards! Michaelson
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Texan Scott »

That's an interesting read...so the bulge in the felt above the ribbon could have been the block shape all along? No doubt, heat and perspiration may have enhanced the effect?
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Michaelson »

I think you're right, Tex. Heat and humidity would do nothing but exaggerate the effect.

Regards! Michaelson
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Texan Scott »

Steve,

I have ordered a Raiders fedora from you recently, and if you think this English block would make a better raiders hat, feel free to use it, if it is not too late in the process...?

Thanks,

Scott
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Fedora »

That's an interesting read...so the bulge in the felt above the ribbon could have been the block shape all along? No doubt, heat and perspiration may have enhanced the effect?

Beats me. In hatting, what you THINK you know changes over time. :lol: Seems like I know less today than back when I first started. But, I don't see the sides bulging in the newer looking hats in Raiders. You do see some curvature on the sides, on the behind the scenes footage of Ford, right before he does his part in being dragged behind the truck. Which I guess could have morphed into the bulging SOC fedora. I always thought that was due to the characteristics of the felt used for that hat.

This block above has no bulging on the block itself, it just happened when I creased the hat. Now, one might get the idea that this English block bulged, but no, it has just a little taper on the sides, and a long radius on the top/sides that form the camel humps of the hat. This is not the Raiders block IMO, just a peculiar English block that is very old. I just happen to like the looks of the hat that came off it. It is different, yet a little Indyish too. I was actually a bit shocked that the hat looks the way that it does. I would have never figured that it would, going by what the block looks like. I also thought with so much taper on the back of the block, I could not get the back straight, in the creased hat. But even that amount of taper creased out when I put in the top crease. These blocks are tricky little devils. :lol:
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Baldwyn »

Fedora wrote:
Beats me. In hatting, what you THINK you know changes over time. :lol: Seems like I know less today than back when I first started. But, I don't see the sides bulging in the newer looking hats in Raiders. You do see some curvature on the sides, on the behind the scenes footage of Ford, right before he does his part in being dragged behind the truck. Which I guess could have morphed into the bulging SOC fedora. I always thought that was due to the characteristics of the felt used for that hat.

This block above has no bulging on the block itself, it just happened when I creased the hat. Now, one might get the idea that this English block bulged, but no, it has just a little taper on the sides, and a long radius on the top/sides that form the camel humps of the hat. This is not the Raiders block IMO, just a peculiar English block that is very old. I just happen to like the looks of the hat that came off it. It is different, yet a little Indyish too. I was actually a bit shocked that the hat looks the way that it does. I would have never figured that it would, going by what the block looks like. I also thought with so much taper on the back of the block, I could not get the back straight, in the creased hat. But even that amount of taper creased out when I put in the top crease. These blocks are tricky little devils. :lol:
Very cool, I appreciate you sharing block pictures and the resulting hats! Funny, I was wondering the other day if it was possible to create a software block to creased hat simulator :) It'd be one heck of a computer science project!
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Fedora »

Funny, I was wondering the other day if it was possible to create a software block to creased hat simulator It'd be one heck of a computer science project!
Some smart guy probably could. One variable that might make it difficult though would be the variability of felts. Depending upon fur content, the weight, the amount of shellac in the crown, or the lack of it would affect the end result. Different felt "moves" differently. On one type of felt if you put in the top crease, it pulls the sides in "X" amount, affecting the radius on the sides of the camel humps. If you then do with with say a thinner, softer felt, this causes the sides to move in differently, changing the sides of the humps radius. On a stiff hat, using a slightly tapered block, the top crease tends to pull the sides in to just a bit of taper showing. Take that same block and put a soft rabbit felt on it, and the sides stay straight.

Along these same lines, marc and I found out years ago that the type of felt you use dictates block shape, if you are really trying to nail an identical look, like an Indy fedora. If you are using say pure dense beaver which because of its denseness has a little natural stiffness, or body to it, you make your block to work with this felt. If you take that same block, made for the denser beaver, and block a soft porous rabbit body on it, you get an exaggerated look, when compared to the beaver. The sides will appear even straighter on the soft felt, which then makes the top of the crown look different than the beaver.

Now, I understand to many, these details are trivial, but the more you look at hats, the more nuances are visible. I can even seen nuances between hats that I make each day. I doubt few can, but they do stand out to me. I can even see these same differences in the CS film hats. Why the differences? Each are creased using a ruler for the length of the front creases, as well as the front and back height.

Yet there seems to be at least 2 "looks" that show up when I crease these hats, and each one is creased identically. I think it is just a variation in felt, as that is the only logical explanation that comes to mind. Even within a single run of felt bodies, there can be minute differences, perhaps due to the fur coming from different animals, etc.

And I guess that when you get to this point, of seeing differences in what should be identical hats, it means you have entered into the realm of Mad Hatters Disease. Perhaps it really wasn't the mercury that made those old hatters go mad. Perhaps hatmaking is a dark craft that eventually drives the hatter insane. :lol: THAT would explain it! ;) Fedora
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Baldwyn »

Fedora wrote:

And I guess that when you get to this point, of seeing differences in what should be identical hats, it means you have entered into the realm of Mad Hatters Disease. Perhaps it really wasn't the mercury that made those old hatters go mad. Perhaps hatmaking is a dark craft that eventually drives the hatter insane. :lol: THAT would explain it! ;) Fedora
I think people have to be a little batty to even consider becoming a hatter :)
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by BendingOak »

really, to late. :CR:
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Michaelson »

:- :[
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Texan Scott »

Especially with rabbit felt, sometimes it seems like the felt has a callic.
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Indiana Bugs »

Whats a callic?
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Indiana Jeff »

Steve,

What are your thoughts for non-Indy bashed hats off this block? Something with less tight pinch and a different crease, say a six point? Think alot of taper will show up or the dimensions will look off?

Q: What is a calic in hair
A: Cowlick: (n.), a tuft of hair that grows in a different direction from the rest of the hair and usually will not lie flat.
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Indiana Bugs »

I would say that a 6-point will decrease the amount of taper. Center dents usually cause the most taper. In a hat with a center dent and no taper, a teardrop or c-crown or 6-point may even result in reverse taper. At least this has been my experience.
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by BendingOak »

scottyrocks6 wrote:I would say that a 6-point will decrease the amount of taper. Center dents usually cause the most taper. In a hat with a center dent and no taper, a teardrop or c-crown or 6-point may even result in reverse taper. At least this has been my experience.

I would agree.
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by WyoWilliam »

Very cool! I know there's been a lot of discussion about the back of the hat, which has always been of the most interest to me as the Raiders hat was so different from all the rest in that respect. How does it look from behind?
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Re: Remember that weird English hat block?

Post by Fedora »

I would say that a 6-point will decrease the amount of taper. Center dents usually cause the most taper. In a hat with a center dent and no taper, a teardrop or c-crown or 6-point may even result in reverse taper. At least this has been my experience.
I agree too with John.
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