Anyone interested in a PFC Bapty revolver?

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:48 pm

Here's a pic of the prototype.

What do you think?

Okay, here's the scoop. Early this year I convinced Tanaka Works in Japan to create an Indiana Jones gun replica. I sent them all the information they needed - resin casts, photos, drawings, you name it. This is a perfect copy, except for the British proof marks. Note that some of the parts are not blued yet. This is an assembled prototype just to test the function.

Any of you who have held one of Tanaka's revolver replicas know that they are the closest to the real thing that there is. They are beautiful in function and finish. The action is as smooth as a real revolver.

This is a plug fire cap (PFC) firing model - not an airsoft gun. You load up the cartidges with 7mm explosive caps and bang away. The caps are powerful and loud. You will get smoke and sparks. Perfect for playing around on the 4th of July! The retail price will be $199. The problem is, I've got to buy an enormous number (about $40,000 to start). I don't know how I'll do it, but I really want to bring this to you. Give me your opinions please.

TheExit148 · Post by **TheExit148** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:53 pm

Holy smokes my friend! Todd, that is AWESOME!

I would be interested, but I don't think that I can purchase one and bring it into Canada (shipping wise) I must say... best replica Bapty EVER!

Great job Todd

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:06 pm

Perfection at last...just when I have no money.

maboot38 · Post by **maboot38** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:16 pm

Wow, Todd. While it looks really cool, I'm not sure it is a good idea for you. Do you think you'll be able to sell more than 200 of these things, given the other offerings you already have? That would be what I would consider.

Just my two cents, since I currently am weighing offering a new product to customers as well (a bike frame for heavier guys), but am wondering if I'll be able to make back the production costs.

maboot38 · Post by **maboot38** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:38 pm

I think I have to agree with Michael. I've always wanted a WG replica, and I have a great one from Rook, but I would have bought one from you as well if you offered it. I was always surprised that you had the holster, but not the gun.

At any rate, I know it isn't really what you asked, but I think if you got the same deal on a WG replica, you'd have a better chance selling 200 of those than 200 of the S&W.

raider 57 · Post by **raider 57** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:49 pm

I'd most likely snap up one of the S&W's from you for $ 199. It's one of the few items, besides pants, that I've really wanted to upgrade.
WOW, 40 grand!! That IS rather a steep mountain to sit on.
Very sharp looking Repo however!

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:49 pm

I'd love one. Unfortunately, replicas as good as this are banned over here now.

best of luck with this. It's a beautiful item. At $199 I would have snapped one up.

jasonalun · Post by **jasonalun** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:16 pm

Wow, beautiful, Todd!

I'd buy one.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:34 pm

Thanks, everyone! I can't take all the credit, though. Tanaka does beautiful work.

I'm not done negotiating with the factory yet. Communication with them is a little difficult. It'll work out somehow.

The first production sample is on its way to me. I'll post picture when it gets here.

I think if you got the same deal on a WG replica, you'd have a better chance selling 200 of those than 200 of the S&W.

I started with the S&W because my S&W holsters outsell my Webley holsters 2:1. If this project is a success, I'll approach them about the Webley.

wu han · Post by **wu han** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:13 pm

Looks great. I will be all over this. (I'd be all over a webley too)

Luke Warmwater · Post by **Luke Warmwater** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:10 pm

Puppetboy wrote:I started with the S&W because my S&W holsters outsell my Webley holsters 2:1.

This is probably because there are plenty of S&W replicas around but precious few WG replicas.

Scott63 · Post by **Scott63** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:47 pm

Wow, that's a great copy. I'd buy one to replace the Tanaka S&W .38 replica I have now.

Scott

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:43 pm

WOW TODD! That looks great! Can I buy the prototype if you don't do the bulk order?

Solent MKIII · Post by **Solent MKIII** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:46 am

agent5 wrote:Perfection at last...just when I have no money.

Same wagon, my friend, same wagon.

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:18 am

Boy, I was rubbing my hands together (figuratively) until I read about the 40 grand part, ouch, anyone else that can make it for a smaller order? I guess you've probably already searched high and low. The $200 is a good price, but I feel for you with the $40,000. Sounds like you need a benefactor or actually an investor in this case.

ps I don't give a darn about the webley I think it's a goofy looking gun.

Indiana Jake · Post by **Indiana Jake** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:41 am

Todd,

While several of us can honestly say we would also like a WG revolver, there is a possibility that this gun might also appeal to historic re-enactors for their purposes. If the research is done and there actually is a customer base for WW1 or other re-enactors wanting this gun for their activities, this might be a good move - if properly advertised. If someone more knowledgeable in the historical use of the Webley WG would chime in, that would help.

Nice work on the S&W I might add.

Indiana Jake

.455/.476 · Post by **.455/.476** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:31 am

bigrex wrote:ps I don't give a darn about the webley I think it's a goofy looking gun.

BLASPHEMY!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:46 am

The Webley is now pretty much seen as the sidearm of choice for Indy and the Smith takes a back seat. I also don't care at all about the Webley even though I think it's a very interesting and unique gun. No, I'm all about Mr.Smith.

On a Webley sidenote, I noticed the character of Mouse, played by Don Cheadle in the film, "Devil In A Blue Dress" (one of my favorite period films), uses a Webley. The character is also a psychopathic killer, thankfully on the side of the hero in the film and he definitely uses it without hesitation. Nomatter where I go I'm always picking up even the most minute of Indy references. It may never end...

Dangerman009 · Post by **Dangerman009** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:06 am

That is one good looking replica. GOOD WORK! I have to side in with some of the others that I think the S&W is the better Indy gun.

Please don't shoot your Webleys at me!!

It's funny that I prefer the S&W seeing as how I'm going to be selling mine.

alphared6 · Post by **alphared6** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:27 am

Won't federal law require that you make the end of the barrel in a bright orange? I'd not drop 200 bucks on a replica with an alert orange barrel.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:38 am

I think (and I could be wrong) that you can just wrap orange tape around the end of the barrel instread and it would meet the requirements.

djd · Post by **djd** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:48 am

Of course anything that looks vaguely like a gun is now illegal in the UK- except, bizarrely, an actual deactivated gun.... They must work on the principal that if you're going to hold up a bank with a fake gun you should at least have to pay a few hundred pounds for the chance.

It's a lovely replica Todd but I'll have to make do with my now illegal S&W resin replica

alphared6 · Post by **alphared6** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:52 am

My understanding is that the orange tip must be integral to the "toy," not removable and made of a plastic to which paint will not adhere.

We have two AirSoft M-16's and an AK-47. The muzzle breaks are made of this orange plastic. We have primed and painted them but the paint just rubs off. And of course you can't cut the orange off without ruining the look of the "rifle."

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:58 am

A guy around here I used to be friends with ran an airsoft/paintball store and he used these plastic orange caps on all of them but they could be easily removed after purchase. Some he bought (usually the cheaper ones) came with orange parts but the high end ones looked real and needed the orange caps for sale.

alphared6 · Post by **alphared6** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:08 am

Yeah, the Govt got wise to people removing and repainting the muzzle breaks and fixed the law. Now you have to saw the orange part off. Which of course ruins the look of your "gun."

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:09 am

Dangerman009 wrote:That is one good looking replica. GOOD WORK! I have to side in with some of the others that I think the S&W is the better Indy gun. Please don't shoot your Webleys at me!!

It's funny that I prefer the S&W seeing as how I'm going to be selling mine.

I agree. I think the Smith IS THE indy gun. The Webley, IMO, is too big, bulky and cumbersome. The Smith is fast and more "cowboy" esque, which I thought was what the creators were going for.

DM, would like to know more about what you're selling.
mike

Indyzane · Post by **Indyzane** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:32 am

I buy one for sure Todd!

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:48 am

Yeah, the tip is supposed to be permanent and non-removable. But I don't know exactly how they define "permanent". Plastic caps can be removed, sanded off, etc. and paint can be stripped without damaging the plastic or metal. Plastic parts can be painted. There's nothing really permanent if you're determined enough to change it.

Of course, removing or painting the tips is strictly illegal, like speeding or failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign. Here in California, we can't talk on our cell phones or drive without a seat belt, either (I got a ticket for not wearing a seat belt!) It's also illegal to use trademarked logo (Colt, S&W, Ruger, etc), but we all know our favorite replicas use them.

What's my point? I don't know.

graal · Post by **graal** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:56 am

Great job Todd! I'd buy one.

Dragonlady Jones · Post by **Dragonlady Jones** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:19 pm

Oh yeah? One? Well, I'd buy two! No really...I'd buy two.

moviematt1989 · Post by **moviematt1989** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:55 pm

thats pretty sweet

moviematt1989 · Post by **moviematt1989** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:59 pm

wait...7mm caps? their made to look like 45.'s right?

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:22 pm

Matt,

I think you missed the part in my first post about loading the cartridges with 7mm caps. It comes with cartridges made of brass casing and aluminum bullets that you load and eject just like real. The caps go in the cartridges. I'm waiting to see how they go in.

To those of you who have asked about international shipment - as always, I will ship these wherever you want, but you assume the risk of having it confiscated. You should know your country's laws about these things and what the consequences may be.

Tanaka will offer these to their retailers worldwide. The idea was that I would be the USA guy, and that's where the $40,000 minimum order comes in. We're still hashing it out, but I think in the end, they'll be available through their normal network of dealers in the USA as well. They have a certain production number that they have to meet to make a profit (they've spent a LOT of time in R&D and making new parts, molds, metal dies, etc.). In reality, I can't move the quantity they need to sell. So, in summary, if it's easier to by from a dealer in Europe, Asia, etc. they can get it, too.

I just heard from a dealer in Virginia. He said the Feds raided his place and confiscated all the airsoft guns bearing trademarks - whether they were covered or not. Tanaka, Marui, etc. Wiped out. I hope that is an isolated incident. My impression is that most of the high-end replicas include the mfg's trademarks.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:07 pm

Quick link to show how PFC carts can look like.

http://www.modelguns-worldwide.com/images/sw357mg.jpg

Dangerman009 · Post by **Dangerman009** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:51 pm

These would make good theme park guns. Imagine them being used on the Jungle Cruise and the Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular.

RaiderZee · Post by **RaiderZee** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:09 am

WOW! Todd, that's the offering I've been looking for. PERFECT! I'm all in!

RaiderZee

Russian Raider · Post by **Russian Raider** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:23 am

Thats a great news! Definitly will pick one up. $\:D/$

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:12 am

I too love the look of this replica, I have a S&W 1917 allreardy (real one that is) but it would be nice to have one to put in my holster on my dispaly of gear. So in short I to am interested, I'll be watching this thread with intrest.

Croft

Nice work Tood, your amazing in your determination of SA gear.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:25 am

These would make good theme park guns. Imagine them being used on the Jungle Cruise and the Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular

Nah. Once they see how screen accurate it is they'll never use it.

FloatinJoe · Post by **FloatinJoe** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:54 am

Todd, this is beautiful, but one observation. It looks like a cross of the Bapty and the Stembridge revolvers. Unless I'm mistaken, the Stembridge had the rounded sights with the checkered grips, and the Bapty had the ramped sight with plain grips.

I might just have to get in line on this. I'll really have to think about it. My "holy grail" of Indy guns is still the Stembridge. I love the way that sight looks. I'm still waiting for someone to make a high-quality reproduction of it.

Mike

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:59 am

Here ya go, Mike.

http://www.indygear.com/igguns.html

FloatinJoe · Post by **FloatinJoe** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:24 am

Agent5, I stand corrected. I think at some point we had a picture up somewhere that had fan-owned version of the Bapty that had plain grips on it. I just got that stuck in my head. With that being the case, it has moved up on the list of things I want.

On the Stembridge note, is there anyone out there that is making repros of it?

Mike

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:29 am

The only guy still consistantly cranking those out is Artsee. His are really nice.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:29 am

I have wanted to replace my resin with a decent replica forever. So I'd be in on this as well. Do you know what the time frame of availability would be?

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:03 am

Yeah, this is really what I've been waiting for as well. I do like the other version better but you won't find me complaining. Once this is done I'm sure, just as with this one, it will just take some time and patience before we see the Stembridge done just as nicely.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:38 am

Just to update: things are still moving with Tanaka. They have softened on their $40,000 minimum order, and that is good. The final production sample was stuck in customs clearance due to missing paperwork. Tanaka straightened it out, and the gun is on its way here. It looks like we're still on track.

One important item maybe somebody can shed light on: One retailer/e-tailer told me that the feds raided his place and confiscated all of the airsoft guns that bore a US trademark (S&W, Colt, Ruger, etc.). Has anyone heard of this? Tanaka is freaking slightly because of this incident.

Bapty? I doubt the factory would invest in the tooling. I mean, they want to do it perfectly. The Bapty was a different caliber, had a different cylinder and barrel, different markings, etc. Maybe they'd do a conversion kit with replaceable sights and grips. Let's see how this model sells worldwide before moving to the next step. Let's hope for a big success so they're open to future projects.

The only thought I have is that the PFC version may not sell as well as an airsoft version. If they do another model they might make it an airsoft. That might be the time to suggest the convertible model.

Next, I'd like them to do the Webley and then the Blade Runner blaster.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:18 am

I was just dreaming...

If they ever did go with an airsoft version it should cost a little less as well, yeah?

One important item maybe somebody can shed light on: One retailer/e-tailer told me that the feds raided his place and confiscated all of the airsoft guns that bore a US trademark (S&W, Colt, Ruger, etc.). Has anyone heard of this? Tanaka is freaking slightly because of this incident.

An ex-friend of mine (Brian) owns this place near me. http://www.aggressivesportshop.com/
I used to take rides with him to the warehouse to pick up loads of airsoft guns and other stuff so he's the only person I know who may have some actual info on that. Give him a call if you want and tell him you're a friend of Jason who collects the Raiders stuff and linked you his number so you could ask him about it. Like Indy and Abner, we had a falling out several years ago but even though we don't talk we're cordial so I'm sure he'll talk to you about it. If he doesn't know maybe he'd be willing to make some calls and find some info out because as far as I know he's still selling these and his business could be effected as well so you'd think it would interest him.

Ranger36 · Post by **Ranger36** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:16 pm

Couple of questions for ya Todd (and I'm sorry if you already answered these and I missed it) :

1.) Will it be made of metal?
2.) Will it feel like a real gun (weight, etc.)?
3.) When you fire it, does it look like a real gun firing?

Thanks, I really hope this gets off the ground!

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:42 am

Jason,

I gave Brian a call and got a recording. I'll try later. Thanks for the contact. As far as price, I think the airsoft and PFC versions would be the same price. I said "I THINK". All I know is that they're priced the same as their other airsoft models.

Ranger36,

The guns are made of metal guts and a plastic exterior, except for the side plate, crane, ejector and ejector rod, hammer and trigger. The plastic parts are plated with metal, so it feels like the real thing. Tanaka is famous for their revolvers, and if you've ever held one, you know why.

No, it won't be as heavy as the solid steel revolver. I haven't fired one (yet) but there are plenty of videos on YouTube showing similar guns being fired. It looks fun.

Oh, it will get off the ground. The sample has cleared customs in San Francisco and is being delivered maybe Friday. They are sending me the production prototype for final "inspection". I'll be sure to post plenty of photos so you guys can help me inspect. I'm sure it will be flawless.

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:34 pm

I'd probably be in for one.

Mike