pants... "'sigh"

Greatdane · Post by **Greatdane** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:56 pm

How do you guys keep track of this?

I've more or less reached the step of where I need to order a pair of pants, but which pair? Magnoli? in which case is it either Dark Khaki or Golden Rod? or perhaps a pair of Wested, but they aren't as SA as Magnoli's?

I keep looking through pictures, but it's like sometimes the color fits and sometimes it doesn't. Making it extremely difficult to decide what color to go with.

What is the best way to approach this, is it though simple trial and error? in which case I would end up owning numerous pants.

alphared6 · Post by **alphared6** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:12 pm

I've not found a pair I like. The pants were WWII "pinks" which were made out of wool "elastique" and were a pinkish gray color. I haven't seen a replica I like yet.

Mike

TheExit148 · Post by **TheExit148** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:19 pm

I'm with you alphared6, there isn't many pants out there replica wise that look right in colour. I managed to find a pair of real WWII Pinks and I think that they are spot on in colour to the Raiders pants, easily. I just posted in the scrap book some pics in gear from Toronto Fan expo, so you can see the colour. The pinks don't have pleats though (which I prefer) and if you're a real stickler for pants details, they don't have the proper belt loops, and the pocket flaps aren't exact (mine come pretty close actually though). If you can score a pair for cheap (I paid $20 on ebay) they are totally worth it. The Indy pants were created based on these pants so they are pretty close.

alphared6 · Post by **alphared6** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:21 pm

In WWII, as now, officers purchased their own uniforms. There was considerable more lee way in pattern and color back then as compared to today. An officer could opt for pleated pants if he so desired. We have several various styles and shades of "pink" in the museum's collection.

Mike

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:19 pm

Has anyone here bought these from the Netherlands?

"We have had the heavy weight 100% wool, Officers' 'elastique' fabric (alternatively known as 'Cavalry Twill' to many) made to the exact wartime spec, which is just superb. The average weight per pair is 2lb. The drape, handle and colour of this cloth is indistinguishable from the original."
http://www.tattersallexclusives.com/products/3

or how about these guys? They sale on eBay.
http://www.nchsinc.com/NCHSHome.html

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:05 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pants-costume-for-I ... 286.c0.m14

These are adverstised as CS pants, but you can get them in a light "taupe" color also. About the best deal going at the moment.

raider 57 · Post by **raider 57** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:37 pm

Yeah, I've been thinking about the pants thing lately. No one yet seems to do a spot on repo for these. Let's hope!

http://www.tattersallexclusives.com/products/3

Those above sound good. But how much $ ?

alphared6 · Post by **alphared6** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:17 pm

National Capitol Historical Sales pants, while good in and of themselves, are polyester.

whipcracker · Post by **whipcracker** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:52 am

I thought that Magnoli's pure wool pants were "the ones"? There was a thread with pics earlier this year, or was it last year? Those looked pretty spot on to me...until I see Raiders again...

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:05 am

alphared6 wrote:National Capitol Historical Sales pants, while good in and of themselves, are polyester.

I always wondered about that, but never seemed to get an answer from them regarding my inquiries. Thanks for the info.

alphared6 · Post by **alphared6** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:49 am

binkmeisterRick wrote:
alphared6 wrote:National Capitol Historical Sales pants, while good in and of themselves, are polyester.
I always wondered about that, but never seemed to get an answer from them regarding my inquiries. Thanks for the info.

Peterson is an old friend of mine, he responds to "most" of my Emails.

HowardCarter23 · Post by **HowardCarter23** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:11 pm

I purchased a pair from Wested about a month ago. Although they are not SA, I am very happy with them after having them hemmed and opened up a tad in the waist...very comfy cotton twill. I ordered my waist size, but they were a little tight. They are obviously made of quality material, however, and they look and feel the part to Me. It annoyed me a little that Wested has on their website:

"As seen worn by Harrison Ford as 'Indiana Jones'
These authentic reproductions..."

Granted, other companies sell "licensed" and "official" merchandise, but we usually give them a grain of salt.

I just thought it was a little misleading, considering Wested was responsible for the Raiders jacket, you think "oh, these must be EXACT"...not.

It wasn't until I read on the forum about the back flaps and the number of loops and the color, but I figured there were a large improvement to the LL Bean pants I tried. lol

So, it's what you can afford and what looks/feels good on you.

Regards, HowardCarter23

Soup · Post by **Soup** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:45 pm

This is a much debated topic, trying to get pants that are the "ones". I recently bought Magnolia's cotton/wool blend in Dark Khaki. Their work is first class, for me just what I was looking for.

Good luck in your search, just remember, if you look long and hard at anything long enough, all things will eventually have flaws. Be happy that so many different options are out there.

Regards,

Soup

Greatdane · Post by **Greatdane** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:07 pm

I've seen pictures of the Dark Khaki, and sometimes it looks great and sometimes it looks bad. I'm starting to lean more towards the Golden Rod color. To me it looks like it's got the little bit of pink in it compared to the Dark Khaki.

I wouldn't be surprised if I end up with a Dark Khaki as well in the end. Maybe I should just order both

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:30 pm

I like my Noel Howard pants best, but that just isn't an easy option anymore. If you're looking for pants that are still being made now, I find that you have to prioritize what's more important to you; color, cut/design, and/or fabric.
Color; Wested is probably closest right now.
Cut/Design; Magnoli (or somebody else who does full custom work), and be very specific about changes if you want any.
Fabric; The 100% wool fabric can be had from Magnoli or Wested.

If fabric is low on your priority list, it adds choices to the consideration. Magnoli's blend is good for breathability, LL Bean has a taupe color microfiber that drapes great, and cotton can be had in many places and in many colors.

Greatdane · Post by **Greatdane** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:02 pm

If only wested would use the right cut huh?

It is mostly the color for me, but of course I'd like the right pattern as well. So I thought about either getting a pair of wested and then get a tailor to fix the pocket flaps, or getting a pair of Magnoli's in a color that closely resembles Wested.
The fabric, I don't know if it matters visually, as long as it looks good.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:26 pm

Greatdane wrote: It is mostly the color for me, but of course I'd like the right pattern as well. So I thought about either getting a pair of wested and then get a tailor to fix the pocket flaps, or getting a pair of Magnoli's in a color that closely resembles Wested.
The fabric, I don't know if it matters visually, as long as it looks good.

It's more than just the pockets with Wested. The legs taper slightly at the bottom, which in my opinion ruins the drape. They hug the boot too much.

I don't know if a tailor could fix it or not.

See if Magnoli has something slightly darker than his Dark Khaki. He should.

Greatdane · Post by **Greatdane** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:07 pm

The Camel color is a little bit darker than Dark Khaki, not much but theres a difference. Does anyone have experiences with the Camel color?

Speedster · Post by **Speedster** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:38 am

lantzn wrote:Has anyone here bought these from the Netherlands?

"We have had the heavy weight 100% wool, Officers' 'elastique' fabric (alternatively known as 'Cavalry Twill' to many) made to the exact wartime spec, which is just superb. The average weight per pair is 2lb. The drape, handle and colour of this cloth is indistinguishable from the original."
http://www.tattersallexclusives.com/products/3

or how about these guys? They sale on eBay.
http://www.nchsinc.com/NCHSHome.html

Tattersall exclusives gets their stuff from Eastman Leather Clothing in the UK. Why not buy from them: http://www.eastmanleather.com/

Their USAAF Officers "pinks" trousers are here (GBP 99.99): http://www.shopcreator.com/mall/eastman ... 757387.stm

Regards
Speedster

Nevada Jones · Post by **Nevada Jones** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:05 am

Speedster wrote:
lantzn wrote:Has anyone here bought these from the Netherlands?

"We have had the heavy weight 100% wool, Officers' 'elastique' fabric (alternatively known as 'Cavalry Twill' to many) made to the exact wartime spec, which is just superb. The average weight per pair is 2lb. The drape, handle and colour of this cloth is indistinguishable from the original."
http://www.tattersallexclusives.com/products/3

or how about these guys? They sale on eBay.
http://www.nchsinc.com/NCHSHome.html
Tattersall exclusives gets their stuff from Eastman Leather Clothing in the UK. Why not buy from them: http://www.eastmanleather.com/

Their USAAF Officers "pinks" trousers are here (GBP 99.99): http://www.shopcreator.com/mall/eastman ... 757387.stm

Regards
Speedster

So, anyone actually have a pair? I have both Wested's and Magnoli's and was not impressed with either. I'd like to hear opinions before making yet another leap.

TheExit148 · Post by **TheExit148** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:17 am

I still think getting a pair of Pinks on the cheap (used off ebay) is the best route if you going for "close enough" and depending on the colour, they are the best. The only problem with some of them, is the HUGE crotch. Again this could probably be fixed by a skilled tailor. I think Magnoli has the best fit and pattern, but I'm not sure on the colour. I'm sure he's still working on it, since he is always updating his products. There was a previous member here who was working on a replica pair of the Raiders pants that looked really good, but he is no longer here I believe.

Risu · Post by **Risu** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:38 am

Does anybody know if the bottom of the legs on the Wested pants get bigger as the waist size increases? Maybe we could order a pair of enormous Wested pants and have a tailor take in everything BUT the legs?

Nevada Jones · Post by **Nevada Jones** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:46 am

Risu wrote:Does anybody know if the bottom of the legs on the Wested pants get bigger as the waist size increases? Maybe we could order a pair of enormous Wested pants and have a tailor take in everything BUT the legs?

Good point Risu. My Wested's tapered quite a bit, and even after tailoring were not right. I thought of ordering up a size as well. Plus, is it it me or is the waist not very high? Low rise Indy pants for the new generation??

Scott63 · Post by **Scott63** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:12 am

Does anyone have a pair of "pinks" from this company?

http://www.wwiiimpressions.com/usarmydress.html

About halfway down the page - “Trousers, Dress, Officer's Regulation” - suppose to be 100% wool elastique. Probably not pleated, but the color and cut looks good in the photo.

Scott

Risu · Post by **Risu** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:30 am

Ford wore his pants low in Raiders. It's not period accurate, just real world accurate for the time. The real question is, if they made Raiders today, would his pants be around his knees?

Alkali Jones · Post by **Alkali Jones** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:00 am

Hey All,

Just a word gentlemen. Indy's pants must taper. They must. If you go from a thirty-six (or thirty-four) inch diameter hole, (the waist) down to two eighteen inch diameter holes, (the leg openings) the legs taper. The problem here is that we are all (almost all, anyway) built differently from HF. We have different size waistes, differrent length legs, different size feet. Some of us are in good shape physically, and some of us are not.

You must view this costuming thing as a ratio. For example, when Indy is standing on the edge of the "Leap from the Lion's head" in Last Crusade, look at how much of his shoes the pants cover. It's about all of the lace placket except the first two laces. Your pants should cover the same amount of shoe reguardless of your foot size. If you have real gunboat feet, well, you'll need a larger hem opening. (Read less taper, not no taper, just less.) If you have petit feet, then you'll want smaller hem openings. (Read lots of taper, because without that taper, your shoes will disappear beneath those pants.)

Looking good in any clothing means fitting them well. Not tight, not loose, not baggy, and certainly not the same size as HF wore (...unless that fits you well

). It must be what fits you correctly. Before you hem your pants, you must be wearing the correct shoes. In this case, you may want to open or close up the opening to reveal the right amount of shoe. This will also look best, even if it's not HF's original size. Even if it tapers more than this "screen cap" or that "reference photo".

The pants that Wested, Platon, and Magnoli sell are not wrong because of the taper in the legs. They are wrong because the details around the waist are not properly represented. The wrong pocket this and the wrong number of that, bad spacing between those, etc. When they get that stuff right, well, then, they'll be right. (Except the possible lack of a change pocket!

)

Oh, and if you buy a really big pair of Wested's and try to have a tailor fix them, well, it probably won't turn out to well. As pants get bigger, so do their features. Longer fly placket, larger pockets, maybe even deeper pleats. These things can't just be "taken in" and all is well. They'll have to go back to pattern and recut them out to fit you. This can be done, but it'll cost you. And it still won't be right, because the bound pocket (back pocket) will already be cut, and it'll be too wide but the tailor won't be able to just "sew it shorter"!

This is why someone should change their pattern after having the correct pattern in their possesion for a breif but meaningful stay. And I didn't say Wested. Well anyway, sorry about the rant. Having done costumes all of my life, sometimes I get just a bit flustered. Maybe I'll do a new topic and list all the "Raiders" pants details just to vent a little. We'll see. 'Nough said.

Dan S

enigmata_wood · Post by **enigmata_wood** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:47 am

I'm working on a budget pair idea. starting with white heavy cotton chinos from a seconds shop. I bought them extra long so I could use the offcut hem to make the flap pockets. That worked well. using Dylon machine dyes I dyed them a slightly washed out terracotta for the pink shade. next I'm redying them a full strength 'stone grey' colour. to get the grey component. If it works I'll post the results. estimated price: £ 25!

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:31 am

I am curious that if Wested had most of the NH stuff - wouldn't Peter have taken patterns from the NH pants? Theoretically he could reproduce a version of the NH Indy pants in the same type of wool as the NH pants were.....maybe?

WinstonWolf359 · Post by **WinstonWolf359** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:05 pm

I recall reading Wested did make patterns (or at least took a lot of notes) on all the Noel Howard gear when they had it. It just wasn't a priority for them to make the corrections to their shirt and pant offerings. I'm guessing they have plenty of current stock to sell first.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:20 am

HowardCarter23 wrote:I purchased a pair from Wested about a month ago. ...very comfy cotton twill. ..................

Regards, HowardCarter23

are you sure they are cotton? I thought the material they use is wool calvalry twill

enigmata_wood · Post by **enigmata_wood** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:35 am

indygr · Post by **indygr** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:03 am

NH=Noel Howard

He was one of the costumiers who worked partly for the designing of the Raiders costume and fully in the ToD and LC movies.

Wested indeed had in their possession the original costumes when Noel Howard passed away and they took a lot of notes about the patterns.

Indygr

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:49 pm

RCSignals wrote:
HowardCarter23 wrote:I purchased a pair from Wested about a month ago. ...very comfy cotton twill. ..................

Regards, HowardCarter23
are you sure they are cotton? I thought the material they use is wool calvalry twill

That's right. The pants are wool cavalry twill.

BroadSword · Post by **BroadSword** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:25 pm

FYI. I contacted Jerry Lee at WPG and asked if he had any reject or return repro "Pinks". He actually had the test pair still and let me buy those for $70. I have had a set of original pinks for the last year, but they've always been a bit short. I should be getting the repro WPG trousers soon and I'll post up pictures if anyone is interested. Luckily they are 36's and I wear 33-34 so my wife may be able to "install" some pleats to get them a little closter. I've been real stingy about buying new Wested or Magnoli trousers simply because I want to beat the snot out of my gear and I can't bring myself to buy brand new 100+ dollar pants or further destroy any originals.

I'll report back!

HowardCarter23 · Post by **HowardCarter23** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:06 pm

Yes, Cavalry Twill

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:28 am

Chewbacca Jones wrote:
RCSignals wrote:
HowardCarter23 wrote:I purchased a pair from Wested about a month ago. ...very comfy cotton twill. ..................

Regards, HowardCarter23
are you sure they are cotton? I thought the material they use is wool calvalry twill
That's right. The pants are wool cavalry twill.

Mine had a "100% cotton" label in them as well, but after scrutinizing them and even a burn test on a leftover piece from hemming I am 100% certain that those labels are 100% wrong and it is actually wool, not cotton.

Regards, Geert

BroadSword · Post by **BroadSword** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:24 pm

WPG pants came. Now these are were the test model as Jerry explained it, so I don't what the differences would be between these and the production models. These are size 36 and I wear 33-34 so the fit is a bit baggy, but you get the picture:

Direct Sunlight:

TonyRush · Post by **TonyRush** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:04 pm

My three brain cells aren't working together tonight...

WPG stands for.... ?

BTW, I wouldn't worry much about the extra room in the crotch. If you look at Indy's pants in various photos, they're cut pretty roomy as well.

Tony

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:09 pm

WPG= What Price Glory

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:20 pm

Last time I heard, Todd was hoping to produce some.

Risu · Post by **Risu** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:38 am

I've been looking forward to Todd's pants for months.

Indy's pants are baggy, but not that baggy. If you take them in a bit/add the pleats they should fit fine. Nice drape on the boots.

BroadSword · Post by **BroadSword** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:45 pm

Risu wrote:I've been looking forward to Todd's pants for months.

Indy's pants are baggy, but not that baggy. If you take them in a bit/add the pleats they should fit fine. Nice drape on the boots.

Correct..these are too baggy, but that is because these are 2 inches too big for me. I got the test trousers he had for $70 vice $125. Should come out ok after alterations. Not sure if the production trousers are the same weight, but these are a beefy set of trousers. I like em...now I need to thrash them!