.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:06 pm

In any search you do regarding Pecards, you KNOW I'm an avid supporter and 'preacher' regarding Pecards products. I will continue to preach the word.....except, with the TN jackets, or the Wings LE (same leather).

Do NOT, repeat, do NOT use any leather conditioner on your jacket. Follow Tony's instructions to the letter. His leather is completely different than any I'VE come across, and they DO just get better with actual use, and NO application of Pecards (or any dressing)should be used.

So take it from a hard core Pecards user, DON'T do that to your already perfect looking jacket.

My TN is the OLY jacket I've ever owned that I have not put dressing on, and I have not regretted it.

Regards! Michaelson

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:08 pm

I'd say do what you have to do.
i don't know how dark your jacket looks in person, but to me in the photos it looks fine.

i know from talking to Tony when he says wear it in the rain that's what he means, exactly, not just get it wet, wash it etc.
His cow hides do seem to get darker slightly when worn in the rain and let dry naturally. Never apply heat.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:23 pm

Yep, go take a walk.

I have neither heard, nor experienced, shrinkage from walking in the rain....but no is suggesting you stand around in a frog strangler.

Regards! Michaelson

Brett · Post by **Brett** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:29 pm

Thats a GREAT LOOKING JACKET, probably the best looking one I've seen on any thread. I wouldn't use anything on it but my own sweat. LOL

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:02 pm

From the other camp, perhaps, but I did Pecard my CS from Tony (I've not done it to my LC or my Raiders 747, however). I've not regretted it. The leather darkened up some at first but has since returned to it's original shade. I'll Pecard my LC as all of that distressed leather scares me (as you were saying) and I'd like to have some protection on it. It might not need it (and, as you know, Tony says not to) but I've not noticed any ill effects from doing it. The leather darkens and then returns to its original hue over time.

Han Jones · Post by **Han Jones** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:07 pm

I agree with Crismans 100%. I have done it to 2 goats and 3 CS cow hide with no ill effects. My vintage goat and my Itialian cow I have not touched because I want to let my grandkids do it. Mind you I am 30 and my daughter is 3.

Louisiana Jones · Post by **Louisiana Jones** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:12 pm

Tundrarider wrote:I guess what I'm not hearing yet is what the "bad result" will be if I do apply Pecards. Will my jacket be "ruined" or perhaps negatively altered in some way that cannot be described?

I don't see how leather dressing would negatively alter the jacket...after all it's a leather jacket, right? I've owned many different leather jackets and used many different leather dressings and I've yet to experience any negative effects.

LJ

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:02 pm

Tundrarider wrote:Michaelson, you described Tony's leather as "completely different than any I've come across." That's a powerful statement, knowing the years of leather jacket ownership behind it. What aspect of this unique leather's quality makes it a bad candidate for a conditioner?
Thanks,

Michael

To be clear, I never said it would be a 'bad candidate' for conditioner. As has been posted above, it's an excellent candidate (and if those folks will recall, I'm the one who set UP the camp in the first place regarding gear care

)

I'm just saying that, looking at YOUR jacket, the whole 'wow' factor we're all expressing is the finish and work Tony put into it looking the way it looks now! I have heard through a couple sources that this leather is tanned differently than others, and actually gets better with wear....and for some reason, especially in wet weather. That's why it was produced and used by Bernie in CS, as they were in water almost the entire film.

So, as much as the jacket would benefit from a treatment, you'll lose the edge of that 'wow' factor we're all drooling over. It has been posted that even Tony considers this one a masterpiece. Why draw a crayon moustache on the Mona Lisa?

As an afterthought, have you given any consideration on the spray Pecards now offers described in this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=43727

Just a thought, and not necessarily a suggestion.

Regards! Michaelson

sallah4 · Post by **sallah4** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:52 pm

Tundrarider, that pose in the pic is classic. Great jacket by the way.
-Jake

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:08 pm

Tundaraider why not try a bit of the dressing on some of the inside facing at the back. There are areas of leather that will never show in normal day to day wear. See if you like what it does. There is a good chance that it will darken, that usually lightens up about 80% after a while but doesn't go right back to 100% the way it was before treatment.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:34 pm

Hey Mike.

one question,

can make a mark on the skin VERY easy? fingernail easy. and can you sorta make it dissappear again if you rubb alittle on the mark with your thumbs?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:36 pm

Ok TR, here's a before and after on some predistressed cowhide to scare you a bit!

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:09 pm

Kt Templar wrote:Tundaraider why not try a bit of the dressing on some of the inside facing at the back. There are areas of leather that will never show in normal day to day wear. See if you like what it does. There is a good chance that it will darken, that usually lightens up about 80% after a while but doesn't go right back to 100% the way it was before treatment.

That's very good advice, KT.

I tell you what, Michael. I don't care to be your guinea pig if you don't mind waiting. I'm going to put some Pecards on my LC at some point in the near future. I think since we're dealing with the same leather (dark CS cowhide, right?) and distressing methods, you can see what the effects are right off the bat and even over time if you want to wait that long.

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:55 pm

I'm certainly used to looking like idiot, so no problem there.

I'm not terribly worried about it as I have already put Pecards on the lighter CS leather. The leather darkened and then returned to it's normal shade. I wonder if the distressed areas of my LC might stay a bit darker, but that would be a look I wouldn't mind. Plus I really want something on that naked leather.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:12 pm

Sorry to fall off radar. I've been offline, and am just sticking my head in the door before 'crashing' for the night.

ALWAYS happy to talk shop with you, Tundra...anytime....anywhere.

Take KT's photos as gospel. That's what your jacket will look like with a treatment of Pecards. Buffed out, it's just shiner. It will slowly fade over time, but that's pretty much how it will hold for a time. It will never look like exactly how your jacket looks like now.

The point Holt was making was if you can hardly mark it with your fingernail, it's not all that dry. Really dry leather is at the point you can almost write your name in the leather with your fingernail....and with very little pressure.

Like I said before, the TN leather is a different breed. Think long and hard before you proceed.

Either way, once you do make your decision, just go with it and be satisfied you did the right thing, as YOU are the only one who has to be happy with your jacket! Don't ever second guess your decision once made. Just enjoy, and never look back over your shoulder should you go with a Pecards application.

If you don't apply, you still have that choice later. Either way you go will be right....

HIGH regards! Michaelson

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:09 pm

Michaelson wrote:Take KT's photos as gospel. That's what your jacket will look like with a treatment of Pecards.

Sorry M but I have to say otherwise in relation to KT's jacket.

I have the USW CE made from the same cowhide Nowak used on the CS jacket and a little over a month ago I applied Pecards Dark brown to it, to darken it up. Here's the result.

Please keep in mind I did not apply it like a coat of shellac, but rather very lightly tapped it onto the jacket by finger tip. Then rubbed it in, an wiped it off with a dry rag. This darkend the jacket as a whole by 4 or 5 shades. It did have a slight shine to it, and I do mean slight but after a day or two it went away and stayed dark.

Hope this helps out.

-Erin

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:45 pm

No problem, Erin! Everyone has their own experiences.

In the case of leather like the one shown on your jacket, if I were going for a dark coat, I use heavy application of Pecards, allowing each coat to soak in overnight. For jackets like these, sometimes it can take a couple days to do the job, as I 'slather' product on by hand on the leather, then hang overnight. I then check for soak in and color change the next morning, and if it compltely soaked in overnight, I hit it again until the leather no longer absorbs the Pecards. Once done, I then buff it to a soft glow. If there's still a 'wet spot', I liquify the Pecards with a warm hair dryer, THEN buff it into the surface, wiping off all excess.

Yes, they do get lighter in color over time, but when applied my way, it takes a LONG time for it to go back the way it was. The first person I saw do this was _ to a Wested pre-distressed cowhide. I followed up by trying it on an 'antique cowhide' Wings, and achieved the same results. When the color fades, it starts shifting to the prettiest mahogony color you ever saw!

I ONLY did this to a jacket that I planned on wearing in the harshest and wettest situations....which has BEEN a while since I started wearing goatskin jackets and moved to Tennessee.

The light tapping application you describe will indeed keep your jacket going back to its original color in very short order.

I was also using standard Pecards leather dressing at the time. Other type product and application procedures can and do bring about different results, as shown above with Erin's jacket.

Regards! Michaelson

Treadwell · Post by **Treadwell** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:28 pm

I took the plunge myself. Not with Pecards, though, since there isn't any available locally. I used Lexol.

Hard to see a difference due to lighting variance, but here are some before pics:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/T ... before.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/T ... before.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/T ... before.jpg

("After" it's more broken in as well, so it doesn't look as crisp as in the Before pics.)

I did it because the "dryness" or "fuzziness" didn't appeal to me. Not that there was anything "wrong" with it, but I'm a tactile person and kinda funny about how things feel to the touch.

Tundrarider, you could experiment by treating the inside of a pocket flap or the inner facings...something not normally visible, and see if what you think.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:41 pm

Lexol. GREAT stuff. What we used before we 'found' Pecards.

Water based, but still, GREAT stuff!

NICE looking job!

HIGH regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:13 pm

Tundrarider wrote:Same here, Mark! (I'd like to call you Mark, if you don't mind. ) Thanks again, for the continued layering of information. Michael

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:30 pm

TR that's how mine looked at first after a few days it lightened up. It's still not near as light as I was new, so I'm pleased with th results. So, if I were you I'd wait a week then judge whether or not you want to go any further. Good luck!

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:06 pm

Tundrarider wrote:(Although every time I look at it I feel eager to continue. )

I know... like I said it took me a few days. The initial start scared the $#!* out of me... but it was worth it in the end.

-Erin

Post by **Mike** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:46 am

Michaelson wrote:Lexol. GREAT stuff. What we used before we 'found' Pecards.

What I use on my goalie pads. I recently used it to try and clean up the truck seats from the kids and the smell took me back to the hockey shop (one of my first jobs).

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:52 am

dont you just love it when that nostalgic timetravel happens

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:50 am

Mike wrote:
Michaelson wrote:Lexol. GREAT stuff. What we used before we 'found' Pecards.
What I use on my goalie pads. I recently used it to try and clean up the truck seats from the kids and the smell took me back to the hockey shop (one of my first jobs).

Makes sense. It was originally created to use on leather car seats and ONLY available in auto parts stores.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:03 am

Michaelson wrote:Makes sense. It was originally created to use on leather car seats and ONLY available in auto parts stores.

Regards! Michaelson

Well, I guess Picards is interchangeable also. I used their shoe oil on my leather recliners foot rest after much abuse. It made it look and feel brand new again!!!

hmmm... shoe oil..... foot rest.... maybe there is a connection?

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:15 am

WELLLL, not really.

Standard Pecards is beeswax in a pH balanced petroleum base.

Pecards boot oil is, well, pH balanced refined oil. No beeswax.

Close, but no real cigar.

Lexol, on the other hand, is almost a one to one comparison to Pecards motorcycle leather lotion....water based products.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:22 pm

And I thought I had found the Rosetta Stone of leather treatments...

Well, at least it worked on my recliner.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:28 am

Hey, if YOU'RE happy, that's all that matters!

Regards! Michaelson

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:32 pm

THAT looks great

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:45 pm

Dear Lord, that looks great TR!!!!

The weathered areas of your jacket still hold that distressed look but, it just looks sooo much better.

I was worried when I did mine but I'm glad I went through with it all the way.

How long did it take you? Did you wipe it away like I suggested because it sure doesn't look slathered on? You did a good happy medium in my book.

1 note... that shine will all be gone in about a week with this leather. Which will make it look all the more better!!!

-Erin

djd · Post by **djd** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:40 am

That's a nice look Michael. Will be interested to see it again in a week or so.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:45 am

Good stuff. I wish my Wested CS would darken and shine up like that after a good coating of Pecards. I've applied 4 or 5 coats to the jacket since I got it, and it always fades back to the original soft/dry leather texture.

hoose55 · Post by **hoose55** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:45 am

Micheal, I'm glad you're happy with the result! I don't blame you, it looks incredible! I probably won't but. . . I wonder how the Nowak "Happy Cow" would react to Pecards? RC and I have discussed this, and like I said I probably won't, but your jacket looks so great after that coating!
Enjoy!
J-

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:27 am

Tundrarider wrote: A casual observer might have described the method as "slathering!"
Michael

Nothing 'casual' about it. That's what it's called.

Thoughts and prayers going out for your 'sweetie' too!

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:41 am

It looks great, but for me (not to be a 'wet blanket'), it now looks just like any other treated 'pre-distressed' leather jacket I've seen, or personally owned. With proper application, they all take on those highlights, or at least mine have. Well done on your first try!

Not saying that it's a bad thing either, as I love the mahagony look....but your jacket started out looking like it just came off an adventure. It now looks, different. Beautiful, but different than before. A different 'wow' factor now exists, but one I've experienced before and on many other occasions.

But, that said, YOU have to be the one that's happy with the results. If you're happy, I'M happy. It's your jacket. YOU make it the way YOU want. In the long run you're the one who will live with it, so make it your own!

You application of Pecards did nothing but help rehydrate the leather in the long run, and that's always a good thing.

Regards! Michaelson

jasonalun · Post by **jasonalun** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:24 pm

Tundrarider wrote:You know, one thing I realized about this jacket was that Tony had altered the overall fit (at my request) dramatically, which considerably changed the "look" of the jacket when being worn. When this alteration was coupled with the very heavy distressing, the jacket looked less like an Indy jacket and more like a 'rough and tumble' jacket that could have been worn by any cowboy or drover.

By bringing the color and finish closer in line with the image most people have in their mind's eye of the Indy's jacket, MY jacket suddenly started screaming INDY to me as soon as I completed the application. The distressing is still VERY evident and appears so in real life.

That's almost exactly what I was thinking when I first saw your first jacket pics, Tundrarider. I thought, "lovely jacket, looks terrific on you, great action shots!" but it wasn't quite exactly "Indy." Like you so accurately put it, it looked like a "jacket that could have been worn by any cowboy or drover." NOW, it looks Indy without a doubt! You're making it real hard to resist getting one of those myself, now! Great job and I'm glad you took the plunge.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:32 pm

This is what the original jacket finish reminded me of:

http://img32.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leonard1.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leonard2.jpg

I've seen a lot of 'attempts' to re-create this look, but none achieved it like your original finish did.

JMO, though.

Your finished product looks VERY nice, regardless!

Regards! Michaelson

DeWayne · Post by **DeWayne** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:16 am

I'm late to the party as usual, but wanted to say how much better I think it looks. There's plenty of times, especially in "Raiders" and "ToD" where the jacket color almost looks like it could be a really beat-up black.

Looking forward to some new full-gear shots from you. I think the jacket's darker color will compliment the color of the pants and shirt much better now, as there's more contrast. It will look even more "Indy" than before. If I can request it, I think some "in the shadows" shots would be really interesting to see.

Again, the jacket looks great!

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:28 am

Wow, that jacket really took on a life of its own, didn't it? Certainly looks unique, and very cool in a different way! Do post some pictures once it mellows out... If it mellows out!

DeWayne · Post by **DeWayne** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:20 pm

Thank you.

Yeah, that's the kind of pic I'm talking about. I think with the darker color it will be interesting to see how it compares. I'm sure a mix of shadows and direct light would be interesing as well. With the contrast, it will make the darker parts of the jacket look REALLY dark.

Gringo · Post by **Gringo** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:23 pm

Michael, that looks fantastic! I fell in love with your jacket when I saw your first pics. I never thought it could look better. You better keep looking over your shoulder, Tonys coming!. Just kidding, great job. Take care.

Billy

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:01 pm

Michaelson wrote:It looks great, but for me (not to be a 'wet blanket'), it now looks just like any other treated 'pre-distressed' leather jacket I've seen, or personally owned. With proper application, they all take on those highlights, or at least mine have. Well done on your first try!

Not saying that it's a bad thing either, as I love the mahagony look....but your jacket started out looking like it just came off an adventure. It now looks, different. Beautiful, but different than before. A different 'wow' factor now exists, but one I've experienced before and on many other occasions.

But, that said, YOU have to be the one that's happy with the results. If you're happy, I'M happy. It's your jacket. YOU make it the way YOU want. In the long run you're the one who will live with it, so make it your own!

You application of Pecards did nothing but help rehydrate the leather in the long run, and that's always a good thing.

Regards! Michaelson

You know, I have to agree with this. Personally I liked the look of the jacket before the Pecards. It looked more like a naturally used jacket. What I see in the photos is an evened out finish, even the distressed areas look like they've taken on the same even sheen, as I read what you say, as if it was a tannery produced distressed hide. Maybe that effect is temporary.

Don't get me wrong, it is still a wonderful jacket and obviously very much 'Michael'. I don't think anyone else could wear that particular jacket and have it look 'right'. The jacket was made for him and is him.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:35 am

I'm really impressed with those for timer shots!

What is important Michael is that YOU like the jacket with the treatment. As I said that jacket is without doubt 'yours' and I really don't think anyone else could wear it as well.

Gringo · Post by **Gringo** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:37 pm

Hey Michael, great shots. I like the shadows. I see the distressed look still, but not as heavy(Better, more LC in my opinion). My girl is looking over my shoulder as I write, she thinks its hot!!!(down girl, down).

Cheers Mate.
Billy

P.S. I think you nailed the look you wanted!!

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:53 pm

TR it looks AWESOME!!!!

Isn't it amazing what a few weeks will do?

-Erin

DeWayne · Post by **DeWayne** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:16 am

Great pics! Especially for using a timer (believe me I know what that's like, that's how all my recent pics were done

) The jacket looks great like this, imo.

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:46 am

Tundra, when you get a chance please do similar pose as in first pic in thread before treatment and similar light for side by side comparison........it just looks 'different' now....original just had that 'dusty, just back from adventure' look..........should get closer to original look as time goes by......still a very cool looking jacket

rover smith · Post by **rover smith** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:09 am

Just thought I'd add to what most other folks are saying about how much better the jacket looks after the treatment, well done. You pull off the look amazingly well too

what pecards product did you use? Was it the leather dressing?

Scott

djd · Post by **djd** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:39 am

I think your jacket looked great before and after mate