How to dull the brass buckle??

[generalFROSTY]

I want to make the brass buckle of my web belt look less like a factory new piece and more like something that has been through many encouters with hostile natives, booby trapped temples, trecherous caves and jungles, impromptu water escapes...well, you get the point!

[maboot38]

I used sandpaper and a wire brush on mine, and I also wore it fishing in the ocean.

I believe someone actually posted a brass aging tutorial on here somewhere. I'll look for it.

[maboot38]

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5702&hilit=distress+web+belt

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26820&hilit=web+belt+aging

[maboot38]

Then you gotta wear it while fishing waist deep in the ocean. That'll take the shine off!!

[generalFROSTY]

My fiancee once dripped some of her lense cleaner solution on my metal Rocketeer helmet. It had oxidized green by the time I noticed. I used Brasso to clean the 'green' oxidation off, but there remained a brownish mark on the metal where the solution had dripped. This may be an option to explore - anyone know of any other solutions that may discolor the brass?

[matt black]

I posted a 'how to' on here about a year ago. I made a mix of malt vinegar, window cleaner and bleach. I then took the shine off the buckle with a scotch pad then left the buckle in the mix for a couple of hours. When I took it out It had the green oxidization on it. Then just buff it up to bring back a bit of shine. Looks nice and old. Or you could go fishing like Knibs. You might even catch something for your dinner.

[generalFROSTY]

I could use my aging technique that I did for my Rocketeer helmet:
I used a mixture of acrylic paints - brown, black, gold, brush on the surface, then wipe down and repeat until enough of the color has built up. Then, buff down the paint with a damp cotton ball and seal it with a clear coat.

[Digger4Glory]

Make sure you know what kind of metal your buckle is before you begin to destress it. Some of these newer buckles are thinly brass plated and can rust.

[ANZAC_1915]

My recollection is Noel Howard said they used sandpaper/wire brush.

[hocfutue]

In the CW reenacting hobby, reenactors who wanted to dull the new shiny brass buttons they bought for their uniforms would sometimes dip them in urine. No, I am not making that up.

I understand the best results were obtained if you removed the buttons from the coat FIRST. I imagine the trick would work for a brass buckle, too.

Remember that a tarnished brass patina is different than a scratched brass surface. I'm not sure I'd go for the sandpaper method for tarnishing. Just my opinion.

[Digger4Glory]

I use to wear these belts all the time when I was a painter and the buckles never took long to tarnish just by regular wear. Like I said though make sure you know what kind of metal your buckle is made of. Years ago they were better made, I think solid brass. Today they seam so cheap and light weight. A thin coat of brass plating over cheap steel that will rust. Using steel wool would do a good job dulling it up. Just dont use a too fine a grade because it wont really do anything. If your going for a Raiders look after the Truck scene you might want to run a wire brush veritcally to get that dessert sand drag look in. That would be cool.

[Kt Templar]

The first thing is to get rid of the layer of varnish on the buckle. Paint stripper or acetone will do the trick, it should then start to oxidize naturally. You can use a fine abrasive like a scotchbrite. But try and let it oxidize by itself for a while, if you can leave it outside to the elements or bury it in the ground for a bit that might work too!

BTW check this out:

http://www.architecturalclassics.com/bl ... age-brass/

Ammonia will work too... back to the cat litter again.... this time the used variety...

EWWWWW!

[generalFROSTY]

I guess Indygearing and kitty litter go hand in hand?
I will try doing some sanding, then my own paint trick and post some photos soon.

[Kt Templar]

Ok doke, I had a little play.

Tried acetone... didn't take of the lacquer.

Tried hot vinegar. Overnight it took off some of the lacquer but didn't do anything to the finish.

Next took a really fine sandpaper and took off the lacquer. I did a gentle circular motion this gave a slight brushed finish to the buckle.

I then heated the buckle over a gas stove until it became red hot, it worked a treat, the surface went dull with that slightly iridescent patina.

So, you can avoid the chemicals and just give it a good heat up.

I'll take some pics when I have some daylight.

Kt (Mad Professor) Templar.

[generalFROSTY]

Ok doke, I had a little play.

Tried acetone... didn't take of the lacquer.

Tried hot vinegar. Overnight it took off some of the lacquer but didn't do anything to the finish.

Next took a really fine sandpaper and took off the lacquer. I did a gentle circular motion this gave a slight brushed finish to the buckle.

I then heated the buckle over a gas stove until it became red hot, it worked a treat, the surface went dull with that slightly iridescent patina.

So, you can avoid the chemicals and just give it a good heat up.

I'll take some pics when I have some daylight.

Kt (Mad Professor) Templar.

That heating method sounds like a good option - I'm looking forward to pics.

[Kt Templar]

Ok, here you go:



Not sure if heating will effect the strength of the brass. My metalwork knowledge is very hazy! Something in the back of my mind says something about brass becoming softer if heated... don't know.

Check out how black the pin went on the heated one!

[generalFROSTY]

I'm going to try an artificial distressing teqnique and see how that looks...I will post pics here for comments and suggestions...

[Ohio Jones]

If you want to dull it down....sand off the film over the brass. (sometimes they are lacquered to prevent tarnishing.) then take a coffee can and fill it with about an inch or two of ammonia. Get a piece of wire and poke it through the lid of the coffee can and wire the buckle to it. Suspend the buckle in the can with out it touching the ammonia. The fumes from the ammonia will react with the buckle and age it. Brass when fully aged turns black. The less time in there it will definitely dull down and change color. You could also suspend it flat and put some salt on it and fume it. The salt will add some blue and green color to it. The beauty is if you dont like it...you can sand it off (i use like 400 grit or finer) and do it again.

Hope this helps.

Ohio

[generalFROSTY]

Here's what I came up with:

[generalFROSTY]

Michael, that one looks pretty good - how do you plan on getting yours to match that?

[Digger4Glory]

I always found older things are usually made better. You could probably find some old used belts on ebay. They would already have that built in aged look because they are old but also be better made.
The down side is it takes the fun out of distressing! Nice job on your belt general frosty!
I like the promo image you made too, very cool!

[lantzn]

After seeing Raider's 57's awesome buckle, I did a search for "vintage brass web belt buckles" and various combinations of similar wording without any luck. I would be more than happy to forgo the the fun of distressing in this case, as I am afraid that the "passage of time" may be the only method available to truly emulate this look.

If anyone happens to have a buckle like this and is willing to part with it, (or if anyone finds one for sale,) I am definitely interested!!!

Michael

Here's a method using heat and a chemical I hadn't seen mentioned in the others.
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art24012.asp

How to Antique or Oxidize Brass
Guest Author - Chris Franchetti Michaels

The process of darkening metal to give it a more aged look is called oxidation, patination, or antiquing. Brass is probably the most popular metal for antiquing in jewelry making. Raw (untreated) brass findings and components, including beads, chain, filigree, and clasps, can be antiqued to create give any a design an old art nouveau or Victorian feel.

There are two basic approaches to antiquing brass at home. The more reliable method is to use a pre-formulated chemical (or chemicals) available through chemical supply companies and larger jewelry suppliers, like Rio Grande. A nontoxic and more cost-effective alternative, although a much less reliable one, is to use household white vinegar.

Pre-Cleaning

Whichever method you use, always wash your brass components completely before antiquing. You can use a mild solution of water and vinegar, mild hand or dish soap (like Dawn) diluted in water, or a mixture of ammonia, mild soap, and water. This is essential because any areas of dirt or oil on the brass will keep that area from darkening.

According to Tim McCreight in his book The Complete Metalsmith, you can confirm that brass is clean by pouring water over it. If the water sheets across the entire surface of the metal, rather than beading up, then the piece is clean. He also recommends wiping metal with alcohol just before antiquing.

Antiquing with Chemicals

The chemical ferric nitrate is often used to oxidize brass. To prepare the antiquing solution, dissolve 1/2 teaspoon ferric nitrate in one pint of distilled water. For best results, slightly heat the brass components that you plan to antique in a low-heat oven, and then either brush or spray the solution onto the components. Allow the solution to dry, and check your results. You can reapply the solution and allow it to dry repeatedly until you achieve the color you're looking for.

Another, more complicated, approach is to add 1 teaspoon of the chemical ferric chloride to the ferric nitrate solution. This is called the "Florentine" solution, and it creates a richer patina. Apply the solution as usual, and allow it to dry. When the color changes to light brown, you then need to rinse the brass with cool water and dry it using a piece of slightly-damp newspaper. Next, brush the surface of the component completely with 00 steel wool, and allow the brass to sit for at least 12 hours. You can repeat the entire process as many times as necessary to achieve your desired color.

Both of these methods could expose you to potentially toxic chemicals, so be sure to follow all safety precautions on the packaging and any additional instructions provided by your chemical supplier.

Antiquing with Vinegar

There are lots of approaches to antiquing with vinegar, and artists tend to experiment to discover their favorites. One is to simply use the same procedure you would use for ferric nitrate, substituting straight white vinegar for the ferric nitrate solution.

You can also try suspending the brass over an open container of vinegar so that the evaporated "fumes" of vinegar slowly adhere to the brass over time. For example, you can secure a piece of cheesecloth or nylon stocking over the top of a bowl of vinegar using a large rubber band, and then place the brass pieces on top. It's also a good idea to place a cover over the bowl, such as a container lid or an upside-down bucket.

Vinegar oxidation does work to some degree, but it is unlikely to produce a very rich, even, "gingerbread" finish on brass. If you're looking those results, I recommend using the chemical methods discussed above instead.

Protecting the Finish

After antiquing, you can allow your brass pieces to continue to age naturally, or you can temporarily seal the finish with a thin coat of beeswax or a paste wax. To apply bees wax, you may need to warm the brass component in a low-heat oven or with a hair dryer, and then rub the wax across the piece - being careful, of course, not to burn your fingers. Rub the beeswax smoothly over the entire piece using a clean, lint-free piece of cloth. Alternatively, you can use a prepared paste wax, like Renaissance Wax or Johnson's Wax, which is soft enough to apply without pre-heating.

[lantzn]

This one might be a good one to find in the library.

The Colouring, Bronzing and Patination of Metals
~ Richard Hughes, Michael Rowe
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0823007626/?ta ... hingcominc

The Complete Metalsmith: An Illustrated Handbook (Spiral-bound)
~ Tim McCreight
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0871922401/?ta ... hingcominc

[Texan Scott]

..sorta reminds me of those old "dull your knife" jokes...

Don't ask me why?

[lantzn]

Thanks for searching and sharing yor results, Lantz! Our library doesn't carry this one.

There are two basic approaches to antiquing brass at home. The more reliable method is to use a pre-formulated chemical (or chemicals) available through chemical supply companies and larger jewelry suppliers, like Rio Grande. A nontoxic and more cost-effective alternative, although a much less reliable one, is to use household white vinegar.

I checked out Rio Grande. They carry two products: Midas® Brass, Bronze & Copper Oxidizer (Red-brown to black) and Midas® Brass, Bronze & Copper Oxidizer (Light brown to black)

What do you think? "Light Brown to Black" or "Red Brown to Black?"

Michael

Looking at that picture of the buckle you like in the front, it looks more of a reddish-brown brass color to me.

[lantzn]

2 Antiqued brass buckles.

One reproduction and one WWII authentic;

[raider 57]

That's a nice vintage buckle you got there, lantzn. I love these old belts!
Here's a couple pics of my Dad's WW2 buckle. Still very functional but I've since had to add new webbing.

Note the backside is steel. Brass front only. Conserved for the War effort!

I'm not sure artificial aging will ever produce these colorations. I'll bet the brass alloys were quite different back then. I have a couple I bought new in the early 1980's and have worn alot! Almost thirty years? Their colors are still not like the "real" (1940's) old ones.
~raider 57

[generalFROSTY]

With those reference pictures, I bet I could get a buckle to look like that artificially.
A purist would want it legit, but if you're simply going for 'the look' then there is no reason why some painting and agin techniques wouln't work here.

[raider 57]

Thanks and very welcome Tundrarider.
I wanted to get the close-up pics out earlier but I had some trouble finding them deep on my photobucket album.
Too lazy to re-shoot!
Also since this pic, I gently straightened a couple of the tabs visible on the back view. You can see they are a bit "opened up" on this photo.
Good luck with your antiquing efforts. I will be watching this with great interest!
I'll try get a few comparision pics to the 80's buckles that I mentioned in my earlier post.
~raider 57

[lantzn]

2 Antiqued brass buckles. One reproduction and one WWII authentic;

Is that authentic buckle yours??? Have you been holding out on us??? That buckle is awesome, as well!

Michael

Yes I just bought that one off eBay in the past few days (eBay picture of it). I also bought another one this week with its web belt included from an online antique store. I'm going to buy some new web belts in both the common Indy colors to go with them. I'll post some pictures of both once I receive them.

[Indiana Joyce]

I just used fine grade sandpaper, and hit it randomly. Also dragged my keys lightly across it. The goal is randomness. This sounds like a no-brainer, but don't forget to tarnish up the metal clip at the end of the belt.

[generalFROSTY]

I just used fine grade sandpaper, and hit it randomly. Also dragged my keys lightly across it. The goal is randomness. This sounds like a no-brainer, but don't forget to tarnish up the metal clip at the end of the belt.

I agree that 'randomness' is the key to distressing something and make it look natural. I was random in distressing my Todd's jacket and it looks pretty darn good.
I don't know about anyone else, but anytime I see objects or clothing that is distressed, I pay close attention to how it looks; the colors, texture, level of 'decay' and so forth. I also have a photo album in my PC that I keep of distressed and weathered things, just as a reference when I am going for a specific and authentic look.

[rover smith]

Just picked this up on ebay for a VERY good price.

Original WWII web belt, the buckle is nicely worn without looking trashed.

[Mark Brody]

Forgive the low quality of this photo, but I was too lazy to break out the camera. These are two identical buckles from Todd. I decided to distress one, and let the other naturally distress (even if it never happens). I found that the protective finish the buckle has is pretty tough. You can sand it down and it will loose that mirror like shine, but it will still look like a brushed finish and will not patina unless...



You take the extra effort to sand all the way through the finish. It'll take some elbow grease, but once you get through the finish (and it's not too hard to tell when you do - you'll notice a change in the color) it will naturally patina in a matter of weeks by itself with a few grubby fingerprints and skin oil, or you can help it along by leaving it in salt water or some other corrosive substance. You can achieve the same effect as my buckle with nothing but sandpaper. I used really fine grit (2000 in the end) that I had left over from pouncing a hat. I didn't want the buckle scratched up (not that I'd mind if that happened naturally), I just wanted a real patina - not some fake painted on finish.

One word of caution: wear a mask when you do this. I think I might have inhaled some brass dust as I was working on this, and had trouble breathing for a few days afterward. Gloves would be a good call too.

[Digger4Glory]

Just picked this up on ebay for a VERY good price.

Original WWII web belt, the buckle is nicely worn without looking trashed.

Well done, nice find!

[rover smith]

I'm real happy with this buckle, the actual webbing is of great quality too, although its the wrong colour for any Jones getup. Soooo, I need to find some good webbing in the appropriate colours. I know Lantzn has another thread where he is posting his finds, if I come accross anything I'll post there.

These are two identical buckles from Todd

That looks nice Mark, and ofcourse its natural all the way once you get that protective layer off.

[Wade Egan]

In my mind, the look of Raider 57's vintage WWII belt is the 'most Indy' looking. It's basically brass patina caused by oxidation, moisture, and time. This may be giving away one of my secrets, but here is how I age both my brass and nickel hardware. Solid brass web belt buckles included. It's a lot easier than you think, and a couple guys have already touched on a similar technique using household chemicals. For guys like me who don't know a whole lot about, nor trust, mixing chemicals I can recommend purchasing a brass aging solution which is already mixed appropriately. Here's what I use:

http://houseofantiquehardware.com/s.nl; ... tegory=145

All you need is a scour pad from any super market, steel wool, a polishing cloth, and a small paint brush. First scratch up the intire buckle with the scour pad to get off any coating. Then work the buckle appropriately as you see fit using first the steel wool then the scour pad. You can alternate and vary the amount of 'scratch layers' as you go until you like the look. Then, using latex gloves, you can either brush the solution onto the buckle and let it sit (this is the slow and deliberate way, you'll need to do that several times to get the right patina), or go for gusto and drop the buckle into the solution and leave it in until the brass turns black. Then take the buckle out and let it sit over night. Spray it with water and wipe away the black oxidation until you like the look. If it needs more patina just repeat the aging solution step.

I do this for collar studs, belt buckles, fittings, etc. when I want an aged look. Hope it helps.

W.E.

[generalFROSTY]

Thanks for all that info Wade!
I never knew a product existed for deliberately aging metal...semms kinda obvious now that there would be.
Had I not already done it with accrylic paint I would def. try this out.
Maybe next belt....

[theinterchange]

don't look at this

[Texan Scott]

Here is a photo of one from Academy Sports, Magellin brand, that was pre-distressed. I found the other one at a little shop near Sao Paulo, BR, while on vacation. Kinda cool, I thought, and maybe all of $1.50.

[SankaraRaider]

I actually looked at this topic to find some info on aging the buckle on my
Todd's web belt, which I bought a long time ago but never really got around
to distress.

But when I saw those authentic WWII buckles, I knew vintage was the way to go.
Did a search on the bay and found this:



It's an authentic WWII belt, the buckle is solid brass and the patina on this
is just right for the look I wanted.
The whole look and feel of this buckle is just so different from the new ones,
not as flimsy if you will, it feels sturdy, it has a more smooth feel to it and the
detailing seems more ‘rounded’ in a way. The end tab of the belt has the same
great look, and it's quite harder to bend and swap than the new one.



The belt itself is some sort of elastic material, I just swapped it with the
brown web from Todds belt, and now have a great Raiders belt.
May need to do some distressing on the belt to get the complete worn look though.



The best thing is that I only paid $0.99 for the belt! - Thought it would be
more expensive to obtain one of these, but apparently it isn’t.
The shipping from the US was a bit more, but still I felt a bit ashamed to
get it this cheap, It’s just such an awesome piece,
but what can you do.

Kasper

[Texan Scott]

I knew of guys in the Army that would boil their new buckles in water, in order to remove the coating, then with the metal exposed, would shine the buckle themselves. Same process only opposite. Better to remove the coating on the newer buckles, then distress it. Then there is the easy way of just buying one already distressed, buckle and web belt for $5.

[Kt Templar]

One thing to take care of on the modern buckles. I put a couple outside to tarnish after heat treating them and the pin on both has started rusting. So there is obviously ferrous metal there.

[scot2525]

A photo of two Todd Coyle brass plated buckles purchased at the same time almost two years ago. I weathered the top buckle intentionally with steel wool and a scotchbrite pad. The bottom buckle has only natural weathering from occasional wear. The photo does not show alot of the "patina" the weathered buckle has taken on.

[scot2525]

Wow, the "weathered" buckle has darkened to a nice brown patina, very similar to an "original." Besides the steel wool and scotchbrite, did you do anything else to the buckle (aside from allowing time to pass?)

Thanks,

Michael

No I did not Tundrarider. No chemicals, no heat. In looking at it now I can also see a few spots that need the brass "knocked down" more and two areas I went a little to far on the scrubbing. The weathered buckle had been sitting in a chest drawer for over a year now until I took it for this photo.