Was the hat worn under the Tannis turban?

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:15 am

I don't think it's been discussed or debated much. I think the hat (or a hat) was worn under Ford's turban at the Tannis diggs. His turban has much, much more volume than any other digger's turban. ... On the top of the Well of Souls he seems to pull the hat out of a pile of light windblown fabric, I take to be the turban. It doesn't look like it's in his bag when he's wearing the turban. He HAD to have had it under the turban? If it was the actual hat, would this have distressed it greatly, and altered it's shape, pushing the crown down over the ribbon muffin top style? It seems it would have steamed the hat somewhat, being wrapped like a baked potato in foil in an oven, as it got up to 120. Is this the proper, AUTHENTIC way to get the SOC look?

... Has anyone ever posted a pic of themself doing the Tannis Digger Indy look, with their hat wrapped under a turban? If not, maybe now's the time.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:47 am

Many will disagree, but I felt that was what he did when watching it all those years ago, probably a bit of a childish fantasy!

Local Land Surveyor · Post by **Local Land Surveyor** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:03 am

3thou$,
You brought back a memory I had the very day I saw the movie back in '81. I had the notion then that Indy was wearing his hat under the turbin. I remember thinking "Indy's turbin sure is big." It just made since that along the tradition "the hero's hat never comes off" that Indy kept his hat on under his turbin. It is possible the hat could have been in his bag, but I like thinking that it was under his turbin.

LLS

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:13 am

If you want to think of it in terms of reality Indy would have just given his stuff to one of the porters/diggers to carry it. That's part of what he was paying them for.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:49 am

Sounds like the Mad Magazine cartoon version they did of Raiders, doesn't it? They DID have his hat wrapped up in the turban as I recall.

Regards! Michaelson

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:17 am

agent5 wrote:If you want to think of it in terms of reality Indy would have just given his stuff to one of the porters/diggers to carry it. That's part of what he was paying them for.

No one is carying anything but tools, and that's the lot of 'em. So how does the hat get on top of the Map Room? Compare turban sizes. ..... Indy reminds me of a bee keeper

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:48 am

This reminds me a little of an interview I once saw between pitchman Steve Bryant and Walter Koenig, who played Chekov on STAR TREK. Koenig was appearing on the QVC shopping network to help them promote STAR TREK merchandise.

Bryant, who is a big STAR TREK fan, asked Koenig why the Klingons in the original series looked so different from those in the later films. Were there 2 different Klingon races? Did some Klingons have plastic surgery performed on them so they could infiltrate and spy on the Federation?

Koenig said, "We had a bigger effects budget when we made the movies, that's all." But Bryant persisted and kept asking him if he had any theories to offer; why did the Klingons look so different in the original series?

Finally, Koenig just looked at him as if he was nuts and said, "Because it wasn't REAL-- it was just a TV SHOW."

Koenig obviously didn't understand or didn't have much patience with the mindset that was a way of life for a lot of his fans.

Jack.

][ndy · Post by **][ndy** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:45 am

3thoubucks wrote:
agent5 wrote:If you want to think of it in terms of reality Indy would have just given his stuff to one of the porters/diggers to carry it. That's part of what he was paying them for.
No one is carying anything but tools, and that's the lot of 'em. So how does the hat get on top of the Map Room? Compare turban sizes. ..... Indy reminds me of a bee keeper

Yesterday I rewatched Raiders and honestly, there is no way, that the hat is under that turban. It just wouldn't fit under it and the way, we can see Indy's forehead almost up to his hairline indicates, that there is not enough room for his hat.
Of course, his turban is bigger, and it also has this sheets to cover his face, but that is just logical, because everyone would have noticed, that he is no digger, but an caucasian man.

Btw. Where would Indy hide his jacket? I bet it is not under his clothes either. He may be wering the shirt and the pants (and his bag of course), but I think, thats just it.

Local Land Surveyor · Post by **Local Land Surveyor** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:19 am

Not necessarily wearing it, but a good place to stash it. Indy does wear the coolest looking turban, though. Next to Sallah's.
Hey, I misspelled turban earlier. I wrote turbin.

That is one letter short of turbine. Wouldn't want my hat, nor head in that.

LLS

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:20 am

Finally, Koenig just looked at him as if he was nuts and said, "Because it wasn't REAL-- it was just a TV SHOW."

I saw quite the same thing at a SW convention. This guy had the opportunity to ask Hayden Christiansen one question which turned out to be, "What is it like to be a Jedi?"
Christiansen smiled and said, "I wouldn't know because I'm just an actor playing one."
I remember thinking to myself, 'What and idiot!'. The one time you can ask a question of this guy and instead you made an arse out of yourself.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:28 am

Folks get excited at conventions, '5'.

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:29 am

_ wrote: Bugs Bunny doesn't really talk or dig tunnels around the world. Wiley Coyote doesn't really carry Acme canons in his fur..

WHAT?! It isn't true! You're lying! LALALALALALALALALALALAA!!! I can't hear you!!!

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:32 am

agent5 wrote:
Finally, Koenig just looked at him as if he was nuts and said, "Because it wasn't REAL-- it was just a TV SHOW."
Not only at conventions, Michaelson. I saw quite the same thing at a SW convention. This guy had the opportunity to ask Hayden Christiansen one question which was, "What is it like to be a Jedi?"
Christiansen smiled and said, "I wouldn't know because I'm just an actor playing one."
I remember thinking to myself, 'What and idiot!'. The one time you can ask a question of this guy and instead you made an arse out of yourself.

This goes way back and reveals my age, but actor Mike Connors said a man once approached him and asked, "Aren't you that guy who died...?"

Connors responded, "You mean David Janssen?"

The man said, "Yeah! I told my wife that's who it was!"

And he walked away.

Jack

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:34 am

Now THAT'S a bit disturbing....

Regards! Michaelson

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:43 am

Michaelson wrote:Now THAT'S a bit disturbing....

Regards! Michaelson

Yes, there are some otherwise normal people who just can't seem to separate fantasy from the real world when it comes to celebrities.

I think what happened in that case was that the guy thought it was Janssen, his wife told him it couldn't be because Janssen was dead, and when he approached Connors he just blurted that out withought too much forethought. And Connors guessed he was thginking of Janssen because he frequently got mistaken for him.

Jack

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:47 am

Yeah, and it took 4 work crews and 5 dumpsters to clear out the wreckage.

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:56 am

_ wrote: LOL! This happens everytime I take the shortcut through the psych ward. Last time it was the Bantu Wind...

The twins miss your visits, _.

Indiana Green · Post by **Indiana Green** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:30 am

This whole thing reminds me of when Ford was on Conan O'Brian. They had their Trivia Expert ask HF a long winded question about the color of the fall on his whip, and how it changed between films, etc. to which, Ford blankly stared and then replied "Who gives a #&@$?!". I cracked up forever about that. What's more, Conan asked HF if he ever kept any of his gear and he said quite sarcastically, "I don't need that %&$#, I'm RICH!"

So it seems, much to the dismay of die-hard movie fans and prop fans, most celebrities care very little for the minutia of their movie worlds.

Oh, and just to stay on topic:

Real world: Probably no reason for the prop/costume dept or DNL to jam the hat into a turban unless the continuity folks said "WAIT! This is gonna be a plot hole! where does Indy's hat go??"

Movie world: It would seem to me that Sallah, the guy who most likely wrapped the turban, would've had a rough time wrapping it around a hat with a 5+ inch crown and a 2.5+ inch brim. Plus, I'm sure, as stated before, one of the diggers may have had a sack or something with Indy's junk in it. But then again, who knows.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

all of that was a joke man.

he has lots of original stuff in his closet.

Indiana Green · Post by **Indiana Green** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:40 am

If that's the case, then we're all raiding (pun intended) HF's house 'Fanboys' style to retrieve the Original Raiders gear. C'mon guys, let's go rent a van!

TO HOLLYWOOD!!!

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:18 am

Okay folks, I know I helped derail it, but let's get this one back on the rails now.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:03 am

sigh.

"Maintenance, clean up on aisle 6.....again."

Regards! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:23 am

I don't know that I'm trying to take a position, so much as just trying to look at it from the other side of the fence. Hollywood's goal, I think, is to leave unforgetable, lasting impressions in your mind, as they used to say, "moving pictures". You walk in, the lights go down, and at that point, its fairly obvious where the center of attention is...on someone's mug that is blown up 2 stories tall. Add to that, a hip character, pre-written, cool with the lines, always has the right things to say, accompanied by well versed music at critical junctures in the story line, fanciful props, always manages to outwit and outbrawn his opposition, get the girl and take the prize, and as a character has said before..."I just make this LOOK GOOD!" Holleywood, sometimes is VERY successful at creating unforgettable 'moving pictures', but mostly, they are fairly 'ok' at it, average, or sub-par. Depends on alot of things.

Publicity mogels and media alike have also helped to further inflate the public's perception. Some have said, that since American's do not have any royalty, then the media has done what it could to create them? Icons? Indeed, movie stars and other public figures have been chased for a long time. What is smoke and mirrors to some can unfortunately be obsessive/compulsive to others. Doesn't make it right...just means it happens, many times to an unfortunate outcome, sometimes fatal.

Human nature is what it is, but some fans might work a fairly routine job, nothing to interesting and exciting, and occasionally look up at that silver screen that is larger than life, and view an interesting character, see someone that that perceive to live a more interesting life than themselves. It's escapism in all its 'glory'. There is a star to be born and another unfortunate accident just waiting to happen just around the next corner.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:20 pm

Ok....so, was that a vote 'for' or 'against' the 'hat under the turban' question?

Regards! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:35 pm

I would say, we need something of substance, some gray matter under the turban!

...in general, that is. ha!

Seriously, with a very low profile forehead, I'd have to say "No" to the hat disguise.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:45 pm

I'd also say that wearing a hat under a turban would look suspicious, and since Indy wanted to go unnoticed, he'd nix the hat under it.

Mighty_Draw · Post by **Mighty_Draw** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:45 pm

There is probably an extremely simple reason to why Indy's turban looks different and or larger: You need to be able to distinguish him from all the other robed and turban wearing men in the scenes he isn't in the foreground.....

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:51 pm

I vote "no" on the turban issue, and I agree with _'s summation-- it's OK to be a fan, as long as you can keep your perspective and not get swept away in some fantasy world.

By the way, I spoke to Moses-- he says God is still waiting for Lucasfilm to return the Ark they borrowed.

Jack

raider 57 · Post by **raider 57** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:34 pm

No. I can't see how an entire fedora is under there.

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:01 pm

No hat under the turban.

There's a silhouette shot of Indy standing on top of the mound putting his hat back on....I always interpreted that as his "costume" change.

Where he kept the hat in the interim is another question....

Indiana Dymond · Post by **Indiana Dymond** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:10 pm

What about the large wooden crate Indy and Sallah packed the Ark into? The diggers must have carried that in to the well of souls site(out of shot).That would have been more than big enough to hide the hat,jacket,gunbelt and all of Indys other gear in.

ID

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:35 pm

Don't we see Indy pulling his hat out from his satchel? I believe that was discussed a while back.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:13 pm

yep. somehting like that. he bends over and picks up his hat.

Dangerman009 · Post by **Dangerman009** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:25 pm

No hat under the turban.

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:41 pm

No hat, but lots of brains in there.

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:07 pm

In terms of real life, I don't think they would have put a hat on under the turban. It would have been unnecessarily hot and uncomfortable for Ford and what would be the reason to do so?

In terms of the movie, I don't think Indy would have worn it either as it might have been noticeable and the last thing he wanted was to draw attention. I'd say that his jacket and hat was with one of the workers.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:02 pm

Hey, Indy! Nice crown you have on that turbin!

Is it bashed at 4 1/2 or 4 3/4? A certain group of fans will want to know these details in the future.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:28 pm

Was the turban turned?

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:41 pm

Is this seriously still a conversation?

I actually think that the turban covered the hat but that was a little too distracting, so they put a giant size hat over the turban over the hat to cover the awkward turban. Then after GL and SS looked at this for a while, they decided the oversized hat was just silly so they covered that with another turban. Thats just a theory that I have.

Travis

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:33 am

I tried to wrap my fedora on my head with a bed sheet. I thought I could wrap it up tight like a ball, but you get CORNERS in the brim, so you can't wrap it very tight. .. Look at this side view. There seems to be a STRUCTURE in back, that the fabric is draped over. I think it's the brim.

This shot looks like the "..if only you spoke Hovitos! ..My, you have a lot of spider webs on your fedora, my friend!... hat.

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:43 am

Yeah, it's laying off the big roll of it that's wrapped around his head.

I can think of no reason why the hat would be under the fedora. The shot of him putting the hat back on in the film should basically make the question moot.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:53 am

Indiana Dymond wrote:What about the large wooden crate Indy and Sallah packed the Ark into? The diggers must have carried that in to the well of souls site(out of shot).That would have been more than big enough to hide the hat,jacket,gunbelt and all of Indys other gear in.

ID

This is a good point I hadn't thought of. Why didn't they bring it to begin with? Because it would be detected in daylight, it wasn't brought untill after dark, in secret. Indy had his hat back on before dark.

binkmeisterRick wrote:I'd also say that wearing a hat under a turban would look suspicious, and since Indy wanted to go unnoticed, he'd nix the hat under it.

Indy wasn't being very carefull. His Aldens and wool slacks were visible. He could have hidden his bag under his robes but didn't. If he didn't want his turban to look suspicious, why is he wearing one three times bigger than anyone elses?

Maybe the hat under the turban was a gag, like Sallah squeezing between Belloch and Dietrich on the way to the Map Room.

indy89 wrote:Don't we see Indy pulling his hat out from his satchel? I believe that was discussed a while back.

I took another look. The satchel may be involved, perhaps just weighting the hat down so it doesn't blow away, but as I said, It's obvious the hat is not in the satchel as indy is walking to the Map Room.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:59 am

Perhaps he had it rolled up, and stashed inside his bed sheet he was wearing, or rolled up and tied to his leg. I can think of quite a few places to stash a rollled up soft felt hat. Fedora

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:26 am

The turban looks that way because it's in two parts. There is an inner-turban, much like the one Sallah wears, and then there is another, separate wrap which is tucked in and goes around the inner-turban. It took me a while but I figured it out and there is no hat under mine - just a lot of turban material.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:52 pm

With that picture agent5, I'm ready to throw in the sheet/towel. I still think the hat is under the turban. Fantastic looking costume!

The main point of this exercise was how this crease just above the ribbon on both sides developed, and the SOC look in general. Mashing the crown down over the top of the ribbon for hours in high temps with a turban would probably do it.

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:37 pm

Fedora wrote:Perhaps he had it rolled up, and stashed inside his bed sheet he was wearing, or rolled up and tied to his leg. I can think of quite a few places to stash a rollled up soft felt hat. Fedora

Maybe he had it stashed someplace that would impress Marion.

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:19 pm

crismans wrote:
Fedora wrote:Perhaps he had it rolled up, and stashed inside his bed sheet he was wearing, or rolled up and tied to his leg. I can think of quite a few places to stash a rollled up soft felt hat. Fedora
Maybe he had it stashed someplace that would impress Marion.

Shades of Spinal Tap and cucumbers!

Travis

WinstonWolf359 · Post by **WinstonWolf359** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:23 am

I think Agent5's turban sans hat is pretty compelling, but does anyone else care to post a pic of themselves wearing a hat AND turban that matches what we see in the film as a counter proposal?

Personally, I think if Spielberg would have asked Harrison Ford to wear the hat AND a turban in the Tunisian heat Indy's fedora would have ended up somewhere a lot more uncomfortable than in the archives, if ya catch my drift...

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:46 am

I said I was "ready" to throw in the towel ... I haven't thrown it in yet.

The rear view of agent5's turban looks like it's missing a couple inches of protrusion. I'd say its one of those brim corners I mentioned that's kicking out the back of Indy's turban.

I have long considered the hat might even be stuffed behind his head to get so much volume in the back of his turban.

WinstonWolf359 · Post by **WinstonWolf359** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:54 am

So can you replicate that look from the screen caps using an actual head, hat, and turban or not? I'm genuinely interested in seeing this become more than just theory, conjecture, and screen caps.